The Right Wing has entered and believed the TWILIGHT ZONE

[musicman]

Viet Nam, for a start.

Got Questions?

Psychoblues

Yeah - I do.

What made the Viet Nam War bogus?

 

[Psychoblues]

So let me get this straight... You are upset that the Republicans refuse to see that we entered Vietnam under false allegations and false pretenses?

Vietnam was over 30+ years ago. And the war was started by Democrats. It was also ended by Democrat cowards in the house who refused to support the treaty we signed and ended up giving southeast asia to the communist killers. Fabulous policy.

Nope, you don't have it straight and I don't have the time or interest to give you all the details. I suggest you do some reading on "Viet Nam". You can Google it and get years of reading. But to summarize it all, I can tell you that "The Viet Nam War" was misunderstood, an American tactical and strategic error and politically disastrous for them and us. Can you dig it?

Psychoblues

 

[KarlMarx]

Nope, you don't have it straight and I don't have the time or interest to give you all the details. I suggest you do some reading on "Viet Nam". You can Google it and get years of reading. But to summarize it all, I can tell you that "The Viet Nam War" was misunderstood, an American tactical and strategic error and politically disastrous for them and us. Can you dig it?

Psychoblues

What I can dig is that, after the Vietnam War ended, the Vietnamese communists tried to export communism to their neighbors and succeeded in the case of Cambodia (remember Pol Pot?). Also, a lot of Vietnamese were "re-educated" by their communist countrymen, many didn't survive.

More people died AFTER the Vietnam war ended that during the entire war.

 

[Psychoblues]

Have you forgotten? Or maybe you just conviently overlooked it. The Viet Nam War was inherited by Democrats from the very Republican Eisenhower Administration. I don't fault you for that, many Americans just don't realize that absolute fact. We didn't enter Viet Nam in 1960, we interjected ourselves in 1954. Do you remember who was president at that time? JFK tried his best to save American face and LBJ continued until his demise the same. Republicans can't get over all that. Democrats trying to save the face of Republican idiocies. What a hoot!!!!!!!!

Psychoblues

As far as the people that died after the war in Viet Nam are concerned, are you more concerned with them or the powers that denied them thier freedom to live? Americans tried in vain to save them. We were ordered to leave by a Republican President as he promised in order to get himself elected. This gets really convoluted. I suggest you read up on all of it and give us your summation of events as you see them.

What I can dig is that, after the Vietnam War ended, the Vietnamese communists tried to export communism to their neighbors and succeeded in the case of Cambodia (remember Pol Pot?). Also, a lot of Vietnamese were "re-educated" by their communist countrymen, many didn't survive.

More people died AFTER the Vietnam war ended that during the entire war.

 

[Democrat4Bush]

Ah yes Psycho let's go back to the good old days of clean honest Democratic rule.

The Clinton years:

The only president ever impeached on grounds of personal malfeasance
- Most number of convictions and guilty pleas by friends and associates*
- Most number of cabinet officials to come under criminal investigation
- Most number of witnesses to flee country or refuse to testify
- Most number of witnesses to die suddenly
- First president sued for sexual harassment.
- First president accused of rape.
- First first lady to come under criminal investigation
- Largest criminal plea agreement in an illegal campaign contribution case
- First president to establish a legal defense fund.
- First president to be held in contempt of court
- Greatest amount of illegal campaign contributions
- Greatest amount of illegal campaign contributions from abroad
- First president disbarred from the US Supreme Court and a state court

The Wonder years

 

[007]

Have you forgotten? Or maybe you just conviently overlooked it. The Viet Nam War was inherited by Democrats from the very Republican Eisenhower Administration. I don't fault you for that, many Americans just don't realize that absolute fact. We didn't enter Viet Nam in 1960, we interjected ourselves in 1954. Do you remember who was president at that time? JFK tried his best to save American face and LBJ continued until his demise the same. Republicans can't get over all that. Democrats trying to save the face of Republican idiocies. What a hoot!!!!!!!!

Psychoblues

As far as the people that died after the war in Viet Nam are concerned, are you more concerned with them or the powers that denied them thier freedom to live? Americans tried in vain to save them. We were ordered to leave by a Republican President as he promised in order to get himself elected. This gets really convoluted. I suggest you read up on all of it and give us your summation of events as you see them.

