CDZ Solar Buy Back Systems

[Leo123]

Not sure if this belongs here but Mods can move it if they want. I was wondering why my electric utility rates have not gone down with the recent influx of these 'Net Metering" utility credit systems. If fewer folks are relying on less actual grid energy AND generating energy TO the electric utility then why, do rates continue to go up for the folks that can't afford such systems or are in areas with trees that block sunlight? Anyone?

 

[flacaltenn]

Not sure if this belongs here but Mods can move it if they want. I was wondering why my electric utility rates have not gone down with the recent influx of these 'Net Metering" utility credit systems. If fewer folks are relying on less actual grid energy AND generating energy TO the electric utility then why, do rates continue to go up for the folks that can't afford such systems or are in areas with trees that block sunlight? Anyone?

Folks with home solar are not GIVING the excess they dont use during daylight to the power companies. They are getting credits towards their usage on the other 16 hours a day that solar is not there. They are not getting the SAME RATE as the companies charge users, but there is no net benefit to anyone else in their customer base..

 

[Ringel05]

Not sure if this belongs here but Mods can move it if they want. I was wondering why my electric utility rates have not gone down with the recent influx of these 'Net Metering" utility credit systems. If fewer folks are relying on less actual grid energy AND generating energy TO the electric utility then why, do rates continue to go up for the folks that can't afford such systems or are in areas with trees that block sunlight? Anyone?

We decided not to buy one house we really liked because it had an existing solar lease.

Found this:

Solar Panels: Another Taxpayer Rip-Off - IER

 

[Ringel05]

Not sure if this belongs here but Mods can move it if they want. I was wondering why my electric utility rates have not gone down with the recent influx of these 'Net Metering" utility credit systems. If fewer folks are relying on less actual grid energy AND generating energy TO the electric utility then why, do rates continue to go up for the folks that can't afford such systems or are in areas with trees that block sunlight? Anyone?

Folks with home solar are not GIVING the excess they dont use during daylight to the power companies. They are getting credits towards their usage on the other 16 hours a day that solar is not there. They are not getting the SAME RATE as the companies charge users, but there is no net benefit to anyone else in their customer base..

Not only is there no benefit for non-solar customers there's a net loss as we non-solar customers pick up the tab; "because solar panel owners do not pay their full cost, non-solar home owners are subsidizing them through their electricity bills."
See link in post #3.

 

[Leo123]

We decided not to buy one house we really liked because it had an existing solar lease.

Found this:

My buddy in AZ leased a system. He regrets it. I think you made a good decision. Unless your purchase contract clearly stated that the solar system was to be 100% paid off AND maintenance included I would not have gone for it either. Good on you!!

 

[Leo123]

Folks with home solar are not GIVING the excess they dont use during daylight to the power companies. They are getting credits towards their usage on the other 16 hours a day that solar is not there. They are not getting the SAME RATE as the companies charge users, but there is no net benefit to anyone else in their customer base..

OK but, the power company does not have to provide as much electric energy because SOME users have paid for a net metering system. Also, why are not those with net metering charged the same rate? WTF?

 

[progressive hunter]

Not sure if this belongs here but Mods can move it if they want. I was wondering why my electric utility rates have not gone down with the recent influx of these 'Net Metering" utility credit systems. If fewer folks are relying on less actual grid energy AND generating energy TO the electric utility then why, do rates continue to go up for the folks that can't afford such systems or are in areas with trees that block sunlight? Anyone?

Folks with home solar are not GIVING the excess they dont use during daylight to the power companies. They are getting credits towards their usage on the other 16 hours a day that solar is not there. They are not getting the SAME RATE as the companies charge users, but there is no net benefit to anyone else in their customer base..

Not only is there no benefit for non-solar customers there's a net loss as we non-solar customers pick up the tab; "because solar panel owners do not pay their full cost, non-solar home owners are subsidizing them through their electricity bills."
See link in post #3.

thats not completely true,, non solar people dont flip the tab for anything and dont get a reduction,, the solar users depending on the agreement can get a check if their credits add up beyond expected usage for a designated period of time,,

the overall benefit is only in high use areas where the solar users arent creating an added burden on the system like in the southwest where sun days are the highest

 

[Ringel05]

Not sure if this belongs here but Mods can move it if they want. I was wondering why my electric utility rates have not gone down with the recent influx of these 'Net Metering" utility credit systems. If fewer folks are relying on less actual grid energy AND generating energy TO the electric utility then why, do rates continue to go up for the folks that can't afford such systems or are in areas with trees that block sunlight? Anyone?

