Something Is Fundamentally Wrong with Our Conception of the Universe. Next nonsense

[Frannie]

So a photo of a black hole determines how black holes formed, its mass or what happens to the contents

Yawn.

Better yet Hawking knew all this without even looking

Fools believe

You figure out the market reaction to a USA China trade deal, and how many 757s China will order from boeing?

Or are you gonna play astronomer all day while I trade

Since the thread is about astronomy, I won't comment on other stuff. You should learn that.

Well unlike you I am free to do as I choose.

I would hate to be in your situation.

Try freedom, you might like it

Perhaps you would have some investments if you didn't babble about nonsense astronomy so often

Interesting. You start multiple threads about astronomy and astrophysics, then when people post on those threads, you complain that they "babble about nonsense astronomy so often". You obviously have no idea how idiotic that is. Start a thread on investments if you want. Like you said, you're free to talk about it. Guess what, I'm also free to decide what I want to talk about, and I choose to talk about astronomy and astrophysics in threads devoted to, yup, you guessed it, astronomy and astrophysics. Isn't freedom cool?

You just don't get it, my astronomy threads show that no one knows anything because the math fails, and yet you keep arguing that it's a done deal.

You can be interested in the universe and jumbo jet stocks at the same time. Or at least I can

So how are your telescope stocks doing?

Perspective matters

You don't understand the difference between what we know, what we're learning and how the process works. Of course perspective matters, and you have the perspective of a mole opining on what lies above the ground. Open your eyes and learn something, you might be more interesting.

And you do not comprehend Boeing's defense contracts implications to stock value.

I proved that the people doing astronomical math can't agree and or find any answer. However you stay there in the multiverse, I'm gonna stick to Earth

 

[hadit]

Since the thread is about astronomy, I won't comment on other stuff. You should learn that.

Well unlike you I am free to do as I choose.

I would hate to be in your situation.

Try freedom, you might like it

Perhaps you would have some investments if you didn't babble about nonsense astronomy so often

Interesting. You start multiple threads about astronomy and astrophysics, then when people post on those threads, you complain that they "babble about nonsense astronomy so often". You obviously have no idea how idiotic that is. Start a thread on investments if you want. Like you said, you're free to talk about it. Guess what, I'm also free to decide what I want to talk about, and I choose to talk about astronomy and astrophysics in threads devoted to, yup, you guessed it, astronomy and astrophysics. Isn't freedom cool?

You just don't get it, my astronomy threads show that no one knows anything because the math fails, and yet you keep arguing that it's a done deal.

You can be interested in the universe and jumbo jet stocks at the same time. Or at least I can

So how are your telescope stocks doing?

Perspective matters

You don't understand the difference between what we know, what we're learning and how the process works. Of course perspective matters, and you have the perspective of a mole opining on what lies above the ground. Open your eyes and learn something, you might be more interesting.

And you do not comprehend Boeing's defense contracts implications to stock value.

I proved that the people doing astronomical math can't agree and or find any answer. However you stay there in the multiverse, I'm gonna stick to Earth

So you're going to stop pretending that you know something about astronomy?

 

[Frannie]

Well unlike you I am free to do as I choose.

I would hate to be in your situation.

Try freedom, you might like it

Perhaps you would have some investments if you didn't babble about nonsense astronomy so often

Interesting. You start multiple threads about astronomy and astrophysics, then when people post on those threads, you complain that they "babble about nonsense astronomy so often". You obviously have no idea how idiotic that is. Start a thread on investments if you want. Like you said, you're free to talk about it. Guess what, I'm also free to decide what I want to talk about, and I choose to talk about astronomy and astrophysics in threads devoted to, yup, you guessed it, astronomy and astrophysics. Isn't freedom cool?

You just don't get it, my astronomy threads show that no one knows anything because the math fails, and yet you keep arguing that it's a done deal.

You can be interested in the universe and jumbo jet stocks at the same time. Or at least I can

So how are your telescope stocks doing?

