Ron Paulites - please explain - how do we end the fed?

[Truthmatters]

In particular, what happens to the Fed's assets and liabilities?


Easy one there, private individuals and corporations get those assets and the govt (aka taxpayers) eats the liabilities.

Why people cant see that Pauls crap is just insane is beyond me.

 

[LibertyForAll]

In particular, what happens to the Fed's assets and liabilities?


Easy one there, private individuals and corporations get those assets and the govt (aka taxpayers) eats the liabilities.

Why people cant see that Pauls crap is just insane is beyond me.

Please keep opposing him because I think that will actually help him win more votes.

 

[Mad Scientist]

Why people cant see that Pauls crap is just insane is beyond me.

Why people can't see that Obama's crap is just insane is beyond me.

 

[Truthmatters]

how do we end the fed?

That is a damned good question.

The question REALLY is asking us:

How to we maintain a money supply that tracks and compliments the nation's ACTUAL productivity?

In theory that is what the FED is supposed to be doing for us (in theory).

I submit that that task DOES need to be done therefore something FED-LIKE is necessary for a moden capitalistic society to function.

I do not think a GOLD SPECIE STANDARD works to answer that question.

Now we could have a gold standard system, but that is just adding one more complication to the managment of money supply.

Basically that Gold Standard would just make the money supply balance against the gold supply based on some FIAT rate of conversion (again, another FED -LIKE task)

If you've read this far and understand the point I am making above, can I get a shout out? I ask for this because there are times, here, when I think not single person here truly understands what I am saying.

Incidently, I have no alternative solution to the FED except some more honest (and less classist) system.

I do think the money supply needs to be monitored and adjusted.

I guess my point it is it needs to be done honestly and for the benefit of the economy, and not just the BANSTERS, which is how it's being managed right now.

My proposal for a FED-LIKE system is to break the monopoly that BANKS have for access to NEW capital creation.

My proposal is that every citizen ought to be able to borrow money (which is really creating new money) by going to the FED window.

I see however, the complications and shortcomings of such a system, too.

For example...clearly every borrower's plan for that money does not come with the same risk.

So then the FED-LIKE organization would have to be in the business of accessing the risk-worthiness of the borrower and his plan for that new money he is creating by borrowing.

Yeah, I see how unweildy that system is, I definitely do.

I ALSO see how if that system becomes corrupted (as all system inevitably do) that would be essantially the same problem we have now.

But does anybody see where I'm headed with this idea?

Or am I a lone voice shouting in the wilderness?

I am asking you guys and gals to THINK about what money really is, and how money manamgement is an inevitable form of social engineering.

I am pointing out that no matter what we do with money, no matter how we design a system to deal with the money supply every design is a form of social engineering.

There is no NATURAL system (like I think some of you gold bugs image there is) that determines the right money supply. (economics does NOT reflect some deeper truth found in nature, folks. That is a delusion that many of you seem to have. Economics is entirely a manmade system that we get to (read must) invent to reflect the state of our society and how it works.

So regardless of what we do, our design choices will reflect our concept of how SOCIETY ought to work.

Okay, I hope I have not completely wasted my time or yours.

But the question of eliminating or redesigning the FED demands that we start asking ourselves the fundamental questions about how we want our society to work.

I hope some of you get that.

I think some of you do.

There is just no AUTOMATIC setting for the situation like so many on the right claim there is.

Anything designed by man can be exploited by man.

Regulations and good inforcement of the regulations on the system is the only answer.

 

[LibertyForAll]

how do we end the fed?

That is a damned good question.

The question REALLY is asking us:

How to we maintain a money supply that tracks and compliments the nation's ACTUAL productivity?

In theory that is what the FED is supposed to be doing for us (in theory).

I submit that that task DOES need to be done therefore something FED-LIKE is necessary for a moden capitalistic society to function.

I do not think a GOLD SPECIE STANDARD works to answer that question.

Now we could have a gold standard system, but that is just adding one more complication to the managment of money supply.

Basically that Gold Standard would just make the money supply balance against the gold supply based on some FIAT rate of conversion (again, another FED -LIKE task)

If you've read this far and understand the point I am making above, can I get a shout out? I ask for this because there are times, here, when I think not single person here truly understands what I am saying.

Incidently, I have no alternative solution to the FED except some more honest (and less classist) system.

I do think the money supply needs to be monitored and adjusted.

I guess my point it is it needs to be done honestly and for the benefit of the economy, and not just the BANSTERS, which is how it's being managed right now.

My proposal for a FED-LIKE system is to break the monopoly that BANKS have for access to NEW capital creation.

My proposal is that every citizen ought to be able to borrow money (which is really creating new money) by going to the FED window.