I just want to know ONE THING... "why do you liberal fuckers so intensely HATE America"?

Well, maybe you can answer one more thing... "so why the fuck do you live here"?

 

[Avatar4321]

Nope, you don't have it straight and I don't have the time or interest to give you all the details. I suggest you do some reading on "Viet Nam". You can Google it and get years of reading. But to summarize it all, I can tell you that "The Viet Nam War" was misunderstood, an American tactical and strategic error and politically disastrous for them and us. Can you dig it?

Psychoblues

There was nothing wrong with Vietname strategically and tactically. Pulling out of Vietnam was the mistake. Leaving millions of people to be killed by communists was the mistake. Letting armchair politicians fight the war rather than the generals and soldiers was teh mistakes.

The fact is you are still living in the fantasy world of the late 60s.

 

[Psychoblues]

There was nothing wrong with Vietname strategically and tactically. Pulling out of Vietnam was the mistake. Leaving millions of people to be killed by communists was the mistake. Letting armchair politicians fight the war rather than the generals and soldiers was teh mistakes.

The fact is you are still living in the fantasy world of the late 60s.

I, like most intelligent Americans, finished fighting the Viet Nam War in 1975 as we rolled up completely and just left. Viet Nam was a lost cause in 1954 as well in 1975, both dates from Republican led Administrations. Some Americans just can't get over the fact that other nations prefer a completely different brand of politics, government and national direction than as "advertised" by the Americans that can afford the advertisements.

We never advertise our sick, homeless and hopeless. We never advertise the atrocities committed by our industries. We never advertise our failures to protect the peoples that we should most respect and embrace. I could cite thousands of examples here but your ability to Google or otherwise search these things out is at least equal to my own. Maybe you just don't care?

I live in no "fantasy" world. I live in America. Throughout the history of America we have stood for high ideals and genuine compassion. We've been tripped up with questions of property ownership, race, gender, birth nationality and religion, etc., but the high ideals of common Americans have always prevailed and ultimately they will in this case.

Why are Republicans so afraid of the rights of people to organize within their work groups or neighborhood groups or Veterans groups or religious groups or even political groups beyond Republicanism? I would suggest the Republicans are at fault on these issues.

You will never sell the idea of freedom and liberty to the WORLD while you so often limit the same. You will never just be able to "kill" your opposition without proving to them your ideology is sound and unselfish. Otherwise, we have perpetual WAR which is what most Americans believed was abolished in WWI and WWII. True Freedom will ring. Americans, in general, understand this and that is why this old Vet keeps on truckin'.

Psychoblues

 

[Hobbit]

I, like most intelligent Americans, finished fighting the Viet Nam War in 1975 as we rolled up completely and just left. Viet Nam was a lost cause in 1954 as well in 1975, both dates from Republican led Administrations. Some Americans just can't get over the fact that other nations prefer a completely different brand of politics, government and national direction than as "advertised" by the Americans that can afford the advertisements.

We never advertise our sick, homeless and hopeless. We never advertise the atrocities committed by our industries. We never advertise our failures to protect the peoples that we should most respect and embrace. I could cite thousands of examples here but your ability to Google or otherwise search these things out is at least equal to my own. Maybe you just don't care?

I live in no "fantasy" world. I live in America. Throughout the history of America we have stood for high ideals and genuine compassion. We've been tripped up with questions of property ownership, race, gender, birth nationality and religion, etc., but the high ideals of common Americans have always prevailed and ultimately they will in this case.

Why are Republicans so afraid of the rights of people to organize within their work groups or neighborhood groups or Veterans groups or religious groups or even political groups beyond Republicanism? I would suggest the Republicans are at fault on these issues.

You will never sell the idea of freedom and liberty to the WORLD while you so often limit the same. You will never just be able to "kill" your opposition without proving to them your ideology is sound and unselfish. Otherwise, we have perpetual WAR which is what most Americans believed was abolished in WWI and WWII. True Freedom will ring. Americans, in general, understand this and that is why this old Vet keeps on truckin'.

Psychoblues

Did you rehearse this? You sound like you're running for office...fake and ingenuine. Start talking across to us like a debate instead of down to us like a speech.