Perspective matters

You don't understand the difference between what we know, what we're learning and how the process works. Of course perspective matters, and you have the perspective of a mole opining on what lies above the ground. Open your eyes and learn something, you might be more interesting.

And you do not comprehend Boeing's defense contracts implications to stock value.

I proved that the people doing astronomical math can't agree and or find any answer. However you stay there in the multiverse, I'm gonna stick to Earth

So you're going to stop pretending that you know something about astronomy?

Actually I know as much about the origin and direction of the universe as the clowns who wrote books explaining the universe then were forced to admit that It is all wrong..... Books only suckers bought, silly me I bought apples

CIAO CHARLIE

Try again

 

[hadit]

Interesting. You start multiple threads about astronomy and astrophysics, then when people post on those threads, you complain that they "babble about nonsense astronomy so often". You obviously have no idea how idiotic that is. Start a thread on investments if you want. Like you said, you're free to talk about it. Guess what, I'm also free to decide what I want to talk about, and I choose to talk about astronomy and astrophysics in threads devoted to, yup, you guessed it, astronomy and astrophysics. Isn't freedom cool?

You just don't get it, my astronomy threads show that no one knows anything because the math fails, and yet you keep arguing that it's a done deal.

You can be interested in the universe and jumbo jet stocks at the same time. Or at least I can

So how are your telescope stocks doing?

Perspective matters

You don't understand the difference between what we know, what we're learning and how the process works. Of course perspective matters, and you have the perspective of a mole opining on what lies above the ground. Open your eyes and learn something, you might be more interesting.

And you do not comprehend Boeing's defense contracts implications to stock value.

I proved that the people doing astronomical math can't agree and or find any answer. However you stay there in the multiverse, I'm gonna stick to Earth

So you're going to stop pretending that you know something about astronomy?

Actually I know as much about the origin and direction of the universe as the clowns who wrote books explaining the universe then were forced to admit that It is all wrong..... Books only suckers bought, silly me I bought apples

CIAO CHARLIE

Try again

Willful ignorance (like yours) is the worst kind.

 

[Frannie]

You just don't get it, my astronomy threads show that no one knows anything because the math fails, and yet you keep arguing that it's a done deal.

You can be interested in the universe and jumbo jet stocks at the same time. Or at least I can

So how are your telescope stocks doing?

Perspective matters

You don't understand the difference between what we know, what we're learning and how the process works. Of course perspective matters, and you have the perspective of a mole opining on what lies above the ground. Open your eyes and learn something, you might be more interesting.

And you do not comprehend Boeing's defense contracts implications to stock value.

I proved that the people doing astronomical math can't agree and or find any answer. However you stay there in the multiverse, I'm gonna stick to Earth

So you're going to stop pretending that you know something about astronomy?

Actually I know as much about the origin and direction of the universe as the clowns who wrote books explaining the universe then were forced to admit that It is all wrong..... Books only suckers bought, silly me I bought apples

CIAO CHARLIE

Try again

Willful ignorance (like yours) is the worst kind.

Actually very few people who bought apple are considered ignorant.

But you stay there in your little shell and be happy
AAPL

Let us know how your black hole singularity stocks are working out 4 U

 

[hadit]

You don't understand the difference between what we know, what we're learning and how the process works. Of course perspective matters, and you have the perspective of a mole opining on what lies above the ground. Open your eyes and learn something, you might be more interesting.

And you do not comprehend Boeing's defense contracts implications to stock value.

I proved that the people doing astronomical math can't agree and or find any answer. However you stay there in the multiverse, I'm gonna stick to Earth

So you're going to stop pretending that you know something about astronomy?

Actually I know as much about the origin and direction of the universe as the clowns who wrote books explaining the universe then were forced to admit that It is all wrong..... Books only suckers bought, silly me I bought apples

CIAO CHARLIE

Try again

Willful ignorance (like yours) is the worst kind.

