Sebelius: Insurers Will Be Punished For Telling The Truth

[MaggieMae]

There ain't no such thing as a free lunch is not just a sound bite, it is a fact of life.

Nobody's looking for it to be "free." Just fair to those caught in the middle of skyrocketing health care and no way to pay for it. It's a ******* no brainer.

 

[boedicca]

Maggie's "no brainer" solution: make somebody else pay for it.

What a parasite.

 

[MaggieMae]

Not exactly. The point of the excise tax isn't to actually tax benefits, it's to keep health plan costs below the tax's threshold,

No. It is a PRICE control, not a cost control.

ObamaCare is setting limits on prices, but does nothing to address the underlying cost structure of providing health care. If anything, the massive bureaucracy overseeing this monstrosity will just add to the cost structure.

In the end, we will see less supply and inevitable rationing as price controls destroy market incentives to produce.

So something should have been added to the bill detailing a cost ceiling on each medical procedure? That would have messed with the concept of free enterprise real good.

 

[MaggieMae]

Obama succeeded in getting a healthcare plan passed that no one, but the uninsured will like. Even the uninsured are probably going to reject it for cost reasons. So cobbled up that he will continue to receive widespread criticism until it is repealed.

There will probably be reforms, but it will not be repealed. Johnson met with the same opposition when he was trying to get Medicare bill passed. Today, however, you will have a hard time finding anybody, Republican or otherwise, who would go along with "repealing" Medicare.

Medicare (United States) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Many conservatives strongly opposed the enactment of Medicare, warning that a government-run program would lead to socialism in America:

Ronald Reagan, as part of Operation Coffee Cup in 1961, stated that: “f you don’t [stop Medicare] and I don’t do it, one of these days you and I are going to spend our sunset years telling our children and our children’s children what it once was like in America when men were free.”[68]

George H. W. Bush, while a candidate for the US Senate in 1964, described Medicare as “socialized medicine.”[69]

Barry Goldwater in 1964: “Having given our pensioners their medical care in kind, why not food baskets, why not public housing accommodations, why not vacation resorts, why not a ration of cigarettes for those who smoke and of beer for those who drink.”[70]

In 1995 Bob Dole stated that he was one of 12 House members who voted against creating Medicare in 1965. “I was there, fighting the fight, voting against Medicare ... because we knew it wouldn’t work in 1965.” [71]

 

[JakeStarkey]

Boedicca and others here have benefited from the social compact that empowers America and feels no need to give back. They will say they did it all by their own little selves, and that is so much bullshit. I have achieved major success in my profession, and I have no trouble stating that I had quite a bit of help along the way. Anyone who believes they somehow live and achieve outside of the American community lies to him or herself.

 

[boedicca]

Not exactly. The point of the excise tax isn't to actually tax benefits, it's to keep health plan costs below the tax's threshold,

No. It is a PRICE control, not a cost control.

ObamaCare is setting limits on prices, but does nothing to address the underlying cost structure of providing health care. If anything, the massive bureaucracy overseeing this monstrosity will just add to the cost structure.

In the end, we will see less supply and inevitable rationing as price controls destroy market incentives to produce.

So something should have been added to the bill detailing a cost ceiling on each medical procedure? That would have messed with the concept of free enterprise real good.

ROFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!! There is no free market with price controls you nattering nabob of nonsense.

Even the Dems realize that ObamaCare is a steaming pile of statist goo. Evidence: look at how many of them are claiming they voted against it in their campaign adds.

 

[MaggieMae]

Obama succeeded in getting a healthcare plan passed that no one, but the uninsured will like. Even the uninsured are probably going to reject it for cost reasons. So cobbled up that he will continue to receive widespread criticism until it is repealed.

The uninsured aren't going to like it either. All this means is that it will be more difficult than it is now to get an appointment as there is nothing in the plan that will increase the supply of doctors.

Why wouldn't the trend to become a doctor increase in the first place? If more people are going to be able to actually see a doctor instead of an ER nurse, what better incentive than the ol' "supply and demand" rule here?

