"Have you given thought to having sex with me."
"Yes."
"And?"
"I don't think so."
"Why not?"
"Because I'm not going to betray my husband."
"But aren't you betraying yourself if you don't do as you wish and have what you want?"
"Life isn't about pleasing yourself at the expense of others. That would be selfish."
"So if I understand you correctly, you're saying that if someone tells you that it will displease and hurt them if you decide to have what you want, then it's your responsibility to see that they remain pleased while you remain displeased? That sounds all one sided to me, and not at all conducive to anyone's happiness."
"Look, I made a commitment and took a vow. That means something to me."
"Yeah, and how old were you when you took that vow? Did you understand the world back then? Did you understand yourself and what you really wanted?"
"Are you trying to say I don't love my husband now?"
"I know you love him. But I think that, like everyone else, you've been conditioned to believe that there are terms to love that are written in stone. But there's not. There's just the way that relationships have been set up to prevent anyone from stepping off the tracks. A penalty for stepping off the tracks is well established and enforced by society. The truth is, there were never any tracks. The tracks are a myth. And so you won't have what you want because you believe that there's a hostage whose emotional wellbeing you have to consider. And that hostage is your husband."
"What do you mean my husband is a hostage?"
"I mean that there's something you want, but if you reach for it and enjoy it, and someone finds out, it means that your husband's perception of reality and his sense of security will be devastated. So, basically, you're kept from what you want because you have to protect the feelings and perceptions of another because their expectation is that you respect their expectation of you."
"No, you're mistaken if you think that we should all get everything we want. You just don't have any discipline when it comes to this kind of thing."
"But now you're using the concept of discipline as a way to accuse me of being a victim of my desires. But really, you're trying to justify denying yourself something that you want. Discipline is something applied to the practice of something; something like karate or chess or music. It has nothing to do with denying yourself something you want that will not hurt you."
"But you used discipline to stop drinking and smoking and drugging. So why was discipline a good thing in that case, but a bad thing in this case?"
"Because with chess and guitar I was acquiring a skill and an ability. And it's the same with the smoking and drinking. I wasn't using my discipline to stop smoking and drinking. I was using it to acquire health and wellbeing. Are you looking at sexuality like you look at smoking or drinking or drugging? Do you think you're gaining health and wellbeing by withholding a sexual experience from yourself?"
"You're letting yourself be ruled by logic so that you can gratify your base desires. But like with most things in life, sexual issues are not black and white, and neither are relationships."
"Well it sounds like you've called it . . . black."
"You see it that way because you're not getting what you want."
"And you're seeing it your way despite not getting what you want. So, how about it?"
"Okay, but just this once."
"Yes."
"And?"
"I don't think so."
"Why not?"
"Because I'm not going to betray my husband."
"But aren't you betraying yourself if you don't do as you wish and have what you want?"
"Life isn't about pleasing yourself at the expense of others. That would be selfish."
"So if I understand you correctly, you're saying that if someone tells you that it will displease and hurt them if you decide to have what you want, then it's your responsibility to see that they remain pleased while you remain displeased? That sounds all one sided to me, and not at all conducive to anyone's happiness."
"Look, I made a commitment and took a vow. That means something to me."
"Yeah, and how old were you when you took that vow? Did you understand the world back then? Did you understand yourself and what you really wanted?"
"Are you trying to say I don't love my husband now?"
"I know you love him. But I think that, like everyone else, you've been conditioned to believe that there are terms to love that are written in stone. But there's not. There's just the way that relationships have been set up to prevent anyone from stepping off the tracks. A penalty for stepping off the tracks is well established and enforced by society. The truth is, there were never any tracks. The tracks are a myth. And so you won't have what you want because you believe that there's a hostage whose emotional wellbeing you have to consider. And that hostage is your husband."
"What do you mean my husband is a hostage?"
"I mean that there's something you want, but if you reach for it and enjoy it, and someone finds out, it means that your husband's perception of reality and his sense of security will be devastated. So, basically, you're kept from what you want because you have to protect the feelings and perceptions of another because their expectation is that you respect their expectation of you."
"No, you're mistaken if you think that we should all get everything we want. You just don't have any discipline when it comes to this kind of thing."
"But now you're using the concept of discipline as a way to accuse me of being a victim of my desires. But really, you're trying to justify denying yourself something that you want. Discipline is something applied to the practice of something; something like karate or chess or music. It has nothing to do with denying yourself something you want that will not hurt you."
"But you used discipline to stop drinking and smoking and drugging. So why was discipline a good thing in that case, but a bad thing in this case?"
"Because with chess and guitar I was acquiring a skill and an ability. And it's the same with the smoking and drinking. I wasn't using my discipline to stop smoking and drinking. I was using it to acquire health and wellbeing. Are you looking at sexuality like you look at smoking or drinking or drugging? Do you think you're gaining health and wellbeing by withholding a sexual experience from yourself?"
"You're letting yourself be ruled by logic so that you can gratify your base desires. But like with most things in life, sexual issues are not black and white, and neither are relationships."
"Well it sounds like you've called it . . . black."
"You see it that way because you're not getting what you want."
"And you're seeing it your way despite not getting what you want. So, how about it?"
"Okay, but just this once."
