The CBO’s report on raising the min wage demonstrates how RWs don’t understand the topic

[kyzr]

A congressional committee (Maxine's) just questioned Powell. One asked, "would the $15/hr minimum wage help or hurt the US economy". Powell declined to answer, and said that was congress' decision. IMHO the minimum wage should be a state decision based on Federal guidance, such as:
1. Heads of households should have a "phased in" $15/hr minimum wage, phased in over 2 or 3 years.
2. Non-heads of households should have a $10 or $12 minimum wage, also phased in over 2 or 3 years.
3. If any employees qualify for government assistance, it needs to be reported to the IRS. (the government should not be subsidizing any business)

That would give businesses time to adjust their financial planning. The problem to be addressed is income inequality. The top tax rate needs to increase to cover the budget deficit and the entitlements and healthcare for retirees.

 

[Billy000]

What many on the left fail to understand is this is not a one size fits all world. In some areas of country a 15 dollar an hour minimum will have little negative impact and be a benefit in others it will be devastating.

This report disputes exactly what you are saying.

 

[Billy000]

So many times I hear conservatives make the ridiculous claim that if the minimum wage was raised a few buck an hour, the cost of everything would skyrocket. It comes from such a place of ignorance. And yes, prices would rise but we are talking cents on the dollar and people would have a few extra hundred bucks to spend each month.

Actual economics matter. Jobs would be lost initially, but over time the boost to consumer spending would CREATE jobs. The cost of jobs is worth the benefits.

“A new report from the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) has evaluated the impact of raising the federal minimum wage to $15, $12, or $10 per hour by 2025. According to CBO estimates, raising the minimum wage to $15 an hour would boost the pay for 17 million workers. But, says CBO, it would also cause a median 1.3 million employees to lose their jobs as employers can’t afford the wage — that’s a 0.8% reduction of the number of employed workers.

CBO says that if the federal minimum wage were raised to $15 an hour, there is a 66% chance that between none and 3.7 million people could lose their jobs. However, the report states, “there is considerable uncertainty about the size of any option’s effect on employment.”

$15 minimum wage would boost pay for 17 million workers, says CBO

So many times I hear conservatives make the ridiculous claim that if the minimum wage was raised a few buck an hour, the cost of everything would skyrocket. It comes from such a place of ignorance. And yes, prices would rise but we are talking cents on the dollar and people would have a few extra hundred bucks to spend each month.

Yes, some low skilled workers would benefit with more income.
Some low skilled workers would end up with no income.
Some prices would increase.
The employed would have more to spend. The unemployed would have less to spend.
Their employers would have less to spend.

Actual economics matter. Jobs would be lost initially, but over time the boost to consumer spending would CREATE jobs.

Increased spending? From the loss of up to 3.7 million jobs?

Uh yeah. Over time, a few hundred bucks a month for 17 million workers would create economic gains.

 

[blackhawk]

What many on the left fail to understand is this is not a one size fits all world. In some areas of country a 15 dollar an hour minimum will have little negative impact and be a benefit in others it will be devastating.

This report disputes exactly what you are saying.

What many on the left fail to understand is this is not a one size fits all world. In some areas of country a 15 dollar an hour minimum will have little negative impact and be a benefit in others it will be devastating.

This report disputes exactly what you are saying.

The report says the impact would be the exact same across the entire country bullshit. Only people very naive stupid or both would buy that.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

A congressional committee (Maxine's) just questioned Powell. One asked, "would the $15/hr minimum wage help or hurt the US economy". Powell declined to answer, and said that was congress' decision. IMHO the minimum wage should be a state decision based on Federal guidance, such as:
1. Heads of households should have a "phased in" $15/hr minimum wage, phased in over 2 or 3 years.
2. Non-heads of households should have a $10 or $12 minimum wage, also phased in over 2 or 3 years.
3. If any employees qualify for government assistance, it needs to be reported to the IRS. (the government should not be subsidizing any business)

That would give businesses time to adjust their financial planning. The problem to be addressed is income inequality. The top tax rate needs to increase to cover the budget deficit and the entitlements and healthcare for retirees.

Heads of households should have a "phased in" $15/hr minimum wage, phased in over 2 or 3 years.

Bad idea.

Non-heads of households should have a $10 or $12 minimum wage, also phased in over 2 or 3 years.

Makes your first bad idea even worse.

