Stealing From The Taxpayer and the Constitution

[Decus]

It really is funny when you see the idiots respond to threads like this. One clown tried to argue in a different thread on the subject of States rights that the intent of the founders could be found in the Preamble to the Constitution. Friggin tragic.

When presented with the words and actions of someone (Madison) who was central to the drafting of the Constitution, nothing but personal opinion and insults are tendered as a response.

The fact that some people see big government as something that we can't live without is truly disturbing.

.

 

[zeke]

massive interstate system is part of national defense and it took the Nazies to tell us that because of Constitutionalism...

When I find apologists for big,overreaching government, such as yourself....
...I wonder if a monarchy wouldn't be more to your liking.


Perhaps even a dictatorship.

I am sorry that a repub figured that out..Poor Ike...mislead by a military strategic tactic that ends up being ,,,wrong...

What was wrong about the Interstate Highway System?

Well they should have built two highway systems side by side. One to drive on and one to work on. I hate road construction. And enough billions of dollars are wasted idling in work zones that we could have built two systems.
Got that out of my system. Thanks for asking.

 

[Steven_R]

The lack of federal funding of the Erie Canal had less to do with some reverence towards the Constitution and more to do with Jefferson, Madison, and Monroe being Virginians and worrying that the canal would give some trade benefit to New York and shift economic power north. Lest we forget, Jefferson bought the Louisiana Purchase without any explicit authority to do so, Madison was SoS during the whole affair and was hugely supportive of the deal, and both Madison and Monroe both sent armed forces into Florida to annex Spanish territory without either a declaration of war or Congressional approval.

 

[rightwinger]

The Constitution is the only document to which the free people of the United States agreed to be governed.
The Constitution. That is why it is called 'the law of the land.'


At one time this was true.
But not since President Franklin Roosevelt.

Here is a tale that compared the two versions of America....before Roosevelt, and since.
This tale took place before that presidency, and so it conformed to the law of the land.




1. "The Erie Canal is a canal in New York that originally ran about 363 miles (584 km) from Albany, New York, on the Hudson River to Buffalo, New York, at Lake Erie. It was built to create a navigable water route fromNew York Cityand the Atlantic Ocean to the Great Lakes..... – because of this vital connection and others to follow, such as the railroads,New York State would become known as the "Empire State" or "the great Empire State"
Erie Canal - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia




2. "The building of the Erie Canal and the politics surrounding it, became a landmark event in American economic history....almost all American wanted better roads and new canals- 'internal improvements' as they were called.....Building the Erie Canal was a splendid idea.
The only question was how to fund it: with federal spending, state funding, or by entrepreneurs?" Folsom and Folsom, "Uncle Sam Can't Count," p.56.

3. In 1811, NY Congressman Peter Porter argued before Congress that the federal government should fund the canal. After all, an Erie Canal would have national benefits, and not just commercially! It would encourage settlement all along it's length, and cause the Great Lakes to flourish.

a. But the Constitution did not empower the federal government to tax all the people of the nation for a road that mainly benefited one state.
Porter's bill failed.

b. But the War of 1812 added a national defense reason and the bill was brought back; Congress passed it in 1817.
"Erie Water West: A History of the Erie Canal, 1792-1854,"by Ronald E. Shaw, p. 39-40, 47.





4. As I said, this was before Franklin Roosevelt, so the Constitution was still in effect. On March 3, 1817, on his next to the last day in office, President James Madison vetoed the bill, saying "I am constrained by the insuperable difficulty I feel in reconciling the bill with the Constitution of the United States..."

