The end of the autism/vaccine debate?

[Si modo]

After all, the WHO/EPA crooks who invented the bogus numbers that "proved" 2nd hand tobacco smoke was a health risk are still having that faked data cited as though it's true.

2nd hand tobacco smoke IS a health risk. It is proven that kids in homes with smokers have increased trips to the doctor, and specifically increased ear infections.

First off, what's your source?

Second of all, you're talking about chiiilllldrreeennnn, not adults.

Lastly, why is it that the WHO and EPA skewed their test criteria and faked their data, only admitting so so after getting caught?

 

[SmarterThanHick]

First off, what's your source?

Second of all, you're talking about chiiilllldrreeennnn, not adults.

Lastly, why is it that the WHO and EPA skewed their test criteria and faked their data, only admitting so so after getting caught?

second hand smoke - PubMed result

As for your second question: don't care. Perhaps this may help you find the answers I don't much care about: Passive smoking - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Oddball]

Neither Wiki nor a .gov site have any credibility whatsoever.

Try again.

 

[SmarterThanHick]

that .gov site is just a search engine, linking to thousands of independently scrutinized peer reviewed journals from legitimate scientific works, without exclusion, regardless of the underlying message. Or do you only take the word of crackpot "researchers" who come up with conclusions from their basements with a sample size of 2?

 

[Barb]

The pharma lobby can get any of their scientists to write up whatever they want, and every supporting official greased with enough money to back them. I call bullshit!
I witnessed first hand what happened after my son, born with an APGAR score of ten, got 3 in one day (as my objections were dismissed as ignorant or molly coddling by the public health nurse). He developed behavior problems, was speech delayed, and had troubles with reading growing up. He's overcome everything, but it didn't have to be so hard for him, and I blame the mercury he was needlessly poisoned with.
One shot containing thimerosal (a preservative used solely to save the drug manufacturers money in packaging, as it would be completely unneeded if packaged in single shot doses) has more mercury than adults are advised to consume through the consumption of fish in any given week. The smaller the child, the smaller the liver, and the greater the risk. And it isn't just autism, it is neurological problems up to and including autism.

 

[midcan5]

Arguments about second hand smoke are downright ridiculous, anyone remember when trains had a smoking car? It was like fog it got so heavy, and if you think inhaling smoke has no effect, smoke on. second hand smoke and asthma - Google News


But serious question, why is autism increasing? Theories look at: later marriages, both sexes, toxins in the air, additives in foods, fire proofing in numerous products?

Back in the fifties we had families with lots of kids, but I never heard of autism then, most our friends (boomers) married young, no autism. Today I have seen several cases, a few in extended family, why?

 

[SmarterThanHick]

The pharma lobby can get any of their scientists to write up whatever they want, and every supporting official greased with enough money to back them. I call bullshit!
I witnessed first hand what happened after my son, born with an APGAR score of ten, got 3 in one day (as my objections were dismissed as ignorant or molly coddling by the public health nurse). He developed behavior problems, was speech delayed, and had troubles with reading growing up. He's overcome everything, but it didn't have to be so hard for him, and I blame the mercury he was needlessly poisoned with.
One shot containing thimerosal (a preservative used solely to save the drug manufacturers money in packaging, as it would be completely unneeded if packaged in single shot doses) has more mercury than adults are advised to consume through the consumption of fish in any given week. The smaller the child, the smaller the liver, and the greater the risk. And it isn't just autism, it is neurological problems up to and including autism.

And this is the unfortunate ignorance of uneducated Americans when it comes to scientific reasoning. Allow me to provide an example. Let's say that a man eats eggs every weekend. Shortly after eating his eggs, he gets sick. What does that say about the eggs? ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. Now if EVERYONE in the area got sick in the same manner after eating eggs, then it's much safer to conclude the eggs had something to do with it. So what's the difference? The sample size. If the sample size is ONE, no conclusions about the cause can really be made. Maybe it was the eggs, or maybe it was the raw chicken he likes to eat. The point is this: people get sick. We do. All the time, actually. And we love to blame someone for it.