If any employees qualify for government assistance, it needs to be reported to the IRS. (the government should not be subsidizing any business)

If the government gives benefits to an unskilled or low skilled worker, how is that a subsidy to the business?

The problem to be addressed is income inequality.

Why is that a problem? Why do you feel the government has the power or the ability to fix it?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

So many times I hear conservatives make the ridiculous claim that if the minimum wage was raised a few buck an hour, the cost of everything would skyrocket. It comes from such a place of ignorance. And yes, prices would rise but we are talking cents on the dollar and people would have a few extra hundred bucks to spend each month.

Actual economics matter. Jobs would be lost initially, but over time the boost to consumer spending would CREATE jobs. The cost of jobs is worth the benefits.

“A new report from the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) has evaluated the impact of raising the federal minimum wage to $15, $12, or $10 per hour by 2025. According to CBO estimates, raising the minimum wage to $15 an hour would boost the pay for 17 million workers. But, says CBO, it would also cause a median 1.3 million employees to lose their jobs as employers can’t afford the wage — that’s a 0.8% reduction of the number of employed workers.

CBO says that if the federal minimum wage were raised to $15 an hour, there is a 66% chance that between none and 3.7 million people could lose their jobs. However, the report states, “there is considerable uncertainty about the size of any option’s effect on employment.”

$15 minimum wage would boost pay for 17 million workers, says CBO

So many times I hear conservatives make the ridiculous claim that if the minimum wage was raised a few buck an hour, the cost of everything would skyrocket. It comes from such a place of ignorance. And yes, prices would rise but we are talking cents on the dollar and people would have a few extra hundred bucks to spend each month.

Yes, some low skilled workers would benefit with more income.
Some low skilled workers would end up with no income.
Some prices would increase.
The employed would have more to spend. The unemployed would have less to spend.
Their employers would have less to spend.

Actual economics matter. Jobs would be lost initially, but over time the boost to consumer spending would CREATE jobs.

Increased spending? From the loss of up to 3.7 million jobs?

Uh yeah. Over time, a few hundred bucks a month for 17 million workers would create economic gains.

Baloney. Giving workers more money, just because it makes you feel better, doesn't magically increase GDP.
If it doesn't increase GDP, you're just moving money around, not adding money to the economy.

 

[Billy000]

What many on the left fail to understand is this is not a one size fits all world. In some areas of country a 15 dollar an hour minimum will have little negative impact and be a benefit in others it will be devastating.

This report disputes exactly what you are saying.

What many on the left fail to understand is this is not a one size fits all world. In some areas of country a 15 dollar an hour minimum will have little negative impact and be a benefit in others it will be devastating.

This report disputes exactly what you are saying.

The report says the impact would be the exact same across the entire country bullshit. Only people very naive stupid or both would buy that.

These people are economists. You are not. You are uneducated in economics. The estimate of job loss has those more vulnerable areas in mind.

 

[Billy000]

So many times I hear conservatives make the ridiculous claim that if the minimum wage was raised a few buck an hour, the cost of everything would skyrocket. It comes from such a place of ignorance. And yes, prices would rise but we are talking cents on the dollar and people would have a few extra hundred bucks to spend each month.

Actual economics matter. Jobs would be lost initially, but over time the boost to consumer spending would CREATE jobs. The cost of jobs is worth the benefits.

“A new report from the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) has evaluated the impact of raising the federal minimum wage to $15, $12, or $10 per hour by 2025. According to CBO estimates, raising the minimum wage to $15 an hour would boost the pay for 17 million workers. But, says CBO, it would also cause a median 1.3 million employees to lose their jobs as employers can’t afford the wage — that’s a 0.8% reduction of the number of employed workers.

CBO says that if the federal minimum wage were raised to $15 an hour, there is a 66% chance that between none and 3.7 million people could lose their jobs. However, the report states, “there is considerable uncertainty about the size of any option’s effect on employment.”

$15 minimum wage would boost pay for 17 million workers, says CBO

So many times I hear conservatives make the ridiculous claim that if the minimum wage was raised a few buck an hour, the cost of everything would skyrocket. It comes from such a place of ignorance. And yes, prices would rise but we are talking cents on the dollar and people would have a few extra hundred bucks to spend each month.

Yes, some low skilled workers would benefit with more income.
Some low skilled workers would end up with no income.
Some prices would increase.
The employed would have more to spend. The unemployed would have less to spend.
Their employers would have less to spend.

