Romney- finally explained by a constitutional expert.

[Maple]

This is a long read but very informative. Did you know that our founders enforced mandates?? I didn't. A great read for you pure constitutionalists and a great explanation of Romney's health care plan.

Open Letter To RedState, Part I: Mandates and Health Care | RedState

" Are our founders merely fino's ( founders in name only) or pino's ( patriots in name only) ?"


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cahvl8V317g&feature=youtu.be&t=2m50s

 

[Maple]

This is a long read but very informative. Did you know that our founders enforced mandates?? I didn't. A great read for you pure constitutionalists and a great explanation of Romney's health care plan.

Open Letter To RedState, Part I: Mandates and Health Care | RedState

" Are our founders merely fino's ( founders in name only) or pino's ( patriots in name only) ?"


Chris Wallace Grills Mitt Romney on Health Care (Part 1) - YouTube

Romney was opposed to a mandate, tried to veto it, but was overridden by the 85% democratic legislature. He wanted to implement a tax reduction for business's and indivduals who purchased their own insurance as he thought this would create an incentive, thereby reducing the burden to the state and taxpayers.

 

[Maple]

This is a long read but very informative. Did you know that our founders enforced mandates?? I didn't. A great read for you pure constitutionalists and a great explanation of Romney's health care plan.

Open Letter To RedState, Part I: Mandates and Health Care | RedState

" Are our founders merely fino's ( founders in name only) or pino's ( patriots in name only) ?"


Chris Wallace Grills Mitt Romney on Health Care (Part 1) - YouTube

Romney was opposed to a mandate, tried to veto it, but was overridden by the 85% democratic legislature. He wanted to implement a tax reduction for business's and indivduals who purchased their own insurance as he thought this would create an incentive, thereby reducing the burden to the state and taxpayers.

Mitt Romney | Setting the Record Straight

 

[Greenbeard]

Romney was opposed to a mandate, tried to veto it, but was overridden by the 85% democratic legislature.

You're starting to take on some of the characteristics of your candidate, the way you're flopping around here. Minutes after writing this nonsense, you flipped to lauding Romney's courage in pursuing a mandate:

And for all of you conservatives who tout PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY, yet the minute someone issues a mandate enforcing PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY, you cry foul. Unless you mandate PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY you are never going to get it. And PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY is a conservative platform, it is what we tout, it is what we are all about, but if you are not willing to enforce it, then quit touting it, because it's not going to happen.

Mitt Romney was courageous enough to enforce Personal Responsibility.

The reality, of course, is that Romney vetoed eight provisions in Massachusetts' health reform law and the individual mandate was not among them. He was, at the time, adhering pretty closely to conservative doctrine of the day--as you're doing here, they sold the individual mandate concept as part of their personal responsibility shtick. The rightwing Heritage Foundation came up with it, and the '90s leadership of the GOP (including Newt Gingrich and Bob Dole) were believers in it. That's why you had even far right zealots like Jim DeMint praising the Romney model when it passed a few years ago.

That's the great irony, isn't it? Romney, the unprincipled technocrat who actually implemented the ideas of the rightwing thoughtleaders and think tanks, now finds his relationship with his party on the rocks because the party itself has few, if any, core principals and shifted abruptly with the political winds. Personally, I think they're a match made in heaven.

 

[Mad Scientist]

This is a long read but very informative. Did you know that our founders enforced mandates?? I didn't. A great read for you pure constitutionalists and a great explanation of Romney's health care plan.

Open Letter To RedState, Part I: Mandates and Health Care | RedState

" Are our founders merely fino's ( founders in name only) or pino's ( patriots in name only) ?"


Chris Wallace Grills Mitt Romney on Health Care (Part 1) - YouTube

The author isn't a "Constitutional Expert" as you claim. He describes himself as a "Political Junkie", nothing more. But that's OK, everyone is entitled to their opinion, myself included.

The article describes John Hancock "mandating" Militia Membership as Gov. of Massachusetts. So we're supposed to believe that State Militia service (Yesterdays National Guard) "mandated" by the Governor in 1790(?) is the basis for allowing the State run Health Care?

Hey, of the 55 Constitutional Convention Attendees, 15 owned large Plantations. Think I could use that as a basis to own slaves? See because if the state "mandates" it, it must be ok!

