The educational system requires an overhaul

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Bad news there sunshine. Those foreign nationals that you want to hire don't speak these languages either! Spanish and even some Arabic instructors would be fine for those students in their native tongues, but how will they speak to American kids?

Didn't I state they needed to be proficient in English????? Why... Yes I did!

I recently worked with a teacher from Bosnia. No matter how hard he tried, he cannot rid himself of his definitive accent. He is an incredible teacher and works more hours than is imaginable for his students, but some students cannot get past that language barrier. Even his name is unpronounceable.

So now you're criticizing accents? I suppose you have issues with the variety of accents American English has too. Sounds like the one with an issue is yourself as you struggle to maintain your status quo.

*****CHUCKLE*****

Proficient is a nebulous term. Many African-American teachers I have encountered would not meet that requirement having lived in the US since their birth.

 

[Damaged Eagle]

View attachment 149708

You need someone to hold your hand and show you where the reply was made or is it your pretension that your superior intellect deems any response beneath you unless directly quoted?

*****CHUCKLE*****

Oh, you respond, just not with anything that hasn't been washed, fluffed and dried through your ignorance. That, and it still never addressees what I say, but repeats the propaganda that you dwell upon.

View attachment 149730

Still waiting on your proof that educational funding hasn't increased and that the learning curve has increased. Otherwise the only one touting what you're suggesting above is yourself as you aggressively adhere to the status quo. Is that what it takes to achieve your pretensions admiral?

*****CHUCKLE*****

I never made that claim. I asked you to support your contention that the learning curve had decreased, and you never did.

Why is it so difficult for you to handle?

Were you in special education classes? Do you have an IEP that I need to review?

Show me where you've made any attempt to disprove what I've stated admiral...

U.S. Education Slips In Rankings

U.S. Falls In World Education Rankings, Rated 'Average' | HuffPost

U.S. Students Slide In Global Ranking On Math, Reading, Science

...Or is it now your intention to institute some sort of IEP on the USMB. Perhaps you could also identify the at risk members also.

*****CHUCKLE*****

U.S. Education Slips In Rankings -

A 12 year-old article that references spending, but no real hard and fast data on education. - FAIL.

U.S. Falls In World Education Rankings, Rated 'Average' | HuffPost

A 10-year-old study based on the data referenced in your first link. Did you notice that they provided no data for any other country? How can you compare without the data? - FAIL.

U.S. Students Slide In Global Ranking On Math, Reading, Science

"The top overall scores came from Shanghai, Singapore, Hong Kong, Taiwan, South Korea, Macao and Japan".

Now, what do all of those countries have in common? Hmmmmmmmm......

Think you can figure that one out?

I doubt you can, so I will tell you. Those are homogenous societies where education and educators are respected. They have no minority populations with language issues to lower the average. Only high-performing students are including in their testing results while we include inner-city school where most will choose to drop out. Don't do your homework in Singapore and see how many strikes with a cane you get!

When the US society starts putting the same emphasis on education as those countries, maybe we can improve. However, that has nothing to do with the teachers or schools. All we do know is line them up for testing with some accommodations and then claim they are the same as kids in those countries. They are not the same and will never be.

OMG!!!!! Now we're getting somewhere. So your solution is to institute physical punishment to increase learning potential and eliminate those choosing not to learn from the testing results. We'll attempt to ignore you contempt for minorities while you're doing all this readjustment of the educational system to your satisfaction.

*****CHUCKLE*****

 

[Damaged Eagle]

Bad news there sunshine. Those foreign nationals that you want to hire don't speak these languages either! Spanish and even some Arabic instructors would be fine for those students in their native tongues, but how will they speak to American kids?

Didn't I state they needed to be proficient in English????? Why... Yes I did!

I recently worked with a teacher from Bosnia. No matter how hard he tried, he cannot rid himself of his definitive accent. He is an incredible teacher and works more hours than is imaginable for his students, but some students cannot get past that language barrier. Even his name is unpronounceable.

So now you're criticizing accents? I suppose you have issues with the variety of accents American English has too. Sounds like the one with an issue is yourself as you struggle to maintain your status quo.

*****CHUCKLE*****

Proficient is a nebulous term. Many African-American teachers I have encountered would not meet that requirement having lived in the US since their birth.