Actual economics matter. Jobs would be lost initially, but over time the boost to consumer spending would CREATE jobs.

Increased spending? From the loss of up to 3.7 million jobs?

Uh yeah. Over time, a few hundred bucks a month for 17 million workers would create economic gains.

Baloney. Giving workers more money, just because it makes you feel better, doesn't magically increase GDP.
If it doesn't increase GDP, you're just moving money around, not adding money to the economy.

Lol this is a consumer based economy you idiot. Of course it would increase GDP. That’s capitalism.

 

[blackhawk]

What many on the left fail to understand is this is not a one size fits all world. In some areas of country a 15 dollar an hour minimum will have little negative impact and be a benefit in others it will be devastating.

This report disputes exactly what you are saying.

What many on the left fail to understand is this is not a one size fits all world. In some areas of country a 15 dollar an hour minimum will have little negative impact and be a benefit in others it will be devastating.

This report disputes exactly what you are saying.

The report says the impact would be the exact same across the entire country bullshit. Only people very naive stupid or both would buy that.

These people are economists. You are not. You are uneducated in economics. The estimate of job loss has those more vulnerable areas in mind.

You have no idea what I’m educated in the only thing you seem to be educated in is partisan BS. The CBO gives estimates and opinions and have been wrong before I have also seen you lefties be dismissive of and reject the CBO when they put out something that doesn’t support your narrative. I take the CBO for what it is and don’t accept what they put out as the gospel truth no matter which political narrative benefits from it.

 

[kyzr]

A congressional committee (Maxine's) just questioned Powell. One asked, "would the $15/hr minimum wage help or hurt the US economy". Powell declined to answer, and said that was congress' decision. IMHO the minimum wage should be a state decision based on Federal guidance, such as:
1. Heads of households should have a "phased in" $15/hr minimum wage, phased in over 2 or 3 years.
2. Non-heads of households should have a $10 or $12 minimum wage, also phased in over 2 or 3 years.
3. If any employees qualify for government assistance, it needs to be reported to the IRS. (the government should not be subsidizing any business)

That would give businesses time to adjust their financial planning. The problem to be addressed is income inequality. The top tax rate needs to increase to cover the budget deficit and the entitlements and healthcare for retirees.

Heads of households should have a "phased in" $15/hr minimum wage, phased in over 2 or 3 years.

Bad idea.

Non-heads of households should have a $10 or $12 minimum wage, also phased in over 2 or 3 years.

Makes your first bad idea even worse.

If any employees qualify for government assistance, it needs to be reported to the IRS. (the government should not be subsidizing any business)

If the government gives benefits to an unskilled or low skilled worker, how is that a subsidy to the business?

The problem to be addressed is income inequality.

Why is that a problem? Why do you feel the government has the power or the ability to fix it?

If you look at the wealth distribution over time (chart below), the bottom 95% or so lose wealth and the top 5% or so gain wealth. IMHO the US needs a strong and healthy middle-class. If we devolve into the 1% of super-rich and the rest of us as peons, that society will fail.
a. You say min wages are a "bad idea" but don't say why. Job loses (1% -3%) are acceptable for non-heads of households.
b. Every job should provide a living wage, or we are peon drones, no worker should ever qualify for food stamps or welfare. (Even welfare recipients should work for their checks, like the WPA in the 1930s)
c. The Commerce Clause gives the government the power to regulate business. The government needs to work with business to prepare the work-force for productive work. I support free Community College with job training that lands good jobs, (like Germany). How will robotics and artificial intelligence affect the work-force?

Policies to reduce economic inequality

1. Increase the minimum wage.
2. Expand the Earned Income Tax Credit
3. Build assets for working families, like affordable housing
4. Invest in education, like free Community College and job training for real jobs (not worthless degrees with massive student loan debt)
5. Make the tax code more progressive, raise the top tax rate, add a VAT if needed to balance budget

 

[Billy000]

What many on the left fail to understand is this is not a one size fits all world. In some areas of country a 15 dollar an hour minimum will have little negative impact and be a benefit in others it will be devastating.

This report disputes exactly what you are saying.

What many on the left fail to understand is this is not a one size fits all world. In some areas of country a 15 dollar an hour minimum will have little negative impact and be a benefit in others it will be devastating.

