Terrorist Murder In Jerusalem Synagogue

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

It is not "name calling" (gratuitous verbal abuse --- AKA: abusive or insulting language referring to a person or group) as you so defensively put it. "Name calling" is the very first level in Graham's Hierarchy of Disagreement.

View attachment 34189
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I don't buy that terrorist name calling propaganda.

(COMMENT)

In this context it is a technical and descriptive term that identifies a class of predatory personalities that manifest an amoral and antisocial behavior. Terrorists, like many Jihadist, Fedayeen, Insurgents and Guerillas [in the context under discussion, collectively known as Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP)] are incapable of feeling guilt, remorse or empathy for their victims; without considering the consequences of their actions --- and --- exhibit extreme egocentric and narcissistic behavior. They are generally not able to the calculate the impact for their use of violence (or the threat of violence) against civilians in order to attain goals that are political or religious or ideological in nature. This is done through intimidation or coercion or instilling fear. They generally are not self aware of their psychopathic behaviors and unable to accept the responsibility for the political-military consequences that may ensue.

Most Respectively,
R

There you go again. Basing your conclusions on false premise.

You know that "civilian" is not the definitive term. It should be "protected persons" that Israelis are not.

Israelis in Israel are protected persons. What a ridiculous thing to say.

I am just saying what The Fourth Geneva Convention says.

I know exactly what you're talking about. But it refers to occupied places, so it doesn't apply to Israel proper.

Can you prove your point?

 

[toastman]

It is so sad to see inhumane terrorist attacks like these. I cannot believe people are capable of conditioning themselves in committing these horrible acts. I offer my sympathy and condolences to victims and their families and the entire nation of Israel.

Terrorist is a ? of which side of the fence you straddle,Vik

It is sad when people refer to terrorists as freedom fighters when it suits their agenda. But, that is one of the many reasons this world is a messed up place.

I don't buy that terrorist name calling propaganda.

Two animals who go into a place of worship and butcher 5 innocent people are not terrorists Tinmore? Were the animals fighting the 5 for their freedom? You stink.

Israel calling the Palestinians terrorists is like the coal mine calling the kettle black.

Look up the definition of terrorism

 

[toastman]

P F Tinmore, et al,

It is not "name calling" (gratuitous verbal abuse --- AKA: abusive or insulting language referring to a person or group) as you so defensively put it. "Name calling" is the very first level in Graham's Hierarchy of Disagreement.

View attachment 34189
​

(COMMENT)

In this context it is a technical and descriptive term that identifies a class of predatory personalities that manifest an amoral and antisocial behavior. Terrorists, like many Jihadist, Fedayeen, Insurgents and Guerillas [in the context under discussion, collectively known as Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP)] are incapable of feeling guilt, remorse or empathy for their victims; without considering the consequences of their actions --- and --- exhibit extreme egocentric and narcissistic behavior. They are generally not able to the calculate the impact for their use of violence (or the threat of violence) against civilians in order to attain goals that are political or religious or ideological in nature. This is done through intimidation or coercion or instilling fear. They generally are not self aware of their psychopathic behaviors and unable to accept the responsibility for the political-military consequences that may ensue.

Most Respectively,
R

There you go again. Basing your conclusions on false premise.

You know that "civilian" is not the definitive term. It should be "protected persons" that Israelis are not.

Israelis in Israel are protected persons. What a ridiculous thing to say.

I am just saying what The Fourth Geneva Convention says.

I know exactly what you're talking about. But it refers to occupied places, so it doesn't apply to Israel proper.

Can you prove your point?

You're the one who can't prove it. Post it and we'll take a look.

 

[P F Tinmore]

There you go again. Basing your conclusions on false premise.

You know that "civilian" is not the definitive term. It should be "protected persons" that Israelis are not.

Israelis in Israel are protected persons. What a ridiculous thing to say.

I am just saying what The Fourth Geneva Convention says.

I know exactly what you're talking about. But it refers to occupied places, so it doesn't apply to Israel proper.

Can you prove your point?

You're the one who can't prove it. Post it and we'll take a look.

I can't prove a negative. Where is Israel proper?

 

[toastman]

Israelis in Israel are protected persons. What a ridiculous thing to say.

I am just saying what The Fourth Geneva Convention says.

I know exactly what you're talking about. But it refers to occupied places, so it doesn't apply to Israel proper.

Can you prove your point?

You're the one who can't prove it. Post it and we'll take a look.

I can't prove a negative. Where is Israel proper?

You've never actually proved that the quite applies to Israel.