So now you're rescinding your abusi... I mean aggressive statements towards me about how you meant ELL students who have only been in the United States since migrating here and returning to an all encompassing statement about minorities in general not being proficient in English?

I really do wish you'd make up your mind on how you're going to show me your superior intellect when... criticizing me.

Is this a pretension thingee?

*****CHUCKLE*****

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Oh, you respond, just not with anything that hasn't been washed, fluffed and dried through your ignorance. That, and it still never addressees what I say, but repeats the propaganda that you dwell upon.

View attachment 149730

Still waiting on your proof that educational funding hasn't increased and that the learning curve has increased. Otherwise the only one touting what you're suggesting above is yourself as you aggressively adhere to the status quo. Is that what it takes to achieve your pretensions admiral?

*****CHUCKLE*****

I never made that claim. I asked you to support your contention that the learning curve had decreased, and you never did.

Why is it so difficult for you to handle?

Were you in special education classes? Do you have an IEP that I need to review?

Show me where you've made any attempt to disprove what I've stated admiral...

U.S. Education Slips In Rankings

U.S. Falls In World Education Rankings, Rated 'Average' | HuffPost

U.S. Students Slide In Global Ranking On Math, Reading, Science

...Or is it now your intention to institute some sort of IEP on the USMB. Perhaps you could also identify the at risk members also.

*****CHUCKLE*****

U.S. Education Slips In Rankings -

A 12 year-old article that references spending, but no real hard and fast data on education. - FAIL.

U.S. Falls In World Education Rankings, Rated 'Average' | HuffPost

A 10-year-old study based on the data referenced in your first link. Did you notice that they provided no data for any other country? How can you compare without the data? - FAIL.

U.S. Students Slide In Global Ranking On Math, Reading, Science

"The top overall scores came from Shanghai, Singapore, Hong Kong, Taiwan, South Korea, Macao and Japan".

Now, what do all of those countries have in common? Hmmmmmmmm......

Think you can figure that one out?

I doubt you can, so I will tell you. Those are homogenous societies where education and educators are respected. They have no minority populations with language issues to lower the average. Only high-performing students are including in their testing results while we include inner-city school where most will choose to drop out. Don't do your homework in Singapore and see how many strikes with a cane you get!

When the US society starts putting the same emphasis on education as those countries, maybe we can improve. However, that has nothing to do with the teachers or schools. All we do know is line them up for testing with some accommodations and then claim they are the same as kids in those countries. They are not the same and will never be.

View attachment 149766

OMG!!!!! Now we're getting somewhere. So your solution is to institute physical punishment to increase learning potential and eliminate those choosing not to learn from the testing results. We'll attempt to ignore you contempt for minorities while you're doing all this readjustment of the educational system to your satisfaction.

*****CHUCKLE*****

You posted: "So your solution is to institute physical punishment to increase learning potential and eliminate those choosing not to learn from the testing results."

Will you please post where I said anything even remotely like that?

I never did.

You are a troll of the highest caliber.

Take your bullshit and show it up your ass from whence it came.

 

[Damaged Eagle]

View attachment 149730

Still waiting on your proof that educational funding hasn't increased and that the learning curve has increased. Otherwise the only one touting what you're suggesting above is yourself as you aggressively adhere to the status quo. Is that what it takes to achieve your pretensions admiral?

*****CHUCKLE*****

I never made that claim. I asked you to support your contention that the learning curve had decreased, and you never did.

Why is it so difficult for you to handle?

Were you in special education classes? Do you have an IEP that I need to review?

Show me where you've made any attempt to disprove what I've stated admiral...

U.S. Education Slips In Rankings

U.S. Falls In World Education Rankings, Rated 'Average' | HuffPost

U.S. Students Slide In Global Ranking On Math, Reading, Science

...Or is it now your intention to institute some sort of IEP on the USMB. Perhaps you could also identify the at risk members also.

*****CHUCKLE*****

U.S. Education Slips In Rankings -

A 12 year-old article that references spending, but no real hard and fast data on education. - FAIL.

U.S. Falls In World Education Rankings, Rated 'Average' | HuffPost

A 10-year-old study based on the data referenced in your first link. Did you notice that they provided no data for any other country? How can you compare without the data? - FAIL.

