The Gettysburg Address

[JakeStarkey]

"The southern states voted legally within their legislatures to peacefully secede and then attempted to do so."

Criminals cannot tell government what they are going to do and not expect LEO to stop them.

 

[Rotagilla]

Abandoning what position?

Do you often talk to yourself?

I'm typing. You're replying.
Anything you care to say about the topic or have you abandoned it completely now?

Now I've abandoned the "topic," not my "position?"

Tell me, are you on crack?>

Address the topic if you can?

 

[JakeStarkey]

No it didn't. They had outlawed slavery in 8 of the 13 colonies. They passed the Northwest ordinance that outlawed slavery.

The USA government by constitutional procedure protected slavery.

Fact.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Rotagill is wrong on every point and has been shown to be so.

Because of that poster's ignorance, I suggest he read and tell us what the 9th paragraph of the The Cornerstone Speech says about slavery as the cause of the war.

?Corner Stone? Speech | Teaching American History

 

[Rotagilla]

"Any people anywhere, being inclined and having the power, have the right to rise up, and shake off the existing government, and form a new one that suits them better.

You don't do context well, do you? The criminal regime rose up and not having the power was executed.

semantic distortion.
word games.

Criminals cannot tell government what they are going to do and not expect LEO to stop them.

Were the colonists in 1776 patriots or "criminals"?

False premise: the South was not a sovereign nation.

Were the colonies a sovereign nation after the declaration of independence?

 

[JakeStarkey]

semantic distortion. word games. Yes, that is what you are doing.

Were the colonies a sovereign nation after the declaration of independence? False equivalency. The South was an integral part of an indivisible union.

Were the colonists in 1776 patriots or "criminals"? They were criminals by British law.

If our far right mutant militant armed groups raise up, they will be treated as enemy combatants and if taken with arms in hands, will be summarily executed.

 

[Rotagilla]

Rotagill is wrong on every point and has been shown to be so.

Incorrect. I posted verified quotes from the people involved at the time, including lincoln.

You posted nothing ....except "nuh uh".

Because of that poster's ignorance, I suggest he read and tell us what the 9th paragraph of the The Cornerstone Speech says about slavery as the cause of the war.

?Corner Stone? Speech | Teaching American History

yeah?..So?
No one is disputing that slavery was wrong.
What's your point in this diversion?

I'll see your stephens speech and raise you lincolns OWN WORDS ON SLAVERY AND THE WAR.

"My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or to destroy slavery. If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that. What I do about slavery, and the colored race, I do because I believe it helps to save the Union."
-- Abraham Lincoln
-From, Letter to Horace Greeley
August 22, 1862

 

[JakeStarkey]

Lincoln's speech to Greely is about the Union and preserving it.

Stephens' speech is why the CSA was set on dissolving the Union.

Lincoln was right, Stephens wrong, and history bears it out.

 

[peach174]

No it didn't. They had outlawed slavery in 8 of the 13 colonies. They passed the Northwest ordinance that outlawed slavery.

The USA government by constitutional procedure protected slavery.

Fact.

Wrong
States that outlawed slavery.
Vermont - 1777
Pennsylvania - 1780 - Pennsylvania's law passed in 1780 was for the "gradual abolishment of slavery" to take place over a period of 20 years.
Massachusetts - 1780
New Hampshire - 1783

Connecticut - 1784
Rhode Island - 1784
New York - 1799
New Jersey - 1804


Northwest Ordinance

Art. 6. There shall be neither slavery nor involuntary servitude in the said territory, otherwise than in the punishment of crimes whereof the party shall have been duly convicted: Provided, always, That any person escaping into the same, from whom labor or service is lawfully claimed in any one of the original States, such fugitive may be lawfully reclaimed and conveyed to the person claiming his or her labor or service as aforesaid.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Lincoln's speech to Greely is about the Union and preserving it.

Stephens' speech is why the CSA was set on dissolving the Union.

Lincoln was right, Stephens wrong, and history bears it out. The south had no constitutional right to leave the Union.

It tried, drew arms against lawful and constituted authority, and was shot down like a rabid dog.

 

[Rotagilla]

The South was an integral part of an indivisible union.

What legal authority do you use to reach that conclusion? Link?

They were criminals by British law.

So everyone who was killed by the british deserved it because "british law" said they were criminals? Circular logic.

..or was their cause just?

If our far right mutant militant armed groups raise up, they will be treated as enemy combatants and if taken with arms in hands, will be summarily executed.

I'm sure all the "far right mutant militants armed groups" will be.

The patriots, however, won't be as easy.

 

[Rotagilla]

Lincoln's speech to Greely is about the Union and preserving it.

Stephens' speech is why the CSA was set on dissolving the Union.

The south had no constitutional right to leave the Union.

It tried, drew arms against lawful and constituted authority, and was shot down like a rabid dog.Lincoln was right, Stephens wrong, and history bears it out.

lincoln was wrong.
stephens was wrong.
the south tried to legally and peacefully secede.
the north invaded.
the south defended their homeland.

history bears it out.