Where is Israel proper?? Take a guess Tinmore

 

[theliq]

...Good Morning Kondie,Time for leadership,not inflammatory rhetoric...

That's a marvelous sentiment, and, in a sane environment, you would be right.

The Palestinians, however, are not sane.

Consequently, it's time to inflict ten times the harm on the Palestinians as they inflict on the Israelis.

Ten times.

And worse, and worse, and worse, in increments, until it does some good.

I really and truly grieve over this prospect and wish I was wrong and wish that things were different, but what I wish has no bearing whatsoever upon what is now needed, and what must now be done, as Palestinian savagery is forcing the Israelis to harden their hearts to an extent never before experienced in this long-running conflict.

It is time for the Israelis to act decisively.

No more talk.

There is nothing more to say.

There is nothing more to negotiate.

It's all been said and done and tried before, to no avail.

There is nothing left to do but to teach a frightful lesson.

As often and on as escalating a scale as may be required to accomplish the task at hand.

Time to take the gloves off, and Devil take the hindmost.

Sorry Kondie,I just cannot agree,It will cost Israel big time if they continue to allow the Extremists to lead their people.....I alerted to you and others that this outcome would arise about 2 years ago............These people want nothing more that the total elimination of the Palestinian race......they are worse than Hamas a lot worse......Israel as much a Palestine need to negotiate.........Palestine will never be defeated and neither will Israel,but with your punitive analysis and adherence there will only be one result A BLOODBATH........steve

We appear to be reaching the End-Game with zero hope of a negotiated peace in sight. I think we're about to find out whether this is winnable, after all.

We will see and hope Kondie.............I trust you are wrong..steve

 

[theliq]

..

P F Tinmore, et al,

It is not "name calling" (gratuitous verbal abuse --- AKA: abusive or insulting language referring to a person or group) as you so defensively put it. "Name calling" is the very first level in Graham's Hierarchy of Disagreement.

View attachment 34189
​

It is so sad to see inhumane terrorist attacks like these. I cannot believe people are capable of conditioning themselves in committing these horrible acts. I offer my sympathy and condolences to victims and their families and the entire nation of Israel.

Terrorist is a ? of which side of the fence you straddle,Vik

It is sad when people refer to terrorists as freedom fighters when it suits their agenda. But, that is one of the many reasons this world is a messed up place.

I don't buy that terrorist name calling propaganda.

(COMMENT)

In this context it is a technical and descriptive term that identifies a class of predatory personalities that manifest an amoral and antisocial behavior. Terrorists, like many Jihadist, Fedayeen, Insurgents and Guerillas [in the context under discussion, collectively known as Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP)] are incapable of feeling guilt, remorse or empathy for their victims; without considering the consequences of their actions --- and --- exhibit extreme egocentric and narcissistic behavior. They are generally not able to the calculate the impact for their use of violence (or the threat of violence) against civilians in order to attain goals that are political or religious or ideological in nature. This is done through intimidation or coercion or instilling fear. They generally are not self aware of their psychopathic behaviors and unable to accept the responsibility for the political-military consequences that may ensue.

Most Respectively,
R

You could use this analogy for both sides, or anyone for that matter.........Rocco......The Jews/Israelis have never been squeaky clean since the 1920's and beyond....as you would well know.The world mainly Europe wanted rid of the Jews after WW2 and Europe were happy to give them a part of Palestine.....thinking the Palestinian were a pack of Whooshes but they were not and are not..........and in that regard the Palestinians are like the Jews......since 1250 when the English banished the Jews,virtually every European nation have done the same over the past 900 years..............never hear anyone getting stuck into the Germans,why not,??????it was only a generation ago or less!!!!!No just the Palestinians and Arabs.

 

[P F Tinmore]

I am just saying what The Fourth Geneva Convention says.

I know exactly what you're talking about. But it refers to occupied places, so it doesn't apply to Israel proper.

Can you prove your point?

You're the one who can't prove it. Post it and we'll take a look.

I can't prove a negative. Where is Israel proper?

You've never actually proved that the quite applies to Israel.

Where is Israel proper?? Take a guess Tinmore

In Palestine.

 

[Phoenall]

Coyote, et al,

In this context I have to agree.

When "freedom fighters" target innocents they are no different than terrorists. Most groups we call freedom fighters are little more than white-washed terrorists who were victorious. If we approve of their cause, we celebrate them. We don't approve of their cause, we denigrate them. Most of the time, it's a dishonest charade that conveniently overlooks spilled blood.

It doesn't take a "will of steel" to murder people in their place of worship. It just takes hate.