 

[Psychoblues]

What part of all this do you find disengenuious? No, I don't rehearse any that I say here. I say what I say, have you no shame? Your accusation is completely without foundation or explanation.

Psychoblues

Did you rehearse this? You sound like you're running for office...fake and ingenuine. Start talking across to us like a debate instead of down to us like a speech.

 

[Hobbit]

What part of all this do you find disengenuious? No, I don't rehearse any that I say here. I say what I say, have you no shame? Your accusation is completely without foundation or explanation.

Psychoblues

It sounds like some pre-prepared speech some writer wrote up for you to deliver from a podium. It doesn't sound like a conversation at all.

 

[Psychoblues]

It sounds like some pre-prepared speech some writer wrote up for you to deliver from a podium. It doesn't sound like a conversation at all.

You must be referring to Sunday Morning Talk TV. Sorry, Hobbit, I don't rehearse or subject my topics to a focus group on anything that I say. I live in a very modest house, I am retired but I continue to work in a very modest but underpaid position and I have only one vote. You accuse me of rehearsal? Sorry, Charlie, but your accusations are as empty now as they were then.

Psychoblues

 

[Hobbit]

You must be referring to Sunday Morning Talk TV. Sorry, Hobbit, I don't rehearse or subject my topics to a focus group on anything that I say. I live in a very modest house, I am retired but I continue to work in a very modest but underpaid position and I have only one vote. You accuse me of rehearsal? Sorry, Charlie, but your accusations are as empty now as they were then.

Psychoblues

I'm not accusing you of rehearsing so much as I'm pointing out the fact that your posts sound like speeches to an audience rather than just a talk between a few people. It's a criticism of a condescending style of speech.

 

[Psychoblues]

I'm not accusing you of rehearsing so much as I'm pointing out the fact that your posts sound like speeches to an audience rather than just a talk between a few people. It's a criticism of a condescending style of speech.

"Condescending" is an interesting choice of words in this place of political discussion. "Condescending" is the modem operandi within this venue.

Look, Hobbit, I am not interested in your accusations or obfuscation. Get to the point and I'll reply as best and as quickly as I can.

I work very strange hours and I spend much of my off-time organizing potential voters and hopeful participants in the American political process.

I'm a 21 year veteran of American political elective politics and a 5 time eligible VFW lifetime member. I'm not an American Heroe although after my death I might be considered as such and then I won't be able to refute the claim. I care about my country to the extent that I use much of my time to promote the ideals of it that I can communicate to aspiring PATRIOTS.

My thought processes in our argument may be limited but my input to the question is not shallow. Do you have input to the question?

Psychoblues

 

[musicman]

Some Americans just can't get over the fact that other nations prefer a completely different brand of politics, government and national direction than as "advertised" by the Americans...

I think I'm beginning to understand, Psychoblues. I think I can dig it.

The people of other nations actually PREFER totalitarianism, abject poverty, and hopelessness. That's the reason they try to get themselves HERE - by any means, legal or illegal, chancing death - on foot through deserts, on rafts across oceans, and over walls guarded by men with "shoot to kill" orders. It's the same reason the world looks to us every time they steer themselves directly into the shitter - which they are doggedly and determinedly in the process of doing once again. America must really suck.

 

[musicman]

JFK tried his best to save American face and LBJ continued until his demise the same. Republicans can't get over all that. Democrats trying to save the face of Republican idiocies. What a hoot!!!!!!!!

Psychoblues

That is - speaking charitably - a quite creative interpretation of history. A more blunt summation would employ one word: fantasy.

However, it doesn't really answer my question: What, about the Viet Nam War, was bogus?

I submit to you that it was very much the same battle - with the same goals - as was the Korean War. The only difference was that - THIS time around - the propoganda being dished out by America's homegrown enemies in academia, arts, entertainment, and the media - found critical mass in a spoiled, disaffected, pampered, and self-absorbed generation.

America lost the Viet Nam War at home, and it is the fond hope of the American Left that Iraq proves to be a repeat performance.

 

[KarlMarx]

Have you forgotten? Or maybe you just conviently overlooked it. The Viet Nam War was inherited by Democrats from the very Republican Eisenhower Administration. I don't fault you for that, many Americans just don't realize that absolute fact. We didn't enter Viet Nam in 1960, we interjected ourselves in 1954. Do you remember who was president at that time? JFK tried his best to save American face and LBJ continued until his demise the same. Republicans can't get over all that. Democrats trying to save the face of Republican idiocies. What a hoot!!!!!!!!

