The West negotiates, Arabs plot

[Mojo2]

It’s comically tragic how the world has spent decades placating the “Palestinian” arab killers. While the West makes futile attempts at negotiations, “Palestinian” arab killers are plotting.

It borders on the insane that immigrant Arab/Moslem squatters and welfare cheats in a nonexistent state, with an invented refugee status (complete with their own huge personal UN welfare program) have managed to get what they want through the homicidal terror of islam’s jihad. And of course, they couldn't have done it without the support, tacit and overt, of the terror-enabling useful idiots of Western governments, Arab nations, and media who grant legitimacy to their inveterate hatred of Israel and their murder of Israelis. If Arafat can see this from whatever circle of hell he's in (probably the same one as Muhammad (swish), he must be downright proud.

“Palestinian” arab Terrorism

As Peace Talks Continue, Palestinian Terror Groups Prepare for Jihad :: Gatestone Institute

October 7, 2013

As the U.S.-sponsored peace talks between the Israeli government and the Palestinian Authority continue, Palestinian terror groups are preparing for jihad against Israel.

At the negotiations, the Palestinian Authority representatives are talking about the establishment of a Palestinian state along the pre-1967 lines, namely the West Bank, Gaza Strip and east Jerusalem.

But the voices coming out of the Gaza Strip's various terror groups are talking about preparations to "liberate all Palestine, from the river to the sea."

You've put into words my very own thoughts I'd never thought to conjure.*

* - con·jure (knjr, kn-jr)
v. con·jured, con·jur·ing, con·jures
v.tr.
1.
a. To summon (a devil or spirit) by magical or supernatural power.
b. To influence or effect by or as if by magic: tried to conjure away the doubts that beset her.
2.
a. To call or bring to mind; evoke: "Arizona conjures up an image of stark deserts for most Americans" (American Demographics).

 

[aris2chat]

Your talking about minimally two groups, speaking minimally two different languages (and I don't mean spoken language), minimally two different goals and they are all to some degree "WRONG".

The only thing they do have in common is the suffering and fatigue of bloodshed they share.

If it was about the survival of either or both states, there might be some ground. Extremists on either side fear any compromise would mean their total destruction. Land, water, refugees, borders, settlements, even economy are scape goats in this mess.
Land they could negotiate square inch by square inch and reach some understanding. Water can be pumped, purified, recycled, produced and reused if they both worked together.
Abbas has already conceded that the refugees, in total, would not go back to Israel, visit but not to live. Some will be allowed to reunite families, but most will live in the WB or G. Some Jews living in the WB now might choose to stay and live as Palestinians helping to develop the country.
Borders is more a matter of security rather than leaving one side stuck in a bowl that would make them easy targets.
Unrealistic promises were made, hardline demands have been publicly set in stone. To concede would mean political suicide for the politicians and the destruction of a state for one or the other if all the factions are not on board.
Take all the trapping of identity away and they are just two different people that need to work together to make the land grow so that both can survive. The past is the boulder around their necks that will drowned them.
Palestine needs land for housing, farming and industry. There is enough, but not developed and needs nourishing. Rocks can be smashed and soil plowed, fertilized and watered. Hill tops can be developed for new cities and infrastructure laid out, Eco cities of the future are already in progress in the WB.
They are arguing about this well and that tree instead of what is best for both to live in peace. Water from a fouled well will make both sick, where as together they can pump and purify the water so that both will be health and still grow food enough for them and more. An olive tree removed from this spot, together they can plant a new olive tree along with a whole orchard of fruits that will provide for them both year round for many years to come while the new olive tree is nurtured for the next generation to share in peace.
Both sides need to stop trying to turn back the hands of time and learn to live in the now and future, together.
Holy sites? What is more holy than living in peace and prosperity? Being charitable to others? Loving thy neighbor? Sitting together and sharing meals and friendship? Tear the @# things down and build temples to life, joy, love and peace they can both worship in....... or just pray (stand on their head, dance, sing, etc.) out in the open where no one is hidden from God (by what ever name).
What could be more divine in the eyes of god than peace.

 

[Hollie]

Israel was Established by violent Terrorists
palwatch.org is the blog of one person, Ilan Mazuz

Israel was established by the UN.


So how cult-like is it that Islamic terrorists define heroes as those who commit suicide in the process of mass murder which they define as a holy act?

The UN doesn't have the authority to create states and nations. UN Resolution 181 was a study in corruption, intimidation, threats and bribery.