He went on to make two significant points, points that successive Presidents should have noted:

a. "....To refer the power in question to the clause "to provide for common defense and general welfare" would be contrary to the established and consistent rules of interpretation,... Such a view of the Constitution would have the effect of giving to Congress a general power of legislation instead of the defined and limited one hitherto understood to belong to them, the terms "common defense and general welfare" embracing every object and act within the purview of a legislative trust." James Madison Veto of federal public works bill March 3 1817

This, from the leader of the Constitutional Convention; he, more than anyone, understood how the general welfare clause was to be read.


b. Don't misunderstand: Madison was in favor of internal improvements- he knew that the Constitution's design was that such projects should be undertaken by the state, or by private citizens.
"I am not unaware of the great importance of roads and canals and the improved navigation of water courses, and that a power in the National Legislature to provide for them might be exercised with signal advantage to the general prosperity."
...But he knew that the Constitution did not provide for such as expansion of the federal government..." I have no option but to withhold my signature from it, and to cherishing the hope that its beneficial objects may be attained [by other means]."
Ibid.


And that is the way it's 'sposed to be.

Damn

Madison was a ******* moron for opposing the Erie Canal

Although I eschew the language you Liberals use, I feel the same way about you for opposing the United States Constitution.



5. From the inception of this nation, the idea was for localities to fund their own projects, rather than the federal government doing so.

"The Kanawha River, or Great Kanawha River (the Little Kanawha River is further north), originates thirty-five miles southeast of Charleston, at Gauley Bridge. A confluence of the Gauley River and the New River, which rises in the mountains of North Carolina, the Kanawha meanders ninety-seven miles from Gauley Bridge until it meets the Ohio River at Point Pleasant.

A steamboat first tried to navigate the river in 1819 but came to grief at the Red House Shoals, approximately thirty miles west of Charleston. That prompted the Virginia legislature to approve a bill for "cutting chutes through the river's shoals, building wing dams and removing snags," and so began the era of the Kanawha steamboat service, as tourists and traders proceeded serenely down the river agog at the beauty of the scenery."
"The West Virginia Encyclopedia,"Ken Sullivan(Editor), p. 393

Thanks for reminding us how ******* dumb Madison really was

Even a simpleton can understand the national economic impacts these major infrastructure projects can have. The Erie Canal helped to make the United States, for a moron like Madison to oppose it on the grounds it is a "state problem" shows why his views on the Constitution should not be trusted

 

[rightwinger]

Roads are one thing, an interstate system of high speed high ways is on a totally different plane ............

Your point is mute,when you realize that if originality is the saving grace here, it all becomes clear just how much you are trolling!!

 

[DrDoomNGloom]

The Constitution is the only document to which the free people of the United States agreed to be governed.
The Constitution. That is why it is called 'the law of the land.'


At one time this was true.
But not since President Franklin Roosevelt.

Here is a tale that compared the two versions of America....before Roosevelt, and since.
This tale took place before that presidency, and so it conformed to the law of the land.




1. "The Erie Canal is a canal in New York that originally ran about 363 miles (584 km) from Albany, New York, on the Hudson River to Buffalo, New York, at Lake Erie. It was built to create a navigable water route fromNew York Cityand the Atlantic Ocean to the Great Lakes..... – because of this vital connection and others to follow, such as the railroads,New York State would become known as the "Empire State" or "the great Empire State"
Erie Canal - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia




2. "The building of the Erie Canal and the politics surrounding it, became a landmark event in American economic history....almost all American wanted better roads and new canals- 'internal improvements' as they were called.....Building the Erie Canal was a splendid idea.
The only question was how to fund it: with federal spending, state funding, or by entrepreneurs?" Folsom and Folsom, "Uncle Sam Can't Count," p.56.

3. In 1811, NY Congressman Peter Porter argued before Congress that the federal government should fund the canal. After all, an Erie Canal would have national benefits, and not just commercially! It would encourage settlement all along it's length, and cause the Great Lakes to flourish.

a. But the Constitution did not empower the federal government to tax all the people of the nation for a road that mainly benefited one state.
Porter's bill failed.

b. But the War of 1812 added a national defense reason and the bill was brought back; Congress passed it in 1817.
"Erie Water West: A History of the Erie Canal, 1792-1854,"by Ronald E. Shaw, p. 39-40, 47.