Psychoblues

As far as the people that died after the war in Viet Nam are concerned, are you more concerned with them or the powers that denied them thier freedom to live? Americans tried in vain to save them. We were ordered to leave by a Republican President as he promised in order to get himself elected. This gets really convoluted. I suggest you read up on all of it and give us your summation of events as you see them.

I believe that the Vietnam war actually started to get the French out of Indo-China (it started with the French, that figures). Then, the communists got the idea that, once the French were out, they could "liberate" the south.

I remember that there was a great deal of pressure on both LBJ and Nixon to end the war. The Tet Offensive might have spelled the end of North Vietnam, their army was decimated, they lost over 40,000 soldiers. The MSM sold the American public a bag of lies. They hyped the Tet Offensive as an American loss, when in fact it was an American Victory.

The aim of the leaders of the "anti-war" movement was not, as David Horowitz revealed, to simply bring our troops home, it was a communist victory in Vietnam. That is why, even after we pulled out and our troops were home, that the Congress pulled the plug on funding the South Vietnamese. The real aim was to let the communists win.

And yes, I am more concerned with the people that died. At least under the corrupt regimes that were in place before the Communist takeover, people were allowed to live. The Khmer Rouge wiped out 2,000,000 people in just a few years! If that wasn't a modern day Holocaust, nothing was.

Now Vietnam is one of the poorest countries on the planet, begging for a place at the table. It's poetic justice, isn't it? Unfortunately, the present day regime in Vietnam is corrupt, too. I used to work with a lady that was a Vietnamese refugee and she sometimes would tell me of how she had to bribe officials to get her family out of the country, how bribing government workers is a common, everyday practice in Vietnam. So, how is Vietnam better now?

 

[Psychoblues]

Nope, musicman, i don't think you dig it at all. What you said is certainly not what I said and what you meant was certainly not debate or even simple minded consideration.

Are you one of those "musicmen" that doesn't understand the difference between an R sharp and a Be Flat? You indicate your intelligence and understanding by your interpretation of the "music" at hand. But, maybe I'm just being moody right now.

Psychoblues

I think I'm beginning to understand, Psychoblues. I think I can dig it.

The people of other nations actually PREFER totalitarianism, abject poverty, and hopelessness. That's the reason they try to get themselves HERE - by any means, legal or illegal, chancing death - on foot through deserts, on rafts across oceans, and over walls guarded by men with "shoot to kill" orders. It's the same reason the world looks to us every time they steer themselves directly into the shitter - which they are doggedly and determinedly in the process of doing once again. America must really suck.

 

[Stephanie]

Nope, musicman, i don't think you dig it at all. What you said is certainly not what I said and what you meant was certainly not debate or even simple minded consideration.

Are you one of those "musicmen" that doesn't understand the difference between an R sharp and a Be Flat? You indicate your intelligence and understanding by your interpretation of the "music" at hand. But, maybe I'm just being moody right now.

Psychoblues

. Don't worry be happy... dododoooodooodododddooooooooo, doddoooodododooududuooooo, don't worry be happy, oowwwoooooo, ooowwwooooo, ooooo, ooo, oooooooo don't worry be happy, oooowwwooo, ooooooooooooooooooo, Don't worry be happy... :halo:

 

[Psychoblues]

Stephany, let's be serious now, OK?

You've indicated that you don't respect my opinions. I've not responded to a single opinion that you've expressed beyond your inane attacts on my own. You're really funny, for at least entertainment purposes. You ain't from nothing as far as intellectual conversation is concerned.

PLEASE bother someone else!!!!!!!!!! You demonstrate no affiliation or loyalty to anything. I'm a married man of more than 30 years. Your comments, whether casual or flirtatious I fail to deciminate, are unwelcome to me.

Psychoblues

. Don't worry be happy... dododoooodooodododddooooooooo, doddoooodododooududuooooo, don't worry be happy, oowwwoooooo, ooowwwooooo, ooooo, ooo, oooooooo don't worry be happy, oooowwwooo, ooooooooooooooooooo, Don't worry be happy... :halo: