Still waiting

[Big Black Dog]

The Democrats have the ability to pass any laws they feel like they want to pass. The numbers are on their side. Republicans can't stop anything because they are clearly a minority. So, if something doesn't pass the Democrats can't blame anybody except themselves. However, they won't do that because if something goes wrong with their game plan it's always somebody elses fault.

 

[Nik]

[No the republicans cannot block anything.

without sixty democratic senators present and voting, they most certainly CAN.

All they need is 51 votes(if it's considered after Oct. 15). And how many senators are democrats? Do the math. The republicans are not even a factor and if you think they are, then you as stupid as you look. The dems have a fillibuster proof majority. Even if all the republicans vote against the measure it can still be passed.

Not quite. After Oct 15th, the Democrats can pass the health care bill via reconciliation, but the rules the bill must fall under are very different than normal. They don't exactly have a free reign with the bill if they choose that path.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

"Traditionally Republicans are more homogenous than Democrats because Democrats in general are a much more diverse group of people. "

Is THIS the statement you are asking for documentation to support?

if so:

Democrats Gain Edge in Party Identification - Pew Research Center for the People & the Press


http://www.nd.edu/~cwolbrec/PartyID.pdf

(Page 64 of 66) - Multiculturalism and American Party Politics authored by Bass, Shana.


Republican Base Heavily White, Conservative, Religious

This from the first link you offered.

In historical terms, the Democratic Party held a sizable lead over the Republicans in party identification.

This quote contradicts your claim that republicans have traditionally been more homogeneous than democrats.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

without sixty democratic senators present and voting, they most certainly CAN.

All they need is 51 votes(if it's considered after Oct. 15). And how many senators are democrats? Do the math. The republicans are not even a factor and if you think they are, then you as stupid as you look. The dems have a fillibuster proof majority. Even if all the republicans vote against the measure it can still be passed.

Not quite. After Oct 15th, the Democrats can pass the health care bill via reconciliation, but the rules the bill must fall under are very different than normal. They don't exactly have a free reign with the bill if they choose that path.

They can pass the bill in parts, but not in it's entirety. At least that's my understanding.

 

[nodoginnafight]

This quote contradicts your claim that republicans have traditionally been more homogeneous than democrats.

On the contrary - that particular line neither supports nor refutes my claim. It merely says Democrats have historically ejoyed a sizable lead in reported party identification. THIS line includes absolutely nothing about the diversity of those identifying with a particular party. In that link there is a lengthy piece that does support my claim but perhaps not as strongly as the other links.

But I included several links, many of which do an even more extensive job of documenting diversity and party identification. so my point is very well supported.

 

[bodecea]

I keep asking and getting no answer. In fact usually after I ask the thread dies.

How are the Republicans blocking any legislation? In the house it takes 218 votes to pass a bill and there are 265 Democrats, in the Senate it takes 51 votes to pass a bill and the Democrats have 59 Senators and 2 more that are Independent that vote democratic.

Can anyone explain this to me?

First of all, who said Republicans were blocking any legislation?

 

[RetiredGySgt]

I keep asking and getting no answer. In fact usually after I ask the thread dies.

How are the Republicans blocking any legislation? In the house it takes 218 votes to pass a bill and there are 265 Democrats, in the Senate it takes 51 votes to pass a bill and the Democrats have 59 Senators and 2 more that are Independent that vote democratic.

Can anyone explain this to me?

First of all, who said Republicans were blocking any legislation?

Ahh dishonest deflection at its best.

 

[MaggieMae]

I keep asking and getting no answer. In fact usually after I ask the thread dies.

How are the Republicans blocking any legislation? In the house it takes 218 votes to pass a bill and there are 265 Democrats, in the Senate it takes 51 votes to pass a bill and the Democrats have 59 Senators and 2 more that are Independent that vote democratic.

Can anyone explain this to me?

It just goes to show that not ALL Democrats are liberals. A no-brainer.

 

[MaggieMae]

the question presumes that either party is monolithic and homogenous which is certainly false. The question does not address healthcare specifically, so neither will I.

In general, because of the practical fact that the democrats cannot easily bring 60 united senators to the floor, republicans can stop nearly any bill from proceeding to a vote simply by using the cloture rules.

your wait is over.

