PoliticalChic
Diamond Member
So....when I OP'd that FDR made a huge mistake in recognizing the USSR in return for promises....my pal posted "... both countries ignored the agreements or misconstrued them according to their purposes..."
The comparison is like, one guy accidentally stepped on the toe of another....so the second guy killed the first.
Perhaps this will add perspective:
Were FDR's action vis-a-vis the USSR those of a rational man?
Or, if they appear irrational, is there an explanation for them?
1. FDR came into office March 4th of 1933. One of his first official acts was to recognize the USSR, November 16th, 1933.
2.. If this act, based on FDR's additional pro-Soviet endeavors, was rational....then these folks must have been irrational: "Four Presidents and their six Secretaries of State for over a decade and a half held to this resolve," i.e., refusal to recognize the Soviet government.
That was written by Herbert Hoover, one of those four Presidents. He wrote it in his "Freedom Betrayed: Herbert Hoover's Secret History of the Second World War and Its Aftermath," edited by George H. Nash, published posthumously, obviously, in 2011, pg 24-29.
3. Well, one might say, why didn't the previous President's agree prior to FDR...and what made him change US policy?
a. "On December 6, 1917, the U.S. Government broke off diplomatic relations with Russia, shortly after the Bolshevik Party seized power from the Tsarist regime after the October Revolution. President Woodrow Wilson decided to withhold recognition at that time because the new Bolshevik government had refused to honor prior debts to the United States incurred by the Tsarist government, ignored pre-existing treaty agreements with other nations, and seized American property in Russia following the October Revolution. The Bolsheviks had also concluded a separate peace with Germany at Brest-Litovsk in March 1918, ending Russian involvement in World War I." Office of the Historian - Milestones - 1921-1936 - Recognition of the Soviet Union, 1933
b. Roosevelt hoped that recognition of the Soviet Union would serve U.S. strategic interests by limiting Japanese expansionism in Asia,...Ibid.
4. What were the considerations, the facts, at the time? Maybe FDR didn't know what savages the Communists were?
Nah...
Bear in mind, eight months earlier, journalist Gareth Jones had exposed Stalin's Terror Famine: "In the train a Communist denied to me that there was a famine. I flung a crust of bread which I had been eating from my own supply into a spittoon. A peasant fellow-passenger fished it out and ravenously ate it." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gareth_Jones_(journalist)
a. Then there was Malcolm Muggeridge, who "was the first writer to reveal the true nature of Stalin s regime when in 1933 he exposed the terror famine in the Ukraine. " [ame=http://www.amazon.com/Time-Eternity-Uncollected-Writings-Muggeridge/dp/1570759057]Time and Eternity: The Uncollected Writings of Malcolm Muggeridge: Malcolm Muggeridge, Nicholas Flynn: 9781570759055: Amazon.com: Books[/ame]
Think Roosevelt knew?
[Kind of reminds of a current President who viewed the demise of the savages called the Muslim Brotherhood...and clamps down on the one force stopping the savagery. And, both Democrats]
5. Roosevelt signed the recognition agreement: Litvinov "returned to the Soviet embassy.....all smiles....and said 'Well, it's all in the bag; we have it.'"
On September 23, 1939, Dr. D. H. Dombrowsky testified to this before the Dies committee. The Winona Republican-Herald ? 20 October 1947 ? Page 12 - Newspapers.com
a. Now pay attemtion to the promises of the USSR to Roosevelt:
The agreement that Litvinov signed promised "To respect scrupulously the indisputable right of the United States to order its own life within its own jurisdiction in its own way and to refrain from interfering in any manner in the internal affairs of the United States, its territories or possessions.... in particular, from any act tending to incite or encourage armed intervention, or any agitation or propaganda having as an aim, the violation of the territorial integrity of the United States, its territories or possessions, or the bringing about by force of a change in the political or social order of the whole or any part of the United States, its territories or possessions.... Not to permit the formation or residence on its territory of any organization or group--and to prevent the activity on its territory of any organization or group, or of representatives or officials of any organization or group--which makes claim to be the Government of,... prevent the activity on its territory of any organization or group, or of representatives or officials of any organization or group--which has as an aim the overthrow or the preparation for the overthrow of, or the bringing about by force of a change in, the political or social order of the whole or any part of the United States,...etc."
Roosevelt-Litvinov
Get it? They promised no espionage, no CPUSA....
b.And,... "FDR had knowledge of two glaring examples of communist conspiracy specifically directed against the United States." Hoover, Op. Cit.
Yeah....FDR knew.
Was he a moron?
Why would he trust the Soviets?
Why do so many refuse to question, much less critique this megalomaniac (I'm talking about FDR, not the current megalomaniac)?