It's so weird it involved jews and zionists...

As the UN actually did create the State of Israel, it seems your "because I say so" babbling is more pointless noise.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Israel was established by the UN.


So how cult-like is it that Islamic terrorists define heroes as those who commit suicide in the process of mass murder which they define as a holy act?

The UN doesn't have the authority to create states and nations. UN Resolution 181 was a study in corruption, intimidation, threats and bribery.

It's so weird it involved jews and zionists...

As the UN actually did create the State of Israel, it seems your "because I say so" babbling is more pointless noise.

Link?

The UN had nothing to do with the creation of Israel.

 

[Hollie]

Your talking about minimally two groups, speaking minimally two different languages (and I don't mean spoken language), minimally two different goals and they are all to some degree "WRONG".

The only thing they do have in common is the suffering and fatigue of bloodshed they share.

If it was about the survival of either or both states, there might be some ground. Extremists on either side fear any compromise would mean their total destruction. Land, water, refugees, borders, settlements, even economy are scape goats in this mess.
Land they could negotiate square inch by square inch and reach some understanding. Water can be pumped, purified, recycled, produced and reused if they both worked together.
Abbas has already conceded that the refugees, in total, would not go back to Israel, visit but not to live. Some will be allowed to reunite families, but most will live in the WB or G. Some Jews living in the WB now might choose to stay and live as Palestinians helping to develop the country.
Borders is more a matter of security rather than leaving one side stuck in a bowl that would make them easy targets.
Unrealistic promises were made, hardline demands have been publicly set in stone. To concede would mean political suicide for the politicians and the destruction of a state for one or the other if all the factions are not on board.
Take all the trapping of identity away and they are just two different people that need to work together to make the land grow so that both can survive. The past is the boulder around their necks that will drowned them.
Palestine needs land for housing, farming and industry. There is enough, but not developed and needs nourishing. Rocks can be smashed and soil plowed, fertilized and watered. Hill tops can be developed for new cities and infrastructure laid out, Eco cities of the future are already in progress in the WB.
They are arguing about this well and that tree instead of what is best for both to live in peace. Water from a fouled well will make both sick, where as together they can pump and purify the water so that both will be health and still grow food enough for them and more. An olive tree removed from this spot, together they can plant a new olive tree along with a whole orchard of fruits that will provide for them both year round for many years to come while the new olive tree is nurtured for the next generation to share in peace.
Both sides need to stop trying to turn back the hands of time and learn to live in the now and future, together.
Holy sites? What is more holy than living in peace and prosperity? Being charitable to others? Loving thy neighbor? Sitting together and sharing meals and friendship? Tear the @# things down and build temples to life, joy, love and peace they can both worship in....... or just pray (stand on their head, dance, sing, etc.) out in the open where no one is hidden from God (by what ever name).
What could be more divine in the eyes of god than peace.

A thoughtful post. There is one statement in particular, aris2chat,that is tragically wrong, however: ”Take all the trapping of identity away and they are just two different people that need to work together to make the land grow so that both can survive.”

The impediment for any accommodation on the part of islamist belligerents is islamist ideology.

What speaks with utmost clarity regarding islamist ideology are islam’s primary ideologues.

Iran's former theocratic Dark Ager and supreme leader, Ayatollah Khomeini, was not one to mince words. He was unashamed of the belligerent tenets of his faith, and he was unafraid of voicing them, even if his Western admirers sought to coat his hateful rhetoric with apologetics. In response to the Islamic apologists and taqiyya-gushing Moslems in the West, Khomenei had this to say:

Historical Quotes On Islam

Islam makes it incumbent on all adult males, provided they are not disabled or incapacitated, to prepare themselves for the conquest of countries so that the writ of Islam is obeyed in every country in the world.

But those who study Islamic Holy War will understand why Islam wants to conquer the whole world... Those who know nothing of Islam pretend that Islam counsels against war. Those [who say this] are witless. Islam says: Kill all the unbelievers just as they would kill you all! Does this mean that Muslims should sit back until they are devoured by [the unbelievers]? Islam says: Kill them, put them to the sword and scatter [their armies]…. Islam says: Whatever good there is exists thanks to the sword and in the shadow of the sword! People cannot be made obedient except with the sword! The sword is the key to Paradise, which can be opened only for the Holy Warriors! There are hundreds of other [Qur'anic] psalms and hadiths urging Muslims to value war and to fight. Does all this mean that Islam is a religion that prevents men from waging war? I spit upon those foolish souls who make such a claim.