 

[Moonglow]

Yet slavery was wrong also...

 

[paperview]

No it didn't. They had outlawed slavery in 8 of the 13 colonies. They passed the Northwest ordinance that outlawed slavery.

The USA government by constitutional procedure protected slavery.

Fact.

Wrong
States that outlawed slavery.
Vermont - 1777
Pennsylvania - 1780 - Pennsylvania's law passed in 1780 was for the "gradual abolishment of slavery" to take place over a period of 20 years.
Massachusetts - 1780
New Hampshire - 1783

Connecticut - 1784
Rhode Island - 1784
New York - 1799
New Jersey - 1804


Northwest Ordinance

Art. 6. There shall be neither slavery nor involuntary servitude in the said territory, otherwise than in the punishment of crimes whereof the party shall have been duly convicted: Provided, always, That any person escaping into the same, from whom labor or service is lawfully claimed in any one of the original States, such fugitive may be lawfully reclaimed and conveyed to the person claiming his or her labor or service as aforesaid.

Those are states.

Starkey is right.

The US government & US Constitution protected slavery.

The 1858 US Supreme Court Dred Scott decision ensconced it further and even proclaimed free blacks non-citizens even in free states.

 

[Rotagilla]

Yet slavery was wrong also...

Yes.

It was the worst mistake this nation ever made. America would have been much better then and much better now if they'd just picked their own cotton.

 

[Rotagilla]

The USA government by constitutional procedure protected slavery.

Fact.

Wrong
States that outlawed slavery.
Vermont - 1777
Pennsylvania - 1780 - Pennsylvania's law passed in 1780 was for the "gradual abolishment of slavery" to take place over a period of 20 years.
Massachusetts - 1780
New Hampshire - 1783

Connecticut - 1784
Rhode Island - 1784
New York - 1799
New Jersey - 1804


Northwest Ordinance

Art. 6. There shall be neither slavery nor involuntary servitude in the said territory, otherwise than in the punishment of crimes whereof the party shall have been duly convicted: Provided, always, That any person escaping into the same, from whom labor or service is lawfully claimed in any one of the original States, such fugitive may be lawfully reclaimed and conveyed to the person claiming his or her labor or service as aforesaid.

Those are states.

Starkey is right.

The US government & US Constitution protected slavery.

The 1858 US Supreme Court Dred Scott decision ensconced it further and even proclaimed free blacks non-citizens even in free states.

there were slaves in the colonies under the british flag for a hundred years...

there were slaves in america under the american flag for 85 years or so.

there were slaves under the confederate flag for 4 years...but everyone hates the south for its' "legacy of slavery"....LMAO....carry on.

 

[JakeStarkey]

paperview is here.

Roty is in for some scrooling as his hero says.

 

[peach174]

The USA government by constitutional procedure protected slavery.

Fact.

Wrong
States that outlawed slavery.
Vermont - 1777
Pennsylvania - 1780 - Pennsylvania's law passed in 1780 was for the "gradual abolishment of slavery" to take place over a period of 20 years.
Massachusetts - 1780
New Hampshire - 1783

Connecticut - 1784
Rhode Island - 1784
New York - 1799
New Jersey - 1804


Northwest Ordinance

Art. 6. There shall be neither slavery nor involuntary servitude in the said territory, otherwise than in the punishment of crimes whereof the party shall have been duly convicted: Provided, always, That any person escaping into the same, from whom labor or service is lawfully claimed in any one of the original States, such fugitive may be lawfully reclaimed and conveyed to the person claiming his or her labor or service as aforesaid.

Those are states.

Starkey is right.

The US government & US Constitution protected slavery.

The 1858 US Supreme Court Dred Scott decision ensconced it further and even proclaimed free blacks non-citizens even in free states.

After the Civil War was the Civil Rights Act of 1866. That made the Blacks citizens.

President Buchanan had a hand in that decision over Dred Scott. It was very politically motivated and was very controversial.

Buchanan successfully pressured Associate Justice Robert Cooper Grier, a Northerner, to join the Southern majority in the Dred Scott decision to prevent the appearance that the decision was made along sectional lines. By present-day standards, such correspondence would be considered improper ex parte contact with a court.

So the decision was never about the Constitution in The 1858 US Supreme Court Dred Scott decision.

We had dirty politics way back then too.

Something that might have happened in this day and age, when Justice Roberts changed the Affordable Health Care Act to a tax and not a mandate.
Perhaps history will tell us again in the future that Obama had a hand in this decision, just like Buchanan had done.

 

[Rotagilla]

paperview is here.

Roty is in for some scrooling as his hero says.

No comments relevant to the topic?

I wonder why?

 

[JakeStarkey]

Oh, the topic has been discussed, Roty, and you lost.

Paperview will take her time, show you the documents and analysis, and you will be publicly thanking her for educating you.