Actually very few people who bought apple are considered ignorant.

But you stay there in your little shell and be happy
AAPL

Let us know how your black hole singularity stocks are working out 4 U

Look, if you want to talk about stocks, start threads on stocks. Some igmo started this one about astronomy, and on that subject, you're woefully ignorant.

 

[Frannie]

And you do not comprehend Boeing's defense contracts implications to stock value.

I proved that the people doing astronomical math can't agree and or find any answer. However you stay there in the multiverse, I'm gonna stick to Earth

So you're going to stop pretending that you know something about astronomy?

Actually I know as much about the origin and direction of the universe as the clowns who wrote books explaining the universe then were forced to admit that It is all wrong..... Books only suckers bought, silly me I bought apples

CIAO CHARLIE

Try again

Willful ignorance (like yours) is the worst kind.

Actually very few people who bought apple are considered ignorant.

But you stay there in your little shell and be happy
AAPL

Let us know how your black hole singularity stocks are working out 4 U

Look, if you want to talk about stocks, start threads on stocks. Some igmo started this one about astronomy, and on that subject, you're woefully ignorant.

Dude this thread is about the ignorance of astronomers who have been making up nonsense after nonsense and none of them agree with the other. This thread is about FAILED MATH created by fools spending their lives being failures. There can be no serious answer to the beginning or direction of the universe until we know what the hell the universe is. No one does, 40 PhD's or not no one knows.

Now grow up

 

[hadit]

So you're going to stop pretending that you know something about astronomy?

Actually I know as much about the origin and direction of the universe as the clowns who wrote books explaining the universe then were forced to admit that It is all wrong..... Books only suckers bought, silly me I bought apples

CIAO CHARLIE

Try again

Willful ignorance (like yours) is the worst kind.

Actually very few people who bought apple are considered ignorant.

But you stay there in your little shell and be happy
AAPL

Let us know how your black hole singularity stocks are working out 4 U

Look, if you want to talk about stocks, start threads on stocks. Some igmo started this one about astronomy, and on that subject, you're woefully ignorant.

Dude this thread is about the ignorance of astronomers who have been making up nonsense after nonsense and none of them agree with the other. This thread is about FAILED MATH created by fools spending their lives being failures. There can be no serious answer to the beginning or direction of the universe until we know what the hell the universe is. No one does, 40 PhD's or not no one knows.

Now grow up

You're complaining about the work astronomers are doing at the edges, the extremes, and claiming we know nothing. You're flat out wrong, and I've given you enough information to clue you in, but unless you learn from it, you won't get anywhere. Now go start some threads about trades where you can learn more.

 

[Frannie]

Actually I know as much about the origin and direction of the universe as the clowns who wrote books explaining the universe then were forced to admit that It is all wrong..... Books only suckers bought, silly me I bought apples

CIAO CHARLIE

Try again

Willful ignorance (like yours) is the worst kind.

Actually very few people who bought apple are considered ignorant.

But you stay there in your little shell and be happy
AAPL

Let us know how your black hole singularity stocks are working out 4 U

Look, if you want to talk about stocks, start threads on stocks. Some igmo started this one about astronomy, and on that subject, you're woefully ignorant.

Dude this thread is about the ignorance of astronomers who have been making up nonsense after nonsense and none of them agree with the other. This thread is about FAILED MATH created by fools spending their lives being failures. There can be no serious answer to the beginning or direction of the universe until we know what the hell the universe is. No one does, 40 PhD's or not no one knows.

Now grow up

You're complaining about the work astronomers are doing at the edges, the extremes, and claiming we know nothing. You're flat out wrong, and I've given you enough information to clue you in, but unless you learn from it, you won't get anywhere. Now go start some threads about trades where you can learn more.

Tell us then what is known about the universe?

You left out everything you claim is real, likely because you know you can't reference anything without becoming more foolish than u already r.

