Save Our Schools March: a teacher revolt against Obama education reform

[rdean]

Hilarious. Read the article. It's all about "No child left behind". Hmmm, where have I heard that before?

Another Republican/Bush mess that isn't being cleaned up fast enough. Voters will vote Republican to teach Democrats another valuable "lesson". If Democrats can't clean up Republican mess fast enough, we will vote Republicans back into office to make a bigger mess. That'll learn ya!

 

[PoliticalChic]

Teachers unions have a lot of balls.
They have utterly destroyed our education system by removing accountability and the ability of administrators to fire incompetent teachers.
Look up "Lemon Dance"...

Sorry, disagree.

1. The Constitution allows free association to all.

2. The unions are certainly honest in stating that they try to get all they can for their members. Is this wrong? Or do you misunderstand the nature of a union.

3. No, friend, it is totally the fault of the pols who sign off on the union demands.
Do you know who became President by standing up to unions?
No, not President Reagan.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Hilarious. Read the article. It's all about "No child left behind". Hmmm, where have I heard that before?

Another Republican/Bush mess that isn't being cleaned up fast enough. Voters will vote Republican to teach Democrats another valuable "lesson". If Democrats can't clean up Republican mess fast enough, we will vote Republicans back into office to make a bigger mess. That'll learn ya!

1. Didn't you know that the Liberal Lion, the Sainted Ted Kennedy, was behind the NCLB act?

2. And, if that rarest of events, rdean-rectitude, took place, exactly how many years into a Democrat term would you say is enough time to " clean up [the] Republican mess"?
No answer?
Never?

Well....doesn't that mean that Democrats are incompetent?

 

[iamwhatiseem]

Teachers unions have a lot of balls.
They have utterly destroyed our education system by removing accountability and the ability of administrators to fire incompetent teachers.
Look up "Lemon Dance"...

Sorry, disagree.

1. The Constitution allows free association to all.

2. The unions are certainly honest in stating that they try to get all they can for their members. Is this wrong? Or do you misunderstand the nature of a union.

3. No, friend, it is totally the fault of the pols who sign off on the union demands.
Do you know who became President by standing up to unions?
No, not President Reagan.

Yes it is wrong.
And no I do not misunderstand the nature of a union - get everything you can possibly get for your members, at a very high cost to you and the business/organization. All the while in many cases diminishing the quality and/or services of that business or organization by creating undue demands and removing necessary disciplinary actions against non-performers.
It isn't what a union does that is the problem, it is the end result - inferior products and services while increasing cost for everyone.

 

[editec]

Save Our Schools March: a teacher revolt against Obama education reform - CSMonitor.com

Passionate and articulate, many of them classroom teachers, the critics tend to zero in on the increasingly high-stakes role played by standardized tests, which can make or break the reputation of a school or teacher – even if the tests aren't very good.

"What we call 'accountability' now is just totally unreliable numbers that are meaningless in terms of the lives of children and the careers of teachers," says Diane Ravitch, a historian and former advocate of standards-based reforms who is now one of its most frequent and ardent critics. "All they're doing is terrorizing teachers."

We have any educators in the house?

Yes, I am an educator. Haven't taught in a classroom in decades though.

I think they're probably right.

The reliance on student testing to evaluate schools isn't a particularly good idea.

We've ALWAYS had standardized achievment tests that told us how each kid was doing.

But I'd be willing to bet MY HOUSE that if there's any correlation that we can count on, it will have next to nothing to do with the teaching staff.

What is the secret to a good school?

A functional community where the kids and their parents aren't living in squalor and desperately trying to keep their heads above water.

I suspect the metrics of median community income and educational outcomes are more CLOSELY aligned than any other factor.

ED outcomes won't have a forking thing to do with the existence or non-existence of teachers unions, either.

You can bet the farm on that supposition.

 

[Foxfyre]

Save Our Schools March: a teacher revolt against Obama education reform - CSMonitor.com

Passionate and articulate, many of them classroom teachers, the critics tend to zero in on the increasingly high-stakes role played by standardized tests, which can make or break the reputation of a school or teacher – even if the tests aren't very good.