Lovely, lovely man. And a lovely, lovely Death Cult.

There's not much room in the above for negotiation or compromise.

Iran (with reference other totalitarian islamist nations), is currently among the most brutal and repressive totalitarian states in existence, thanks to the rule of law being in the form of the literal interpretation of a poorly written, archaic, violent, weird, barbaric, and intolerant hate manual which passes as a holy book.


I'm happy that my nation supports Israel. Outside of the practical benefits of this friendship, it is only right to appreciate our mutual affinity with Israelis. They are the only free and democratic people in a brutal and backward part of the world. They are a lone voice in the islamist Middle Eastern wilderness with which we share common goals and values, while virtually all of Israels’ neighbors fan the fires of their America hatred with all the money we throw at them.

 

[Mojo2]

Why My Fellow Liberals Should Support Israel in Her Conflict with Hamas


As an American liberal who loves Israel because I'm a liberal, I've been disturbed by the recent diminishing trend of American progressive support for the Jewish state in its decades-long conflict with its increasingly hostile neighbors.

A recent CNN/ORC poll concerning the Gaza conflict intensified my anxiety: While a plurality of self-identified liberals and Democrats support Israel's right of self-defense in taking military action against Hamas, Democrats were three times more likely than Republicans to believe that the Jewish State is "not justified" in its targeted bombing campaign.

The roots of liberal sympathy for the radical, fundamentalist, brutal Hamas regime are as complex as they are troubling. We liberals love the underdog, and a media that rewards conflict over context has helped promote the perverse notion that the tiny nation with the Star of David on its flag is really the Goliath in the popular Biblical metaphor. This problem was exacerbated in Campaign 2012 when my fellow progressives watched a coterie of unlikeable, right-wing GOP presidential hopefuls proclaim their uber-passionate support for the Jewish State and try to use it as a political wedge against our beloved progressive President.

But amidst the shouting and finger-pointing, the fundamental reason behind the decline of American progressive support for Israel relates to a profound misunderstanding of the facts on the ground. When confronted with an accurate accounting of the differences between the two sides in the conflict, a true liberal must be compelled to embrace the Zionist cause.

Here are but a few examples:

Israel Values Human Life; Hamas Does Not

There's no moral value more important to American liberals than the preciousness of human life, particularly the lives of those in our society who are most vulnerable: As Hubert Humphrey elegantly framed the liberal credo, "The moral test of government is how it treats those who are in the dawn of life, the children; those who are in the twilight of life, the aged; and those who are in the shadows of life -- the sick, the needy and the handicapped."

Israel's current intervention in Gaza is a living example of this principle. Understanding that any military action would provoke its international enemies, Israel simply could no longer tolerate the danger posed to its citizens -- Jews and Arabs -- by the many months of unprovoked bombing of civilian targets in Southern Israel by Hamas militants.

Accordingly, Israel has engaged in a painstakingly-measured, precisely-targeted bombing campaign, using the most modern technology to carefully dismantle military targets and avoid civilian casualties. On Monday, for example, the Israeli Defense Forces (IDF) used pinpoint accuracy to destroy the second floor of a Gaza City office building, killing only the Islamic Jihad military leaders who had been responsible for training terrorists, planning attacks on Israeli civilians and manufacturing weapons.

Outgoing rockets from #Gaza City moments ago

twitter.com/andersoncooper...

— Anderson Cooper (@andersoncooper) November 19, 2012

Of course, there has been -- and will continue to be -- significant collateral damage; innocent Palestinians -- very, very regretfully -- have been killed in the bombing campaign. But their blood lies entirely in the hands of their Hamas leaders. As the picture above taken by CNN's Anderson Cooper dramatically illustrates, Hamas has embedded its offensive military weaponry within highly populated civilian areas, with the complete knowledge -- and indeed, desired intent -- of provoking the IDF to unintentionally kill innocent Palestinians. Hamas' use of human shields -- its deliberate placement of innocent civilians near combat targets to either deter Israel from attacking those targets or to provoke international sympathy for mounting civilian death tolls -- is an indisputable war crime, a clear violation of the Geneva Convention.

Furthermore, Hamas leaders have actually been daring Israel to launch a ground campaign that would necessarily lead to a significant increase in loss of life on both sides, especially among Palestinian civilians. Hamas' leader, Khaled Meshal, suggested Monday that the Israeli mobilization on the Gaza border was a bluff, and insisted that Hamas would not cease its bombing campaign unless Israel ended its military blockade -- a condition it knows the Israeli government will never accept because that would mean more offensive weapons could be brought into Gaza, dramatically exacerbating the military threat against Israeli civilians.

