Tesla Motors' Success Gives Electric Car Market a Charge

[KissMy]

"free recharging stations" are you kidding? I guess the electricity just self generates and shows up at the charging station someone is paying for them, how much of the purchase price is for the "free" charges?

but how about doing a more detailed calculation including the purchase price of the vehicles, maintenance, refueling, etc over a 5 year period? Oh, and you better include the EPA fee for disposing of the hazardous waste battery when it wears out.

The free charging stations are solar powered. Their free lifetime charging cost are included in the price of the car. So are the cost of the lifetime battery warranty & recycling. Also free on the spot loaner car & towing transport for warranty work.

 

[Redfish]

diesel-electrics have been around for a long time

trains have diesel generators that in turn power electric motors

So do many ships. Diesel electric means you have a diesel engine driving a generator that sends electricity to an electric motor that drives the wheels or propeller. The reason they are used in ships and trains is that it eliminates the need for a transmission and propeller shaft. It saves weight, but the system still relies on an internal combustion engine to make it work.

Its because the electric motor has more tourque (at low speeds) translated to horse power. an example

Matching Power

nternal Combustion Engines Where satisfactory electrical power is not available, or when a pump unit is moved to various locations, it is common practice to drive the pump with an internal combustion engine (diesel, gasoline, LPG, natural gas, etc.).

more........

When a mixture of fuel and air is burned inside an internal combustion engine, chemical energy is converted into power. The combustion process produces a twisting effect, called torque, at the engine shaft, causing it to rotate. The amount of torque being produced is combined with the rotating speed of the engine shaft to produce horsepower (BHP).
For a given operating point, if the BHP required by the
pump is greater than the BHP that can be produced by the engine at that RPM, the pump and engine set will simply slow down

yes, but the basic reason is to reduce weight by eliminating the transmission and propeller shaft

 

[Old Rocks]

Because of the inherent inefficienies of the Carnot cycle, an electric car getting its electricity from a coal burning generator will put less CO2 into the air than one using petrol. And, again, the efficiency of having one's own source of fuel, solar, will play a big factor in people buying these vehicles.

As far as the present cost of the battery goes, that will come down as the technology improves.

Don't use physics, it's way over his head. These idiots believe a 25% efficient gasoline, natural gas or diesel ICE car engine is better than a 90+% efficient natural gas or coal power plant that can recharge 3 cars on the same fuel. Plus we can charge them with the excessive overnight wind generated energy that gets dumped every night. Once we have a huge fleet of all electric or hybrid electric vehicles, they can be powered by any cheap energy source on the planet. Freedom is not being held hostage by gasoline only powered cars, supporting terrorist, foreign dictators & the rising price of gasoline.

Tesla goes 300+ miles on a charge. "95% of trips are less than 30 miles a day. More astonishingly, around 98 percent of all single-trip journeys were under 50 miles in length, with trips over 70 miles in length accounting for just one percent of all single-trip journeys." Tesla will recharge for free on the road in 30 minutes to go another 150 miles or 1 hour to go 300 miles.

OK, then do the math for me. lets say you drive 30 miles a day and to make it easy lets say that your ICE car gets 30 mph. OK? lets say gas costs $3/gallon. Ok so far? that means you spend $3 /day to get around.

Now, do the same calculations with your electric. what will it cost to top off the charge each night using current KWH power rates? $3 ? I think not.

You are correct. It will not cost $3. It will cost less than $1. Not only that, if you have grid parallel solar, it will cost you nothing. The measured equivelent of most EV is about 110 MPG.
Time Of Use: Pricing | PGE


Time period

Definition

Price per kWh*



On-peak

Demand for electricity is high.
You pay the highest price per kilowatt-hour. Price is higher than basic service.

13.266¢/kWh*



Mid-peak

Demand for electricity is between on-peak and off-peak.

