Tobacco at 21 proposed

[TheProgressivePatriot]

I don't see what's wrong with the traditional rules. My grandfather owned a small retail store back in the day, he had very strict rules about selling cigarettes. A kid definitely had to have a note from his mum before grandpa would sell him a pack of Pell Mell.

All this bullshit is just a bunch of hot air IMhO.

Local lung disease center to rally for Tobacco 21 bill

Was your grandpa qualified to determine if the note was forged!


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[Polishprince]

I don't see what's wrong with the traditional rules. My grandfather owned a small retail store back in the day, he had very strict rules about selling cigarettes. A kid definitely had to have a note from his mum before grandpa would sell him a pack of Pell Mell.

All this bullshit is just a bunch of hot air IMhO.

Local lung disease center to rally for Tobacco 21 bill

Was your grandpa qualified to determine if the note was forged!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

In the days before everyone carrying cards, he was qualified to determine credit worthiness for his customers. I don't think discerning legit notes from the mothers was that difficult in comparison

 

[SandSquid]

Age limits never stopped any kid from obtaining cigarettes and liquor.

Ask any smoker--most start in junior high.

So imposing an age restriction isn't working. How is raising it even higher going to make any difference?

Well it does. The Journal of Studies on Alcohol and Drugs has many studies showing that it does

There was a study by the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety on the drinking age change from 18 in most states, to mandatory 21 federally in 1988.. Among fatally injured drivers ages 16-20, the percentage with positive BACs declined from 61% in 1982 to 31% in 1995, a bigger decline than for older age groups; declines occurred among the ages directly affected by raising MLDAs (ages 18-20) and among young teenagers not directly affected (ages 16-17). Almost all studies designed specifically to gauge the effects of drinking age changes show MLDAs of 21 reduce drinking, problematic drinking, suicide rates, drinking and driving, and alcohol-related crashes among young people.

Another in the Journal of Economic Perspectives put a dollar figure on those changes post MLDA, and figured based on the cost of life for the increased mortality, and taking drinking rates of those in that age group, each drink would cost another $15 to the drinker, and $2.50 to the general public by the increased deaths.

I think stronger enforcement helps. When I was a kid, I can think of more than one time getting busted with alcohol by the police and not getting a ticket but rather a warning. A couple times even allowed to keep what I had. I knew a store where we'd go and he'd ask for ID and if we didn't have it, rather than putting it in the paper bag, he'd put it in his plastic regular grocery bags and charge us an extra couple bucks. I remember he bumped the price he said to pay for his underage selling ticket he got once.

Lastly pushing parents to actually.... parent. I think more holding of parents accountable for kids in the house at least. Not the fine and charges (unless they are there holding the party or buying the alcohol), but forcing them to go through the classes and community service too.

That said I also agree with the "if you are old enough to serve, you are old enough to drink and smoke".

 

[SandSquid]

Age limits never stopped any kid from obtaining cigarettes and liquor.

Ask any smoker--most start in junior high.

So imposing an age restriction isn't working. How is raising it even higher going to make any difference?

It is interesting seeing the logic of this argument and makes me wonder if partisanship drives that logic, or if the logic is sound. Just for example:

Some say imposing a higher smoking/drinking age hasn't worked, so making it higher yet is not going to, and they will find a way to get alcohol anyways.

Some say imposing more border walls hasn't worked. so making more walls will not make any difference, and they will find a way to get past anyways.

Two stories where the logic behind the reasoning is identical. But some people clamp on one and hate the other because of the situation, not the logic behind the attempt.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

There was a study by the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety on the drinking age change from 18 in most states, to mandatory 21 federally in 1988.. Among fatally injured drivers ages 16-20, the percentage with positive BACs declined from 61% in 1982 to 31% in 1995, a bigger decline than for older age groups; declines occurred among the ages directly affected by raising MLDAs (ages 18-20) and among young teenagers not directly affected (ages 16-17). Almost all studies designed specifically to gauge the effects of drinking age changes show MLDAs of 21 reduce drinking, problematic drinking, suicide rates, drinking and driving, and alcohol-related crashes among young people.

And yet, most of Europe, who doesn't implement as many alcohol restrictions on teenagers and young adults, doesn't have this same problem.

In any case, we're talking about tobacco use, not alcohol. Nobody is going to plow their vehicle into a family of four because of nicotine abuse.

 

[SandSquid]

There was a study by the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety on the drinking age change from 18 in most states, to mandatory 21 federally in 1988.. Among fatally injured drivers ages 16-20, the percentage with positive BACs declined from 61% in 1982 to 31% in 1995, a bigger decline than for older age groups; declines occurred among the ages directly affected by raising MLDAs (ages 18-20) and among young teenagers not directly affected (ages 16-17). Almost all studies designed specifically to gauge the effects of drinking age changes show MLDAs of 21 reduce drinking, problematic drinking, suicide rates, drinking and driving, and alcohol-related crashes among young people.

And yet, most of Europe, who doesn't implement as many alcohol restrictions on teenagers and young adults, doesn't have this same problem.

In any case, we're talking about tobacco use, not alcohol. Nobody is going to plow their vehicle into a family of four because of nicotine abuse.

Actually according to the world health organization European countries have a higher levels of teen drinking with lower age limits.

Now I could see where there DUI accidents are lower, as the amount of driving may be different but that isn't something that would affect the US.

As for tobacco I guess it depends. There's almost half a million Americans every year that die from smoking.

 

[Polishprince]

There's almost half a million Americans every year that die from smoking.

That's what they say- researchers attribute a pretty large number of cancer and heart disease deaths to smoking.

However, VERY FEW of those deaths are of people between 18 and 20.