U.S. Students Slide In Global Ranking On Math, Reading, Science

"The top overall scores came from Shanghai, Singapore, Hong Kong, Taiwan, South Korea, Macao and Japan".

Now, what do all of those countries have in common? Hmmmmmmmm......

Think you can figure that one out?

I doubt you can, so I will tell you. Those are homogenous societies where education and educators are respected. They have no minority populations with language issues to lower the average. Only high-performing students are including in their testing results while we include inner-city school where most will choose to drop out. Don't do your homework in Singapore and see how many strikes with a cane you get!

When the US society starts putting the same emphasis on education as those countries, maybe we can improve. However, that has nothing to do with the teachers or schools. All we do know is line them up for testing with some accommodations and then claim they are the same as kids in those countries. They are not the same and will never be.

View attachment 149766

OMG!!!!! Now we're getting somewhere. So your solution is to institute physical punishment to increase learning potential and eliminate those choosing not to learn from the testing results. We'll attempt to ignore you contempt for minorities while you're doing all this readjustment of the educational system to your satisfaction.

*****CHUCKLE*****

You posted: "So your solution is to institute physical punishment to increase learning potential and eliminate those choosing not to learn from the testing results."

Will you please post where I said anything even remotely like that?

I never did.

You are a troll of the highest caliber.

Take your bullshit and show it up your ass from whence it came.

You stated and I quote...

...When the US society starts putting the same emphasis on education as those countries, maybe we can improve...

...This after explaining how those countries that are doing better in education than the United States.

If you didn't mean we should follow their example then perhaps you should explain your statement.

*****CHUCKLE*****

 

[Unkotare]

...

...This after explaining how those countries that are doing better in education than the United States.

....

Which countries?

 

[Damaged Eagle]

...

...This after explaining how those countries that are doing better in education than the United States.

....

Which countries?

Read post #120 and direct your question at the admiral.

*****SMILE*****

 

[Unkotare]

...

...This after explaining how those countries that are doing better in education than the United States.

....

Which countries?

Read post #120 and direct your question at the admiral.

Answer the question, coward.

 

[Damaged Eagle]

...

...This after explaining how those countries that are doing better in education than the United States.

....

Which countries?

Read post #120 and direct your question at the admiral.

Answer the question, coward.

I gave you all the information you required to understand your question troll.

*****SMILE*****

 

[Unkotare]

...

...This after explaining how those countries that are doing better in education than the United States.

....

Which countries?

Read post #120 and direct your question at the admiral.

Answer the question, coward.

View attachment 151399

I gave you all the information you required to understand your question troll.

*****SMILE*****

= full of shit

 

[SeaGal]

"The top overall scores came from Shanghai, Singapore, Hong Kong, Taiwan, South Korea, Macao and Japan".

Now, what do all of those countries have in common? Hmmmmmmmm......

Think you can figure that one out?

I doubt you can, so I will tell you. 'Those are homogenous societies where education and educators are respected.'They have no minority populations with language issues to lower the average. Only high-performing students are including in their testing results while we include inner-city school where most will choose to drop out. Don't do your homework in Singapore and see how many strikes with a cane you get!

When the US society starts putting the same emphasis on education as those countries, maybe then we can improve...

Critiquing our educational system, and making suggestions for improvement is not a reflection on teachers. Teachers are like any other group of public employees - many do a better job than some. They are not a special group entitled to protections from criticism and accountability - they are, in fact, public servants. And if the public doesn't feel they are getting the best bang for their educational buck, the public has the right to question and examine. Federal funding is an impetus to conform to federal guidelines - miniscule as it may be, ask any school receiving Title One funding how they feel about losing it.

That said, I agree with the following - 'Those are homogenous societies where education and educators are respected.'
When the US society starts putting the same emphasis on education as those countries, maybe then we can improve.

Just as all schools or teachers can't be blamed for the problems, neither can all parents. I, for one, feel public education became politicized when the unions formed PAC's...I don't know about yours but the one I was a member of donated exclusively to one party the entire 26 years of my membership - this despite the affiliations of the members being spit 48-44 among the two predominant political parties.

I believe you will also find in most of the countries out performing the US, including those in the EU, competition is fierce to get 'accepted' into the best schools (a form of school choice, btw), discipline is strict, and education takes up a greater part of the day/week/school year. We have operated for some time under the theory that skills diversity in the classroom is good - some local schools are re-thinking that policy at the elementary level. The classes with the lowest performing students have a lower teacher/student ratio.