4. As I said, this was before Franklin Roosevelt, so the Constitution was still in effect. On March 3, 1817, on his next to the last day in office, President James Madison vetoed the bill, saying "I am constrained by the insuperable difficulty I feel in reconciling the bill with the Constitution of the United States..."

He went on to make two significant points, points that successive Presidents should have noted:

a. "....To refer the power in question to the clause "to provide for common defense and general welfare" would be contrary to the established and consistent rules of interpretation,... Such a view of the Constitution would have the effect of giving to Congress a general power of legislation instead of the defined and limited one hitherto understood to belong to them, the terms "common defense and general welfare" embracing every object and act within the purview of a legislative trust." James Madison Veto of federal public works bill March 3 1817

This, from the leader of the Constitutional Convention; he, more than anyone, understood how the general welfare clause was to be read.


b. Don't misunderstand: Madison was in favor of internal improvements- he knew that the Constitution's design was that such projects should be undertaken by the state, or by private citizens.
"I am not unaware of the great importance of roads and canals and the improved navigation of water courses, and that a power in the National Legislature to provide for them might be exercised with signal advantage to the general prosperity."
...But he knew that the Constitution did not provide for such as expansion of the federal government..." I have no option but to withhold my signature from it, and to cherishing the hope that its beneficial objects may be attained [by other means]."
Ibid.


And that is the way it's 'sposed to be.

Damn

Madison was a ******* moron for opposing the Erie Canal

Although I eschew the language you Liberals use, I feel the same way about you for opposing the United States Constitution.



5. From the inception of this nation, the idea was for localities to fund their own projects, rather than the federal government doing so.

"The Kanawha River, or Great Kanawha River (the Little Kanawha River is further north), originates thirty-five miles southeast of Charleston, at Gauley Bridge. A confluence of the Gauley River and the New River, which rises in the mountains of North Carolina, the Kanawha meanders ninety-seven miles from Gauley Bridge until it meets the Ohio River at Point Pleasant.

A steamboat first tried to navigate the river in 1819 but came to grief at the Red House Shoals, approximately thirty miles west of Charleston. That prompted the Virginia legislature to approve a bill for "cutting chutes through the river's shoals, building wing dams and removing snags," and so began the era of the Kanawha steamboat service, as tourists and traders proceeded serenely down the river agog at the beauty of the scenery."
"The West Virginia Encyclopedia,"Ken Sullivan(Editor), p. 393

Thanks for reminding us how ******* dumb Madison really was

Even a simpleton can understand the national economic impacts these major infrastructure projects can have. The Erie Canal helped to make the United States, for a moron like Madison to oppose it on the grounds it is a "state problem" shows why his views on the Constitution should not be trusted

I am going to go out on a limb here, but I am willing to bet ANYONE who does not reenforce your talking points "should not be trusted", is that like saying the table should be a chair??

Reality does not fit into your tiny little mental scheme so you fantasize about "What if" ...............

 

[DrDoomNGloom]

no yours was mute, fell on deaf ears .............

I am a very playful person, especially with my English ...........

 

[DrDoomNGloom]

lol ......like shooting fish in a barrel ......
Set em up again Sam .........

 

[rightwinger]

The Constitution is the only document to which the free people of the United States agreed to be governed.
The Constitution. That is why it is called 'the law of the land.'


At one time this was true.
But not since President Franklin Roosevelt.

Here is a tale that compared the two versions of America....before Roosevelt, and since.
This tale took place before that presidency, and so it conformed to the law of the land.




1. "The Erie Canal is a canal in New York that originally ran about 363 miles (584 km) from Albany, New York, on the Hudson River to Buffalo, New York, at Lake Erie. It was built to create a navigable water route fromNew York Cityand the Atlantic Ocean to the Great Lakes..... – because of this vital connection and others to follow, such as the railroads,New York State would become known as the "Empire State" or "the great Empire State"
Erie Canal - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia




2. "The building of the Erie Canal and the politics surrounding it, became a landmark event in American economic history....almost all American wanted better roads and new canals- 'internal improvements' as they were called.....Building the Erie Canal was a splendid idea.
The only question was how to fund it: with federal spending, state funding, or by entrepreneurs?" Folsom and Folsom, "Uncle Sam Can't Count," p.56.