7.500¢/kWh



Off-peak

Demand for electricity is the lowest.
You pay the lowest price per kilowatt-hour. Price is lower than basic service. Sundays are considered off-peak, as are select holidays, including New Year’s Day, Memorial Day, Independence Day, Labor Day, Thanksgiving and Christmas.

4.422¢/kWh*

So you charge your Tesla S at night. 7.5 cents kWH. 85 kWH battery. $6.38 for 300 miles of driving. But maybe you charge it on peak hours. $11.28 for a three hundred mile fillup. Damn, wish I could do that on my van.

Someday, Redfish, you might wish to take a basic third grade class in math.

 

[Wyatt earp]

So do many ships. Diesel electric means you have a diesel engine driving a generator that sends electricity to an electric motor that drives the wheels or propeller. The reason they are used in ships and trains is that it eliminates the need for a transmission and propeller shaft. It saves weight, but the system still relies on an internal combustion engine to make it work.

Its because the electric motor has more tourque (at low speeds) translated to horse power. an example

Matching Power





more........

When a mixture of fuel and air is burned inside an internal combustion engine, chemical energy is converted into power. The combustion process produces a twisting effect, called torque, at the engine shaft, causing it to rotate. The amount of torque being produced is combined with the rotating speed of the engine shaft to produce horsepower (BHP).
For a given operating point, if the BHP required by the
pump is greater than the BHP that can be produced by the engine at that RPM, the pump and engine set will simply slow down

yes, but the basic reason is to reduce weight by eliminating the transmission and propeller shaft

Not really true..... The first train engines were the Steam engine and has close to the horse power and torque as electric motors (dont quote me on that, but I know steam engines were powerful). When diesel's came out they couldnt compete witht the steam engine, So they got rid of the transmission, ran them at full power and controled the speed using electric motors.

 

[KissMy]

Why would they want to save weight on a locomotive engine? They need more weight for more traction. Just like farmers add weight to their tractors & fill their tires with fluid.

 

[Wyatt earp]

Don't use physics, it's way over his head. These idiots believe a 25% efficient gasoline, natural gas or diesel ICE car engine is better than a 90+% efficient natural gas or coal power plant that can recharge 3 cars on the same fuel. Plus we can charge them with the excessive overnight wind generated energy that gets dumped every night. Once we have a huge fleet of all electric or hybrid electric vehicles, they can be powered by any cheap energy source on the planet. Freedom is not being held hostage by gasoline only powered cars, supporting terrorist, foreign dictators & the rising price of gasoline.

Tesla goes 300+ miles on a charge. "95% of trips are less than 30 miles a day. More astonishingly, around 98 percent of all single-trip journeys were under 50 miles in length, with trips over 70 miles in length accounting for just one percent of all single-trip journeys." Tesla will recharge for free on the road in 30 minutes to go another 150 miles or 1 hour to go 300 miles.

OK, then do the math for me. lets say you drive 30 miles a day and to make it easy lets say that your ICE car gets 30 mph. OK? lets say gas costs $3/gallon. Ok so far? that means you spend $3 /day to get around.

Now, do the same calculations with your electric. what will it cost to top off the charge each night using current KWH power rates? $3 ? I think not.

You are correct. It will not cost $3. It will cost less than $1. Not only that, if you have grid parallel solar, it will cost you nothing. The measured equivelent of most EV is about 110 MPG.
Time Of Use: Pricing | PGE


Time period

Definition

Price per kWh*



On-peak

Demand for electricity is high.
You pay the highest price per kilowatt-hour. Price is higher than basic service.

13.266¢/kWh*



Mid-peak

Demand for electricity is between on-peak and off-peak.

7.500¢/kWh



Off-peak

Demand for electricity is the lowest.
You pay the lowest price per kilowatt-hour. Price is lower than basic service. Sundays are considered off-peak, as are select holidays, including New Year’s Day, Memorial Day, Independence Day, Labor Day, Thanksgiving and Christmas.