I see however, the complications and shortcomings of such a system, too.

For example...clearly every borrower's plan for that money does not come with the same risk.

So then the FED-LIKE organization would have to be in the business of accessing the risk-worthiness of the borrower and his plan for that new money he is creating by borrowing.

Yeah, I see how unweildy that system is, I definitely do.

I ALSO see how if that system becomes corrupted (as all system inevitably do) that would be essantially the same problem we have now.

But does anybody see where I'm headed with this idea?

Or am I a lone voice shouting in the wilderness?

I am asking you guys and gals to THINK about what money really is, and how money manamgement is an inevitable form of social engineering.

I am pointing out that no matter what we do with money, no matter how we design a system to deal with the money supply every design is a form of social engineering.

There is no NATURAL system (like I think some of you gold bugs image there is) that determines the right money supply. (economics does NOT reflect some deeper truth found in nature, folks. That is a delusion that many of you seem to have. Economics is entirely a manmade system that we get to (read must) invent to reflect the state of our society and how it works.

So regardless of what we do, our design choices will reflect our concept of how SOCIETY ought to work.

Okay, I hope I have not completely wasted my time or yours.

But the question of eliminating or redesigning the FED demands that we start asking ourselves the fundamental questions about how we want our society to work.

I hope some of you get that.

I think some of you do.

There is just no AUTOMATIC setting for the situation like so many on the right claim there is.

Anything designed by man can be exploited by man.

Regulations and good inforcement of the regulations on the system is the only answer.

Regulations are designed by man and therefore can be exploited by man by your logic.

The people making the regulations are giving money to the people being regulated.

 

[The Rabbi]

Ron Paul has never said that but that doesn't stop you from insisting he did. Typical, know nothing, Rick Perry supporter (His name isn't Rick by the way).
And being anti-Federal Reserve is equated with Anti-Semitism? Explain.

It's like arguing that Obamacare was not going to increase costs because the CBO said so.
This is simply the logical extension of what is being proposed.
If you think the anti-Fed movement is not filled with anti-semites then you haven't been paying attention.
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNgxxUbwVVY]The Jew World Order is sinking the American economy. - YouTube[/ame]

Saying those who oppose the fed are anti-semites is the same as saying those that oppose obama all hate black people. Are you a racist then Rabbi or are you voting for Obama?

Except I didnt say that.
Maybe you said that?

 

[The Rabbi]

Why people cant see that Pauls crap is just insane is beyond me.

Why people can't see that Obama's crap is just insane is beyond me.

How is that a reasonable refutation of what was written?

 

[LibertyForAll]

Ron Paulites - please explain - how do we end the fed?

In particular, what happens to the Fed's assets and liabilities?

I would assume they get subsumed to Treasury.
The bigger question is who takes over the functions of the Fed? In a Ron Paul world we go back to the 18th century when everyone issued bank notes and figuring out which were sound and which were bogus was an industry. While the Fed has been far from perfect, it is better than the system it replaced. And those opposed to it eventually reveal themselves as cranks and anti-semites.

Right here you said people opposed to the fed are cranks and anti-semites. Are you now claiming that you didn't?

 

[editec]

The thing is, if we just FEDERALIZE the FED, are we really solving anything?

It's the CLASSIST manner in which the FED operates that I am proposing ought to change.

 

[Oddball]

The thing is, if we just FEDERALIZE the FED, are we really solving anything?

It's the CLASSIST manner in which the FED operates that I am proposing ought to change.

You cannot federalize the Fed, per Article 1, Sections 8 & 10:

Section 8: The Congress shall have Power To...coin Money (a very specific process, which defines "money" as specie), regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;

Section 10: No State shall...coin Money; emit Bills of Credit; make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts;

 

[The Rabbi]

Ron Paulites - please explain - how do we end the fed?

In particular, what happens to the Fed's assets and liabilities?

I would assume they get subsumed to Treasury.
The bigger question is who takes over the functions of the Fed? In a Ron Paul world we go back to the 18th century when everyone issued bank notes and figuring out which were sound and which were bogus was an industry. While the Fed has been far from perfect, it is better than the system it replaced. And those opposed to it eventually reveal themselves as cranks and anti-semites.

Right here you said people opposed to the fed are cranks and anti-semites. Are you now claiming that you didn't?

Reading not up to snuff? English not your native language?
No, I am not "claiming" anything. What I wrote was clear to anyone with mroe than a high school education.

 

[The Rabbi]

The thing is, if we just FEDERALIZE the FED, are we really solving anything?

It's the CLASSIST manner in which the FED operates that I am proposing ought to change.