Folks with home solar are not GIVING the excess they dont use during daylight to the power companies. They are getting credits towards their usage on the other 16 hours a day that solar is not there. They are not getting the SAME RATE as the companies charge users, but there is no net benefit to anyone else in their customer base..

Not only is there no benefit for non-solar customers there's a net loss as we non-solar customers pick up the tab; "because solar panel owners do not pay their full cost, non-solar home owners are subsidizing them through their electricity bills."
See link in post #3.

thats not completely true,, non solar people dont flip the tab for anything and dont get a reduction,, the solar users depending on the agreement can get a check if their credits add up beyond expected usage for a designated period of time,,

the overall benefit is only in high use areas where the solar users arent creating an added burden on the system like in the southwest where sun days are the highest

I'm just relaying what's in the article.

 

[Leo123]

thats not completely true,, non solar people dont flip the tab for anything and dont get a reduction,, the solar users depending on the agreement can get a check if their credits add up beyond expected usage for a designated period of time,,

the overall benefit is only in high use areas where the solar users aren't creating an added burden on the system like in the southwest where sun days are the highest

Bottom line, IMO....If ya got the bucks, BUY a net metering system. If not, you're pretty much gonna pay 'reddy-watt'

whatever 'reddy-watt' says. Just don't ever shake hands with him. Take it from me.

 

[progressive hunter]

thats not completely true,, non solar people dont flip the tab for anything and dont get a reduction,, the solar users depending on the agreement can get a check if their credits add up beyond expected usage for a designated period of time,,

the overall benefit is only in high use areas where the solar users arent creating an added burden on the system like in the southwest where sun days are the highest

Bottom line, IMO....If ya got the bucks, BUY a net metering system. If not, you're pretty much gonna pay 'redi-watt' whatever 'redi-watt' says.

I may have spoke to fast,, I am not sure the difference in a grid tie system and this net meter system,,

from what I hear from the solar people on youtube if you cant afford to purchase fully dont get it, both the lease and interest on any loan will eat up any profit or benefit from it,,

 

[flacaltenn]

Not sure if this belongs here but Mods can move it if they want. I was wondering why my electric utility rates have not gone down with the recent influx of these 'Net Metering" utility credit systems. If fewer folks are relying on less actual grid energy AND generating energy TO the electric utility then why, do rates continue to go up for the folks that can't afford such systems or are in areas with trees that block sunlight? Anyone?

We decided not to buy one house we really liked because it had an existing solar lease.

Found this:

Solar Panels: Another Taxpayer Rip-Off - IER

What consumers don't know -- is that solar isn't actually powering their home, or at least not for the other 16 hours a day that sun is not producing much power.. Instead, if you GO home solar -- you are now in the "energy business".. And it IS rigged to a large extent..

If you're NOT HOME during the day -- and USING that power straight away -- or double the cost of installation by adding say four hours of battery storage -- the energy company is making money on you !!! Not the other way around. They buy wholesale and sell to others retail..

And the "lease" situation is even worse, since you never OWN those panels. So somebody else is also getting a share. And the electric company cuts you no slack for cloudy days or snow/ice days when you're not generating,.

If you DO LIVE at home during the day or maybe charge an EV there during the day -- then to have to any EXCESS TO SELL BACK to the electric company -- you need to invest in BIGGER PANELS and maybe bigger storage to offset your "non-daylight" peak usage.

Feel like an energy magnate? Have a go at it.. It'll be 15 years to recoup cost. And that's if you dont live in a hail/tornado area and risk total loss or the panels dont make it to their expected 20 to 25 year end of life...

 

[Leo123]

What consumers don't know -- is that solar isn't actually powering their home, or at least not for the other 16 hours a day that sun is not producing much power.. Instead, if you GO home solar -- you are now in the "energy business".. And it IS rigged to a large extent..

If you're NOT HOME during the day -- and USING that power straight away -- or double the cost of installation by adding say four hours of battery storage -- the energy company is making money on you !!! Not the other way around. They buy wholesale and sell to others retail..