So how do we distinguish whether its the proverbial egg or the chicken? We look at loads of people who also ate the eggs. If only 5 in 100,000 got sick after eating the eggs, we can conclude the eggs are safe. If 85,000 people in 100,000 get sick, we can conclude the eggs are contaminated.

So yes, it's unfortunate your kid has slowed behavioral growth. But it happens. All the time. And we still want to blame someone for it, regardless of whether there is someone to blame or not. You have a sample size of ONE. You are in no position to evaluate the risk to the general population. Those who HAVE taken large sample sizes of children who have and have not gotten vaccinated have found beyond any reasonable doubt that autism still pops up regardless of vaccination status, with no higher incidence if vaccinated.

Lastly: this is not the pharma lobby drumming up pocketed scientists. These are pediatricians and academic researchers.

 

[SmarterThanHick]

Arguments about second hand smoke are downright ridiculous, anyone remember when trains had a smoking car? It was like fog it got so heavy, and if you think inhaling smoke has no effect, smoke on. second hand smoke and asthma - Google News


But serious question, why is autism increasing? Theories look at: later marriages, both sexes, toxins in the air, additives in foods, fire proofing in numerous products?

Back in the fifties we had families with lots of kids, but I never heard of autism then, most our friends (boomers) married young, no autism. Today I have seen several cases, a few in extended family, why?

Haha, yeah lots of smoke back then. Thankfully we get to live twice as long now!

But you bring up a good question: why now? Well the first big reason is simply that we're identifying a lot more of it. People in the old days who had autism, especially the lighter versions of it, could have gone their entire lives without actually seeing that diagnosis. They were simply referred to as odd or retarded, and no one really thought to go much more into it.

With that being said, it is still believed that numbers are climbing a bit, once the lapse in diagnosis is accounted for. People theorize the cause of it all the time, but no one study has found a single answer yet. We've found a lot of things that DON'T cause it, such as vaccines, but there's no magic bullet yet. The same can be true about a lot of other diseases.

 

[uscitizen]

Neither Wiki nor a .gov site have any credibility whatsoever.

Try again.

Paranoid to the point of impotence?

 

[Oddball]

that .gov site is just a search engine, linking to thousands of independently scrutinized peer reviewed journals from legitimate scientific works, without exclusion, regardless of the underlying message. Or do you only take the word of crackpot "researchers" who come up with conclusions from their basements with a sample size of 2?

I certainly don't trust the site of the same people who funded the faked data that came from EPA.

 

[uscitizen]

that .gov site is just a search engine, linking to thousands of independently scrutinized peer reviewed journals from legitimate scientific works, without exclusion, regardless of the underlying message. Or do you only take the word of crackpot "researchers" who come up with conclusions from their basements with a sample size of 2?

I certainly don't trust the site of the same people who funded the faked data that came from EPA.

Yeah I have trouble believing the Bush crowd as well.

 

[eots]

Vaccine-Autism Court Award of $1.5M to Poling Family

On the heels of a federal appeals court ruling that denied an association between autism and vaccines, the family of nine-year-old Hannah Poling will receive more than $1.5 million to provide for her care for the rest of her life, to compensate for lost earnings, and for pain and suffering for the first year. Hannah developed autism after receiving vaccinations for nine diseases during one visit to her doctor.




Vaccine-Autism Court Award of $1.5M to Poling Family

 

[SmarterThanHick]

that .gov site is just a search engine, linking to thousands of independently scrutinized peer reviewed journals from legitimate scientific works, without exclusion, regardless of the underlying message. Or do you only take the word of crackpot "researchers" who come up with conclusions from their basements with a sample size of 2?

I certainly don't trust the site of the same people who funded the faked data that came from EPA.

Use google if you don't trust the search engine I provided. Here's the same search on Google Scholar: autism and vaccines - Google Scholar

Your pick. The scientists and research labs are still independent. So if you disagree with unbiased researchers, and don't even believe the original journal that printed there might be an association between the two has since RETRACTED the article, what would you believe? Seems like the answer is "nothing".

