The Borgen Project ~ The Poor and Ovepopulation

[Beachboy]

Poverty and Overpopulation - The Borgen Project

Less Poverty =
Less Overpopulation

• The higher the death rate for children in a region, the higher the birthrate… When people know their children will survive, they have few children. Addressing global poverty and keeping children alive is crucial for reducing overpopulation.
• The UN projects the population of the 48 poorest countries in the world will double from 850 million in 2010 to 1.7 billion in 2050.
  (Population Institute)
• Today, more than 200 million women in developing countries who don’t want to get pregnant lack access to contraceptives. This is a life and death crisis. Complications in pregnancy and childbirth are a leading cause of death for women in Africa.
• Poverty and the lack of access to education leads to higher birthrates and overpopulation.

 

[Beachboy]

Without a doubt poverty is one of the worst plights on earth. I understand that death from starvation feels much like drinking a quart of bleach. What an awful way to die.

I understand that the tenth largest Roman Catholic country on the planet, Brazil, has in recent years begun to teach birth control in the schools, but most of the world is not even discussing the subject. Clearly, something must resolve poverty before 2050 because we already know that climate change will impact the globe seriously by then, and overpopulation will make the situation worse. We earthlings need to realize that we are all in this together, and come up with a plan.

 

[bendog]

We need to stop these white 'Merican women from getting abortions, and that morning after pill thing, before we bring Jesus to Africaland. (-:

 

[Beachboy]

We need to stop these white 'Merican women from getting abortions, and that morning after pill thing, before we bring Jesus to Africaland. (-:

I guess my question would have to be the population of America has fewer children because they know the chances are good the child will live through its early years. In countries, such as Africa, there is not medical care available, so most of the children die ~ often of starvation.

Consider this, if a third world woman has six children what will be their quality of life compared to an American child that will have good health care, education, and opportunity? As the Borgen Project pointed out the people who should cut back on children are the ones who live a life at the bottom of the food chain.

I support abortion on one simple ground. We do not want to force someone into parenthood, not only because it is the woman's right to choose, but because having a baby you don't want would lead to bad parenting and a broken child. We have enough dysfunctional families on our planet as it is.

Forcing a limit on children the way China does may appear to be the solution, but it runs against the very fiber of America to promote it. Let alone to do so in a third world country would appear as a racist disaster. I can hear the word "Nazi" already. I don't think that is the way to go.

 

[koshergrl]

You're on the right track, but you're getting lost in the details.

In areas where people are at risk of disappearing off the face of the earth, the birth rate is astronomical...that is what happens in any threatened species on earth. They attempt to compensate by having more offspring, in order to increase the chances that children will survive. More children INCREASES the chance for surivival..it doesn't decrease it.

So the idea that abortion on demand (or enforced) upon populations that are being wiped out by fascist governments is ridiculous. Hitler understood...if you have a population that you want to die...you legalize abortion and tell them it's good for them. If you want a population to thrive, you make it socially unacceptable to abort.

 

[bodecea]

The best birth control is educated women treated equally politically and economically.

 

[koshergrl]

That's true! So instead of trying to plant abortion clinics in the middle of African hell holes, work on educating them and eliminating fascist governments.

Good on ya, bode! You managed to get it right! I know it was an accident, but still...

 

[Beachboy]

You're on the right track, but you're getting lost in the details.

In areas where people are at risk of disappearing off the face of the earth, the birth rate is astronomical...that is what happens in any threatened species on earth. They attempt to compensate by having more offspring, in order to increase the chances that children will survive. More children INCREASES the chance for surivival..it doesn't decrease it.

So the idea that abortion on demand (or enforced) upon populations that are being wiped out by fascist governments is ridiculous. Hitler understood...if you have a population that you want to die...you legalize abortion and tell them it's good for them. If you want a population to thrive, you make it socially unacceptable to abort.

Interesting, something I would like to know more about. I Googled 'Hitler and Overpopulion' and read the first ten websites. https://www.google.com/search?q=hitler+and+overpopulation&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-USfficial&client=firefox

All were blogs with axes to grind on both sides of the issue. I learned nothing.
https://www.google.com/search?q=hit...s=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

 

[get_involved]

We split the atom and won WW2 with half the population as we have today. We put a man on the moon with 100-million less people than we have today.

 

[Beachboy]

That's true! So instead of trying to plant abortion clinics in the middle of African hell holes, work on educating them and eliminating fascist governments.

