So why did the black firefighters perform poorly?

[Ravi]

Refusing to cheat could be considered stupid or lazy in some people's minds...look in the mirror.

And E is nothing but one of your strawmen.

So yes, you are basically saying that all the blacks that took the test are either stupid or lazy.

Black and white world, as usual

 

[manifold]

If you honestly think that, then you are retarded, in the truest sense of the word.

But we both know that you don't. Just another Ravi lie.

 

[American Horse]

Why would they presume that they had a leg up here? Their scores didn't get boosted because they were black.

Because of the expectation of affirmative action....We have been told that what was needed was "Not a hand out but a leg up" - that was a part of the basis for affirmative action from the beginning. And this instance of its failure is what the whole supreme court case is flowing out of, and it's blatant abuse in New Jersey, and a decision that the Supreme Court nominee Sonia Sotomayor made will end up being the beginning of its undoing just as she is esconced on the supreme court.

She, herself, said that she didn't test as well as her competitors in university. She was suggesting and we are led to presume that was because of a bias against people of her ethnicity, yet she was not a child of Puerto Rico, but a child of New York City and its schools, and she earned A's in her final two years of college.

 

[Nik]

Why would they presume that they had a leg up here? Their scores didn't get boosted because they were black.

Because of the expectation of affirmative action....We have been told that what was needed was "Not a hand out but a leg up" - that was a part of the basis for affirmative action from the beginning. And this instance of its failure is what the whole supreme court case is flowing out of, and it's blatant abuse in New Jersey, and a decision that the Supreme Court nominee Sonia Sotomayor made will end up being the beginning of its undoing just as she is esconced on the supreme court.

Nobody has an "expectation" of affirmative action unless its clearly specified that it exists. And, in this case, it didn't exist. This is NOT a case about affirmative action, and that people think it is only shows that they don't know whats going on here.

She, herself, said that she didn't test as well as her competitors in university. She was suggesting and we are led to presume that was because of a bias against people of her ethnicity, yet she was not a child of Puerto Rico, but a child of New York City and its schools, and she earned A's in her final two years of college.

Please provide a link that says she didn't test as well as her competitors because of her ethnicity.

By the way...you ever been to college? You know that most tests aren't standardized? That the professors opinion of you, as an individual, can come into it and they can grade you on that?

 

[Anguille]

As a public school teacher I can say that blacks are definitely not too dumb to pass tests. They are just taught that tests don't matter and only stuoid white people study instead of going out getting pussy.

That's what you teach them in your class?!!

 

[American Horse]

Nobody has an "expectation" of affirmative action unless its clearly specified that it exists. And, in this case, it didn't exist. This is NOT a case about affirmative action, and that people think it is only shows that they don't know whats going on here.

Call it affirmative action or reverse discrimination, or whatever else you choose.
The City authorities decided to ignore the results of the test which the white fireman then contested. To ignore the test results amounted to affirmative action for the black guys - because it was in effect reserving the promotion for them - or it was negative action against the white guys.

She, herself, said that she didn't test as well as her competitors in university. She was suggesting and we are led to presume that was because of a bias against people of her ethnicity, yet she was not a child of Puerto Rico, but a child of New York City and its schools, and she earned A's in her final two years of college.

Please provide a link that says she didn't test as well as her competitors because of her ethnicity.

I don't have a link for every thing I hear or see. I pay attention to public comments made in public by public figures and I heard her say it, as probably did anyone here on this forum who get their information from more than the internet. My use of the words "competitors" and "ethnicity" may not have been used by her, but neither did I indicate it was a direct quote; it was was her implication. She was not saying she was a beneficiary of affirmative action, but she was justifying it with her comment, and that was the thrust of my coimment.

 

[chanel]

As a public school teacher I can say that blacks are definitely not too dumb to pass tests. They are just taught that tests don't matter and only stuoid white people study instead of going out getting pussy.

That's what you teach them in your class?!!

I can assure you that I have never taught them about.getting pussy. Apparently they learn that on the street.

As.for teaching them tests don't matter, the guidance dept tells them that. "If you don't pass, we can always give you an alternative assessment" kinda hard to make them take it seriously when no one else does.Inc. their parents.

 

[Zoom-boing]

As a public school teacher I can say that blacks are definitely not too dumb to pass tests. They are just taught that tests don't matter and only stuoid white people study instead of going out getting pussy.

That's what you teach them in your class?!!