 

[Sallow]

This is a long read but very informative. Did you know that our founders enforced mandates?? I didn't. A great read for you pure constitutionalists and a great explanation of Romney's health care plan.

Open Letter To RedState, Part I: Mandates and Health Care | RedState

" Are our founders merely fino's ( founders in name only) or pino's ( patriots in name only) ?"


Chris Wallace Grills Mitt Romney on Health Care (Part 1) - YouTube

The author isn't a "Constitutional Expert" as you claim. He describes himself as a "Political Junkie", nothing more. But that's OK, everyone is entitled to their opinion, myself included.

The article describes John Hancock "mandating" Militia Membership as Gov. of Massachusetts. So we're supposed to believe that State Militia service (Yesterdays National Guard) "mandated" by the Governor in 1790(?) is the basis for allowing the State run Health Care?
Hey, of the 55 Constitutional Convention Attendees, 15 owned large Plantations. Think I could use that as a basis to own slaves? See because if the state "mandates" it, it must be ok!

That's part of the "real" reason for the Second Amendment. A full time professional standing army was never part of original intent.

In any case the whole health care package passed by the Obama administration was largely created by conservatives.

 

[Maple]

This is a long read but very informative. Did you know that our founders enforced mandates?? I didn't. A great read for you pure constitutionalists and a great explanation of Romney's health care plan.

Open Letter To RedState, Part I: Mandates and Health Care | RedState

" Are our founders merely fino's ( founders in name only) or pino's ( patriots in name only) ?"


Chris Wallace Grills Mitt Romney on Health Care (Part 1) - YouTube

The author isn't a "Constitutional Expert" as you claim. He describes himself as a "Political Junkie", nothing more. But that's OK, everyone is entitled to their opinion, myself included.

The article describes John Hancock "mandating" Militia Membership as Gov. of Massachusetts. So we're supposed to believe that State Militia service (Yesterdays National Guard) "mandated" by the Governor in 1790(?) is the basis for allowing the State run Health Care?

Hey, of the 55 Constitutional Convention Attendees, 15 owned large Plantations. Think I could use that as a basis to own slaves? See because if the state "mandates" it, it must be ok!

He did not say that he was a constitutional expert, but I can tell you he knows more about the constitution than you do and a mandate is a mandate period, whether it is the government requiring you to purchase a gun and ammunition at your own expense or one that requires you to purchase a health care plan. It is a state's issue................................. not a federal one period................................

 

[Vaard]

He did not say that he was a constitutional expert, but I can tell you he knows more about the constitution than you do and a mandate is a mandate period, whether it is the government requiring you to purchase a gun and ammunition at your own expense or one that requires you to purchase a health care plan. It is a state's issue................................. not a federal one period................................

every mandate is not equal........


to compare the mandate of having a militia to defend the country to a mandate requiring people purchase health insurance has got to be one of the weakest attempts to defend romney i have ever seen.......


hell, by this "logic" the fact that we went form state militias to a standing federal one must mean that federal healthcare is good then.......

 

[Maple]

Romney was opposed to a mandate, tried to veto it, but was overridden by the 85% democratic legislature.

You're starting to take on some of the characteristics of your candidate, the way you're flopping around here. Minutes after writing this nonsense, you flipped to lauding Romney's courage in pursuing a mandate:

And for all of you conservatives who tout PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY, yet the minute someone issues a mandate enforcing PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY, you cry foul. Unless you mandate PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY you are never going to get it. And PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY is a conservative platform, it is what we tout, it is what we are all about, but if you are not willing to enforce it, then quit touting it, because it's not going to happen.

Mitt Romney was courageous enough to enforce Personal Responsibility.

The reality, of course, is that Romney vetoed eight provisions in Massachusetts' health reform law and the individual mandate was not among them. He was, at the time, adhering pretty closely to conservative doctrine of the day--as you're doing here, they sold the individual mandate concept as part of their personal responsibility shtick. The rightwing Heritage Foundation came up with it, and the '90s leadership of the GOP (including Newt Gingrich and Bob Dole) were believers in it. That's why you had even far right zealots like Jim DeMint praising the Romney model when it passed a few years ago.

That's the great irony, isn't it? Romney, the unprincipled technocrat who actually implemented the ideas of the rightwing thoughtleaders and think tanks, now finds his relationship with his party on the rocks because the party itself has few, if any, core principals and shifted abruptly with the political winds. Personally, I think they're a match made in heaven.