This report disputes exactly what you are saying.

The report says the impact would be the exact same across the entire country bullshit. Only people very naive stupid or both would buy that.

These people are economists. You are not. You are uneducated in economics. The estimate of job loss has those more vulnerable areas in mind.

You have no idea what I’m educated in the only thing you seem to be educated in is partisan BS. The CBO gives estimates and opinions and have been wrong before I have also seen you lefties be dismissive of and reject the CBO when they put out something that doesn’t support your narrative. I take the CBO for what it is and don’t accept what they put out as the gospel truth no matter which political narrative benefits from it.

No entity predicting economics is always 100% correct. You’re pretending you know more about economics than the CBO does and that’s stupid. Obviously you aren’t wrong that a flat min wage hike nationwide would hit some areas worse than others, but that is something the report takes into account.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

So many times I hear conservatives make the ridiculous claim that if the minimum wage was raised a few buck an hour, the cost of everything would skyrocket. It comes from such a place of ignorance. And yes, prices would rise but we are talking cents on the dollar and people would have a few extra hundred bucks to spend each month.

Actual economics matter. Jobs would be lost initially, but over time the boost to consumer spending would CREATE jobs. The cost of jobs is worth the benefits.

“A new report from the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) has evaluated the impact of raising the federal minimum wage to $15, $12, or $10 per hour by 2025. According to CBO estimates, raising the minimum wage to $15 an hour would boost the pay for 17 million workers. But, says CBO, it would also cause a median 1.3 million employees to lose their jobs as employers can’t afford the wage — that’s a 0.8% reduction of the number of employed workers.

CBO says that if the federal minimum wage were raised to $15 an hour, there is a 66% chance that between none and 3.7 million people could lose their jobs. However, the report states, “there is considerable uncertainty about the size of any option’s effect on employment.”

$15 minimum wage would boost pay for 17 million workers, says CBO

So many times I hear conservatives make the ridiculous claim that if the minimum wage was raised a few buck an hour, the cost of everything would skyrocket. It comes from such a place of ignorance. And yes, prices would rise but we are talking cents on the dollar and people would have a few extra hundred bucks to spend each month.

Yes, some low skilled workers would benefit with more income.
Some low skilled workers would end up with no income.
Some prices would increase.
The employed would have more to spend. The unemployed would have less to spend.
Their employers would have less to spend.

Actual economics matter. Jobs would be lost initially, but over time the boost to consumer spending would CREATE jobs.

Increased spending? From the loss of up to 3.7 million jobs?

Uh yeah. Over time, a few hundred bucks a month for 17 million workers would create economic gains.

Baloney. Giving workers more money, just because it makes you feel better, doesn't magically increase GDP.
If it doesn't increase GDP, you're just moving money around, not adding money to the economy.

Lol this is a consumer based economy you idiot. Of course it would increase GDP. That’s capitalism.

Newly unemployed low skilled workers consume less.
Never employed low skilled workers consume less.
Businesses with less profit consume less.

Keep demonstrating your stage one thinking. As if I needed more proof of your ignorance.

 

[Billy000]

So many times I hear conservatives make the ridiculous claim that if the minimum wage was raised a few buck an hour, the cost of everything would skyrocket. It comes from such a place of ignorance. And yes, prices would rise but we are talking cents on the dollar and people would have a few extra hundred bucks to spend each month.

Actual economics matter. Jobs would be lost initially, but over time the boost to consumer spending would CREATE jobs. The cost of jobs is worth the benefits.

“A new report from the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) has evaluated the impact of raising the federal minimum wage to $15, $12, or $10 per hour by 2025. According to CBO estimates, raising the minimum wage to $15 an hour would boost the pay for 17 million workers. But, says CBO, it would also cause a median 1.3 million employees to lose their jobs as employers can’t afford the wage — that’s a 0.8% reduction of the number of employed workers.

CBO says that if the federal minimum wage were raised to $15 an hour, there is a 66% chance that between none and 3.7 million people could lose their jobs. However, the report states, “there is considerable uncertainty about the size of any option’s effect on employment.”

$15 minimum wage would boost pay for 17 million workers, says CBO

So many times I hear conservatives make the ridiculous claim that if the minimum wage was raised a few buck an hour, the cost of everything would skyrocket. It comes from such a place of ignorance. And yes, prices would rise but we are talking cents on the dollar and people would have a few extra hundred bucks to spend each month.