4.422¢/kWh*

So you charge your Tesla S at night. 7.5 cents kWH. 85 kWH battery. $6.38 for 300 miles of driving. But maybe you charge it on peak hours. $11.28 for a three hundred mile fillup. Damn, wish I could do that on my van.

Someday, Redfish, you might wish to take a basic third grade class in math.

Your talking today but if everyone is driving battery cars, plugging them in at night, wont the off hours switch to be during the day or at least equall? Btw..I would love to see a traffic jam of the future when the wait is so long everyone runs out of battery juice. That would be hilarious...you couldnt walk 3 miles carrying a car battery on your back. lol

 

[KissMy]

Your talking today but if everyone is driving battery cars, plugging them in at night, wont the off hours switch to be during the day or at least equall? Btw..I would love to see a traffic jam of the future when the wait is so long everyone runs out of battery juice. That would be hilarious...you couldnt walk 3 miles carrying a car battery on your back. lol

Wind mostly generates power at night when demand is low. Wind energy production is completely out of phase with demand. This is where electric cars will shine. Charging at night will absorb all the wasted power that is being spilled off. At 10% installed wind-generation capacity, Texas wind capacity is way over built & spilling off power. Likely 7% is all the useful wind capacity we can achieve unless we can store it in car batteries at night.

 

[Wyatt earp]

An interesting article on one test drive opinion on how the telsa handles cold weather.

Electric Cars Can?t Handle Cold Weather? Myth Busted

 

[Redfish]

"free recharging stations" are you kidding? I guess the electricity just self generates and shows up at the charging station someone is paying for them, how much of the purchase price is for the "free" charges?

but how about doing a more detailed calculation including the purchase price of the vehicles, maintenance, refueling, etc over a 5 year period? Oh, and you better include the EPA fee for disposing of the hazardous waste battery when it wears out.

The free charging stations are solar powered. Their free lifetime charging cost are included in the price of the car. So are the cost of the lifetime battery warranty & recycling. Also free on the spot loaner car & towing transport for warranty work.

so if you need a charge at night or on a cloudy day---------you just sit on your ass and wait---------wow, what a great deal!

 

[Redfish]

Why would they want to save weight on a locomotive engine? They need more weight for more traction. Just like farmers add weight to their tractors & fill their tires with fluid.

the weight comment had to do with ships. on trains eliminating the transmission increases efficiency.

and if pigs had great big wings they could fly. then the farmer could herd them to market with his solar powered plane.

 

[Wyatt earp]

An interesting article on one test drive opinion on how the telsa handles cold weather.

Electric Cars Can?t Handle Cold Weather? Myth Busted

Why would they want to save weight on a locomotive engine? They need more weight for more traction. Just like farmers add weight to their tractors & fill their tires with fluid.

the weight comment had to do with ships. on trains eliminating the transmission increases efficiency.

and if pigs had great big wings they could fly. then the farmer could herd them to market with his solar powered plane.

Holy shit!!!! Lmao.... I dont know how to post pics here but you really should check out this big ass Diesel

World's largest diesel engine makes 109,000 horsepower - Autoblog

 

[Redfish]

An interesting article on one test drive opinion on how the telsa handles cold weather.

Electric Cars Can?t Handle Cold Weather? Myth Busted

Why would they want to save weight on a locomotive engine? They need more weight for more traction. Just like farmers add weight to their tractors & fill their tires with fluid.

the weight comment had to do with ships. on trains eliminating the transmission increases efficiency.

and if pigs had great big wings they could fly. then the farmer could herd them to market with his solar powered plane.

Holy shit!!!! Lmao.... I dont know how to post pics here but you really should check out this big ass Diesel

World's largest diesel engine makes 109,000 horsepower - Autoblog

Yeah the can build big diesels. I don't recall saying big diesels were a problem.

the reason that ships use diesel electric power is to save weight, increase manuverability and eliminate the reduction gears and shaft bearings.

also in military ships its sometimes done to reduce the noise signature of the ship to make it harder to detect by sonar.