"What we call 'accountability' now is just totally unreliable numbers that are meaningless in terms of the lives of children and the careers of teachers," says Diane Ravitch, a historian and former advocate of standards-based reforms who is now one of its most frequent and ardent critics. "All they're doing is terrorizing teachers."

We have any educators in the house?

Yes, I am an educator. Haven't taught in a classroom in decades though.

I think they're probably right.

The reliance on student testing to evaluate schools isn't a particularly good idea.

We've ALWAYS had standardized achievment tests that told us how each kid was doing.

But I'd be willing to bet MY HOUSE that if there's any correlation that we can count on, it will have next to nothing to do with the teaching staff.

What is the secret to a good school?

A functional community where the kids and their parents aren't living in squalor and desperately trying to keep their heads above water.

I suspect the metrics of median community income and educational outcomes are more CLOSELY aligned than any other factor.

ED outcomes won't have a forking thing to do with the existence or non-existence of teachers unions, either.

You can bet the farm on that supposition.

You've hit on the 'magic bullet' I think. Communities where two parent families are the norm, with lots of churches and family activities, where parents show up for parent/teacher conferences and to be boosters for the music, arts, and sports programs, and that pitch in to help out those in distress--such communities will almost always have good schools.

That is what we ought to start promoting as the ideal again in this country.

 

[flacaltenn]

The teachers aren't complaining about NCLB or even standardized testing exclusively. It's some particular problems with 'reforms' from Arne Duncan and the administration as a whole.

why are you lying about what they said in the article?


Passionate and articulate, many of them classroom teachers, the critics tend to zero in on the increasingly high-stakes role played by standardized tests, which can make or break the reputation of a school or teacher – even if the tests aren't very good.

"What we call 'accountability' now is just totally unreliable numbers that are meaningless in terms of the lives of children and the careers of teachers," says Diane Ravitch, a historian and former advocate of standards-based reforms who is now one of its most frequent and ardent critics. "All they're doing is terrorizing teachers."

Save Our Schools March: a teacher revolt against Obama education reform - CSMonitor.com

Complaining about the MINIMUM standards testing as "totally unreliable numbers that are meaningless" is complete horseshit.. I dare ANYONE to find sample questions from the National version of this test that are "racist" or that should require ANY special preparation for 4th, or 8th grade levels.. PERHAPS at the 12th grade testing level there is SOME unique diff in curriculum that need to be "drilled" for student prep.. The website is

NAEP - Nation's Report Card Home -- Pull me a question or 2 from this that we SHOULD NOT expect MINIMUM students to comprehend.. Bet you can't do it... Ive' posted sample questions from these tests in other threads -- AND NO ONE could find anything to object to.

The only reason the FEDS even got involved was that teachers and admins were "cooking the books" at the State level LONG BEFORE NCLB or even the concept of a National Test.. That allowed Jabba the Fed to come in and SIT on the states for compliance.

I'm not saying that teaching performance should be based SOLELY on these tests. In fact, I'd prefer other criteria dominant. But for them to be adverse to this testing indicates that they are trying to hide failing schools and children at risk. The public expectation as customers is that kids will achieve a MINIMUM competency at these testing intervals (4th, 8th, 12th). You CANNOT fix any problems until you've triaged the problem.. And without a quantitive tool such as this -- we should just close the Dept of Ed in Washington..

 

[psikeyhackr]

So when are the kids going to conclude that none of the adults know what they are doing and that they will have to figure out what education is and how to do it for themselves.

A lot of the adults are just trying to make a buck off education but of course no one admits that.

Marching on Washington is just so SIXTIES!

psik

 

[CitizenPained]

Save Our Schools March: a teacher revolt against Obama education reform - CSMonitor.com

Passionate and articulate, many of them classroom teachers, the critics tend to zero in on the increasingly high-stakes role played by standardized tests, which can make or break the reputation of a school or teacher – even if the tests aren't very good.