Yes, some low skilled workers would benefit with more income.
Some low skilled workers would end up with no income.
Some prices would increase.
The employed would have more to spend. The unemployed would have less to spend.
Their employers would have less to spend.

Actual economics matter. Jobs would be lost initially, but over time the boost to consumer spending would CREATE jobs.

Increased spending? From the loss of up to 3.7 million jobs?

Uh yeah. Over time, a few hundred bucks a month for 17 million workers would create economic gains.

Baloney. Giving workers more money, just because it makes you feel better, doesn't magically increase GDP.
If it doesn't increase GDP, you're just moving money around, not adding money to the economy.

Lol this is a consumer based economy you idiot. Of course it would increase GDP. That’s capitalism.

Newly unemployed low skilled workers consume less.
Never employed low skilled workers consume less.
Businesses with less profit consume less.

Keep demonstrating your stage one thinking. As if I needed more proof of your ignorance.

Yeah no shit. We are talking about a median of 1.5 million in estimated loss of jobs though. That doesn’t somehow translate to a stagnant economy. It’s a minor setback, but in the mean time 17 million more workers are spending hundreds of dollars more per month. Over time, this boost to consumer spending will generate more GDP and will easily pay for the loss of capital and then some.

The reason why wages are stagnant and way behind on the cost of inflation isn’t because businesses can’t afford it. These businesses refuse to pay above the bare minimum because it maximizes their profit. You do get that right? Unfettered capitalism results in the exploitation of the workers. That is the fundamental flaw in a private market system.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

A congressional committee (Maxine's) just questioned Powell. One asked, "would the $15/hr minimum wage help or hurt the US economy". Powell declined to answer, and said that was congress' decision. IMHO the minimum wage should be a state decision based on Federal guidance, such as:
1. Heads of households should have a "phased in" $15/hr minimum wage, phased in over 2 or 3 years.
2. Non-heads of households should have a $10 or $12 minimum wage, also phased in over 2 or 3 years.
3. If any employees qualify for government assistance, it needs to be reported to the IRS. (the government should not be subsidizing any business)

That would give businesses time to adjust their financial planning. The problem to be addressed is income inequality. The top tax rate needs to increase to cover the budget deficit and the entitlements and healthcare for retirees.

Heads of households should have a "phased in" $15/hr minimum wage, phased in over 2 or 3 years.

Bad idea.

Non-heads of households should have a $10 or $12 minimum wage, also phased in over 2 or 3 years.

Makes your first bad idea even worse.

If any employees qualify for government assistance, it needs to be reported to the IRS. (the government should not be subsidizing any business)

If the government gives benefits to an unskilled or low skilled worker, how is that a subsidy to the business?

The problem to be addressed is income inequality.

Why is that a problem? Why do you feel the government has the power or the ability to fix it?

If you look at the wealth distribution over time (chart below), the bottom 95% or so lose wealth and the top 5% or so gain wealth. IMHO the US needs a strong and healthy middle-class. If we devolve into the 1% of super-rich and the rest of us as peons, that society will fail.
a. You say min wages are a "bad idea" but don't say why. Job loses (1% -3%) are acceptable for non-heads of households.
b. Every job should provide a living wage, or we are peon drones, no worker should ever qualify for food stamps or welfare. (Even welfare recipients should work for their checks, like the WPA in the 1930s)
c. The Commerce Clause gives the government the power to regulate business. The government needs to work with business to prepare the work-force for productive work. I support free Community College with job training that lands good jobs, (like Germany). How will robotics and artificial intelligence affect the work-force?

Policies to reduce economic inequality

1. Increase the minimum wage.
2. Expand the Earned Income Tax Credit
3. Build assets for working families, like affordable housing
4. Invest in education, like free Community College and job training for real jobs (not worthless degrees with massive student loan debt)
5. Make the tax code more progressive, raise the top tax rate, add a VAT if needed to balance budget

View attachment 268615

You say min wages are a "bad idea" but don't say why.

If you add $10/hour of value but the government mandates you receive $15/hour, will you ever get hired?

Every job should provide a living wage,

How large a home should the guy sweeping the floors be able to buy?
The 18 year old running the fry basket......what type of Corvette should he be able to afford?

The government needs to work with business to prepare the work-force for productive work.

Sure. By pricing the inexperienced out of that first job....wait, what?