I can assure you that I have never taught them about.getting pussy. Apparently they learn that on the street.

As.for teaching them tests don't matter, the guidance dept tells them that. "If you don't pass, we can always give you an alternative assessment" kinda hard to make them take it seriously when no one else does.Inc. their parents.

This is what happens when the bar is set low.

 

[SunWorshiper]

So why do YOU think the black firefighters performed poorly relative to their white colleagues on the firefighter's promotion eligibility exam?

I'll post a poll, but go ahead and post your thoughts.

They didn't study well enough and the test shouldn't have been set aside in the first place. There's no excuse for that at all.

 

[Nik]

Nobody has an "expectation" of affirmative action unless its clearly specified that it exists. And, in this case, it didn't exist. This is NOT a case about affirmative action, and that people think it is only shows that they don't know whats going on here.

Call it affirmative action or reverse discrimination, or whatever else you choose.
The City authorities decided to ignore the results of the test which the white fireman then contested. To ignore the test results amounted to affirmative action for the black guys - because it was in effect reserving the promotion for them - or it was negative action against the white guys.

Incorrect. Thats NOT affirmative action. Affirmative action is letting blacks into something, although they've had a lesser score in order to increase diversity. What happened here is that the test was considered to be presumptively racist because of the results, and so they discarded it. One system is designed to make up for past racism, or racism that happens elsewhere, one system is designed to correct current racism on the part of this specific test.

She, herself, said that she didn't test as well as her competitors in university. She was suggesting and we are led to presume that was because of a bias against people of her ethnicity, yet she was not a child of Puerto Rico, but a child of New York City and its schools, and she earned A's in her final two years of college.

Please provide a link that says she didn't test as well as her competitors because of her ethnicity.

I don't have a link for every thing I hear or see. I pay attention to public comments made in public by public figures and I heard her say it, as probably did anyone here on this forum who get their information from more than the internet. My use of the words "competitors" and "ethnicity" may not have been used by her, but neither did I indicate it was a direct quote; it was was her implication. She was not saying she was a beneficiary of affirmative action, but she was justifying it with her comment, and that was the thrust of my coimment.

Then I see no reason to believe you are accurately portraying her views.

 

[WhiteLion]

Who doesn't like pussy and more money?

Ha ha Only if the pussy is fertile. But it usually is.

I could give hundreds of examples of black students graduating from high school without ever reading a fucking book. You have to be really smart to do that right? Lol

I can name the same that were given test of standards that werent up to par

 

[Gunny]

So why do YOU think the black firefighters performed poorly relative to their white colleagues on the firefighter's promotion eligibility exam?

I'll post a poll, but go ahead and post your thoughts.

Blacks have, on average, an IQ 15 points lower than whites. This has been known since World War I, when the military first began testing. This difference is largely, as discussed in the Bell Curve, INHERITED. In other words, you can't change it.

So, essentially, whites are punished in our society because blacks are just naturally dumber.

But nobody wants to think about this possibility because it's too scary: whites have invested a lot in the notion that blacks would be as smart as whites if only we stopped being so racist, and blacks have invested a lot in the notion that their problems are whites' fault. Both thoughts are obviously very comforting. But wrong.

The military doesn't give IQ tests.

 

[rdking647]

So why do YOU think the black firefighters performed poorly relative to their white colleagues on the firefighter's promotion eligibility exam?

I'll post a poll, but go ahead and post your thoughts.

Blacks have, on average, an IQ 15 points lower than whites. This has been known since World War I, when the military first began testing. This difference is largely, as discussed in the Bell Curve, INHERITED. In other words, you can't change it.

So, essentially, whites are punished in our society because blacks are just naturally dumber.

But nobody wants to think about this possibility because it's too scary: whites have invested a lot in the notion that blacks would be as smart as whites if only we stopped being so racist, and blacks have invested a lot in the notion that their problems are whites' fault. Both thoughts are obviously very comforting. But wrong.

and you have the IQ of a rock

 

[American Horse]

She, herself, said that she didn't test as well as her competitors in university. She was suggesting and we are led to presume that was because of a bias against people of her ethnicity, yet she was not a child of Puerto Rico, but a child of New York City and its schools, and she earned A's in her final two years of college.

Please provide a link that says she didn't test as well as her competitors because of her ethnicity.