Based on the revealed spies that Stalin had in the Roosevelt and Truman administrations....and what FDR knew...were Roosevelt's acts rational?
In the best interests of the United States?
The comparison is like, one guy accidentally stepped on the toe of another....so the second guy killed the first.
Perhaps this will add perspective:
Were FDR's action vis-a-vis the USSR those of a rational man?
Or, if they appear irrational, is there an explanation for them?
1. FDR came into office March 4th of 1933. One of his first official acts was to recognize the USSR, November 16th, 1933.
2.. If this act, based on FDR's additional pro-Soviet endeavors, was rational....then these folks must have been irrational: "Four Presidents and their six Secretaries of State for over a decade and a half held to this resolve," i.e., refusal to recognize the Soviet government.
That was written by Herbert Hoover, one of those four Presidents. He wrote it in his "Freedom Betrayed: Herbert Hoover's Secret History of the Second World War and Its Aftermath," edited by George H. Nash, published posthumously, obviously, in 2011, pg 24-29.
3. Well, one might say, why didn't the previous President's agree prior to FDR...and what made him change US policy?
a. "On December 6, 1917, the U.S. Government broke off diplomatic relations with Russia, shortly after the Bolshevik Party seized power from the Tsarist regime after the October Revolution. President Woodrow Wilson decided to withhold recognition at that time because the new Bolshevik government had refused to honor prior debts to the United States incurred by the Tsarist government, ignored pre-existing treaty agreements with other nations, and seized American property in Russia following the October Revolution. The Bolsheviks had also concluded a separate peace with Germany at Brest-Litovsk in March 1918, ending Russian involvement in World War I." Office of the Historian - Milestones - 1921-1936 - Recognition of the Soviet Union, 1933
b. Roosevelt hoped that recognition of the Soviet Union would serve U.S. strategic interests by limiting Japanese expansionism in Asia,...Ibid.
4. What were the considerations, the facts, at the time? Maybe FDR didn't know what savages the Communists were?
Nah...
Bear in mind, eight months earlier, journalist Gareth Jones had exposed Stalin's Terror Famine: "In the train a Communist denied to me that there was a famine. I flung a crust of bread which I had been eating from my own supply into a spittoon. A peasant fellow-passenger fished it out and ravenously ate it." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gareth_Jones_(journalist)
a. Then there was Malcolm Muggeridge, who "was the first writer to reveal the true nature of Stalin s regime when in 1933 he exposed the terror famine in the Ukraine. " [ame=http://www.amazon.com/Time-Eternity-Uncollected-Writings-Muggeridge/dp/1570759057]Time and Eternity: The Uncollected Writings of Malcolm Muggeridge: Malcolm Muggeridge, Nicholas Flynn: 9781570759055: Amazon.com: Books[/ame]
Think Roosevelt knew?
[Kind of reminds of a current President who viewed the demise of the savages called the Muslim Brotherhood...and clamps down on the one force stopping the savagery. And, both Democrats]
5. Roosevelt signed the recognition agreement: Litvinov "returned to the Soviet embassy.....all smiles....and said 'Well, it's all in the bag; we have it.'"
On September 23, 1939, Dr. D. H. Dombrowsky testified to this before the Dies committee. The Winona Republican-Herald ? 20 October 1947 ? Page 12 - Newspapers.com
a. Now pay attemtion to the promises of the USSR to Roosevelt:
The agreement that Litvinov signed promised "To respect scrupulously the indisputable right of the United States to order its own life within its own jurisdiction in its own way and to refrain from interfering in any manner in the internal affairs of the United States, its territories or possessions.... in particular, from any act tending to incite or encourage armed intervention, or any agitation or propaganda having as an aim, the violation of the territorial integrity of the United States, its territories or possessions, or the bringing about by force of a change in the political or social order of the whole or any part of the United States, its territories or possessions.... Not to permit the formation or residence on its territory of any organization or group--and to prevent the activity on its territory of any organization or group, or of representatives or officials of any organization or group--which makes claim to be the Government of,... prevent the activity on its territory of any organization or group, or of representatives or officials of any organization or group--which has as an aim the overthrow or the preparation for the overthrow of, or the bringing about by force of a change in, the political or social order of the whole or any part of the United States,...etc."
Roosevelt-Litvinov
Get it? They promised no espionage, no CPUSA....
b.And,... "FDR had knowledge of two glaring examples of communist conspiracy specifically directed against the United States." Hoover, Op. Cit.
Yeah....FDR knew.
Was he a moron?
Why would he trust the Soviets?
Why do so many refuse to question, much less critique this megalomaniac (I'm talking about FDR, not the current megalomaniac)?
Based on the revealed spies that Stalin had in the Roosevelt and Truman administrations....and what FDR knew...were Roosevelt's acts rational?
In the best interests of the United States?