Where is the missing 85 percent of the u
Is there any mass at all if the u is simulated
What is the big magnet outside the u replacing the 85 percent
Where does space end and the next multiverse begin

Stocks, the best trades are the ones bought and never traded, with no taxes, with splits and dividends and governmental breakups creating new stocks

La la la

 

[hadit]

Willful ignorance (like yours) is the worst kind.

Actually very few people who bought apple are considered ignorant.

But you stay there in your little shell and be happy
AAPL

Let us know how your black hole singularity stocks are working out 4 U

Look, if you want to talk about stocks, start threads on stocks. Some igmo started this one about astronomy, and on that subject, you're woefully ignorant.

Dude this thread is about the ignorance of astronomers who have been making up nonsense after nonsense and none of them agree with the other. This thread is about FAILED MATH created by fools spending their lives being failures. There can be no serious answer to the beginning or direction of the universe until we know what the hell the universe is. No one does, 40 PhD's or not no one knows.

Now grow up

You're complaining about the work astronomers are doing at the edges, the extremes, and claiming we know nothing. You're flat out wrong, and I've given you enough information to clue you in, but unless you learn from it, you won't get anywhere. Now go start some threads about trades where you can learn more.

Tell us then what is known about the universe?

You left out everything you claim is real, likely because you know you can't reference anything without becoming more foolish than u already r.

Where is the missing 85 percent of the u
Is there any mass at all if the u is simulated
What is the big magnet outside the u replacing the 85 percent
Where does space end and the next multiverse begin

Stocks, the best trades are the ones bought and never traded, with no taxes, with splits and dividends and governmental breakups creating new stocks

La la la

Yes, I see you trying futilely to shut out anything that may cause you to learn something. Now go, start your threads about trades and the markets. Try to sound educated.

 

[Frannie]

Actually very few people who bought apple are considered ignorant.

But you stay there in your little shell and be happy
AAPL

Let us know how your black hole singularity stocks are working out 4 U

Look, if you want to talk about stocks, start threads on stocks. Some igmo started this one about astronomy, and on that subject, you're woefully ignorant.

Dude this thread is about the ignorance of astronomers who have been making up nonsense after nonsense and none of them agree with the other. This thread is about FAILED MATH created by fools spending their lives being failures. There can be no serious answer to the beginning or direction of the universe until we know what the hell the universe is. No one does, 40 PhD's or not no one knows.

Now grow up

You're complaining about the work astronomers are doing at the edges, the extremes, and claiming we know nothing. You're flat out wrong, and I've given you enough information to clue you in, but unless you learn from it, you won't get anywhere. Now go start some threads about trades where you can learn more.

Tell us then what is known about the universe?

You left out everything you claim is real, likely because you know you can't reference anything without becoming more foolish than u already r.

Where is the missing 85 percent of the u
Is there any mass at all if the u is simulated
What is the big magnet outside the u replacing the 85 percent
Where does space end and the next multiverse begin

Stocks, the best trades are the ones bought and never traded, with no taxes, with splits and dividends and governmental breakups creating new stocks

La la la

Yes, I see you trying futilely to shut out anything that may cause you to learn something. Now go, start your threads about trades and the markets. Try to sound educated.

Have you always been a follower instead of a leader?

Ya know from a purely theoretical perspective, you could start your own thread, instead of childishly demanding that I start the thread you choose and think like the 8th grader that you are.

 

[hadit]

Look, if you want to talk about stocks, start threads on stocks. Some igmo started this one about astronomy, and on that subject, you're woefully ignorant.

Dude this thread is about the ignorance of astronomers who have been making up nonsense after nonsense and none of them agree with the other. This thread is about FAILED MATH created by fools spending their lives being failures. There can be no serious answer to the beginning or direction of the universe until we know what the hell the universe is. No one does, 40 PhD's or not no one knows.