3. In 1811, NY Congressman Peter Porter argued before Congress that the federal government should fund the canal. After all, an Erie Canal would have national benefits, and not just commercially! It would encourage settlement all along it's length, and cause the Great Lakes to flourish.

a. But the Constitution did not empower the federal government to tax all the people of the nation for a road that mainly benefited one state.
Porter's bill failed.

b. But the War of 1812 added a national defense reason and the bill was brought back; Congress passed it in 1817.
"Erie Water West: A History of the Erie Canal, 1792-1854,"by Ronald E. Shaw, p. 39-40, 47.





4. As I said, this was before Franklin Roosevelt, so the Constitution was still in effect. On March 3, 1817, on his next to the last day in office, President James Madison vetoed the bill, saying "I am constrained by the insuperable difficulty I feel in reconciling the bill with the Constitution of the United States..."

He went on to make two significant points, points that successive Presidents should have noted:

a. "....To refer the power in question to the clause "to provide for common defense and general welfare" would be contrary to the established and consistent rules of interpretation,... Such a view of the Constitution would have the effect of giving to Congress a general power of legislation instead of the defined and limited one hitherto understood to belong to them, the terms "common defense and general welfare" embracing every object and act within the purview of a legislative trust." James Madison Veto of federal public works bill March 3 1817

This, from the leader of the Constitutional Convention; he, more than anyone, understood how the general welfare clause was to be read.


b. Don't misunderstand: Madison was in favor of internal improvements- he knew that the Constitution's design was that such projects should be undertaken by the state, or by private citizens.
"I am not unaware of the great importance of roads and canals and the improved navigation of water courses, and that a power in the National Legislature to provide for them might be exercised with signal advantage to the general prosperity."
...But he knew that the Constitution did not provide for such as expansion of the federal government..." I have no option but to withhold my signature from it, and to cherishing the hope that its beneficial objects may be attained [by other means]."
Ibid.


And that is the way it's 'sposed to be.

Damn

Madison was a ******* moron for opposing the Erie Canal

Although I eschew the language you Liberals use, I feel the same way about you for opposing the United States Constitution.



5. From the inception of this nation, the idea was for localities to fund their own projects, rather than the federal government doing so.

"The Kanawha River, or Great Kanawha River (the Little Kanawha River is further north), originates thirty-five miles southeast of Charleston, at Gauley Bridge. A confluence of the Gauley River and the New River, which rises in the mountains of North Carolina, the Kanawha meanders ninety-seven miles from Gauley Bridge until it meets the Ohio River at Point Pleasant.

A steamboat first tried to navigate the river in 1819 but came to grief at the Red House Shoals, approximately thirty miles west of Charleston. That prompted the Virginia legislature to approve a bill for "cutting chutes through the river's shoals, building wing dams and removing snags," and so began the era of the Kanawha steamboat service, as tourists and traders proceeded serenely down the river agog at the beauty of the scenery."
"The West Virginia Encyclopedia,"Ken Sullivan(Editor), p. 393

Thanks for reminding us how ******* dumb Madison really was

Even a simpleton can understand the national economic impacts these major infrastructure projects can have. The Erie Canal helped to make the United States, for a moron like Madison to oppose it on the grounds it is a "state problem" shows why his views on the Constitution should not be trusted

I am going to go out on a limb here, but I am willing to bet ANYONE who does not reenforce your talking points "should not be trusted", is that like saying the table should be a chair??

Reality does not fit into your tiny little mental scheme so you fantasize about "What if" ...............

Well his opinion should be trusted like any other 18th century aristocrat who has no idea about international economics and the impact a strong federal government can have on it.