I support free Community College with job training that lands good jobs, (like Germany).

Maybe the teachers can all be the people you priced out of private sector work?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

So many times I hear conservatives make the ridiculous claim that if the minimum wage was raised a few buck an hour, the cost of everything would skyrocket. It comes from such a place of ignorance. And yes, prices would rise but we are talking cents on the dollar and people would have a few extra hundred bucks to spend each month.

Yes, some low skilled workers would benefit with more income.
Some low skilled workers would end up with no income.
Some prices would increase.
The employed would have more to spend. The unemployed would have less to spend.
Their employers would have less to spend.

Actual economics matter. Jobs would be lost initially, but over time the boost to consumer spending would CREATE jobs.

Increased spending? From the loss of up to 3.7 million jobs?

Uh yeah. Over time, a few hundred bucks a month for 17 million workers would create economic gains.

Baloney. Giving workers more money, just because it makes you feel better, doesn't magically increase GDP.
If it doesn't increase GDP, you're just moving money around, not adding money to the economy.

Lol this is a consumer based economy you idiot. Of course it would increase GDP. That’s capitalism.

Newly unemployed low skilled workers consume less.
Never employed low skilled workers consume less.
Businesses with less profit consume less.

Keep demonstrating your stage one thinking. As if I needed more proof of your ignorance.

Yeah no shit. We are talking about a median of 1.5 million in estimated loss of jobs though. That doesn’t somehow translate to a stagnant economy. It’s a minor setback, but in the mean time 17 million more workers are spending hundreds of dollars more per month. Over time, this boost to consumer spending will generate more GDP and will easily pay for the loss of capital and then some.

The reason why wages are stagnant and way behind on the cost of inflation isn’t because businesses can’t afford it. These businesses refuse to pay above the bare minimum because it maximizes their profit. You do get that right? Unfettered capitalism results in the exploitation of the workers. That is the fundamental flaw in a private market system.

We are talking about a median of 1.5 million in estimated loss of jobs though.

That's the immediate loss. Now what about the loss of the new entrants to the work force who you've forever priced out of a job?

It’s a minor setback,

That hits minority teens the hardest.

but in the mean time 17 million more workers are spending hundreds of dollars more per month.

Where did they get this extra money? Be specific.

Over time, this boost to consumer spending will generate more GDP and will easily pay for the loss of capital and then some.

You've already shown your economic ignorance, no need to repeat it.

These businesses refuse to pay above the bare minimum because it maximizes their profit.

When you have an endless flood of low skilled illegals, what's the need to pay low skilled workers above the bare minimum?

 

[blackhawk]

What many on the left fail to understand is this is not a one size fits all world. In some areas of country a 15 dollar an hour minimum will have little negative impact and be a benefit in others it will be devastating.

This report disputes exactly what you are saying.

What many on the left fail to understand is this is not a one size fits all world. In some areas of country a 15 dollar an hour minimum will have little negative impact and be a benefit in others it will be devastating.

This report disputes exactly what you are saying.

The report says the impact would be the exact same across the entire country bullshit. Only people very naive stupid or both would buy that.

These people are economists. You are not. You are uneducated in economics. The estimate of job loss has those more vulnerable areas in mind.

You have no idea what I’m educated in the only thing you seem to be educated in is partisan BS. The CBO gives estimates and opinions and have been wrong before I have also seen you lefties be dismissive of and reject the CBO when they put out something that doesn’t support your narrative. I take the CBO for what it is and don’t accept what they put out as the gospel truth no matter which political narrative benefits from it.

No entity predicting economics is always 100% correct. You’re pretending you know more about economics than the CBO does and that’s stupid. Obviously you aren’t wrong that a flat min wage hike nationwide would hit some areas worse than others, but that is something the report takes into account.

What I’m saying is I don’t take what any economist say at face value. It was at least some economists who were telling us the election of Donald Trump would cause an economic disaster worse than the Great Depression that has not happened many if not all economists didn’t see the housing collapse and economic meltdown of 2008 coming. I take anything any so called experts in any field say with a degree of skepticism something any wise person no matter what their political leanings are would do.

 

[Indeependent]

So many times I hear conservatives make the ridiculous claim that if the minimum wage was raised a few buck an hour, the cost of everything would skyrocket. It comes from such a place of ignorance. And yes, prices would rise but we are talking cents on the dollar and people would have a few extra hundred bucks to spend each month.