I also still have faith in the medical profession's basic ethics. I don't see many doctors turning away people who can now make appointments just for preventive care (that's a quick in and out, and a medical practice could set up a separate staff to do that). I also continue to hear horror stories about doctors turning away new Medicare patients, but I believe if they are turning away "new" patients, it's because their practice is already overwhelmed. I haven't read about any doctor in my vicinity (nor even in the entire state) who has openly declared he/she would stop taking government-assisted patients. "First Do No Harm" still means a LOT to most devoted folks in the medical profession.

But then I still have a lot of faith in just about everything America does for its people as having noble intents, and that in the end, we usually get it right (correct) in spite of the painful process.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Regardless of the wack reactionaries to the far right are saying, this will work out well for the American people. No repeal will occur.

 

[MaggieMae]

Yes, I have.

You know I can tell, right? It was really just a rhetorical question.

edit// I'd encourage you to go to THOMAS and look at the handful of bills introduced to address the primary care physician shortage this session. You'll see that the two main bills on the subject are the Resident Physician Shortage Reduction Act of 2009 and the Preserving Patient Access to Primary Care Act of 2009, both of which were introduced in both chambers of Congress. Do those do anything to address our physician shortage issues?

I think I also remember that as part of Obama's college opportunity program, tuition fees for doctors who choose to practice in rural areas will get a huge break and if they stay x-amount of time, any federal tuition grant loans will be eliminated.

 

[MaggieMae]

You are neglecting that it also doesn't include the inevitable doc fixes that Congress will pass each year.

Medicare is a ponzi scheme that is starting to unravel. With a low birth rate, there aren't enough new stooges to pay into the system (which is one of the motivations to corral illegals and make the pay).

Nice to see that in addition to your alleged expertise on economic policy, you also come with a huge far-reaching agenda.

 

[boedicca]

Why wouldn't the trend to become a doctor increase in the first place? If more people are going to be able to actually see a doctor instead of an ER nurse, what better incentive than the ol' "supply and demand" rule here?

Easy - when the government controls prices and limit's one's earning ability, one has an incentive to seek a more lucrative career. An increasing number of doctors are already refusing to see Medicare patients because they lose money with the fee structure. Once everyone is under a government fee structure, we'll see a shrinking supply of doctors.

Unless, of course (and this is a possibility), the government decides to increase the supply of doctors by subsidizing education for ill-qualified students who will make the DMV clerk equivalent of surgeons.

You constantly display a complete and utter ignorance of economics. Please, get a decent book (i.e., something by Hayek or Friedman) and read.

 

[boedicca]

Hahahahah!!!! Even Obama is talking down ObamaCare:

If you watched President Obama’s press conference today, you probably noticed the fumbling and stumbling that occurred while trying to answer Jake Tapper‘s question about yesterday’s health care report, which shows that costs will rise under Obamacare, not fall. If you didn’t see the answer, I’ve included it below. Here is Tapper’s question:

On health care reform, this is six months since health care passed. You pledged, A, that you would bend the cost curve, and, B, that Democrats would be able to campaign on this. And CMS reported yesterday that the cost curve is actually bending up: from 6.1 percent to 6.3 percent post-health care legislation. And the only Democrats I’ve seen talking about health care legislation are running TV ads saying that they voted against it.

The president begins his health care backpedal | The Blaze


Obama's response is in the CNN video clip at the link. He's making excuses already.

 

[MaggieMae]

You are a nasty piece of work.
[*snicker*]
Beck is an infotainer. Speculating on what his "only in your fantasy world" administration would do bears nothing on reality. Really, given your obsession, your should get some professional help. He is a married man.

I'm obsessed? You're like a rabid dog with its dripping fangs still gnawing on a chewed up bone. Try re-reading some of the insults you make before you hit "submit," hypocrite.

 

[MaggieMae]

Maggie's "no brainer" solution: make somebody else pay for it.

What a parasite.

I rest my case. Typical comment from BoBitch, and she wonders why I throw shit right back.

 

[MaggieMae]

Boedicca and others here have benefited from the social compact that empowers America and feels no need to give back. They will say they did it all by their own little selves, and that is so much bullshit. I have achieved major success in my profession, and I have no trouble stating that I had quite a bit of help along the way. Anyone who believes they somehow live and achieve outside of the American community lies to him or herself.