Vaccine-Autism Court Award of $1.5M to Poling Family

On the heels of a federal appeals court ruling that denied an association between autism and vaccines, the family of nine-year-old Hannah Poling will receive more than $1.5 million to provide for her care for the rest of her life, to compensate for lost earnings, and for pain and suffering for the first year. Hannah developed autism after receiving vaccinations for nine diseases during one visit to her doctor.




Vaccine-Autism Court Award of $1.5M to Poling Family

Lucky for us, science doesn't depend on court cases. While you did a good job of copying and pasting this article with a 2010 date, this was actually from a few years ago, before the vaccine issue was debunked. If you read the article, you should also note she had a really nasty mitochondrial disorder, and the parents were looking for someone to blame.

The fact still remains that every Children's Hospital in this country, staffed with some of the most highly trained and educated doctors, endorse childhood vaccination. Once again, all the smart people are telling you something here.

 

[Barb]

The pharma lobby can get any of their scientists to write up whatever they want, and every supporting official greased with enough money to back them. I call bullshit!
I witnessed first hand what happened after my son, born with an APGAR score of ten, got 3 in one day (as my objections were dismissed as ignorant or molly coddling by the public health nurse). He developed behavior problems, was speech delayed, and had troubles with reading growing up. He's overcome everything, but it didn't have to be so hard for him, and I blame the mercury he was needlessly poisoned with.
One shot containing thimerosal (a preservative used solely to save the drug manufacturers money in packaging, as it would be completely unneeded if packaged in single shot doses) has more mercury than adults are advised to consume through the consumption of fish in any given week. The smaller the child, the smaller the liver, and the greater the risk. And it isn't just autism, it is neurological problems up to and including autism.

And this is the unfortunate ignorance of uneducated Americans when it comes to scientific reasoning. Allow me to provide an example. Let's say that a man eats eggs every weekend. Shortly after eating his eggs, he gets sick. What does that say about the eggs? ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. Now if EVERYONE in the area got sick in the same manner after eating eggs, then it's much safer to conclude the eggs had something to do with it. So what's the difference? The sample size. If the sample size is ONE, no conclusions about the cause can really be made. Maybe it was the eggs, or maybe it was the raw chicken he likes to eat. The point is this: people get sick. We do. All the time, actually. And we love to blame someone for it.

So how do we distinguish whether its the proverbial egg or the chicken? We look at loads of people who also ate the eggs. If only 5 in 100,000 got sick after eating the eggs, we can conclude the eggs are safe. If 85,000 people in 100,000 get sick, we can conclude the eggs are contaminated.

So yes, it's unfortunate your kid has slowed behavioral growth. But it happens. All the time. And we still want to blame someone for it, regardless of whether there is someone to blame or not. You have a sample size of ONE. You are in no position to evaluate the risk to the general population. Those who HAVE taken large sample sizes of children who have and have not gotten vaccinated have found beyond any reasonable doubt that autism still pops up regardless of vaccination status, with no higher incidence if vaccinated.

Lastly: this is not the pharma lobby drumming up pocketed scientists. These are pediatricians and academic researchers.

I'm far from uneducated, and answer one very simple question: Is Mercury a toxic substance?

Mercury Poisoning Causes, Symptoms, and Prevention on MedicineNet.com

Health effects of mercury.
Mercury exposure at high levels can harm the brain, heart, kidneys, lungs, and immune system of people of all ages. Research shows that most people's fish consumption does not cause a health concern. However, it has been demonstrated that high levels of methylmercury in the bloodstream of unborn babies and young children may harm the developing nervous system, making the child less able to think and learn. More information

Thimerosal in Vaccines

In its report of October 1, 2001, the IOM's Immunization Safety Review Committee concluded that the evidence was inadequate to either accept or reject a causal relationship between thimerosal exposure from childhood vaccines and the neurodevelopmental disorders of autism, attention deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD), and speech or language delay. Additional studies were needed to establish or reject a causal relationship. The Committee did conclude that the hypothesis that exposure to thimerosal-containing vaccines could be associated with neurodevelopmental disorders was biologically plausible.