You are dead on right, the people blowing in the political winds are the same people who tout "personal responsibility" yet since Obamacare is so unpopular, which I agree, have now decided to jump on the band wagon for political favor, flip flop on their original positions because they don't have the political courage or conviction to stand behind one of their major platforms, which is "personal responsibility."

If you don't mandate personal responsibility you will not get personal responsibility from everyone, because their are always those parasites who will gladly let you flip the bill for their irresponsibility. They come in all colors, genders, party affiliations, ages, and income.

 

[Mad Scientist]

In any case the whole health care package passed by the Obama administration was largely created by conservatives.

It was written and created by Lobbyists then passed (excuse me, "deemed") by a treasonous Congress and President. Yes, they are treasonous.

The political affiliations matter not. In fact they are there to fool people like you and me. INstead of focusing on what they say and do, we're supposed to just pick a side a fight to the death no matter what! "Well, my Maw and Paw voted Democrat (or Republican) so I will too!" Derp!

Just because a self professed Conservative said I'd be happier in chains doesn't mean I should go along with it.

He did not say that he was a constitutional expert,

I didn't say he was, YOU DID in the headline of your thread! Derp!

Tempted to neg!

 

[Maple]

He did not say that he was a constitutional expert, but I can tell you he knows more about the constitution than you do and a mandate is a mandate period, whether it is the government requiring you to purchase a gun and ammunition at your own expense or one that requires you to purchase a health care plan. It is a state's issue................................. not a federal one period................................

every mandate is not equal........


to compare the mandate of having a militia to defend the country to a mandate requiring people purchase health insurance has got to be one of the weakest attempts to defend romney i have ever seen.......


hell, by this "logic" the fact that we went form state militias to a standing federal one must mean that federal healthcare is good then.......

It is still a mandate, did you read long enough to see the early federal mandate that required sea going ships to have apothecary aboard? Did you read long enough to see the fence requirements and the mandate there and did you long read enough to see there was a mandate for civic services or be fined??

Those were all mandates and they were done by our founders.

There is nothing good about a Federal health care plan, if you take the time to read the difference between state's rights and federal ones it will become very clear to you. Also I would suggest you familiarize yourself with the facts on Romney's plan compared to Obama's plan, there is no comparison other than the mandate.

Now, if you are a conservative you believe in personal responsibility. Please tell me how you are going to get the population to practice " personal responsibility" without a mandate to do so. I have asked this question 100 times and 100 times I have NOT gotten one answer. Liberals do not believe in personal responsibility it's their idea that it is everyone else's responsibility. So where do you stand?

 

[Maple]

He did not say that he was a constitutional expert, but I can tell you he knows more about the constitution than you do and a mandate is a mandate period, whether it is the government requiring you to purchase a gun and ammunition at your own expense or one that requires you to purchase a health care plan. It is a state's issue................................. not a federal one period................................

every mandate is not equal........


to compare the mandate of having a militia to defend the country to a mandate requiring people purchase health insurance has got to be one of the weakest attempts to defend romney i have ever seen.......


hell, by this "logic" the fact that we went form state militias to a standing federal one must mean that federal healthcare is good then.......

It is still a mandate, did you read long enough to see the early federal mandate that required sea going ships to have apothecary aboard? Did you read long enough to see the fence requirements and the mandate there and did you long read enough to see there was a mandate for civic services or be fined??

Those were all mandates and they were done by our founders.

There is nothing good about a Federal health care plan, if you take the time to read the difference between state's rights and federal ones it will become very clear to you. Also I would suggest you familiarize yourself with the facts on Romney's plan compared to Obama's plan, there is no comparison other than the mandate.

Now, if you are a conservative you believe in personal responsibility. Please tell me how you are going to get the population to practice " personal responsibility" without a mandate to do so. I have asked this question 100 times and 100 times I have NOT gotten one answer. Liberals do not believe in personal responsibility it's their idea that it is everyone else's responsibility. So where do you stand?

Use your critical thought process here. How are you going to get irresponsible people to practice personal responsibility when you keep flipping the bill for them without using a mandate??

I anxiously await your reply.