And the "lease" situation is even worse, since you never OWN those panels. So somebody else is also getting a share. And the electric company cuts you no slack for cloudy days or snow/ice days when you're not generating,.

If you DO LIVE at home during the day or maybe charge an EV there during the day -- then to have to any EXCESS TO SELL BACK to the electric company -- you need to invest in BIGGER PANELS and maybe bigger storage to offset your "non-daylight" peak usage.

Feel like an energy magnate? Have a go at it.. It'll be 15 years to recoup cost. And that's if you dont live in a hail/tornado area and risk total loss or the panels dont make it to their expected 20 to 25 year end of life...

Good info....Thanks. There are a lot of rural folks I know that have opted to go with net metering because they have the money and they also have installed lithium batteries for power backup.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Not sure if this belongs here but Mods can move it if they want. I was wondering why my electric utility rates have not gone down with the recent influx of these 'Net Metering" utility credit systems. If fewer folks are relying on less actual grid energy AND generating energy TO the electric utility then why, do rates continue to go up for the folks that can't afford such systems or are in areas with trees that block sunlight? Anyone?

We decided not to buy one house we really liked because it had an existing solar lease.

Found this:

Solar Panels: Another Taxpayer Rip-Off - IER

What consumers don't know -- is that solar isn't actually powering their home, or at least not for the other 16 hours a day that sun is not producing much power.. Instead, if you GO home solar -- you are now in the "energy business".. And it IS rigged to a large extent..

If you're NOT HOME during the day -- and USING that power straight away -- or double the cost of installation by adding say four hours of battery storage -- the energy company is making money on you !!! Not the other way around. They buy wholesale and sell to others retail..

And the "lease" situation is even worse, since you never OWN those panels. So somebody else is also getting a share. And the electric company cuts you no slack for cloudy days or snow/ice days when you're not generating,.

If you DO LIVE at home during the day or maybe charge an EV there during the day -- then to have to any EXCESS TO SELL BACK to the electric company -- you need to invest in BIGGER PANELS and maybe bigger storage to offset your "non-daylight" peak usage.

Feel like an energy magnate? Have a go at it.. It'll be 15 years to recoup cost. And that's if you dont live in a hail/tornado area and risk total loss or the panels dont make it to their expected 20 to 25 year end of life...

My mother recouped the cost of her solar system in ~5 years. It's all subsidized, of course-without that, the payback was never.

 

[MarathonMike]

Not sure if this belongs here but Mods can move it if they want. I was wondering why my electric utility rates have not gone down with the recent influx of these 'Net Metering" utility credit systems. If fewer folks are relying on less actual grid energy AND generating energy TO the electric utility then why, do rates continue to go up for the folks that can't afford such systems or are in areas with trees that block sunlight? Anyone?

We decided not to buy one house we really liked because it had an existing solar lease.

Found this:

Solar Panels: Another Taxpayer Rip-Off - IER

Very interesting thanks for posting that!

 

[flacaltenn]

Not sure if this belongs here but Mods can move it if they want. I was wondering why my electric utility rates have not gone down with the recent influx of these 'Net Metering" utility credit systems. If fewer folks are relying on less actual grid energy AND generating energy TO the electric utility then why, do rates continue to go up for the folks that can't afford such systems or are in areas with trees that block sunlight? Anyone?

We decided not to buy one house we really liked because it had an existing solar lease.

Found this:

Solar Panels: Another Taxpayer Rip-Off - IER

What consumers don't know -- is that solar isn't actually powering their home, or at least not for the other 16 hours a day that sun is not producing much power.. Instead, if you GO home solar -- you are now in the "energy business".. And it IS rigged to a large extent..

If you're NOT HOME during the day -- and USING that power straight away -- or double the cost of installation by adding say four hours of battery storage -- the energy company is making money on you !!! Not the other way around. They buy wholesale and sell to others retail..

And the "lease" situation is even worse, since you never OWN those panels. So somebody else is also getting a share. And the electric company cuts you no slack for cloudy days or snow/ice days when you're not generating,.

If you DO LIVE at home during the day or maybe charge an EV there during the day -- then to have to any EXCESS TO SELL BACK to the electric company -- you need to invest in BIGGER PANELS and maybe bigger storage to offset your "non-daylight" peak usage.