"What we call 'accountability' now is just totally unreliable numbers that are meaningless in terms of the lives of children and the careers of teachers," says Diane Ravitch, a historian and former advocate of standards-based reforms who is now one of its most frequent and ardent critics. "All they're doing is terrorizing teachers."

We have any educators in the house?

*Raises hand* I have been against Obama's education policy since the beginning. It's sad, really to see a Dem turn his back on us like that.

Throw tests at them. Push 'incentive pay' that doesn't work. Create schools that increase racial tensions and push kids through with failing scores. It doesn't turn back the clock so kids learn early literacy skills, or force their moms to stop smoking crack, or the boys stop trying to get into girls' pants, or softens the blow of administration getting paid 3x what teachers make. Hell, a DPS secretary makes more than a first, second, third, or fourth year teacher! We're not here for the pay, but we work 70+ hours a week for shit wages only to have the public tell us that we are the problem.

 

[flacaltenn]

Save Our Schools March: a teacher revolt against Obama education reform - CSMonitor.com

Passionate and articulate, many of them classroom teachers, the critics tend to zero in on the increasingly high-stakes role played by standardized tests, which can make or break the reputation of a school or teacher – even if the tests aren't very good.

"What we call 'accountability' now is just totally unreliable numbers that are meaningless in terms of the lives of children and the careers of teachers," says Diane Ravitch, a historian and former advocate of standards-based reforms who is now one of its most frequent and ardent critics. "All they're doing is terrorizing teachers."

We have any educators in the house?

*Raises hand* I have been against Obama's education policy since the beginning. It's sad, really to see a Dem turn his back on us like that.

Throw tests at them. Push 'incentive pay' that doesn't work. Create schools that increase racial tensions and push kids through with failing scores. It doesn't turn back the clock so kids learn early literacy skills, or force their moms to stop smoking crack, or the boys stop trying to get into girls' pants, or softens the blow of administration getting paid 3x what teachers make. Hell, a DPS secretary makes more than a first, second, third, or fourth year teacher! We're not here for the pay, but we work 70+ hours a week for shit wages only to have the public tell us that we are the problem.

Normally CitizenPained, no one would be "up in your business" and interfering with your profession and judgement. But the reality is -- this discussion is about "socialized" (public) education and this interference is just part of the socialism conundrum where everyone gets to meddle. You don't see this furor over Private education, because there are choices and contracts and refunds for non-performance.

I actually agree with MOST of what you said.. However the deal about "incentive pay" is such a foreign concept to a unionized workforce that sometimes it requires explanation..

NO ONE ever EXPECTED that "incentive pay" would INCREASE student performance or test scores.. This would be equivalent to claiming that SuperBowl bonuses for the winners are there to guarantee BETTER performance next year. It's a sad straw dog that never barked. The "merit pay" and "incentive pay" are there simply to reward excellence when it happens. Because otherwise, the public has no means to THANK the high acheiving teachers. The union contracts won't allow us to reward any of the automatons that the unions represents unless we include the losers in the reward..

The only ones making the claims that merit or incentives don't work are the folks who opposed it in the first place.. But they are using faulty excuses for GRADING the practice -- Just like those folks who misrepresent that standardized testing should be used as a principal teacher evaluation method.. That's not what the tests were for either. (or shouldn't have been)..

 

[psikeyhackr]

*Raises hand* I have been against Obama's education policy since the beginning. It's sad, really to see a Dem turn his back on us like that.

How long does it take for an education policy begun by a new president to have an effect where the rubber meets the road?

How long does it take for an education policy begun by the old president who was in office for EIGHT YEARS to STOP having effects where the rubber meets the road?

You are talking BS.

psik

 

[flacaltenn]

*Raises hand* I have been against Obama's education policy since the beginning. It's sad, really to see a Dem turn his back on us like that.

How long does it take for an education policy begun by a new president to have an effect where the rubber meets the road?

How long does it take for an education policy begun by the old president who was in office for EIGHT YEARS to STOP having effects where the rubber meets the road?