 

[Maple]

every mandate is not equal........


to compare the mandate of having a militia to defend the country to a mandate requiring people purchase health insurance has got to be one of the weakest attempts to defend romney i have ever seen.......


hell, by this "logic" the fact that we went form state militias to a standing federal one must mean that federal healthcare is good then.......

It is still a mandate, did you read long enough to see the early federal mandate that required sea going ships to have apothecary aboard? Did you read long enough to see the fence requirements and the mandate there and did you long read enough to see there was a mandate for civic services or be fined??

Those were all mandates and they were done by our founders.

There is nothing good about a Federal health care plan, if you take the time to read the difference between state's rights and federal ones it will become very clear to you. Also I would suggest you familiarize yourself with the facts on Romney's plan compared to Obama's plan, there is no comparison other than the mandate.

Now, if you are a conservative you believe in personal responsibility. Please tell me how you are going to get the population to practice " personal responsibility" without a mandate to do so. I have asked this question 100 times and 100 times I have NOT gotten one answer. Liberals do not believe in personal responsibility it's their idea that it is everyone else's responsibility. So where do you stand?

Use your critical thought process here. How are you going to get irresponsible people to practice personal responsibility when you keep flipping the bill for them without using a mandate??

I anxiously await your reply.

I would welcome anyone's reply to the above question and this is the answer I always get---- dead silence--- and from those who promote and tout personal responsibility yet do have the courage to address how we get there without an enforceable mandate.

 

[Vaard]

It is still a mandate, did you read long enough to see the early federal mandate that required sea going ships to have apothecary aboard? Did you read long enough to see the fence requirements and the mandate there and did you long read enough to see there was a mandate for civic services or be fined??

Those were all mandates and they were done by our founders.

There is nothing good about a Federal health care plan, if you take the time to read the difference between state's rights and federal ones it will become very clear to you. Also I would suggest you familiarize yourself with the facts on Romney's plan compared to Obama's plan, there is no comparison other than the mandate.

Now, if you are a conservative you believe in personal responsibility. Please tell me how you are going to get the population to practice " personal responsibility" without a mandate to do so. I have asked this question 100 times and 100 times I have NOT gotten one answer. Liberals do not believe in personal responsibility it's their idea that it is everyone else's responsibility. So where do you stand?

yes, i read it before and have heard that line of excuse making before....... its a load of bunk......

i live in mass, i am very familiar with romneys plan......

i do find it amusing that your verson of "personal responsibility" is to force people to be responsibile, which is the opposite of a conservatives view of personal responsibility.......

i also find it utterly ridiculous and completely hypocritical for republicans to scream socialism is bad, yet supoprt it on the state level.........

 

[grunt11b]

This is a long read but very informative. Did you know that our founders enforced mandates?? I didn't. A great read for you pure constitutionalists and a great explanation of Romney's health care plan.

Open Letter To RedState, Part I: Mandates and Health Care | RedState

" Are our founders merely fino's ( founders in name only) or pino's ( patriots in name only) ?"


Chris Wallace Grills Mitt Romney on Health Care (Part 1) - YouTube

I dont need anyone to explain to me that the states can mandate a program, especially if that program is not mentioned in the constitution. The constitution gives the states the authority to deal with issues not specified in the constitution. Healthcare is not mentioned in the constitution, therefore cannot be mandated on the people by the federal government, no matter what that kooky article says.
You can escape a state, you cannot escape the federal government, the founders knew this.

 

[grunt11b]

This is a long read but very informative. Did you know that our founders enforced mandates?? I didn't. A great read for you pure constitutionalists and a great explanation of Romney's health care plan.

Open Letter To RedState, Part I: Mandates and Health Care | RedState

" Are our founders merely fino's ( founders in name only) or pino's ( patriots in name only) ?"


Chris Wallace Grills Mitt Romney on Health Care (Part 1) - YouTube

The author isn't a "Constitutional Expert" as you claim. He describes himself as a "Political Junkie", nothing more. But that's OK, everyone is entitled to their opinion, myself included.

The article describes John Hancock "mandating" Militia Membership as Gov. of Massachusetts. So we're supposed to believe that State Militia service (Yesterdays National Guard) "mandated" by the Governor in 1790(?) is the basis for allowing the State run Health Care?
Hey, of the 55 Constitutional Convention Attendees, 15 owned large Plantations. Think I could use that as a basis to own slaves? See because if the state "mandates" it, it must be ok!