It isn't good enough to dismiss the international results of testing and correlation of per student spending by saying, 'but we do education differently' because that is the point. Except, perhaps, the cost of transportation, custodial and food service is most likely greater in the US than in densely packed population centers with mass transit.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

"The top overall scores came from Shanghai, Singapore, Hong Kong, Taiwan, South Korea, Macao and Japan".

Now, what do all of those countries have in common? Hmmmmmmmm......

Think you can figure that one out?

I doubt you can, so I will tell you. 'Those are homogenous societies where education and educators are respected.'They have no minority populations with language issues to lower the average. Only high-performing students are including in their testing results while we include inner-city school where most will choose to drop out. Don't do your homework in Singapore and see how many strikes with a cane you get!

When the US society starts putting the same emphasis on education as those countries, maybe then we can improve...

Critiquing our educational system, and making suggestions for improvement is not a reflection on teachers. Teachers are like any other group of public employees - many do a better job than some. They are not a special group entitled to protections from criticism and accountability - they are, in fact, public servants. And if the public doesn't feel they are getting the best bang for their educational buck, the public has the right to question and examine. Federal funding is an impetus to conform to federal guidelines - miniscule as it may be, ask any school receiving Title One funding how they feel about losing it.

That said, I agree with the following - 'Those are homogenous societies where education and educators are respected.'
When the US society starts putting the same emphasis on education as those countries, maybe then we can improve.

Just as all schools or teachers can't be blamed for the problems, neither can all parents. I, for one, feel public education became politicized when the unions formed PAC's...I don't know about yours but the one I was a member of donated exclusively to one party the entire 26 years of my membership - this despite the affiliations of the members being spit 48-44 among the two predominant political parties.

I believe you will also find in most of the countries out performing the US, including those in the EU, competition is fierce to get 'accepted' into the best schools (a form of school choice, btw), discipline is strict, and education takes up a greater part of the day/week/school year. We have operated for some time under the theory that skills diversity in the classroom is good - some local schools are re-thinking that policy at the elementary level. The classes with the lowest performing students have a lower teacher/student ratio.

It isn't good enough to dismiss the international results of testing and correlation of per student spending by saying, 'but we do education differently' because that is the point. Except, perhaps, the cost of transportation, custodial and food service is most likely greater in the US than in densely packed population centers with mass transit.

That is one of the best well-reasoned responses I have ever had on this forum. You are obviously well versed in this topic.

Our local paper has a huge article today on the problem of truancy throughout the state. You cannot teach them, nor expect them to learn anything if they are never in school. I had a student that was there the first day of school. He was gone until I gave out progress reports at the four and a half week point in the grading period. Of course, his grade was a zero. How do we combat these incidents when there is no public support, nor any support from the judicial system. We can haul these kids and parents into court, but nothing happens.

 

[SeaGal]

That is one of the best well-reasoned responses I have ever had on this forum. You are obviously well versed in this topic.

Our local paper has a huge article today on the problem of truancy throughout the state. You cannot teach them, nor expect them to learn anything if they are never in school. I had a student that was there the first day of school. He was gone until I gave out progress reports at the four and a half week point in the grading period. Of course, his grade was a zero. How do we combat these incidents when there is no public support, nor any support from the judicial system. We can haul these kids and parents into court, but nothing happens.

I appreciate that - my family seems to have grown more than its fair share of educators and administrators. We all care deeply...obviously so do you, as well as damaged eagle and others.

Although I would prefer to see parents and teachers as allies rather than adversaries - there is no getting around the reality that some children have little to no support at home. In your case, plainly speaking - your class is probably better off with a mia student than a resentfully disruptive one. Yet that zero affects the schools rating...your hands are tied...and it ultimately hurts the community. How to solve the issue of public and judicial indifference?...wish I knew. (in my area consequences would receive public support)

Important decisions made at the district and state level are often the results of lawsuits, or threat of legal action, initiated by a very small group of parents with special interests. Not all of them are practical, beneficial to the majority of students, or cost effective, but in my state most districts do not have the funding to fight lawsuits.

 

[Damaged Eagle]

*****SMILE*****