Now grow up

You're complaining about the work astronomers are doing at the edges, the extremes, and claiming we know nothing. You're flat out wrong, and I've given you enough information to clue you in, but unless you learn from it, you won't get anywhere. Now go start some threads about trades where you can learn more.

Tell us then what is known about the universe?

You left out everything you claim is real, likely because you know you can't reference anything without becoming more foolish than u already r.

Where is the missing 85 percent of the u
Is there any mass at all if the u is simulated
What is the big magnet outside the u replacing the 85 percent
Where does space end and the next multiverse begin

Stocks, the best trades are the ones bought and never traded, with no taxes, with splits and dividends and governmental breakups creating new stocks

La la la

Yes, I see you trying futilely to shut out anything that may cause you to learn something. Now go, start your threads about trades and the markets. Try to sound educated.

Have you always been a follower instead of a leader?

Ya know from a purely theoretical perspective, you could start your own thread, instead of childishly demanding that I start the thread you choose and think like the 8th grader that you are.

Here's the deal. You started this thread on astronomy, now you want to talk about stock trading, but instead of starting threads on that, you get upset that I keep talking about, and exposing your ignorance about, astronomy, in this thread debited to astronomy.

Now, have you figured out how spectroscopy allows us to gain an understanding of the elements present in the atmosphere of a hot Jupiter?

Have you figured out that even amateur astronomers can put a motor drive on their telescopes that precisely counter the Earth's rotation and allow them to observe an object for long periods of time?

These are basic fundamentals of modern astronomy that you expressed ignorance of.

 

[Frannie]

Dude this thread is about the ignorance of astronomers who have been making up nonsense after nonsense and none of them agree with the other. This thread is about FAILED MATH created by fools spending their lives being failures. There can be no serious answer to the beginning or direction of the universe until we know what the hell the universe is. No one does, 40 PhD's or not no one knows.

Now grow up

You're complaining about the work astronomers are doing at the edges, the extremes, and claiming we know nothing. You're flat out wrong, and I've given you enough information to clue you in, but unless you learn from it, you won't get anywhere. Now go start some threads about trades where you can learn more.

Tell us then what is known about the universe?

You left out everything you claim is real, likely because you know you can't reference anything without becoming more foolish than u already r.

Where is the missing 85 percent of the u
Is there any mass at all if the u is simulated
What is the big magnet outside the u replacing the 85 percent
Where does space end and the next multiverse begin

Stocks, the best trades are the ones bought and never traded, with no taxes, with splits and dividends and governmental breakups creating new stocks

La la la

Yes, I see you trying futilely to shut out anything that may cause you to learn something. Now go, start your threads about trades and the markets. Try to sound educated.

Have you always been a follower instead of a leader?

Ya know from a purely theoretical perspective, you could start your own thread, instead of childishly demanding that I start the thread you choose and think like the 8th grader that you are.

Here's the deal. You started this thread on astronomy, now you want to talk about stock trading, but instead of starting threads on that, you get upset that I keep talking about, and exposing your ignorance about, astronomy, in this thread debited to astronomy.

Now, have you figured out how spectroscopy allows us to gain an understanding of the elements present in the atmosphere of a hot Jupiter?

Have you figured out that even amateur astronomers can put a motor drive on their telescopes that precisely counter the Earth's rotation and allow them to observe an object for long periods of time?

These are basic fundamentals of modern astronomy that you expressed ignorance of.

This is not an astronomy thread, it is astronomers make up shit to justify Grant's and tuition thread.

You are a spoiled fool who actually thinks in error that you have either the ability or right to tell me what I should think and write.

I have complete freedom of expression, always have. It does not please everyone now or did it ever.

Now you go play with your toys while I consider adding to my defense portfolio, and keep me updated on the multiverse pulling galaxies toward it because 85 percent of gravity exerting mass and energy got lost by your astronomer

CIAO

 

[Mac1958]

If you understood one word of the article you would know that you are in denial of the unknown truth.