 

[rightwinger]

no yours was mute, fell on deaf ears .............

I am a very playful person, especially with my English ...........

Nice attempt at saving yourself some embarassment

By the way, a mute person can't speak, a deaf person can't hear

 

[DrDoomNGloom]

There we are with the SHOULD again, reality is really being cruel to you today isn't it??

 

[DrDoomNGloom]

no yours was mute, fell on deaf ears .............

I am a very playful person, especially with my English ...........

Nice attempt at saving yourself some embarassment

Call em as you see em buba ......

I'm still typing, do I look embarrassed to you??

Your ignorant ass sure want be the one to embarrass me ..............

 

[Steven_R]

The Constitution is the only document to which the free people of the United States agreed to be governed.
The Constitution. That is why it is called 'the law of the land.'


At one time this was true.
But not since President Franklin Roosevelt.

Here is a tale that compared the two versions of America....before Roosevelt, and since.
This tale took place before that presidency, and so it conformed to the law of the land.




1. "The Erie Canal is a canal in New York that originally ran about 363 miles (584 km) from Albany, New York, on the Hudson River to Buffalo, New York, at Lake Erie. It was built to create a navigable water route fromNew York Cityand the Atlantic Ocean to the Great Lakes..... – because of this vital connection and others to follow, such as the railroads,New York State would become known as the "Empire State" or "the great Empire State"
Erie Canal - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia




2. "The building of the Erie Canal and the politics surrounding it, became a landmark event in American economic history....almost all American wanted better roads and new canals- 'internal improvements' as they were called.....Building the Erie Canal was a splendid idea.
The only question was how to fund it: with federal spending, state funding, or by entrepreneurs?" Folsom and Folsom, "Uncle Sam Can't Count," p.56.

3. In 1811, NY Congressman Peter Porter argued before Congress that the federal government should fund the canal. After all, an Erie Canal would have national benefits, and not just commercially! It would encourage settlement all along it's length, and cause the Great Lakes to flourish.

a. But the Constitution did not empower the federal government to tax all the people of the nation for a road that mainly benefited one state.
Porter's bill failed.

b. But the War of 1812 added a national defense reason and the bill was brought back; Congress passed it in 1817.
"Erie Water West: A History of the Erie Canal, 1792-1854,"by Ronald E. Shaw, p. 39-40, 47.





4. As I said, this was before Franklin Roosevelt, so the Constitution was still in effect. On March 3, 1817, on his next to the last day in office, President James Madison vetoed the bill, saying "I am constrained by the insuperable difficulty I feel in reconciling the bill with the Constitution of the United States..."

He went on to make two significant points, points that successive Presidents should have noted:

a. "....To refer the power in question to the clause "to provide for common defense and general welfare" would be contrary to the established and consistent rules of interpretation,... Such a view of the Constitution would have the effect of giving to Congress a general power of legislation instead of the defined and limited one hitherto understood to belong to them, the terms "common defense and general welfare" embracing every object and act within the purview of a legislative trust." James Madison Veto of federal public works bill March 3 1817

This, from the leader of the Constitutional Convention; he, more than anyone, understood how the general welfare clause was to be read.


b. Don't misunderstand: Madison was in favor of internal improvements- he knew that the Constitution's design was that such projects should be undertaken by the state, or by private citizens.
"I am not unaware of the great importance of roads and canals and the improved navigation of water courses, and that a power in the National Legislature to provide for them might be exercised with signal advantage to the general prosperity."
...But he knew that the Constitution did not provide for such as expansion of the federal government..." I have no option but to withhold my signature from it, and to cherishing the hope that its beneficial objects may be attained [by other means]."
Ibid.


And that is the way it's 'sposed to be.

Damn

Madison was a ******* moron for opposing the Erie Canal

Although I eschew the language you Liberals use, I feel the same way about you for opposing the United States Constitution.



5. From the inception of this nation, the idea was for localities to fund their own projects, rather than the federal government doing so.