The only problem with using cloture is that the Senators have to vote on that too.

 

[MaggieMae]

I am not sure, I don't have that much knowledge of how political descisions are made in USA...

But I can guess! Maybe if some of republicans trick enough democrats to vote "wrong"...
Then theese rebublicans ARE blocking legislation, arn't they?

No the republicans cannot block anything. If the democrats were "tricked", it's still the democrats vote that would block it , not the republicans.

Perhaps you should stay out of our politics until you learn how the system works.

They can still filibuster.

 

[Darkwind]

I am not sure, I don't have that much knowledge of how political descisions are made in USA...

But I can guess! Maybe if some of republicans trick enough democrats to vote "wrong"...
Then theese rebublicans ARE blocking legislation, arn't they?

If they talk them into voting right, they still are not blocking the legislation. Only the Democrats can do that.

 

[MaggieMae]

I keep asking and getting no answer. In fact usually after I ask the thread dies.

How are the Republicans blocking any legislation? In the house it takes 218 votes to pass a bill and there are 265 Democrats, in the Senate it takes 51 votes to pass a bill and the Democrats have 59 Senators and 2 more that are Independent that vote democratic.

Can anyone explain this to me?

Obviously, the Republicans are not able to block this legislation, although they would if they could. The fact is that the leadership of the Democratic Party is so out of step with the rest of the country, including many independents and even some rank and file Democrats, that they can't grasp the fact that while the American people approve of the stated goals of health care reform, reining in health care costs and increasing affordable access to health insurance, that there is strong grass roots opposition to the high cost of the ideas they have put forward, the ideological content of the House bill, public plan and emphasis on end of life counseling, and the ham fisted way in which they have tried to push their bills through Congress before voters have had a chance to fully consider them, as well as the anti business class warfare rhetoric they have used to try to rally support, so all they can do is whimper irrationally that the Republicans did it.

The fact is that if the Democratic leadership had sought consensus on health insurance reform instead of trying to use the issue to achieve a victory over Republicans that would carry them to victory in the 2010 elections, we would be well on our way to achieving the stated goals of reining in health care costs and increasing affordable access to health insurance by now.

Well, you're never going to get consensus, for sure. But one would think that since health care reform has been a hot topic issue for at least the last 60 years and has only grown to be an even bigger hurdle over time, it shouldn't be necessary to revisit all the reasons WHY it is necessary.

 

[maineman]

the question presumes that either party is monolithic and homogenous which is certainly false. The question does not address healthcare specifically, so neither will I.

In general, because of the practical fact that the democrats cannot easily bring 60 united senators to the floor, republicans can stop nearly any bill from proceeding to a vote simply by using the cloture rules.

your wait is over.

The only problem with using cloture is that the Senators have to vote on that too.

exactly. And you need 60 votes to stop debate and move the bill to a vote. Democrats cannot practically bring 60 votes to the floor, ergo, they cannot stop republicans from continuing to debate (filibuster).

 

[nodoginnafight]

If they talk them into voting right, they still are not blocking the legislation. Only the Democrats can do that.

I think this is a misleading and unecessarily polarizing argument.

ANYONE (no matter their party affiliation) who votes against a measure is part of the "block."

 

[toomuchtime_]

I keep asking and getting no answer. In fact usually after I ask the thread dies.

How are the Republicans blocking any legislation? In the house it takes 218 votes to pass a bill and there are 265 Democrats, in the Senate it takes 51 votes to pass a bill and the Democrats have 59 Senators and 2 more that are Independent that vote democratic.

Can anyone explain this to me?

Obviously, the Republicans are not able to block this legislation, although they would if they could. The fact is that the leadership of the Democratic Party is so out of step with the rest of the country, including many independents and even some rank and file Democrats, that they can't grasp the fact that while the American people approve of the stated goals of health care reform, reining in health care costs and increasing affordable access to health insurance, that there is strong grass roots opposition to the high cost of the ideas they have put forward, the ideological content of the House bill, public plan and emphasis on end of life counseling, and the ham fisted way in which they have tried to push their bills through Congress before voters have had a chance to fully consider them, as well as the anti business class warfare rhetoric they have used to try to rally support, so all they can do is whimper irrationally that the Republicans did it.