Jonathan_Miller: Why My Fellow Liberals Should Support Israel in Her Conflict with Hamas

 

[Lipush]

Is this a joke thread?

Your spam is the joke.

We're all a joke since we take this guy seriously.

 

[Alfalfa]

Is this a joke thread?

Your spam is the joke.

We're all a joke since we take this guy seriously.

Thank you.

 

[Alfalfa]

That article was one of the biggest floaters I ever read.

 

[aris2chat]

The quote is attributed to Khomeini, in Holy Terror: Inside the World of Islamic Terrorism (1987) by Amir Taheri, and even that is disputed as a mistranslation.

Muslims or arabs are not born to kill jews. Hate is taught, jihadists are brainwashed to believe the rhetoric spouted.
It is the misdirection and disinformation that are a major obstacles, not settlement. That too is misinformation. Israel is not building new settlement and even turning over land from some east of the wall to the PA.
Truth is the hidden treasure that both sides must search for.

 

[Billo_Really]

I didn't expect you to actually offer a comment addressing the salient points

Why would you expect that, when you won't do that for others?

- it's just easier for those like you to do a drive by spam and slither away.

That's what you do in my threads!

 

[Hollie]

I didn't expect you to actually offer a comment addressing the salient points

Why would you expect that, when you won't do that for others?

- it's just easier for those like you to do a drive by spam and slither away.

That's what you do in my threads!

Attention seeking?

 

[Billo_Really]

Attention seeking?

Just stating a fact.

You're a hypocrite!

 

[Hollie]

Attention seeking?

Just stating a fact.

You're a hypocrite!

Stalker.

 

[Alfalfa]

The UN doesn't have the authority to create states and nations. UN Resolution 181 was a study in corruption, intimidation, threats and bribery.

It's so weird it involved jews and zionists...

As the UN actually did create the State of Israel, it seems your "because I say so" babbling is more pointless noise.

Link?

The UN had nothing to do with the creation of Israel.

This is one of a small group of premise fabrications and lies (along with others such as israel owns the land because god gave it to them, palestine doesn't exist as a nation or people, etc.) that establish the basic foundation of zionist hasbara.

You can't be a real jew unless you believe them all.

 

[Hollie]

The quote is attributed to Khomeini, in Holy Terror: Inside the World of Islamic Terrorism (1987) by Amir Taheri, and even that is disputed as a mistranslation.

Muslims or arabs are not born to kill jews. Hate is taught, jihadists are brainwashed to believe the rhetoric spouted.
It is the misdirection and disinformation that are a major obstacles, not settlement. That too is misinformation. Israel is not building new settlement and even turning over land from some east of the wall to the PA.
Truth is the hidden treasure that both sides must search for.

I agree that hate is taught. It’s one of the really horrible circumstances that afflicts so much of the islamist Middle East. In so many parts of the Islamist Middle East, women are stoned to death, hanged or even murdered by family members to preserve the family “honor” for fornication, even if they are teenage girls. Bloggers are arrested and tortured for any departure from the regime's ideology. People are lashed to within an inch of their lives, or all the way, for the most absurd of offenses, if the mullahs feel that God has been affronted. Just imagine if the United States was governed by the book of Leviticus. That's what Iran and Saudi Arabia are like.

In connection with the comments attributed to Khomeini, I cant say with certainty it is accurate or not. However, actions speak with the utmost clarity.

The Islamic leaders in Iran, not to mention pious Muslims worldwide, are crystal clear on what Islam's mission and goals are. Why aren't we? Are we so complacent in the assumption that everyone must respect the rule of law, equality, plurality, and other benefits of liberal democracy, that we are unable to conceive of entire cultures holding such concepts in utter contempt? Because the teachings of the koran, the sunnah, and sharia law are absolutely hostile to our way of life, and jihad is the primary tool employed by Islam to handle such a clash. It always has been that way since Muhammad (swish) came up with this madman's vision of a religion fourteen centuries ago: in Iran, Syria, Israel, Egypt, Algeria, Morocco, Cyprus, Constantinople, Spain, Bosnia, the Caucasus, India, and anywhere else Islam's expansion met with resistance from the native population, the jihad mowed them down, enslaved their women and children, and subdued their lands in the name of Allah.