"The Kanawha River, or Great Kanawha River (the Little Kanawha River is further north), originates thirty-five miles southeast of Charleston, at Gauley Bridge. A confluence of the Gauley River and the New River, which rises in the mountains of North Carolina, the Kanawha meanders ninety-seven miles from Gauley Bridge until it meets the Ohio River at Point Pleasant.

A steamboat first tried to navigate the river in 1819 but came to grief at the Red House Shoals, approximately thirty miles west of Charleston. That prompted the Virginia legislature to approve a bill for "cutting chutes through the river's shoals, building wing dams and removing snags," and so began the era of the Kanawha steamboat service, as tourists and traders proceeded serenely down the river agog at the beauty of the scenery."
"The West Virginia Encyclopedia,"Ken Sullivan(Editor), p. 393

Thanks for reminding us how ******* dumb Madison really was

Even a simpleton can understand the national economic impacts these major infrastructure projects can have. The Erie Canal helped to make the United States, for a moron like Madison to oppose it on the grounds it is a "state problem" shows why his views on the Constitution should not be trusted

I am going to go out on a limb here, but I am willing to bet ANYONE who does not reenforce your talking points "should not be trusted", is that like saying the table should be a chair??

Reality does not fit into your tiny little mental scheme so you fantasize about "What if" ...............

Well his opinion should be trusted like any other 18th century aristocrat who has no idea about international economics and the impact a strong federal government can have on it.

Except that there is a process to amend the Constitution when it is inadequate. The Constitution is a contract. It isn't like Madison didn't leave his private papers or write public pieces describing what me intended the limits of the Constitution to be. The problem is since the beginning, both parties and politicians of all stripes have ignored the Constitution when it got in the way and justified it by pretending it really said "X" when it clearly said "Y". The idea that the Framers of the thing were somehow exempt from that mindset is ludicrous. They were people, not idealistic gods to be deified.

 

[rightwinger]

Damn

Madison was a ******* moron for opposing the Erie Canal

Although I eschew the language you Liberals use, I feel the same way about you for opposing the United States Constitution.



5. From the inception of this nation, the idea was for localities to fund their own projects, rather than the federal government doing so.

"The Kanawha River, or Great Kanawha River (the Little Kanawha River is further north), originates thirty-five miles southeast of Charleston, at Gauley Bridge. A confluence of the Gauley River and the New River, which rises in the mountains of North Carolina, the Kanawha meanders ninety-seven miles from Gauley Bridge until it meets the Ohio River at Point Pleasant.

A steamboat first tried to navigate the river in 1819 but came to grief at the Red House Shoals, approximately thirty miles west of Charleston. That prompted the Virginia legislature to approve a bill for "cutting chutes through the river's shoals, building wing dams and removing snags," and so began the era of the Kanawha steamboat service, as tourists and traders proceeded serenely down the river agog at the beauty of the scenery."
"The West Virginia Encyclopedia,"Ken Sullivan(Editor), p. 393

Thanks for reminding us how ******* dumb Madison really was

Even a simpleton can understand the national economic impacts these major infrastructure projects can have. The Erie Canal helped to make the United States, for a moron like Madison to oppose it on the grounds it is a "state problem" shows why his views on the Constitution should not be trusted

I am going to go out on a limb here, but I am willing to bet ANYONE who does not reenforce your talking points "should not be trusted", is that like saying the table should be a chair??

Reality does not fit into your tiny little mental scheme so you fantasize about "What if" ...............

Well his opinion should be trusted like any other 18th century aristocrat who has no idea about international economics and the impact a strong federal government can have on it.

Except that there is a process to amend the Constitution when it is inadequate. The Constitution is a contract. It isn't like Madison didn't leave his private papers or write public pieces describing what me intended the limits of the Constitution to be. The problem is since the beginning, both parties and politicians of all stripes have ignored the Constitution when it got in the way and justified it by pretending it really said "X" when it clearly said "Y". The idea that the Framers of the thing were somehow exempt from that mindset is ludicrous. They were people, not idealistic gods to be deified.