I don't have a link for every thing I hear or see. I pay attention to public comments made in public by public figures and I heard her say it, as probably did anyone here on this forum who get their information from more than the internet. My use of the words "competitors" and "ethnicity" may not have been used by her, but neither did I indicate it was a direct quote; it was was her implication. She was not saying she was a beneficiary of affirmative action, but she was justifying it with her comment, and that was the thrust of my comment.

Then I see no reason to believe you are accurately portraying her views.

Videotaped remarks shed light on Sotomayor

San Francisco Chronicle -
Charlie Savage, New York Times
Thursday, June 11, 2009

Sonia Sotomayor once described herself as "a product of affirmative action" who was admitted to two Ivy League schools despite scoring lower on standardized tests than many classmates, which she attributed to "cultural biases" that are "built into testing."

Those comments were among a trove of videos dating back nearly 25 years that shed new light on Sotomayor's views. She provided the videos to the Senate Judiciary Committee last week as it prepares for her Supreme Court confirmation hearing next month.

The clips include lengthy remarks about her experiences as an "affirmative action baby" whose lower test scores were overlooked by admissions committees at Princeton University and Yale Law School because, she said, she is Latino and had grown up in poor circumstances.

"If we had gone through the traditional numbers route of those institutions, it would have been highly questionable if I would have been accepted," she said on a panel of three female judges from New York who were discussing women in the judiciary. The video is dated "early 1990s" in Senate records.

But Sotomayor insisted that her test scores were subpar - "though not so far off the mark that I wasn't able to succeed at those institutions." Her scores have not been made public.

"With my academic achievement in high school I was accepted rather readily at Princeton and equally as fast at Yale, but my test scores were not comparable to that of my classmates," she said. "And that's been shown by statistics, there are reasons for that - there are cultural biases built into testing, and that was one of the motivations for the concept of affirmative action to try to balance out those effects."

Sotomayor's approach to affirmative action has been the subject of intense scrutiny. Conservatives have criticized her remarks in speeches that her personal experiences will influence her judging.

Nik,

My purpose of paraphrasing her comment in the first place, was to show that she has recently stressed a purported inadequacy on her own part the purpose of which was to show the efficacy of affirmative action, and I would suppose even quotas and reverse discrimination, if I may be so bold, which in her own case was not required.

 

[mattskramer]

So why do YOU think the black firefighters performed poorly relative to their white colleagues on the firefighter's promotion eligibility exam?

I'll post a poll, but go ahead and post your thoughts.

Blacks have, on average, an IQ 15 points lower than whites. This has been known since World War I, when the military first began testing. This difference is largely, as discussed in the Bell Curve, INHERITED. In other words, you can't change it.

So, essentially, whites are punished in our society because blacks are just naturally dumber.

But nobody wants to think about this possibility because it's too scary: whites have invested a lot in the notion that blacks would be as smart as whites if only we stopped being so racist, and blacks have invested a lot in the notion that their problems are whites' fault. Both thoughts are obviously very comforting. But wrong.

Your “The Bell Curve” book has been largely debunked.

The Bell Curve - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Check out “Measured Lies: The Bell Curve Examined” or at least “The Bell Curve Debate”.

 

[Nik]

So why do YOU think the black firefighters performed poorly relative to their white colleagues on the firefighter's promotion eligibility exam?

I'll post a poll, but go ahead and post your thoughts.

Blacks have, on average, an IQ 15 points lower than whites. This has been known since World War I, when the military first began testing. This difference is largely, as discussed in the Bell Curve, INHERITED. In other words, you can't change it.

So, essentially, whites are punished in our society because blacks are just naturally dumber.

But nobody wants to think about this possibility because it's too scary: whites have invested a lot in the notion that blacks would be as smart as whites if only we stopped being so racist, and blacks have invested a lot in the notion that their problems are whites' fault. Both thoughts are obviously very comforting. But wrong.

and you have the IQ of a rock

Ah....but you haven't said the really important thing to WJ.

A white rock, or a black rock?

 

[Nik]

I don't have a link for every thing I hear or see. I pay attention to public comments made in public by public figures and I heard her say it, as probably did anyone here on this forum who get their information from more than the internet. My use of the words "competitors" and "ethnicity" may not have been used by her, but neither did I indicate it was a direct quote; it was was her implication. She was not saying she was a beneficiary of affirmative action, but she was justifying it with her comment, and that was the thrust of my comment.

Then I see no reason to believe you are accurately portraying her views.