The Committee believed that the effort to remove thimerosal from vaccines was "a prudent measure in support of the public health goal to reduce mercury exposure of infants and children as much as possible." Furthermore, in this regard, the Committee urged that "full consideration be given to removing thimerosal from any biological product to which infants, children, and pregnant women are exposed."

 

[SmarterThanHick]

I'm far from uneducated, and answer one very simple question: Is Mercury a toxic substance?

Mercury Poisoning Causes, Symptoms, and Prevention on MedicineNet.com

Answer one very simple question: Is Tylenol a toxic substance?
Tylenol (acetaminophen) Liver Damage Causes, Symptoms, Treatment, and Diagnosis by MedicineNet.com

Answer one very simple question: Is Vitamin A a toxic substance?
Vitamin A Toxicity: eMedicine Endocrinology

Answer one very simple question: is Fluoride a toxic substance?
Fluoride poisoning - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Answer one very simple question: is Tuna a toxic substance?
Mercury in Tuna Sushi Higher at Restaurants than Groceries | LiveScience

Answer one very simple question: is Thimerosal a toxic substance in minuscule amounts?
CDC - Thimerosal FAQs -Vaccine Safety

Point being: everything is bad at large levels. I'd be more worried about the mercury found in tuna more than thimerasol, the latter of which gets broken down and eliminated from the body.

Perhaps "undereducated" would have been more accurate.

Thimerosal in Vaccines

In its report of October 1, 2001, the IOM's Immunization Safety Review Committee concluded that the evidence was inadequate to either accept or reject a causal relationship between thimerosal exposure from childhood vaccines and the neurodevelopmental disorders of autism, attention deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD), and speech or language delay. Additional studies were needed to establish or reject a causal relationship. The Committee did conclude that the hypothesis that exposure to thimerosal-containing vaccines could be associated with neurodevelopmental disorders was biologically plausible.

The Committee believed that the effort to remove thimerosal from vaccines was "a prudent measure in support of the public health goal to reduce mercury exposure of infants and children as much as possible." Furthermore, in this regard, the Committee urged that "full consideration be given to removing thimerosal from any biological product to which infants, children, and pregnant women are exposed."

2001 you say?! Well I suppose if we've learned nothing in the last decade, you may have.... nothing. Honestly look at that quote. There was concern. They did the right thing by removing it first and asking questions later. But the questions HAVE been asked, and answered, since 2001. Caution does not warrant ill-conceived conclusions that have already been shot down thoroughly.

 

[geauxtohell]

Neither Wiki nor a .gov site have any credibility whatsoever.

Try again.

What about a study from Canada?

The study from the University of Calgary in Canada checked 625 first grade students at 36 Calgary schools. Nearly a quarter of the children had a history of middle ear infections.

But children who lived in homes where there were two or more cigarette smokers during the first three years of life had an 85 percent higher than normal history of persistent or recurrent middle ear infections, the report said.

Ear infections in children linked to secondhand smoke - CNN

 

[Barb]

Answer one very simple question: Is Tylenol a toxic substance?
Tylenol (acetaminophen) Liver Damage Causes, Symptoms, Treatment, and Diagnosis by MedicineNet.com

Answer one very simple question: Is Vitamin A a toxic substance?
Vitamin A Toxicity: eMedicine Endocrinology

Answer one very simple question: is Fluoride a toxic substance?
Fluoride poisoning - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Answer one very simple question: is Tuna a toxic substance?
Mercury in Tuna Sushi Higher at Restaurants than Groceries | LiveScience

Answer one very simple question: is Thimerosal a toxic substance in minuscule amounts?
CDC - Thimerosal FAQs -Vaccine Safety

Point being: everything is bad at large levels. I'd be more worried about the mercury found in tuna more than thimerasol, the latter of which gets broken down and eliminated from the body.

Perhaps "undereducated" would have been more accurate.

Only one of the things on the list above is found in childhood vaccinations, and that inclusion is SOLELY to save money by packaging them in mult-dose containers rather than single dose containers.

The same study you poohed as outdated is listed in the article with more up to date studies.