There is no need to amend the Constitution every time the government wants to build an interstate highway. The Constitution is a great document and allows the government broad powers in what they do for the General Welfare of the country

 

[Steven_R]

Right, but there are any number of things that the feds are involved with that aren't listed in the Art. 1, Sec. 8 list of things that the feds can make laws about. If we're just going to shoehorn every single thing in under the Commerce Clause or Necessary Clause or General Welfare Clause, then the entire idea of a limited federal government is meaningless.

 

[rightwinger]

Right, but there are any number of things that the feds are involved with that aren't listed in the Art. 1, Sec. 8 list of things that the feds can make laws about. If we're just going to shoehorn every single thing in under the Commerce Clause or Necessary Clause or General Welfare Clause, then the entire idea of a limited federal government is meaningless.

You don't think something like the Erie Canal is covered under the Commerce Clause?
Evidently, the OP didn't

 

[PoliticalChic]

The lack of federal funding of the Erie Canal had less to do with some reverence towards the Constitution and more to do with Jefferson, Madison, and Monroe being Virginians and worrying that the canal would give some trade benefit to New York and shift economic power north. Lest we forget, Jefferson bought the Louisiana Purchase without any explicit authority to do so, Madison was SoS during the whole affair and was hugely supportive of the deal, and both Madison and Monroe both sent armed forces into Florida to annex Spanish territory without either a declaration of war or Congressional approval.

Really....?

So....where are the Virginians here?

6. This was hardly the end of the Eire Canal project. J Rutsen Van Rensselaer, a large landholder, called for private funding, offering to form a company for construction, in return for allowing him to collect tolls on the canal.
Shaw, Op. Cit., p. 77.

But the mayor of NYC, soon to be governor, DeWitt Clinton, urged the state to fund the canal through taxes and bonds.
And so it was.


a. The result was even better than hoped for! The tolls on the increasing traffic on the 363-mile canal paid for its $8.4 million dollar construction, and it was profitable even before it was finished in 1825.
NYC surged into first place as the largest city in the country!
Folsom and Folsom, Op. Cit., p. 58.



7. Pennsylvania spent $14.6 million on its Mail Line Canal, from Philadelphia to Pittsburgh; Maryland and Massachusetts began state-supported projects; Ohio and Indiana began a network of canals in 1837; and some states laid tracks and bought locomotives.
Ibid, p. 59.

 

[Contumacious]

Thank god we don't listen to a moron like Madison when it comes to the Constitution

Applying Madisons interpretation there would be no

Erie Canal
Panama Canal
Intercontinental Railroad
Intrstate Highway System

Applying Madison's Constitution - he didn't interpret it - he ******* wrote it - you would be somewhere out there digging ditches and honestly earning a living.

.

Its not his Constitution it is ours

 

[PoliticalChic]

The Constitution is the only document to which the free people of the United States agreed to be governed.
The Constitution. That is why it is called 'the law of the land.'


At one time this was true.
But not since President Franklin Roosevelt.

Here is a tale that compared the two versions of America....before Roosevelt, and since.
This tale took place before that presidency, and so it conformed to the law of the land.




1. "The Erie Canal is a canal in New York that originally ran about 363 miles (584 km) from Albany, New York, on the Hudson River to Buffalo, New York, at Lake Erie. It was built to create a navigable water route fromNew York Cityand the Atlantic Ocean to the Great Lakes..... – because of this vital connection and others to follow, such as the railroads,New York State would become known as the "Empire State" or "the great Empire State"
Erie Canal - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia




2. "The building of the Erie Canal and the politics surrounding it, became a landmark event in American economic history....almost all American wanted better roads and new canals- 'internal improvements' as they were called.....Building the Erie Canal was a splendid idea.
The only question was how to fund it: with federal spending, state funding, or by entrepreneurs?" Folsom and Folsom, "Uncle Sam Can't Count," p.56.