What is the "unknown truth"?

 

[Frannie]

If you understood one word of the article you would know that you are in denial of the unknown truth.

What is the "unknown truth"?

What is the known truth about the universe?

I do not know the unknown, sorry kid

 

[G.T.]

You don't understand the difference between what we know, what we're learning and how the process works. Of course perspective matters, and you have the perspective of a mole opining on what lies above the ground. Open your eyes and learn something, you might be more interesting.

And you do not comprehend Boeing's defense contracts implications to stock value.

I proved that the people doing astronomical math can't agree and or find any answer. However you stay there in the multiverse, I'm gonna stick to Earth

So you're going to stop pretending that you know something about astronomy?

Actually I know as much about the origin and direction of the universe as the clowns who wrote books explaining the universe then were forced to admit that It is all wrong..... Books only suckers bought, silly me I bought apples

CIAO CHARLIE

Try again

Willful ignorance (like yours) is the worst kind.

Actually very few people who bought apple are considered ignorant.

But you stay there in your little shell and be happy
AAPL

Let us know how your black hole singularity stocks are working out 4 U

wonder if there's a reason your graph stops 7+ years ago, dopey

 

[Frannie]

And you do not comprehend Boeing's defense contracts implications to stock value.

I proved that the people doing astronomical math can't agree and or find any answer. However you stay there in the multiverse, I'm gonna stick to Earth

So you're going to stop pretending that you know something about astronomy?

Actually I know as much about the origin and direction of the universe as the clowns who wrote books explaining the universe then were forced to admit that It is all wrong..... Books only suckers bought, silly me I bought apples

CIAO CHARLIE

Try again

Willful ignorance (like yours) is the worst kind.

Actually very few people who bought apple are considered ignorant.

But you stay there in your little shell and be happy
AAPL

Let us know how your black hole singularity stocks are working out 4 U

wonder if there's a reason your graph stops 7+ years ago, dopey

Wonder why you are interested?

Sillypoo

 

[G.T.]

So you're going to stop pretending that you know something about astronomy?

Actually I know as much about the origin and direction of the universe as the clowns who wrote books explaining the universe then were forced to admit that It is all wrong..... Books only suckers bought, silly me I bought apples

CIAO CHARLIE

Try again

Willful ignorance (like yours) is the worst kind.

Actually very few people who bought apple are considered ignorant.

But you stay there in your little shell and be happy
AAPL

Let us know how your black hole singularity stocks are working out 4 U

wonder if there's a reason your graph stops 7+ years ago, dopey

Wonder why you are interested?

Sillypoo

It's just fun to mess around with irony - you're an idiot to an egregious degree, and somehow your autism has you here on the interwebs thinking that you're Saiyon Jesus. It's hilarious, and sad. A turbo-mixture.

 

[hadit]

You're complaining about the work astronomers are doing at the edges, the extremes, and claiming we know nothing. You're flat out wrong, and I've given you enough information to clue you in, but unless you learn from it, you won't get anywhere. Now go start some threads about trades where you can learn more.

Tell us then what is known about the universe?

You left out everything you claim is real, likely because you know you can't reference anything without becoming more foolish than u already r.

Where is the missing 85 percent of the u
Is there any mass at all if the u is simulated
What is the big magnet outside the u replacing the 85 percent
Where does space end and the next multiverse begin

Stocks, the best trades are the ones bought and never traded, with no taxes, with splits and dividends and governmental breakups creating new stocks

La la la

Yes, I see you trying futilely to shut out anything that may cause you to learn something. Now go, start your threads about trades and the markets. Try to sound educated.

Have you always been a follower instead of a leader?

Ya know from a purely theoretical perspective, you could start your own thread, instead of childishly demanding that I start the thread you choose and think like the 8th grader that you are.

Here's the deal. You started this thread on astronomy, now you want to talk about stock trading, but instead of starting threads on that, you get upset that I keep talking about, and exposing your ignorance about, astronomy, in this thread debited to astronomy.