 

[SmarterThanHick]

Answer one very simple question: Is Tylenol a toxic substance?
Tylenol (acetaminophen) Liver Damage Causes, Symptoms, Treatment, and Diagnosis by MedicineNet.com

Answer one very simple question: Is Vitamin A a toxic substance?
Vitamin A Toxicity: eMedicine Endocrinology

Answer one very simple question: is Fluoride a toxic substance?
Fluoride poisoning - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Answer one very simple question: is Tuna a toxic substance?
Mercury in Tuna Sushi Higher at Restaurants than Groceries | LiveScience

Answer one very simple question: is Thimerosal a toxic substance in minuscule amounts?
CDC - Thimerosal FAQs -Vaccine Safety

Point being: everything is bad at large levels. I'd be more worried about the mercury found in tuna more than thimerasol, the latter of which gets broken down and eliminated from the body.

Perhaps "undereducated" would have been more accurate.

Only one of the things on the list above is found in childhood vaccinations

Yes. The others in that list are in the drinking water, in everyday vitamins, and found in the food we eat. Once again I find myself asking: What's your point?

Every recent study and every doctor at every children's hospital across the country knows beyond any doubt that there is no increased risk of autism from vaccination for the general population. You want to pull a rare genetic mitochondrial disease which needed any of a million exacerbating factors to trigger it as the cause to remove it entirely? Perhaps you have forgotten that measles, mumps, rubella, H.flu, varicella, tetanus, diptheria, polio, strep.pneumo, rotavirus, hepatitis A/B, the common flu, HPV, meningitis, and pertussus are a BIT more common than rare genetic mitochondrial diseases? What do you think the risk-benefit analysis of your ignorance to my evidence would be?

If you're so worried, feel free to ask your doctor for single dose vial vaccinations. They exist.

 

[Barb]

Answer one very simple question: Is Tylenol a toxic substance?
Tylenol (acetaminophen) Liver Damage Causes, Symptoms, Treatment, and Diagnosis by MedicineNet.com

Answer one very simple question: Is Vitamin A a toxic substance?
Vitamin A Toxicity: eMedicine Endocrinology

Answer one very simple question: is Fluoride a toxic substance?
Fluoride poisoning - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Answer one very simple question: is Tuna a toxic substance?
Mercury in Tuna Sushi Higher at Restaurants than Groceries | LiveScience

Answer one very simple question: is Thimerosal a toxic substance in minuscule amounts?
CDC - Thimerosal FAQs -Vaccine Safety

Point being: everything is bad at large levels. I'd be more worried about the mercury found in tuna more than thimerasol, the latter of which gets broken down and eliminated from the body.

Perhaps "undereducated" would have been more accurate.

Only one of the things on the list above is found in childhood vaccinations

Yes. The others in that list are in the drinking water, in everyday vitamins, and found in the food we eat. Once again I find myself asking: What's your point?

Every recent study and every doctor at every children's hospital across the country knows beyond any doubt that there is no increased risk of autism from vaccination for the general population. You want to pull a rare genetic mitochondrial disease which needed any of a million exacerbating factors to trigger it as the cause to remove it entirely? Perhaps you have forgotten that measles, mumps, rubella, H.flu, varicella, tetanus, diptheria, polio, strep.pneumo, rotavirus, hepatitis A/B, the common flu, HPV, meningitis, and pertussus are a BIT more common than rare genetic mitochondrial diseases? What do you think the risk-benefit analysis of your ignorance to my evidence would be?

If you're so worried, feel free to ask your doctor for single dose vial vaccinations. They exist.

Why did you truncate my post? It wasn't that long. The requirement for the mercury laced preservative

is SOLELY to save money by packaging them in mult-dose containers rather than single dose containers. The same study you poohed as outdated is listed in the article with more up to date studies.

My kids are grown now, so for me, it isn't an issue beyond making sure their kids don't someday have to go through the same things. Adding vaccinations to the schedule adds exposure incidents to the mercury (because it is still used, even though its under a different name), and public health nurses and doctors need to be aware that "catching up" missed shots (missed because of childhood colds, ear infections etc...) in a single day (my son got 3) increases risk.

 

[SmarterThanHick]

Which study shows that? This should be interesting.