Tax-free Internet shopping days could be numbered

[Larkinn]

paypal, check, money order etc..

And the companies will take your money and run. Have fun with that. As I said, not a booming market. As it is, if you buy from stores that only offer paypal/check/money order, you are probably getting jacked.

the funny thing about the internet is that once the cat is out of the bag.. well, have this discussion with Lars Ulrich.

Because online retailers never tax those in states they have a physical prescence in

Or, more likely, states like oregon will become to internet sales what the carabean is to tax shelters.

Right...everyone will have all of there things shipped to Oregon and then shipped to wherever they live. Because I really want to wait a month to get something before I order it, or pay $70 for shipping to avoid $30 for taxes.

What will happen is that people will start paying taxes on these things, local stores will start doing a bit better, internet retailers will be hurt, and states will make more money. Thats about it. No crisis, no underground criminal black market.

 

[doeton]

yeah just to be clear.

Shogun the tax is based on your residency.

not the state you buy from.

 

[Shogun]

yea dude. people LOVE paying taxes and are only too quick to shell out more money instead of looking for every conceivable way to avoid paying more


this is very true. Hell, it's a good thing there are no other black markets on taxed goods to use as evidence. I mean, it's a fucking hell freezes over frequency to see people from one state drive to another to circumvent taxes... And we all know how much more inconvenient the fucking internet is than that.

 

[doeton]

so your argument now is since people will try to get around paying the tax we shouldn't have the tax.



um don't you think some people always try to get around all taxes?

 

[Larkinn]

yea dude. people LOVE paying taxes and are only too quick to shell out more money instead of looking for every conceivable way to avoid paying more

So your argument is that people will spend $70 to save $30 on taxes?

this is very true. Hell, it's a good thing there are no other black markets on taxed goods to use as evidence. I mean, it's a fucking hell freezes over frequency to see people from one state drive to another to circumvent taxes...

Who said taxes are never circumvented? They are all the time. However an internet based black market is a retarded idea.

And we all know how much more inconvenient the fucking internet is than that.

Inconvenient to give someone you know is a criminal your money for a purchase?

Yeah...I'd say thats sort of inconvenient.

If you want to buy those goods, go for it. While your at it I have some tax-free cigs to sell you online...only $3 a pack...just send me your money order via western union to Nigeria...

 

[manifold]

yeah just to be clear.

Shogun the tax is based on your residency.

not the state you buy from.

True, it has be reinterpretted as such, but that wasn't how it all started.

Originally, sales taxes were on the merchant, to pay for the right to peddle his wares, not on the consumer. But since the merchants merely passed the cost on to the consumer, over time it's come to be understood as a consumption tax rather than a sales tax.

 

[manifold]

Of course the part that I find interesting is that apparently Shogun is the worlds one and only anti-tax socialist.

Fantasyland rules!

 

[Ravi]

yeah just to be clear.

Shogun the tax is based on your residency.

not the state you buy from.

Or more clearly it's based on where you take delivery. At least that's how it applies in my state.

 

[doeton]

Of course the part that I find interesting is that apparently Shogun is the worlds one and only anti-tax socialist.

Fantasyland rules!

 

[Shogun]

So your argument is that people will spend $70 to save $30 on taxes?


yea the IS what we see happening in our current black marekets today!

Hell, I just paid 9% sales tax on a sack of weed yesterday!



Who said taxes are never circumvented? They are all the time. However an internet based black market is a retarded idea.

No, insane is acting like we need a task force to regulate pricewatch.com when local retailers have every opportunity, LIKE WHAT IS FOUND AT PRICEWATCH.COM, to participate in the internet's tax free sales. Retarded? you are clearly familiar with the internet.

just like a culture of ripped software, games, movies and music based on avoiding paying adobe prices is CARAZY too, eh? just THINK of the possible boot sector viri imbedded in every ripped OS available... that people STILL use.


Inconvenient to give someone you know is a criminal your money for a purchase?
Yeah...I'd say thats sort of inconvenient.

the commerce involved doesn't make them criminal any more than Budweiser was criminal before prohibition. And, as THAT turned out...


If you want to buy those goods, go for it. While your at it I have some tax-free cigs to sell you online...only $3 a pack...just send me your money order via western union to Nigeria...


You are probably less viable than buying hardware from Pricewatch.com. Clearly, we need agents to read every email interaction between a potential seller and a potential client.


I mean.. business RARELY ever tried to circumvent regulation in order to facilitate a customer..

 

[Shogun]

so your argument now is since people will try to get around paying the tax we shouldn't have the tax.



um don't you think some people always try to get around all taxes?

MY arguement is that any business has the opportunity to create a website and sell goods tax free via the internet. I'm not interested in rationalizing greedy fucking politicians when there is no basis for the charge of unfair commerce.


and no, I don't think purchases from the net should be taxed.

 

[Shogun]

Of course the part that I find interesting is that apparently Shogun is the worlds one and only anti-tax socialist.

Fantasyland rules!

It seems that I become your hero more and more everyday

 

[Angel Heart]

What about you?

