The Fabian Society

[JBeukema]

Whose a good little Alinskyite?

5. "Ridicule is man's most potent weapon. It is almost impossible to counteract ridicule. Also it infuriates the opposition, which then reacts to your advantage."

But your posts are so easy to ridicule........

When a thing is totally laughable, the only appropriate response is laughter.

 

[JBeukema]

I believe he invented the Chicken Dance

Plenty of reason to dislike the man.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Id say you are a sewer dweller, rather than a sewer worker.
Its a little bit to obvious and lame posting scheme to take much pride in.

When pigs fly....when pigs fly

The **** does that mean?

 

[JBeukema]

When pigs fly....when pigs fly

The **** does that mean?

Flying pig - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[loosecannon]

Id say you are a sewer dweller, rather than a sewer worker.
Its a little bit to obvious and lame posting scheme to take much pride in.

I am not sure what response you anticipated but socialism is as credible a political religion as capitalism or any variety of limited democracy you could think up.

That a society existed to promote socialism is self evident. Even if the Fabians had never existed.

So?

Was there a deeper point?

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Id say the "inevitability of gradualness" is now bearing its fruit.

 

[loosecannon]

Id say the "inevitability of gradualness" is now bearing its fruit.

cool, but your family, society itself and the vast majority of tribal clans from which we ascended were all socialist. For millions of years.

If anything it is the gradualness of monarchy, capitalism and elitism that is in evidence. All of which are brand new, untested innovations yet to prove themselves.

But I don't suppose the impact of those facts will resonate inside your partisan skull cavity.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Thats an interesting take on things.I can do with out the denigrating remarks in the future,

 

[rightwinger]

Id say the "inevitability of gradualness" is now bearing its fruit.

So your point is that over time people will think Fabian is a great singer and flock to him? I doubt it. Fabian has a limited fan base and it has not expanded over the last 50 years

 

[teapartysamurai]

Who knew so many people worshipped Fabian! Kinda scary!

I'm sorry people. I just had to!

 

[loosecannon]

Thats an interesting take on things.I can do with out the denigrating remarks in the future,

OK, I apologize.

So let's go there.

The Fabian society set as it's original goals the achievement of real socialism, not social democracy.

Real socialism is the government ownership of the means of production usually defined as about 40% government ownership in those means. That is a very specific definition which has nothing to do with the wealth redistribution schemes and Nanny state architecture of social democracy.

Maybe the Fabians drifted after their founding, I dunno.

But their original goal would include things like the government owning the land, or a return to feudalism, and the factories of that time.

But it wouldn't include things the government owning the banks, schools, roads, and lotsa other things that are not means of production.

So my question is, what is it about socialism and social democracy that you so object to?

 

[rightwinger]

Who knew so many people worshipped Fabian! Kinda scary!

I'm sorry people. I just had to!

I see why Fitnah is so intimidated by him

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Thats an interesting take on things.I can do with out the denigrating remarks in the future,

OK, I apologize.

So let's go there.

The Fabian society set as it's original goals the achievement of real socialism, not social democracy.

Real socialism is the government ownership of the means of production usually defined as about 40% government ownership in those means. That is a very specific definition which has nothing to do with the wealth redistribution schemes and Nanny state architecture of social democracy.

Maybe the Fabians drifted after their founding, I dunno.

But their original goal would include things like the government owning the land, or a return to feudalism, and the factories of that time.

But it wouldn't include things the government owning the banks, schools, roads, and lotsa other things that are not means of production.

So my question is, what is it about socialism and social democracy that you so object to?

Thanks Ill make it up to you.
From the things that well known fabians have said in the past I dont think what they were going after was traditional socialism .
Shaw was a eugenicist and called himself a Christian socialist who wished to rid the world of inequality .
He prayed for a gas to use as a human way to rid the world of useless people Zyclon B was the answer.
The Fabian society :its early early history Ibid
Id say that the "untested innovations "of capitalism has created more freedom and liberty that all that came before it .
Im an advocate for smaller efficient constitutional government.
I dont like the nepotism and corruption we have now with a ruling class.

I dont think the government should be in the business of equal stuff , just equal protection under the law.

 

[rightwinger]

Thats an interesting take on things.I can do with out the denigrating remarks in the future,

OK, I apologize.

So let's go there.

The Fabian society set as it's original goals the achievement of real socialism, not social democracy.

Real socialism is the government ownership of the means of production usually defined as about 40% government ownership in those means. That is a very specific definition which has nothing to do with the wealth redistribution schemes and Nanny state architecture of social democracy.