Good on ya, bode! You managed to get it right! I know it was an accident, but still...

That all sounds well and good, but frankly I am tired of risking American lives and throwing taxpayer cash at problems that are really none of our business.

Look at Syria, over 100,000 dead in that awful Civil War. Everyone has been trying to drag the United States into it for support in the name of humanitarian democracy. When we go it will be just like Viet Nam. The United States will end up the bad guys.

I don't know about abortion clinics being an answer to poverty and overpopulation, but elimination of fascist governments, forget it. America secured its democracy basically on its own with some help from France. Egypt changed their government basically with the help of the internet. Countries who want to be free are going to have to work it out on their own like the United States did. Why should we take risks for countries that end up hating us?

 

[koshergrl]

Yes, well, if you refuse to address the issue, what you are saying is that populations that are already being targeted need to just be eliminated for their own good.

Same old same old.

 

[Beachboy]

Yes, well, if you refuse to address the issue, what you are saying is that populations that are already being targeted need to just be eliminated for their own good.

Same old same old.

Not so, here is what I said.

I don't know about abortion clinics being an answer to poverty and overpopulation, but elimination of fascist governments, forget it. America secured its democracy basically on its own with some help from France. Egypt changed their government basically with the help of the internet. Countries who want to be free are going to have to work it out on their own like the United States did. Why should we take risks for countries that end up hating us?

I do not have any answers here that I am advocating to resolve the continued overpopulation of the planet, as more and more people face a life with no quality of life in site. I have pointed to the methods of Adolph Hitler as unacceptable to me. I also have a moral question about how China is attempting to reduce births ~ which by the way is none of my damn business.

I made this OP because I am looking for answers from USMB members here. Google was of little help which tells me that world leaders have not come up with a solution to overpopulation.

Allow me to add that if I had reason to believe that the best my son could get out of life was a career washing dishes, I would not have a child. The actions of the third world would seem to indicate they are not even giving the question consideration, they just keep cranking the babies out, and they, not I, will have to live with the consequences.

The problem of overpopulation will not personally effect me in Pacific Palisades, California. But, just because I will probably never be faced with the consequences of overpopulation, does not mean I do not care. Overpopulation is a real threat to the environment on planet Earth. We need to come up with the best solutions we can find, implement them, and stop doing nothing.

 

[Beachboy]

Here is a map of fertility rates by country. We can easily spot the nations that are overpopulating. The average number of children per family, per country is at the left of the graphic.

So, what do we do, nothing? Shall we let future generations figure things out? That is sloppy by anyone's standards.

population explosion: Definition from Answers.com

As of March 10, 2013 the world's human population is estimated to be 7.071 billion by the United States Census Bureau,[3] and over 7 billion by the United Nations.[4][5][6] Most contemporary estimates for the carrying capacity of the Earth under existing conditions are between 4 billion and 16 billion. Depending on which estimate is used, human overpopulation may or may not have already occurred. Nevertheless, the rapid recent increase in human population is causing some concern. The population is expected to reach between 8 and 10.5 billion between the year 2040 and 2050.

Again, I must agree this is a very unsettling issue. Difficult decisions will have to be made by someone sooner or later, otherwise the decision will be made by nature. The last time the overpopulation situation was resolved by the black plague, (1348 - 1350), and 200,000,000 may have died. Black Death - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia I don't think anyone wants to see that, and the underdeveloped countries will be hit first, and hardest.

Without treatment, the bubonic plague kills about two thirds of infected humans within 4 days. Bubonic plague - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Do you think we can prepare antibiotics for 7 billion people and deliver them around the planet in four days? Then there is always the question of who will pay for such a giant enterprise. Someone is going to lose here, and once again it will probably be the poor.

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[koshergrl]

We need to eliminate all poor africans, obviously. They're having too many kids and they're going to unbalance the earth.

Of course, most of their kids die..but that's neither nere nor there...they need to stop breeding! There's too many of them! They're infecting mother Earth and choking out .... lions and elephants!

 

[Beachboy]

We need to eliminate all poor africans, obviously. They're having too many kids and they're going to unbalance the earth.

Of course, most of their kids die..but that's neither nere nor there...they need to stop breeding! There's too many of them! They're infecting mother Earth and choking out .... lions and elephants!