(COMMENT)

But this is why (practical examine) the need for containment and quarantine. No reasonable people in a position of responsibility and trust would want to be responsible for exposing the general public to these savages. Hence, the need for separation; not because they are Arabs or Muslim, but because they pose a danger.

Most Respectfully,
R

I disagree that they as an entire people post a danger and should be collectively punished.

Hamas? Yes.

Now there are calls to boycott anything Arab. Dozens of Arab workers were fired today, The Rabbis call to refraint from hiring them or buying at their stores. Mothers told they'll prevent kids from going outside or come in touch with them.

Call it price tag? I call it dark days.

My gardener can come to me with an axe tomorrow, and it won't be at all surprising. Did you know that one of the terrorists worked at a store next to the place? his boss is a Jew.

Now we look at them in general as enemies. Dark experience.

As was discovered in Iraq, making thousands of working aged men unemployed with no source of income and angry was not a way to quieten things down.

They are likely to lead the rioting and join resistance movements.
So it is not just illegal collective punishment (again) by Israel. It is stupid.

Then let their government find them work after the BDS put many thousands out of work by closing down the factories in the west bank. So you talk about collective punishment and fail to see that your movement is the one doing it.

 

[Phoenall]

The Cave of the Patriarchs massacre or Ibrahimi Mosque massacre, also known as the Hebron massacre,[1] was a shooting attack carried out by American-born Israeli Baruch Goldstein, a member of the far-right Israeli Kach movement, who opened fire on unarmed Palestinian Muslims praying inside the Ibrahimi Mosque (or Mosque of Abraham) at the Cave of the Patriarchs in Hebron, West Bank. It took place on February 25, 1994, during the overlapping religious holidays of Purim and Ramadan.[2][3] The attack left 29 male worshippers dead and 125 wounded.[4] The attack only ended after Goldstein was overcome and beaten to death by survivors.
Cave of the Patriarchs massacre - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Yes while the balance of his mind was disturbed after witnessing the mass murders of many of his friends

 

[Kondor3]

Coyote, et al,

In this context I have to agree.

When "freedom fighters" target innocents they are no different than terrorists. Most groups we call freedom fighters are little more than white-washed terrorists who were victorious. If we approve of their cause, we celebrate them. We don't approve of their cause, we denigrate them. Most of the time, it's a dishonest charade that conveniently overlooks spilled blood.

It doesn't take a "will of steel" to murder people in their place of worship. It just takes hate.

(COMMENT)

But this is why (practical examine) the need for containment and quarantine. No reasonable people in a position of responsibility and trust would want to be responsible for exposing the general public to these savages. Hence, the need for separation; not because they are Arabs or Muslim, but because they pose a danger.

Most Respectfully,
R

I disagree that they as an entire people post a danger and should be collectively punished.

Hamas? Yes.

Now there are calls to boycott anything Arab. Dozens of Arab workers were fired today, The Rabbis call to refraint from hiring them or buying at their stores. Mothers told they'll prevent kids from going outside or come in touch with them.

Call it price tag? I call it dark days.

My gardener can come to me with an axe tomorrow, and it won't be at all surprising. Did you know that one of the terrorists worked at a store next to the place? his boss is a Jew.

Now we look at them in general as enemies. Dark experience.

As was discovered in Iraq, making thousands of working aged men unemployed with no source of income and angry was not a way to quieten things down.

They are likely to lead the rioting and join resistance movements.
So it is not just illegal collective punishment (again) by Israel. It is stupid.

Then let their government find them work after the BDS put many thousands out of work by closing down the factories in the west bank. So you talk about collective punishment and fail to see that your movement is the one doing it.

It IS rather sweetly ironic, though, that BDS hits hardest, amongst those Palestinians who need the jobs in the West Bank. The Israeli owners? Hell, they just move out of the West Bank, and, viola, instant lifting of censure - not to mention more jobs for Israelis or Jewish immigrants - who can then go home to new Jewish settlements built upon the land where the business used to stand in the West Bank. Silly, silly boycotting bitches.

 

[Kondor3]

...Where is Israel proper?

Wherever Israel says it is.

 

[Phoenall]

I think the key point here, is that whether Israel likes it or not, these people, these Palestinians are a large part of Israel's population. The government and legal system may want to call them non-citizens and limit their rights and make them an underclass, but they are a major part of the population.

And no regime can survive intact if their population rebels.
If Israel is not careful it could start to look very much like Syria does.

They are not any part of Israel's population, they are Palestinians. They have their own government that is supposed to look after their needs and provide for them. If what you say is correct then there is no occupation and no blockade, and it is all an internal matter that will be dealt with under military law. So decide are they Palestinians with non member status in the UN or are they Israeli with full member status in the UN.