Actual economics matter. Jobs would be lost initially, but over time the boost to consumer spending would CREATE jobs. The cost of jobs is worth the benefits.

“A new report from the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) has evaluated the impact of raising the federal minimum wage to $15, $12, or $10 per hour by 2025. According to CBO estimates, raising the minimum wage to $15 an hour would boost the pay for 17 million workers. But, says CBO, it would also cause a median 1.3 million employees to lose their jobs as employers can’t afford the wage — that’s a 0.8% reduction of the number of employed workers.

CBO says that if the federal minimum wage were raised to $15 an hour, there is a 66% chance that between none and 3.7 million people could lose their jobs. However, the report states, “there is considerable uncertainty about the size of any option’s effect on employment.”

$15 minimum wage would boost pay for 17 million workers, says CBO

Alternative...
Reverse Off-Shoring
Eliminate Business Visas
Eliminate Trespassers

Adds millions of job and career opportunities.

 

[Billy000]

Uh yeah. Over time, a few hundred bucks a month for 17 million workers would create economic gains.

Baloney. Giving workers more money, just because it makes you feel better, doesn't magically increase GDP.
If it doesn't increase GDP, you're just moving money around, not adding money to the economy.

Lol this is a consumer based economy you idiot. Of course it would increase GDP. That’s capitalism.

Newly unemployed low skilled workers consume less.
Never employed low skilled workers consume less.
Businesses with less profit consume less.

Keep demonstrating your stage one thinking. As if I needed more proof of your ignorance.

Yeah no shit. We are talking about a median of 1.5 million in estimated loss of jobs though. That doesn’t somehow translate to a stagnant economy. It’s a minor setback, but in the mean time 17 million more workers are spending hundreds of dollars more per month. Over time, this boost to consumer spending will generate more GDP and will easily pay for the loss of capital and then some.

The reason why wages are stagnant and way behind on the cost of inflation isn’t because businesses can’t afford it. These businesses refuse to pay above the bare minimum because it maximizes their profit. You do get that right? Unfettered capitalism results in the exploitation of the workers. That is the fundamental flaw in a private market system.

We are talking about a median of 1.5 million in estimated loss of jobs though.

That's the immediate loss. Now what about the loss of the new entrants to the work force who you've forever priced out of a job?

It’s a minor setback,

That hits minority teens the hardest.

but in the mean time 17 million more workers are spending hundreds of dollars more per month.

Where did they get this extra money? Be specific.

Over time, this boost to consumer spending will generate more GDP and will easily pay for the loss of capital and then some.

You've already shown your economic ignorance, no need to repeat it.

These businesses refuse to pay above the bare minimum because it maximizes their profit.

When you have an endless flood of low skilled illegals, what's the need to pay low skilled workers above the bare minimum?

Immediate loss? Um no. That would be over time.

Minority teens? Um okay.

Where did they get the extra money? Are you this dense? It’s in their paychecks that are now bigger. Good god. Do you just argue for the sake of arguing?

Christ. Illegals or not, businesses will pay as low as they can get away with to maximize their profits.

 

[kyzr]

A congressional committee (Maxine's) just questioned Powell. One asked, "would the $15/hr minimum wage help or hurt the US economy". Powell declined to answer, and said that was congress' decision. IMHO the minimum wage should be a state decision based on Federal guidance, such as:
1. Heads of households should have a "phased in" $15/hr minimum wage, phased in over 2 or 3 years.
2. Non-heads of households should have a $10 or $12 minimum wage, also phased in over 2 or 3 years.
3. If any employees qualify for government assistance, it needs to be reported to the IRS. (the government should not be subsidizing any business)

That would give businesses time to adjust their financial planning. The problem to be addressed is income inequality. The top tax rate needs to increase to cover the budget deficit and the entitlements and healthcare for retirees.

Heads of households should have a "phased in" $15/hr minimum wage, phased in over 2 or 3 years. Bad idea.
Non-heads of households should have a $10 or $12 minimum wage, also phased in over 2 or 3 years. Makes your first bad idea even worse.
If any employees qualify for government assistance, it needs to be reported to the IRS. (the government should not be subsidizing any business) If the government gives benefits to an unskilled or low skilled worker, how is that a subsidy to the business?
The problem to be addressed is income inequality.
Why is that a problem? Why do you feel the government has the power or the ability to fix it?