The fact is that if the Democratic leadership had sought consensus on health insurance reform instead of trying to use the issue to achieve a victory over Republicans that would carry them to victory in the 2010 elections, we would be well on our way to achieving the stated goals of reining in health care costs and increasing affordable access to health insurance by now.

Well, you're never going to get consensus, for sure. But one would think that since health care reform has been a hot topic issue for at least the last 60 years and has only grown to be an even bigger hurdle over time, it shouldn't be necessary to revisit all the reasons WHY it is necessary.

The debate began, in fact, with a broad consensus on the major goals, reining in health care costs and increasing affordable access to coverage, but then the Dems made no attempt to find consensus on how to achieve these goals because they set a deadline that would bring in the bill before the 2010 campaign season began. Obama argues that the bill must be passed before the campaigns begin because if the Dems have to argue for the bill during the campaign, it will cost them at the polls, but if this is something the American people want, why wouldn't it help the Dems at the polls rather than hurt them?

 

[bodecea]

I keep asking and getting no answer. In fact usually after I ask the thread dies.

How are the Republicans blocking any legislation? In the house it takes 218 votes to pass a bill and there are 265 Democrats, in the Senate it takes 51 votes to pass a bill and the Democrats have 59 Senators and 2 more that are Independent that vote democratic.

Can anyone explain this to me?

First of all, who said Republicans were blocking any legislation?

Ahh dishonest deflection at its best.

No deflection at all...quite a simple question. I will ask it again. Perhaps you will actually answer it this time.

Who said Republicans were blocking any legislation?

 

[maineman]

I keep asking and getting no answer. In fact usually after I ask the thread dies.

How are the Republicans blocking any legislation? In the house it takes 218 votes to pass a bill and there are 265 Democrats, in the Senate it takes 51 votes to pass a bill and the Democrats have 59 Senators and 2 more that are Independent that vote democratic.

Can anyone explain this to me?

explained in post #7.

AND...your math is wrong regarding the size of the democratic caucus in the senate.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

I am not sure, I don't have that much knowledge of how political descisions are made in USA...

But I can guess! Maybe if some of republicans trick enough democrats to vote "wrong"...
Then theese rebublicans ARE blocking legislation, arn't they?

No the republicans cannot block anything. If the democrats were "tricked", it's still the democrats vote that would block it , not the republicans.

Perhaps you should stay out of our politics until you learn how the system works.

They can still filibuster.

It's my understanding that there's a filibuster proof majority in the senate.

Franken Declared Winner of Minnesota Senate Election, Giving Dems Filibuster-Proof Majority

Franken Declared Winner of Minnesota Senate Election, Giving Dems Filibuster-Proof Majority - Political News - FOXNews.com

 

[RetiredGySgt]

the question presumes that either party is monolithic and homogenous which is certainly false. The question does not address healthcare specifically, so neither will I.

In general, because of the practical fact that the democrats cannot easily bring 60 united senators to the floor, republicans can stop nearly any bill from proceeding to a vote simply by using the cloture rules.

your wait is over.

The only problem with using cloture is that the Senators have to vote on that too.

exactly. And you need 60 votes to stop debate and move the bill to a vote. Democrats cannot practically bring 60 votes to the floor, ergo, they cannot stop republicans from continuing to debate (filibuster).

Wait, let me get this right. When the Republicans had 55 Senators they RULED the Senate, according to you and other democrats. During the Bush years that was all we heard was that the Republicans ran everything. That everything was the fault of the Republicans. Now when the Democrats effectively have 60 votes not 55, they still get to blame the Republicans? Give it a break, you people are idiots and those that buy your nonsense are sheep.

You want it both ways. When Republicans are in charge it is their fault and when Democrats are in charge it is STILL the Republicans fault.

You dumb asses are looking just that, dumber and dumber every time you make these ridiculous claims.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

First of all, who said Republicans were blocking any legislation?

Ahh dishonest deflection at its best.

No deflection at all...quite a simple question. I will ask it again. Perhaps you will actually answer it this time.

Who said Republicans were blocking any legislation?

The Democrats ARE. The Press IS, The President IS. Perhaps you have been under a rock the last 7 months?