3. In 1811, NY Congressman Peter Porter argued before Congress that the federal government should fund the canal. After all, an Erie Canal would have national benefits, and not just commercially! It would encourage settlement all along it's length, and cause the Great Lakes to flourish.

a. But the Constitution did not empower the federal government to tax all the people of the nation for a road that mainly benefited one state.
Porter's bill failed.

b. But the War of 1812 added a national defense reason and the bill was brought back; Congress passed it in 1817.
"Erie Water West: A History of the Erie Canal, 1792-1854,"by Ronald E. Shaw, p. 39-40, 47.





4. As I said, this was before Franklin Roosevelt, so the Constitution was still in effect. On March 3, 1817, on his next to the last day in office, President James Madison vetoed the bill, saying "I am constrained by the insuperable difficulty I feel in reconciling the bill with the Constitution of the United States..."

He went on to make two significant points, points that successive Presidents should have noted:

a. "....To refer the power in question to the clause "to provide for common defense and general welfare" would be contrary to the established and consistent rules of interpretation,... Such a view of the Constitution would have the effect of giving to Congress a general power of legislation instead of the defined and limited one hitherto understood to belong to them, the terms "common defense and general welfare" embracing every object and act within the purview of a legislative trust." James Madison Veto of federal public works bill March 3 1817

This, from the leader of the Constitutional Convention; he, more than anyone, understood how the general welfare clause was to be read.


b. Don't misunderstand: Madison was in favor of internal improvements- he knew that the Constitution's design was that such projects should be undertaken by the state, or by private citizens.
"I am not unaware of the great importance of roads and canals and the improved navigation of water courses, and that a power in the National Legislature to provide for them might be exercised with signal advantage to the general prosperity."
...But he knew that the Constitution did not provide for such as expansion of the federal government..." I have no option but to withhold my signature from it, and to cherishing the hope that its beneficial objects may be attained [by other means]."
Ibid.


And that is the way it's 'sposed to be.

Damn

Madison was a ******* moron for opposing the Erie Canal

Although I eschew the language you Liberals use, I feel the same way about you for opposing the United States Constitution.



5. From the inception of this nation, the idea was for localities to fund their own projects, rather than the federal government doing so.

"The Kanawha River, or Great Kanawha River (the Little Kanawha River is further north), originates thirty-five miles southeast of Charleston, at Gauley Bridge. A confluence of the Gauley River and the New River, which rises in the mountains of North Carolina, the Kanawha meanders ninety-seven miles from Gauley Bridge until it meets the Ohio River at Point Pleasant.

A steamboat first tried to navigate the river in 1819 but came to grief at the Red House Shoals, approximately thirty miles west of Charleston. That prompted the Virginia legislature to approve a bill for "cutting chutes through the river's shoals, building wing dams and removing snags," and so began the era of the Kanawha steamboat service, as tourists and traders proceeded serenely down the river agog at the beauty of the scenery."
"The West Virginia Encyclopedia,"Ken Sullivan(Editor), p. 393

Thanks for reminding us how ******* dumb Madison really was

Even a simpleton can understand the national economic impacts these major infrastructure projects can have. The Erie Canal helped to make the United States, for a moron like Madison to oppose it on the grounds it is a "state problem" shows why his views on the Constitution should not be trusted

Well, I can't thank you for doubling-down on how little respect you have for the Constitution.

I suspect that it was Madison's use of the 'e' word that makes you so sensitive:

"Education is the true foundation of civil liberty."

 

[Contumacious]

Thank god we don't listen to a moron like Madison when it comes to the Constitution

Applying Madisons interpretation there would be no

Erie Canal
Panama Canal
Intercontinental Railroad
Intrstate Highway System

Applying Madison's Constitution - he didn't interpret it - he ******* wrote it - you would be somewhere out there digging ditches and honestly earning a living.

.

Its not his Constitution it is ours

Bullshit.

You motherfuckers want it substituted with communism.

.