If you look at the wealth distribution over time (chart below), the bottom 95% or so lose wealth and the top 5% or so gain wealth. IMHO the US needs a strong and healthy middle-class. If we devolve into the 1% of super-rich and the rest of us as peons, that society will fail.
a. You say min wages are a "bad idea" but don't say why. Job loses (1% -3%) are acceptable for non-heads of households.
b. Every job should provide a living wage, or we are peon drones, no worker should ever qualify for food stamps or welfare. (Even welfare recipients should work for their checks, like the WPA in the 1930s)
c. The Commerce Clause gives the government the power to regulate business. The government needs to work with business to prepare the work-force for productive work. I support free Community College with job training that lands good jobs, (like Germany). How will robotics and artificial intelligence affect the work-force?

Policies to reduce economic inequality

1. Increase the minimum wage.
2. Expand the Earned Income Tax Credit
3. Build assets for working families, like affordable housing
4. Invest in education, like free Community College and job training for real jobs (not worthless degrees with massive student loan debt)
5. Make the tax code more progressive, raise the top tax rate, add a VAT if needed to balance budget

You say min wages are a "bad idea" but don't say why.

If you add $10/hour of value but the government mandates you receive $15/hour, will you ever get hired?

Every job should provide a living wage,

How large a home should the guy sweeping the floors be able to buy?
The 18 year old running the fry basket......what type of Corvette should he be able to afford?

The government needs to work with business to prepare the work-force for productive work.

Sure. By pricing the inexperienced out of that first job....wait, what?

I support free Community College with job training that lands good jobs, (like Germany).

Maybe the teachers can all be the people you priced out of private sector work?

a. The government mandates Davis-Bacon wage rates now for Federal jobs. The workers benefited, nothing bad happened, the budgets handle the wage rates. Its called planning, and budgeting. A better argument might be "without tariffs, how can US companies compete with the low overseas wage rates?" More jobs and factories would move overseas. You either hire workers, or you don't
b. How many more $billions do the top 1% need to feel human? In 1950 the average CEO pay was about 20x the average worker. Today that multiple is 361. Why are CEOs compensated so much more than their workers? Are they worth it? Not always.
CEO Pay Skyrockets To 361 Times That Of The Average Worker
c. Stop being stupid. Matching job skills, training, and even education with the jobs that are available or projected is better than what we have now. Free Community College would make workers more valuable by getting specific job training. That will help them land their first job more than a useless college degree (Art-History, Gender Studies, Fashion Design, Music, Communications, Liberal Arts, Fine Arts, etc.)
d. There may be a glut of useless teachers to deal with, maybe they'd need re-training to stay useful. Either way, they'd be well compensated.

 

[toobfreak]

So many times I hear conservatives make the ridiculous claim that if the minimum wage was raised a few buck an hour, the cost of everything would skyrocket. It comes from such a place of ignorance. And yes, prices would rise but we are talking cents on the dollar and people would have a few extra hundred bucks to spend each month.

Actual economics matter. Jobs would be lost initially, but over time the boost to consumer spending would CREATE jobs. The cost of jobs is worth the benefits.

“A new report from the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) has evaluated the impact of raising the federal minimum wage to $15, $12, or $10 per hour by 2025. According to CBO estimates, raising the minimum wage to $15 an hour would boost the pay for 17 million workers. But, says CBO, it would also cause a median 1.3 million employees to lose their jobs as employers can’t afford the wage — that’s a 0.8% reduction of the number of employed workers.

CBO says that if the federal minimum wage were raised to $15 an hour, there is a 66% chance that between none and 3.7 million people could lose their jobs. However, the report states, “there is considerable uncertainty about the size of any option’s effect on employment.”

$15 minimum wage would boost pay for 17 million workers, says CBO

I'm sorry, remind me again WHERE in the Constitution it stipulates that it is the job of the Fed to dictate to states how much or how little private business can pay for a given job? I forget just which Article that came under.

That would be in article 1, section 8, clause 3.

It's called the commerce clause.

It gives the government the power to regulate business.

You might want to actually read the constitution. That way you wouldn't make fool of yourself to all of us who have actually read that document.

Dear Dumbass:

"To regulate commerce within foreign nations, and AMONG the several states and with the Indian Tribes."

Nothing in there about telling individual private businesses what they have to pay an employee to work.