Maybe the Fabians drifted after their founding, I dunno.

But their original goal would include things like the government owning the land, or a return to feudalism, and the factories of that time.

But it wouldn't include things the government owning the banks, schools, roads, and lotsa other things that are not means of production.

So my question is, what is it about socialism and social democracy that you so object to?

Thanks Ill make it up to you.
From the things that well known fabians have said in the past I dont think what they were going after was traditional socialism .
Shaw was a eugenicist and called himself a Christian socialist who wished to rid the world of inequality .
He prayed for a gas to use as a human way to rid the world of useless people Zyclon B was the answer.
The Fabian society :its early early history Ibid
Id say that the "untested innovations "of capitalism has created more freedom and liberty that all that came before it .
Im an advocate for smaller efficient constitutional government.
I dont like the nepotism and corruption we have now with a ruling class.

I dont think the government should be in the business of equal stuff , just equal protection under the law.

Fabian the Singer is a metaphor for the Fabian Socialists
Fabian the singer was popular 50 years ago but never gained lasting fame. The Fabian Socialists were popular 50 years ago but neer saw a lasting rise in socialism

To claim that the Fabians somehow hae relevance today is the same as claiming that Fabian the singer is relevant today

 

[loosecannon]

From the things that well known fabians have said in the past I dont think what they were going after was traditional socialism .

Well they were in the beginning, in the late 19th century.

Shaw was a eugenicist and called himself a Christian socialist who wished to rid the world of inequality .
He prayed for a gas to use as a human way to rid the world of useless people Zyclon B was the answer.
The Fabian society :its early early history Ibid

Henry Ford, most of the robber baron Barrons, Prescott Bush and even planned parenthood were all into this same shit back in the 20s and 30s. Even feminsists were eugenicists in that era.

Id say that the "untested innovations "of capitalism has created more freedom and liberty that all that came before it .
Im an advocate for smaller efficient constitutional government.
I dont like the nepotism and corruption we have now with a ruling class.

I dont think the government should be in the business of equal stuff , just equal protection under the law.

Capitalism may not have created any freedom at all, and democracy is usually credited with the freedoms of which you speak. While progressivism brought us an end to child labor, the weekend, overtime pay, vacations, safer workplaces etc.

Capitalism was alive and well under the monarchy from which our forefathers rebelled. They still rebelled. Citing a distinct lack of freedom. Also citing a distinct aversion to crony capitalism.

But my question is about socialism. And I do not intend to argue per se, I am just interested in what exactly you object to about socialism or more likely social democracy.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

I agree the progressives did some very good things they always go over board.
Im not a big fan of welfare states and government dependency .
The bigger they get the less I like them, despite some of the benefits seen in poverty levels.
To big to fail ?
I see it as squandering the future at the expense the next generation.
Right now we are spending about 17% on "welfare" and we are borrowing money to do that.
When the bill comes due?
What do we end up with a global government and a ruling elite ?

Representative republic not democracy.

Good night.

 

[loosecannon]

I agree the progressives did some very good things they always go over board.
Im not a big fan of welfare states and government dependency .
The bigger they get the less I like them, despite some of the benefits seen in poverty levels.

that is social democracy, not socialism. The operative word being democracy.

To big to fail ?
I see it as squandering the future at the expense the next generation.
Right now we are spending about 17% on "welfare" and we are borrowing money to do that.
When the bill comes due?
What do we end up with a global government and a ruling elite ?

Representative republic not democracy.

Good night.

Again your beef is with social democracy.

Is there anything else at all about socialism or social democracy that you protest?

 

[Sallow]

This is to much.

And really scraping the bottom.

 

[Dick Tuck]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8kM_zE7KITo[/ame]

 

[2Parties]

Is there anything else at all about socialism or social democracy that you protest?

Not directed at me but I oppose the violence and oppression that democracy socialism and social democracy implies by it's very nature.

You don't like the job choice and income of your neighbor? Get a majority (democracy) and threaten to imprison or kill him (government courts and enforcement) if he does not give you a portion determined by you to be fair (taxation). (This applies to every person who supports taxation, not just socialists).

The very nature of democracy is control. It is neither peaceful, nor desirable. Democracy is not freedom. It makes neighbors enemies, and friendly people violent rivals. It turns an average person into a thieving control freak through the privacy of a ballot box. It gives a "voice" to the majority (which is what the few elites who benefit want), most of whom have no understanding of the nature of government and humanity.

People make democracy a god, but democracy is nothing more than a demonstration of the limits of human knowledge and futility of striving for worldly perfection.