Videotaped remarks shed light on Sotomayor

San Francisco Chronicle -
Charlie Savage, New York Times
Thursday, June 11, 2009

Sonia Sotomayor once described herself as "a product of affirmative action" who was admitted to two Ivy League schools despite scoring lower on standardized tests than many classmates, which she attributed to "cultural biases" that are "built into testing."

Those comments were among a trove of videos dating back nearly 25 years that shed new light on Sotomayor's views. She provided the videos to the Senate Judiciary Committee last week as it prepares for her Supreme Court confirmation hearing next month.

The clips include lengthy remarks about her experiences as an "affirmative action baby" whose lower test scores were overlooked by admissions committees at Princeton University and Yale Law School because, she said, she is Latino and had grown up in poor circumstances.

"If we had gone through the traditional numbers route of those institutions, it would have been highly questionable if I would have been accepted," she said on a panel of three female judges from New York who were discussing women in the judiciary. The video is dated "early 1990s" in Senate records.

But Sotomayor insisted that her test scores were subpar - "though not so far off the mark that I wasn't able to succeed at those institutions." Her scores have not been made public.

"With my academic achievement in high school I was accepted rather readily at Princeton and equally as fast at Yale, but my test scores were not comparable to that of my classmates," she said. "And that's been shown by statistics, there are reasons for that - there are cultural biases built into testing, and that was one of the motivations for the concept of affirmative action to try to balance out those effects."

Sotomayor's approach to affirmative action has been the subject of intense scrutiny. Conservatives have criticized her remarks in speeches that her personal experiences will influence her judging.

Nik,

My purpose of paraphrasing her comment in the first place, was to show that she has recently stressed a purported inadequacy on her own part the purpose of which was to show the efficacy of affirmative action, and I would suppose even quotas and reverse discrimination, if I may be so bold, which in her own case was not required.

Thanks for looking that up, I hadn't heard that.

Why do you think she didn't need affirmative action?

 

[rdking647]

Blacks have, on average, an IQ 15 points lower than whites. This has been known since World War I, when the military first began testing. This difference is largely, as discussed in the Bell Curve, INHERITED. In other words, you can't change it.

So, essentially, whites are punished in our society because blacks are just naturally dumber.

But nobody wants to think about this possibility because it's too scary: whites have invested a lot in the notion that blacks would be as smart as whites if only we stopped being so racist, and blacks have invested a lot in the notion that their problems are whites' fault. Both thoughts are obviously very comforting. But wrong.

and you have the IQ of a rock

Ah....but you haven't said the really important thing to WJ.

A white rock, or a black rock?

an illegal alien rock

 

[KittenKoder]

Not going to bother focusing on the talking points here, since so far everything I have read is just plain stupid.

First, the IQ of them wouldn't matter, it's memorization that would which means all they had to do was fucking study, period. Also, their training would have covered it all anyway, since that's what the stupid test was about. The simple fact is this, they either didn't study thinking they could skate by using Affirmative Action to get their position, or the training they went through didn't take and they need more anyway ....

It's pretty silly to worry about the color of the skin for the people who are saving youf fucking lives since skill and capability will actually determine if you survive, as well as them to a lesser extent. Seriously, if they can't remember their training then fuck em, I don't want them on the force even.

 

[jgbkab]

Not going to bother focusing on the talking points here, since so far everything I have read is just plain stupid.

First, the IQ of them wouldn't matter, it's memorization that would which means all they had to do was fucking study, period. Also, their training would have covered it all anyway, since that's what the stupid test was about. The simple fact is this, they either didn't study thinking they could skate by using Affirmative Action to get their position, or the training they went through didn't take and they need more anyway ....

It's pretty silly to worry about the color of the skin for the people who are saving youf fucking lives since skill and capability will actually determine if you survive, as well as them to a lesser extent. Seriously, if they can't remember their training then fuck em, I don't want them on the force even.

First, I remember reading somewhere that the test was a national test and that some of the questions on the test were not specific to their city/town. Whether they had study materials or not was not mentioned. But I did read that some questions were applicable to NYC firefighters and would not apply to New Haven.

Second, what is it with the AA speculation? I am black and I have never even thought about AA when testing/applying/interviewing for a job. I have tried to do the best that I could. That's just plain ignorant for you and others to suggest that they were banking on AA. And unless someone said that they were told that they were going to be placed higher or that someone mentioned AA to them, that shouldn't be an issue.