Now, have you figured out how spectroscopy allows us to gain an understanding of the elements present in the atmosphere of a hot Jupiter?

Have you figured out that even amateur astronomers can put a motor drive on their telescopes that precisely counter the Earth's rotation and allow them to observe an object for long periods of time?

These are basic fundamentals of modern astronomy that you expressed ignorance of.

This is not an astronomy thread, it is astronomers make up shit to justify Grant's and tuition thread.

You are a spoiled fool who actually thinks in error that you have either the ability or right to tell me what I should think and write.

I have complete freedom of expression, always have. It does not please everyone now or did it ever.

Now you go play with your toys while I consider adding to my defense portfolio, and keep me updated on the multiverse pulling galaxies toward it because 85 percent of gravity exerting mass and energy got lost by your astronomer

CIAO

Let's see if we have this straight. You start a thread on astronomy and your complaints that astronomers are coming up with theories to explain things they don't yet fully understand, you think the fact that other astronomers test those theories, verify some of them and prove some of them wrong means they don't understand anything at all, but you don't want to talk about astronomy any more because I took all your fun away by proving you wrong over and over again. Now you want to talk about stock trading, but don't want to start threads about it so you get upset that people are still talking about astronomy in the thread you started on astronomy.

Is that about the size of it?

And I've noticed that you have a pattern of making dumb statements then refusing to deal with them when they're shown to be ludicrously wrong.

 

[deanrd]

One Number Shows Something Is Fundamentally Wrong with Our Conception of the Universe

None of the numbers match, why? because as I said no one has even the least clue what they are looking at so every week there is a new universe invented.

There's a puzzling mystery going on in the universe. Measurements of the rate of cosmic expansion using different methods keep turning up disagreeing results. The situation has been called a "crisis."

The problem centers on what's known as the Hubble constant. Named for American astronomer Edwin Hubble, this unit describes how fast the universe is expanding at different distances from Earth. Using data from the European Space Agency's (ESA) Planck satellite, scientists estimate the rate to be 46,200 mph per million light-years (or, using cosmologists' units, 67.4 kilometers/second per megaparsec). But calculations using pulsating stars called Cepheids suggest it is 50,400 mph per million light-years (73.4 km/s/Mpc).

If the first number is right, it means scientists have been measuring distances to faraway objects in the universe wrong for many decades. But if the second is correct, then researchers might have to accept the existence of exotic, new physics. Astronomers, understandably, are pretty worked up about this discrepancy.

What is a layperson supposed to make of this situation? And just how important is this difference, which to outsiders looks minor? In order to get to the bottom of the clash, Live Science called in Barry Madore, an astronomer at the University of Chicago and a member of one of the teams undertaking measurements of the Hubble constant.

The trouble starts with Edwin Hubble himself. Back in 1929, he noticed that more-distant galaxies were moving away from Earth faster than their closer-in counterparts. He found a linear relationship between the distance an object was from our planet and the speed at which it was receding.

"That means something spooky is going on," Madore told Live Science. "Why would we be the center of the universe? The answer, which is not intuitive, is that [distant objects are] not moving. There's more and more space being created between everything."

Hubble realized that the universe was expanding, and it seemed to be doing so at a constant rate — hence, the Hubble constant. He measured the value to be about 342,000 miles per hour per million light years (501 km/s/Mpc) — almost 10 times larger than what is currently measured. Over the years, researchers have refined that rate.

Things got weirder in the late 1990s, when two teams of astronomers noticed that distant supernovas were dimmer, and therefore farther away, than expected, said Madore. This indicated that not only was the universe expanding, but it was also accelerating in its expansion. Astronomers named the cause of this mysterious phenomenon dark energy.

Having accepted that the universe was doing something strange, cosmologists turned to the next obvious task: measuring the acceleration as accurately as possible. By doing this, they hoped to retrace the history and evolution of the cosmos from start to finish.