Feel like an energy magnate? Have a go at it.. It'll be 15 years to recoup cost. And that's if you dont live in a hail/tornado area and risk total loss or the panels dont make it to their expected 20 to 25 year end of life...

My mother recouped the cost of her solar system in ~5 years. It's all subsidized, of course-without that, the payback was never.

Subsidies are being phased out.. And maybe the morons will reinstate them. I hate to see home owners getting into the energy biz with a NORMAL 15 year pay back.. Especially if it makes roof repairs more expensive or you lose them to some kind of weather damage.

Just like Big Oil.. We now have a REALLY SUBSIDIZED Big Wind and Big Solar. Warren Buffet often said that without subsidies no one but idiots would invest in wind..

 

[progressive hunter]

Not sure if this belongs here but Mods can move it if they want. I was wondering why my electric utility rates have not gone down with the recent influx of these 'Net Metering" utility credit systems. If fewer folks are relying on less actual grid energy AND generating energy TO the electric utility then why, do rates continue to go up for the folks that can't afford such systems or are in areas with trees that block sunlight? Anyone?

We decided not to buy one house we really liked because it had an existing solar lease.

Found this:

Solar Panels: Another Taxpayer Rip-Off - IER

What consumers don't know -- is that solar isn't actually powering their home, or at least not for the other 16 hours a day that sun is not producing much power.. Instead, if you GO home solar -- you are now in the "energy business".. And it IS rigged to a large extent..

If you're NOT HOME during the day -- and USING that power straight away -- or double the cost of installation by adding say four hours of battery storage -- the energy company is making money on you !!! Not the other way around. They buy wholesale and sell to others retail..

And the "lease" situation is even worse, since you never OWN those panels. So somebody else is also getting a share. And the electric company cuts you no slack for cloudy days or snow/ice days when you're not generating,.

If you DO LIVE at home during the day or maybe charge an EV there during the day -- then to have to any EXCESS TO SELL BACK to the electric company -- you need to invest in BIGGER PANELS and maybe bigger storage to offset your "non-daylight" peak usage.

Feel like an energy magnate? Have a go at it.. It'll be 15 years to recoup cost. And that's if you dont live in a hail/tornado area and risk total loss or the panels dont make it to their expected 20 to 25 year end of life...

thats not completely true,,

how much they pay back is dependent on where you live and the agreement,, most pay you exactly what you pay them, where they pay wholesale is in places that buy from another source and dont produce themselves,, and the time to recoup also varies,, if youre in the southwest with a lot of sun days you get it back in 5-10 yrs but up north is where it gets closer to 15 yrs, and if you get a good price and install yourself the recoup time is even faster,,
I just set up a mini system for the chicken coop and garden area and the panels have a 15 yr warranty and a 25 yr expected life span

 

[AZrailwhale]

thats not completely true,, non solar people dont flip the tab for anything and dont get a reduction,, the solar users depending on the agreement can get a check if their credits add up beyond expected usage for a designated period of time,,

the overall benefit is only in high use areas where the solar users arent creating an added burden on the system like in the southwest where sun days are the highest

Bottom line, IMO....If ya got the bucks, BUY a net metering system. If not, you're pretty much gonna pay 'redi-watt' whatever 'redi-watt' says.

I may have spoke to fast,, I am not sure the difference in a grid tie system and this net meter system,,

from what I hear from the solar people on youtube if you cant afford to purchase fully dont get it, both the lease and interest on any loan will eat up any profit or benefit from it,,

Correct, I bought my system outright. The electric companies still get over. They pay me less for each kilowatt hour that I sell them than they charge me for the ones I buy on off hours. If you lease a system, you are still paying, but the money gets split between the leasing company and the power company.

 

[DudleySmith]

Electric Power Monthly - U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA)

www.eia.gov

A useful site for comparisons of prices nation-wide and usage.

One thing that stands out is that even if the power itself was free, in most places your costs would still be over 75% of what they are now. That's because over 75% of the operational costs and losses are in transmission lines and their maintenance. Nuclear is still the best source, but I wouldn't let an American company build a nuke plant here, or even allow one to be sub-contractor; it should go to a French or German company, who have by far the best track records.

Another option, if you're willing to absorb a few more electrocutions and fires per capita, is go to all 220 or 440 Volt plugs. There is a reason industrial customers get huge breaks in per Kw rates.