I was myself quite successful in my profession, but I didn't receive any help at all (not even from parents). HOWEVER, I never criticized anyone who needed it and got it. To people like BoBitch, et al., anyone who benefits from a government subsidy must be a drugged up, alcoholic slacker who sits in a recliner in front of TV or plays video games all day and collects a check.

 

[boedicca]

You are a nasty piece of work.
[*snicker*]
Beck is an infotainer. Speculating on what his "only in your fantasy world" administration would do bears nothing on reality. Really, given your obsession, your should get some professional help. He is a married man.

I'm obsessed? You're like a rabid dog with its dripping fangs still gnawing on a chewed up bone. Try re-reading some of the insults you make before you hit "submit," hypocrite.

Really? I never mention Beck other than to call you rabid Moonbats on your obsession.

And speaking of being a hypocrite, here is something at your level:

I am rubber
You are glue
Everything you say
Bounce off me
And sticks to you

 

[Greenbeard]

Unless, of course (and this is a possibility), the government decides to increase the supply of doctors by subsidizing education for ill-qualified students who will make the DMV clerk equivalent of surgeons.

You constantly display a complete and utter ignorance of economics. Please, get a decent book (i.e., something by Hayek or Friedman) and read.

The juxtaposition of these two paragraphs is pretty amusing. You know Friedman favored abolishing medical licensure, right? But we wouldn't want an influx of ill-qualified doctors, would we...

 

[MaggieMae]

No. It is a PRICE control, not a cost control.

ObamaCare is setting limits on prices, but does nothing to address the underlying cost structure of providing health care. If anything, the massive bureaucracy overseeing this monstrosity will just add to the cost structure.

In the end, we will see less supply and inevitable rationing as price controls destroy market incentives to produce.

So something should have been added to the bill detailing a cost ceiling on each medical procedure? That would have messed with the concept of free enterprise real good.

ROFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!! There is no free market with price controls you nattering nabob of nonsense.

Even the Dems realize that ObamaCare is a steaming pile of statist goo. Evidence: look at how many of them are claiming they voted against it in their campaign adds.

I see satire is beyond your realm too. That's precisely what I meant, lamebrain, tongue-in-cheek, or did you miss the question mark at the end?

The dems running for reelection want to get reelected. They realize that the great right wing noise machine controls this conversation, and in order to get reelected, they'll say anything. New to politics are ya?

 

[boedicca]

Boedicca and others here have benefited from the social compact that empowers America and feels no need to give back. They will say they did it all by their own little selves, and that is so much bullshit. I have achieved major success in my profession, and I have no trouble stating that I had quite a bit of help along the way. Anyone who believes they somehow live and achieve outside of the American community lies to him or herself.

I was myself quite successful in my profession, but I didn't receive any help at all (not even from parents). HOWEVER, I never criticized anyone who needed it and got it. To people like BoBitch, et al., anyone who benefits from a government subsidy must be a drugged up, alcoholic slacker who sits in a recliner in front of TV or plays video games all day and collects a check.

You're projecting, MaggieMoron.

I call shenanigans. I dare you to find any post in which I claim that anyone who benefits from a government subsidy is an alcoholic slacker etc.

What you will find are comments to the effect that subsidies actually harm people by making them dependents instead of self-reliant. Why such dependency is considered compassionate is something it would behoove you to rethink, although you have neither the intellectual capacity nor honesty to do so.

 

[MaggieMae]

Why wouldn't the trend to become a doctor increase in the first place? If more people are going to be able to actually see a doctor instead of an ER nurse, what better incentive than the ol' "supply and demand" rule here?

Easy - when the government controls prices and limit's one's earning ability, one has an incentive to seek a more lucrative career. An increasing number of doctors are already refusing to see Medicare patients because they lose money with the fee structure. Once everyone is under a government fee structure, we'll see a shrinking supply of doctors.

Unless, of course (and this is a possibility), the government decides to increase the supply of doctors by subsidizing education for ill-qualified students who will make the DMV clerk equivalent of surgeons.

You constantly display a complete and utter ignorance of economics. Please, get a decent book (i.e., something by Hayek or Friedman) and read.

You don't have anywhere near the flexibility in your thinking that Hayek did, and if you are referring to Thomas Friedman, he would classify you as a right wing extremist in the mold of John Birch.