Madore likened this task to walking into a racetrack and getting a single glimpse of the horses running around the field. From just that bit of information, could somebody deduce where all the horses started and which one of them would win?

That kind of question may sound impossible to answer, but that hasn't stopped scientists from trying. For the last 10 years, the Planck satellite has been measuring the cosmic microwave background, a distant echo of the Big Bang, which provides a snapshot of the infant universe 13 billion years ago. Using the observatory's data, cosmologists could ascertain a number for the Hubble constant with an extraordinarily small degree of uncertainty.

"It's beautiful," Madore said. But, "it contradicts what people have been doing for the last 30 years," said Madore.

Over those three decades, astronomers have also been using telescopes to look at distant Cepheids and calculate the Hubble constant. These stars flicker at a constant rate depending on their brightness, so researchers can tell exactly how bright a Cepheid should be based on its pulsations. By looking at how dim the stars actually are, astronomers can calculate a distance to them. But estimates of the Hubble constant using Cepheids don't match the one from Planck.

The discrepancy might look fairly small, but each data point is quite precise and there is no overlap between their uncertainties. The differing sides have pointed fingers at one another, saying that their opponents have included errors throwing off their results, said Madore.

But, he added, each result also depends on large numbers of assumptions. Going back to the horse-race analogy, Madore likened it to trying to figure out the winner while having to infer which horse will get tired first, which will gain a sudden burst of energy at the end, which will slip a bit on the wet patch of grass from yesterday's rain and many other difficult-to-determine variables.

If the Cepheids teams are wrong, that means astronomers have been measuring distances in the universe incorrectly this whole time, Madore said. But if Planck is wrong, then it's possible that new and exotic physics would have to be introduced into cosmologists' models of the universe, he added. These models include different dials, such as the number of types of subatomic particles known as neutrinos in existence, and they are used to interpret the satellite's data of the cosmic microwave background. To reconcile the Planck value for the Hubble constant with existing models, some of the dials would have to be tweaked, Madore said, but most physicists aren’t quite willing to do so yet.

Hoping to provide another data point that could mediate between the two sides, Madore and his colleagues recently looked at the light of red giant stars. These objects reach the same peak brightness at the end of their lives, meaning that, like with the Cepheids, astronomers can look at how dim they appear from Earth to get a good estimate of their distance and, therefore, calculate the Hubble constant.

The results, released in July, provided a number squarely between the two prior measurements: 47,300 mph per million light-years (69.8 km/s/Mpc). And the uncertainty contained enough overlap to potentially agree with Planck's results.

But researchers aren't popping their champagne corks yet, said Madore. "We wanted to make a tie breaker," he said. "But it didn't say this side or that side is right. It said there was a lot more slop than everybody thought before."

Other teams have weighed in. A group called H0 Lenses in COSMOGRAIL's Wellspring (H0LICOW) is looking at distant bright objects in the early universe called quasars whose light has been gravitationally lensed by massive objects in between us and them. By studying these quasars, the group recently came up with an estimate closer to the astronomers' side. Information from the Laser Interferometer Gravitational-Wave Observatory (LIGO), which looks at gravitational waves from crashing neutron stars, could provide another independent data point. But such calculations are still in their early stages, said Madore, and have yet to reach full maturity.

For his part, Madore said he thinks the middle number between Planck and the astronomers' value will eventually prevail, though he wouldn't wager too much on that possibility at the moment. But until some conclusion is found, he would like to see researchers' attitudes toned down a bit.

"A lot of froth has been put on top of this by people who insist they're right," he said. "It's sufficiently important that it needs to be resolved, but it's going to take time."

Well that's a whole lot of words to say, we just don't know...………………..

But you do right?

LOL!..as if you understand one word in three of what you copied and pasted! have you somehow appointed yourself the Science Troll??

He said the universe is expanding at a constant rate. First time I ever heard anybody say that.