You cannot federalize the Fed, per Article 1, Sections 8 & 10:

Section 8: The Congress shall have Power To...coin Money (a very specific process, which defines "money" as specie), regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;

Section 10: No State shall...coin Money; emit Bills of Credit; make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts;

Nothing here says that Congress cannot issue paper money. Section 10 refers to the states coining their own money.

 

[LibertyForAll]

I would assume they get subsumed to Treasury.
The bigger question is who takes over the functions of the Fed? In a Ron Paul world we go back to the 18th century when everyone issued bank notes and figuring out which were sound and which were bogus was an industry. While the Fed has been far from perfect, it is better than the system it replaced. And those opposed to it eventually reveal themselves as cranks and anti-semites.

Right here you said people opposed to the fed are cranks and anti-semites. Are you now claiming that you didn't?

Reading not up to snuff? English not your native language?
No, I am not "claiming" anything. What I wrote was clear to anyone with mroe than a high school education.

First you claim anyone who opposes the fed is a crank and anti-semite then you claim you never said that and now you are claiming you never denied saying it. It's all in this very thread, you can't deny it.

and you want to call ME stupid?!?!?!

 

[The Rabbi]

Right here you said people opposed to the fed are cranks and anti-semites. Are you now claiming that you didn't?

Reading not up to snuff? English not your native language?
No, I am not "claiming" anything. What I wrote was clear to anyone with mroe than a high school education.

First you claim anyone who opposes the fed is a crank and anti-semite then you claim you never said that and now you are claiming you never denied saying it. It's all in this very thread, you can't deny it.

and you want to call ME stupid?!?!?!

I dont have to call you stupid. You demonstrate it with your posts.

 

[pvsi.]

Ron Paulites - please explain - how do we end the fed?

In particular, what happens to the Fed's assets and liabilities?

Video in first reply explains well how, and now...
explain yourself what happens if we do not end the fed?

 

[LibertyForAll]

Reading not up to snuff? English not your native language?
No, I am not "claiming" anything. What I wrote was clear to anyone with mroe than a high school education.

First you claim anyone who opposes the fed is a crank and anti-semite then you claim you never said that and now you are claiming you never denied saying it. It's all in this very thread, you can't deny it.

and you want to call ME stupid?!?!?!

I dont have to call you stupid. You demonstrate it with your posts.

And you have demonstrated that you are a liar.

 

[Contumacious]

Ron Paulites - please explain - how do we end the fed?

What would you suggest that your surgeon do with a malignant tumor?

In particular, what happens to the Fed's assets and liabilities?

WTF, "assets and liabilities" have you forgotten that they are resisting a ******* audit?

.

 

[American Horse]

Ron Paul has never said that but that doesn't stop you from insisting he did. Typical, know nothing, Rick Perry supporter (His name isn't Rick by the way).
And being anti-Federal Reserve is equated with Anti-Semitism? Explain.

It's like arguing that Obamacare was not going to increase costs because the CBO said so.
This is simply the logical extension of what is being proposed.
If you think the anti-Fed movement is not filled with anti-semites then you haven't been paying attention.
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNgxxUbwVVY]The Jew World Order is sinking the American economy. - YouTube[/ame]

Saying those who oppose the fed are anti-semites is the same as saying those that oppose obama all hate black people. Are you a racist then Rabbi or are you voting for Obama?

Not even close as a parallel. What that guy is yelling in that VIDEO on Rabbi's post is typical of what you hear when you discuss the Fed, banking, and other favorite Ron Paul issues with too damn many of his supporters. I'veheard almost that same video diatribe verbatim. It's eeri, and should not be discounted.

 

[Oddball]

The thing is, if we just FEDERALIZE the FED, are we really solving anything?

It's the CLASSIST manner in which the FED operates that I am proposing ought to change.

You cannot federalize the Fed, per Article 1, Sections 8 & 10:

Section 8: The Congress shall have Power To...coin Money (a very specific process, which defines "money" as specie), regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;

Section 10: No State shall...coin Money; emit Bills of Credit; make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts;

Nothing here says that Congress cannot issue paper money. Section 10 refers to the states coining their own money.

Article 1, Section 8 defines money as coin....Period.

As such, all paper notes must be redeemable for specie.

 

[The Rabbi]

You cannot federalize the Fed, per Article 1, Sections 8 & 10:

Section 8: The Congress shall have Power To...coin Money (a very specific process, which defines "money" as specie), regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;

Section 10: No State shall...coin Money; emit Bills of Credit; make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts;

Nothing here says that Congress cannot issue paper money. Section 10 refers to the states coining their own money.

Article 1, Section 8 defines money as coin....Period.

As such, all paper notes must be redeemable for specie.

No. You would have to show that "coin" exclusively meant metal when the Constitution was framed. I don't believe that is the case.