You are talking BS.

psik

And sometimes psik -- you only need to listen to the plan to predict the consequences and chances of success. No waiting required..

 

[psikeyhackr]

And sometimes psik -- you only need to listen to the plan to predict the consequences and chances of success. No waiting required..

And your great predictive powers told you what about NCLB which so many people are complaining about?

psik

 

[editec]

You want better schools?

Create better commumities.

K-rist! it doesn't get any simpler than that.

 

[flacaltenn]

You want better schools?

Create better commumities.

K-rist! it doesn't get any simpler than that.

Folks who are lining for lotteries don't have time to wait for miracles.. They need help now.. Lives are literally at stake. We know how to improve the lot for the MAJORITY of inner city public school kids.. There are a bunch of adults standing in the way...

I'd agree with you editec a little bit more if there wasn't a sense of urgency here..

 

[BDBoop]

You want better schools?

Create better commumities.

K-rist! it doesn't get any simpler than that.

Folks who are lining for lotteries don't have time to wait for miracles.. They need help now.. Lives are literally at stake. We know how to improve the lot for the MAJORITY of inner city public school kids.. There are a bunch of adults standing in the way...

I'd agree with you editec a little bit more if there wasn't a sense of urgency here..

I'd agree a bit more if he gave any direction whatsoever on HOW to create 'better communities.'

 

[psikeyhackr]

You want better schools?

Create better commumities.

K-rist! it doesn't get any simpler than that.

What could have been done with television for educational purposes starting in the 60s?

Why wasn't it done?

What can be done with computers now? Do you think it is going to be done? This competitive, money driven, information hiding culture contradicts the objective of education. Some people want a BETTER education just for the competitive advantage. That really means they want to sabotage other people.

If computers are really cheap and good books are free what does that do to the competition?

Easydy unveils E88 tablet device for China by VR-Zone.com

There is the computer. Here is a book for a grade school kid.

The Fourth R - George Oliver Smith | Feedbooks

Are we going to use this stuff or are we going to let EDUCATORS tell us what to think?

psik

 

[flacaltenn]

You want better schools?

Create better commumities.

K-rist! it doesn't get any simpler than that.

What could have been done with television for educational purposes starting in the 60s?

Why wasn't it done?

What can be done with computers now? Do you think it is going to be done? This competitive, money driven, information hiding culture contradicts the objective of education. Some people want a BETTER education just for the competitive advantage. That really means they want to sabotage other people.

If computers are really cheap and good books are free what does that do to the competition?

Easydy unveils E88 tablet device for China by VR-Zone.com

There is the computer. Here is a book for a grade school kid.

The Fourth R - George Oliver Smith | Feedbooks

Are we going to use this stuff or are we going to let EDUCATORS tell us what to think?

psik

NOW -- you're cooking psik.. THere's no reason in the world why the last 2 years of High School and first 4 of College can't be largely done with virtual education..

Imagine music biz bound kids getting Paul McCartney as a Tues lecturer. Or tech-bound kids getting quizzed by Steve Jobs. The costs would fall, the customizing potential is endless. It would enable both academic tracks and work-study apprentice tracks..

Many states are now fighting the battle just for the right to develop virtual curriculum..
We need this to change to a 21st century model of education..

BUTTTT --- You gotta shore up the K-10 part of this as well.. Otherwise -- none of the Virtual Ed potential really matters. Can't leak 50% or more of kids into an unskilled job force anymore..

 

[BDBoop]

The systems that are doing it "right" - what are they doing. What country has the best primary and secondary education system, and what are they doing differently.

 

[random3434]

OK, there are some good ideas and discussions in this thread (not counting the teacher bashing/public school peanut gallery that say the same thing in every education thread)

I like Foxy's idea about letting each state or district meet their needs for education. And of course, editec and she hit the nail on the head about communities involvement, along with family, where schools are a success.

Now, how can we get a successful community like we have in the 'burbs' and small towns in our countries inner-cities? Anyone have some good ideas how to achieve that?

I'd like to hear your ideas.