Each state would determine for itself the sales tax. Its taxing YOU, so it should be the state where the purchaser is, not the state where the seller is.

Good to know. Means I can keep one of the cool things about Oregon... No Sales Tax... Don't have to pump my own gas. Yet still tend to have lower gas price than state where you do... And oh so many more reasons.

 

[Larkinn]

So your argument is that people will spend $70 to save $30 on taxes?


yea the IS what we see happening in our current black marekets today!

Hell, I just paid 9% sales tax on a sack of weed yesterday!

Weed is already illegal and hence taxes, obviously, won't be added on. If the majority of goods you buy are already illegal, it won't effect you. I doubt thats the case.

No, insane is acting like we need a task force to regulate pricewatch.com when local retailers have every opportunity, LIKE WHAT IS FOUND AT PRICEWATCH.COM, to participate in the internet's tax free sales. Retarded? you are clearly familiar with the internet.

Who said we need a task force?

Retailers, unlike consumers SELL THINGS and hence will be effected by the local tax.

just like a culture of ripped software, games, movies and music based on avoiding paying adobe prices is CARAZY too, eh? just THINK of the possible boot sector viri imbedded in every ripped OS available... that people STILL use.

Hi, do those things require you to give money? No. Thanks.

the commerce involved doesn't make them criminal any more than Budweiser was criminal before prohibition. And, as THAT turned out...

Correct, however you FACED the criminal then and so it was harder for them to steal. Derr.

You are probably less viable than buying hardware from Pricewatch.com. Clearly, we need agents to read every email interaction between a potential seller and a potential client.

I mean.. business RARELY ever tried to circumvent regulation in order to facilitate a customer..

Who is asking for increased enforcement?

Do try and stay on the topic at hand.

 

[Shogun]

Indeed.. thank god no other task forces have been created to address any other criminal element to internet activity... Gosh, the thousands of online retailers were probably just WAITING to line up to comply with more taxation..



Is tobacco legal and taxed? is there a black market for non-taxed smokes?

Cigarette Taxes, Black Markets, and Crime:
Lessons from New York’s 50-Year Losing Battle
http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa-468es.html

Tribe Sued by Supermarket Over 'Black Market' Cigarettes

http://www.jointogether.org/news/headlines/inthenews/2006/tribe-sued-by-supermarket.html

Stiff Tobacco Taxes Inspire Flourishing Black Market in Cigarettes
http://www.caltax.org/member/digest/june2001/jun01-08.htm

NYC goes after black-market cigarettes
Wednesday, April 09, 2008 | 8:11 AM
http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/story?section=news/business&id=6069994

In battle against black-market cigarettes, NYC targets wholesal...
The city has gone to court in an attempt to punish a tobacco wholesaler it accuses of fueling the region's trade in black-market cigarettes.
http://www.topix.com/forum/state/ny/TVJKLG7C3FHBNISOG

Taxes cause rise in 'black market' smokes
http://www.wstm.com/news/news_story.aspx?id=117839


WHO said anything about a TASK FORCE, you say?


Testimony by Treasury Deputy General Counsel Neal S. Wolin before the Senate Democratic Task Force on Tobacco

Thank you very much, Senator Conrad and distinguished members of the Task Force. I am pleased to have this opportunity to discuss administrative and enforcement issues arising from the implementation of new tobacco legislation, particularly those issues related to controlling illegal domestic diversion and cross-border smuggling of tobacco products.
http://www.ustreas.gov/press/releases/rr2440.htm


Sin-Tax Failure: The Market in Contraband Tobacco and Public Safety
To counter the black-market in tobacco, municipal, provincial police, the RCMP and Customs officials are working in conjunction with American law enforcement agencies. Even the Canadian Armed Forces keeps an eye on some aspects of the issue. They face an uphill struggle. All of Canada’s police and military forces are over-tasked and their resources are diminishing. This is not the case with the smugglers.
http://www.mackenzieinstitute.com/1994/sin-tax-failure10.htm


3/1/2007
Oregon AG nabs tobacco black-marketers dodging high tax rates
by Rob Luke
Hardy Myers
SALEM -- Oregon Attorney General Hardy Myers today announced a swathe of arrests in a crime as old as taxation itself.

Myers said four distributors and nine retailers had been nabbed through efforts by the Tobacco Tax Compliance Task Force (TCTF) for smuggling and distributing non-taxed tobacco products.
http://www.legalnewsline.com/news/contentview.asp?c=191253


Indeed.. maybe if you lay off the rhetorical bullshit and thought a few steps ahead of where you are walking I wouldn't have to curbstomp your silly rebuttals.

 

[Ravi]

I'd rather pay sales tax than property tax.

 

[Shogun]

Niel Boortz fan, eh?

 

[Ravi]

Niel Boortz fan, eh?

Don't know him.

 

[manifold]

I'd rather pay sales tax than property tax.

Not me.

High property taxes keep out the riff-raff.

 

[Shogun]

Don't know him.

meh.. it's probably for the better. I'm sure his genitalia, excuse me, his tiny virgin genitalia is keeping you down somehow.