 

[Phoenall]

I know exactly what you're talking about. But it refers to occupied places, so it doesn't apply to Israel proper.

Can you prove your point?

You're the one who can't prove it. Post it and we'll take a look.

I can't prove a negative. Where is Israel proper?

You've never actually proved that the quite applies to Israel.

Where is Israel proper?? Take a guess Tinmore

In Palestine.

Yes the MANDATE OF PALESTINE as opposed to the NATION OF PALESTINE

 

[theliq]

The Cave of the Patriarchs massacre or Ibrahimi Mosque massacre, also known as the Hebron massacre,[1] was a shooting attack carried out by American-born Israeli Baruch Goldstein, a member of the far-right Israeli Kach movement, who opened fire on unarmed Palestinian Muslims praying inside the Ibrahimi Mosque (or Mosque of Abraham) at the Cave of the Patriarchs in Hebron, West Bank. It took place on February 25, 1994, during the overlapping religious holidays of Purim and Ramadan.[2][3] The attack left 29 male worshippers dead and 125 wounded.[4] The attack only ended after Goldstein was overcome and beaten to death by survivors.
Cave of the Patriarchs massacre - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Yes while the balance of his mind was disturbed after witnessing the mass murders of many of his friends

So if you use that analogy all Palestinians should use the same excuse but there is NO EXCUSE for what this Loony did........much like the Assination of Prime Minister Rabin,a similar excuse was made about that Murderer...but we all know they were not Mad.....they were bloody evil.....but you Phony always defend the Indefensible because you think the same.....NO CROCIDILE TEARS PLEASE........PATHETIC WEAK COMMENT,yet again

 

[Kondor3]

...You know that "civilian" is not the definitive term. It should be "protected persons" that Israelis are not.

There you go, Tinny.

This is why Israel appears to be preparing to move rapidly towards the End-Game with the Palestinians.

Your side has declared Open Season on Israeli civilians.

It does not matter whether you can spin a legal argument at international law that might make allowance for it.

It is the mere act itself, of formally declaring Open Season on civilians, that is going to bring great harm to all Palestinians still residing in the West Bank and Gaza.

Great harm.

You(r side) is a Pygmy.

Standing next to a Colossus.

A Colossus that has - until now - shown some considerable modicum of restraint - having contained you, and harassed you, but not resorting (yet) to killing you, except in retaliation for your own aggression, and not (yet) to the extent required to remove the threat that you now pose, to his wife and children.

After years of sporadic hostilities, with you on the losing side of the equation, you formally declare that the wife and children of the Colossus are now Fair Game.

Are you(r side) phukking insane?

Do you really want the Colossus to harden his heart to the extent necessary to abandon all other measures and to begin killing you in droves, or expelling you en masse?

Really?

Jesus-H-Tap-Dancing-Christ, but you(r side) really ARE a Stupid People, aren't you?

Unbelievably stupid.

Stupid people not only piss into the wind, but they continue to do it, again and again and again, even after they're soaking wet and stinking.

Stupid peoples do not last.

No wonder Nature has de-selected you !

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, toastman, et al,

Well, to a degree --- our friend P F Tinmore is correct; as far as he goes. But like so many people, he does not give a complete answer.

P F Tinmore, et al,

It is not "name calling" (gratuitous verbal abuse --- AKA: abusive or insulting language referring to a person or group) as you so defensively put it. "Name calling" is the very first level in Graham's Hierarchy of Disagreement.

View attachment 34189
​

Terrorist is a ? of which side of the fence you straddle,Vik

It is sad when people refer to terrorists as freedom fighters when it suits their agenda. But, that is one of the many reasons this world is a messed up place.

I don't buy that terrorist name calling propaganda.

(COMMENT)

In this context it is a technical and descriptive term that identifies a class of predatory personalities that manifest an amoral and antisocial behavior. Terrorists, like many Jihadist, Fedayeen, Insurgents and Guerillas [in the context under discussion, collectively known as Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP)] are incapable of feeling guilt, remorse or empathy for their victims; without considering the consequences of their actions --- and --- exhibit extreme egocentric and narcissistic behavior. They are generally not able to the calculate the impact for their use of violence (or the threat of violence) against civilians in order to attain goals that are political or religious or ideological in nature. This is done through intimidation or coercion or instilling fear. They generally are not self aware of their psychopathic behaviors and unable to accept the responsibility for the political-military consequences that may ensue.

Most Respectively,
R

There you go again. Basing your conclusions on false premise.

You know that "civilian" is not the definitive term. It should be "protected persons" that Israelis are not.