Obviously no one wants to go that route, but which way would you prefer to die, bubonic plague in four days, or starvation in a couple of weeks?

I agree this is tragic, but is also the way of mother nature. Don't shoot the messenger, I am the guy who posted this OP in hopes some ideas would develop.

You see this is where the rubber hits the road, who makes these decisions? If humans don't take action nature will. As an Independent voter this is where I lose the liberals. The concept of "Everything for everyone" does not work on a planet with limited resources. This is where liberals usually leave the "decision-making table." They can not make these choices. Truth is, none of us can. Whatever we do it will be seriously wrong in someone's opinion.

Conservative Republicans know how to make hard choices. George Bush may have made a lot of bad decisions, but at least he took action. President Obama hums-and-haws with lots of dramatic speech, but what has he really accomplished? I will give him Obamacare which he accomplished while the nation was begging, "Give us jobs."

So, what is it going to be for the impoverished children of Africa? Starve now, or wait for the black death later? Like it or not, disease like the black death is one of nature's ways to cut overpopulation. It truly makes me cry, but I am not going to run and hide from the issue.
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[koshergrl]

Actually, that is exactly the route you are promoting. Population control of the most *overpopulated* areas...which happen to be the populations that are already targeted for destruction. You aren't interested in providing them with liberty, or addressing the regimes that are starving them...so you propose controlling their breeding to bring it within the *normal* range.

Which of course will lead to their utter and complete eradication. They have 8 children per family because their children don't survive to adulthood. Their children don't survive to adulthood because they are brutalized and starved by fascist governments and their representatives.

 

[koshergrl]

What are you even talking about? No, I'm not a liberal. I have contributed...you don't save the human population by limiting the procreation of those populations that are at highest risk of being obliterated. I maintain that it isn't a population problem at all..our problems don't exist because of the number of people on the planet. Our problems exist because there are people who TARGET certain populations on the planet, and work to eliminate them. They do that via oppression and human rights violations, and by restricting the liberty of those people to move as needed to survive...and restricting their ability to survive where they are by refusing them access to food that the rest of the world has access to.

You address THAT and you'll address the problems of hunger and child mortality. Nowhere in the world has restrictive reproduction policies ever decreased hunger, or made it safer for children. China is a PERFECT example.

 

[Beachboy]

Actually, that is exactly the route you are promoting. Population control of the most *overpopulated* areas...which happen to be the populations that are already targeted for destruction. You aren't interested in providing them with liberty, or addressing the regimes that are starving them...so you propose controlling their breeding to bring it within the *normal* range.

Which of course will lead to their utter and complete eradication. They have 8 children per family because their children don't survive to adulthood. Their children don't survive to adulthood because they are brutalized and starved by fascist governments and their representatives.

I reviewed several links and graphics before I made post #15. This seemed like the most comprehensive link I could find. I ask for your link, or better representation of the facts. As a businessperson, I believe we should make decisions based upon all the facts. If you have more facts to offer, I would sincerely welcome them. Again, I have no solutions to offer on this issue, only concern and questions.

I don't know your politics, but if you are a liberal, please do not walk away wringing your hands. Please address the issue as an adult. If the rest of us work on this, and come to solution, I do not want to hear you complain if you do not contribute. Frankly, this is why our country runs like it does, and few are listening to impractical liberals or conservatives. Remember that old line from somewhere, "If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem.

Overpopulation could be planet Earth's "Titanic Issue," and once again
there are not enough lifeboats. Have we learned anything?​

 

[Beachboy]

The OP

Poverty and Overpopulation - The Borgen Project

Less Poverty =
Less Overpopulation

• The higher the death rate for children in a region, the higher the birthrate… When people know their children will survive, they have few children. Addressing global poverty and keeping children alive is crucial for reducing overpopulation.
• The UN projects the population of the 48 poorest countries in the world will double from 850 million in 2010 to 1.7 billion in 2050.
  (Population Institute)
• Today, more than 200 million women in developing countries who don’t want to get pregnant lack access to contraceptives. This is a life and death crisis. Complications in pregnancy and childbirth are a leading cause of death for women in Africa.
• Poverty and the lack of access to education leads to higher birthrates and overpopulation.

 

[koshergrl]

So you propose just allowing them to be destroyed, because if they're dead, all suffering in the world will end, people will no longer be targeted for obliteration, and the earth will be Happy.

You're an idiot. I'm sorry. You really are.