This topic has gotten so far off track I think it may be time to close it.

 

[Wyatt earp]

No it hasnt. your just getting mad. because your wrong and I know the electic motor is far superior to the diesel, they didnt get rid of the transmisson in ships to save weight and you know it. They dont have the start up horsepower at low speeds to move that ship, that the electric motor has. provide a link to prove me wrong. please......

 

[Wyatt earp]

An interesting article on one test drive opinion on how the telsa handles cold weather.

Electric Cars Can?t Handle Cold Weather? Myth Busted

the weight comment had to do with ships. on trains eliminating the transmission increases efficiency.

and if pigs had great big wings they could fly. then the farmer could herd them to market with his solar powered plane.

Holy shit!!!! Lmao.... I dont know how to post pics here but you really should check out this big ass Diesel

World's largest diesel engine makes 109,000 horsepower - Autoblog

Yeah the can build big diesels. I don't recall saying big diesels were a problem.

the reason that ships use diesel electric power is to save weight, increase manuverability and eliminate the reduction gears and shaft bearings.

also in military ships its sometimes done to reduce the noise signature of the ship to make it harder to detect by sonar.

This topic has gotten so far off track I think it may be time to close it.

in Subs they just use Diesels to charge the batterys, thats it, for the electric motor.

 

[Redfish]

No it hasnt. your just getting mad. because your wrong and I know the electic motor is far superior to the diesel, they didnt get rid of the transmisson in ships to save weight and you know it. They dont have the start up horsepower at low speeds to move that ship, that the electric motor has. provide a link to prove me wrong. please......

I spent 40 years in the military and commercial ship building industry. I know what I am talking about, you do not.

I explained it in the previous post, do some research. look into why all cruise ships are diesel electric. Weight, manuverabiliy, quietness.

With a diesel the start up is handled by reduction gears or controllable pitch propellers,

 

[Redfish]

Holy shit!!!! Lmao.... I dont know how to post pics here but you really should check out this big ass Diesel

World's largest diesel engine makes 109,000 horsepower - Autoblog

Yeah the can build big diesels. I don't recall saying big diesels were a problem.

the reason that ships use diesel electric power is to save weight, increase manuverability and eliminate the reduction gears and shaft bearings.

also in military ships its sometimes done to reduce the noise signature of the ship to make it harder to detect by sonar.

This topic has gotten so far off track I think it may be time to close it.

in Subs they just use Diesels to charge the batterys, thats it, for the electric motor.

true, did I say otherwise? when was the last diesel electric sub built?

 

[Wyatt earp]

See redfish your dealing with an industrial maintence guy and for the past 30 years I know how powerful electric motors are compared to the todays internal combustion engine. I deal with it every day.

 

[Politico]

in Subs they just use Diesels to charge the batterys, thats it, for the electric motor.

Incorrect.

 

[Wyatt earp]

No it hasnt. your just getting mad. because your wrong and I know the electic motor is far superior to the diesel, they didnt get rid of the transmisson in ships to save weight and you know it. They dont have the start up horsepower at low speeds to move that ship, that the electric motor has. provide a link to prove me wrong. please......

I spent 40 years in the military and commercial ship building industry. I know what I am talking about, you do not.

I explained it in the previous post, do some research. look into why all cruise ships are diesel electric. Weight, manuverabiliy, quietness.

With a diesel the start up is handled by reduction gears or controllable pitch propellers,

I have researched it and I didnt read the thread. but the question remains why is Diesel Electric far superior to Diesel power. its not the Weight? have you ever took apart a transmission ? compared to a electric motor? the answer is obvious if you have.

 

[Wyatt earp]

in Subs they just use Diesels to charge the batterys, thats it, for the electric motor.

Incorrect.

yes its a half right/ half wrong answer.... your getting mad if we talk about the time line of diesel electric subs...