Israelis in Israel are protected persons. What a ridiculous thing to say.

(OBSERVATION)

Rule 5 Customary International Humanitarian Law: Civilians are persons who are not members of the armed forces. The civilian population comprises all persons who are civilians.

The definition of civilians as persons who are not members of the armed forces is set forth in Article 50 of Additional Protocol I, to which no reservations have been made.[1] It is also contained in numerous military manuals.[2] It is reflected in reported practice.[3] This practice includes that of States not, or not at the time, party to Additional Protocol I.[4]
​

Protocol Additional to the Geneva Conventions of 12 August 1949, and relating to the Protection of Victims of International Armed Conflicts (Protocol I), 8 June 1977.

• 
  Article 50 -- Definition of civilians and civilian population
  
  
  1. A civilian is any person who does not belong to one of the categories of persons referred to in Article 4 A (1), (2), (3) and (6) [ Link ] of the Third Convention and in Article 43 [ Link ] of this Protocol. In case of doubt whether a person is a civilian, that person shall be considered to be a civilian.
  2. The civilian population comprises all persons who are civilians.
  3. The presence within the civilian population of individuals who do not come within the definition of civilians does not deprive the population of its civilian character.​

(COMMENT)

P F Tinmore is correct in that the term "civilian" is not defined by the main body of the Fourth Geneva Convention (GCIV). He is incorrect (very wrong) in suggesting that it is not a defined term. A quick examination of the observations, supra, demonstrate that the term "civilian" is defined by both Protocol I to the GCIV as well as in Customary Humanitarian Law (IHL).

He would also be incorrect in suggesting that the main body of the GCIV does not provide for attacks made against the Occupation Force (Israelis) by the belligerent "protected persons" (Hostile Arab Palestinians).

Convention (IV) relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War. Geneva, 12 August 1949.
Penal legislation. V. Penalties. Death penalty
ARTICLE 68 [ Link ]

Protected persons who commit an offence which is solely intended to harm the Occupying Power, but which does not constitute an attempt on the life or limb of members of the occupying forces or administration, nor a grave collective danger, nor seriously damage the property of the occupying forces or administration or the installations used by them, shall be liable to internment or simple imprisonment, provided the duration of such internment or imprisonment is proportionate to the offence committed. Furthermore, internment or imprisonment shall, for such offences, be the only measure adopted for depriving protected persons of liberty. The courts provided for under Article 66 of the present Convention may at their discretion convert a sentence of imprisonment to one of internment for the same period.
The penal provisions promulgated by the Occupying Power in accordance with Articles 64 and 65 may impose the death penalty on a protected person only in cases where the person is guilty of espionage, of serious acts of sabotage against the military installations of the Occupying Power or of intentional offences which have caused the death of one or more persons, provided that such offences were punishable by death under the law of the occupied territory in force before the occupation began.
The death penalty may not be pronounced against a protected person unless the attention of the court has been particularly called to the fact that since the accused is not a national of the Occupying Power, he is not bound to it by any duty of allegiance.
In any case, the death penalty may not be pronounced against a protected person who was under eighteen years of age at the time of the offence.​

Any hostile action taken on the part of the Palestinians, solely intended to harm the Occupying Power (the Israeli), is punishable. Make no mistake. That is in black'n'white. However, Rule #5 Customary IHL covers all civilians everywhere.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

And you would be wrong in suggesting that.

I am just saying what The Fourth Geneva Convention says.

(COMMENT)

See Posting #117.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[pbel]

Once again Israel got what Israel deserved for their treatment of Palestinians with peace offerings, a security fence & land concessions so the Palestinians can remain in Israel. When will Israel ever learn to treat the Palestinians like their own Arab brothers do in surrounding Arab countries?

Prayer massacre Three Americans among four rabbis killed as Palestinian militants storm Jerusalem synagogue - AOL.com

Get real Krusty, the biggest terrorist attack on worshipers was committed by Dr. Baruch Goldstein by murdering 29 Palestinians and wounding 125...

Now its been reported that his grave is a shrine...Israel is the cause of retribution and hate, and despair...

 

[toastman]

I know exactly what you're talking about. But it refers to occupied places, so it doesn't apply to Israel proper.

Can you prove your point?

You're the one who can't prove it. Post it and we'll take a look.

I can't prove a negative. Where is Israel proper?

You've never actually proved that the quite applies to Israel.

Where is Israel proper?? Take a guess Tinmore

In Palestine.

In your dreams

Palestine is inside Israel . Palestine doesn't even have borders.

Funny how you consider Palestine to be different than what the whole world considers it.