That's part of the "real" reason for the Second Amendment. A full time professional standing army was never part of original intent.

In any case the whole health care package passed by the Obama administration was largely created by conservatives.

Proof? Link? throw us a bone here, dont just make the statement, back it up.

 

[grunt11b]

This is a long read but very informative. Did you know that our founders enforced mandates?? I didn't. A great read for you pure constitutionalists and a great explanation of Romney's health care plan.

Open Letter To RedState, Part I: Mandates and Health Care | RedState

" Are our founders merely fino's ( founders in name only) or pino's ( patriots in name only) ?"


Chris Wallace Grills Mitt Romney on Health Care (Part 1) - YouTube

The author isn't a "Constitutional Expert" as you claim. He describes himself as a "Political Junkie", nothing more. But that's OK, everyone is entitled to their opinion, myself included.

The article describes John Hancock "mandating" Militia Membership as Gov. of Massachusetts. So we're supposed to believe that State Militia service (Yesterdays National Guard) "mandated" by the Governor in 1790(?) is the basis for allowing the State run Health Care?

Hey, of the 55 Constitutional Convention Attendees, 15 owned large Plantations. Think I could use that as a basis to own slaves? See because if the state "mandates" it, it must be ok!

He did not say that he was a constitutional expert, but I can tell you he knows more about the constitution than you do and a mandate is a mandate period, whether it is the government requiring you to purchase a gun and ammunition at your own expense or one that requires you to purchase a health care plan. It is a state's issue................................. not a federal one period................................

If they government can make healthcare mandatory, then why dont they issue each of us a colt 1911? I mean, the 2nd amendment is in the constitution, but healthcare is not.

 

[jillian]

This is a long read but very informative. Did you know that our founders enforced mandates?? I didn't. A great read for you pure constitutionalists and a great explanation of Romney's health care plan.

Open Letter To RedState, Part I: Mandates and Health Care | RedState

" Are our founders merely fino's ( founders in name only) or pino's ( patriots in name only) ?"


Chris Wallace Grills Mitt Romney on Health Care (Part 1) - YouTube

i don't see anything by a "constitutionalist". I see something on Redstates written by someone who works for Romney and who can't be found in a search of "constitutionalists" online.

 

[grunt11b]

He did not say that he was a constitutional expert, but I can tell you he knows more about the constitution than you do and a mandate is a mandate period, whether it is the government requiring you to purchase a gun and ammunition at your own expense or one that requires you to purchase a health care plan. It is a state's issue................................. not a federal one period................................

every mandate is not equal........


to compare the mandate of having a militia to defend the country to a mandate requiring people purchase health insurance has got to be one of the weakest attempts to defend romney i have ever seen.......


hell, by this "logic" the fact that we went form state militias to a standing federal one must mean that federal healthcare is good then.......

It is still a mandate, did you read long enough to see the early federal mandate that required sea going ships to have apothecary aboard?

The ocean is a part of the federal governments authority, so they can mandate that.

Did you read long enough to see the fence requirements and the mandate there and did you long read enough to see there was a mandate for civic services or be fined??

Those were all mandates and they were done by our founders.

Neither of which have anything to do with Commerce.

There is nothing good about a Federal health care plan, if you take the time to read the difference between state's rights and federal ones it will become very clear to you. Also I would suggest you familiarize yourself with the facts on Romney's plan compared to Obama's plan, there is no comparison other than the mandate.

Both have mandates.

Now, if you are a conservative you believe in personal responsibility. Please tell me how you are going to get the population to practice " personal responsibility" without a mandate to do so. I have asked this question 100 times and 100 times I have NOT gotten one answer. Liberals do not believe in personal responsibility it's their idea that it is everyone else's responsibility. So where do you stand?

It's not up to the government or anyone else to make sure that we are all responsible. That is why we as Americans are free to do as we wish, but do so responsibly. It's not up to us to keep our fellow citizens in check, that's what communists do.

 

[grunt11b]

every mandate is not equal........


to compare the mandate of having a militia to defend the country to a mandate requiring people purchase health insurance has got to be one of the weakest attempts to defend romney i have ever seen.......


hell, by this "logic" the fact that we went form state militias to a standing federal one must mean that federal healthcare is good then.......

It is still a mandate, did you read long enough to see the early federal mandate that required sea going ships to have apothecary aboard? Did you read long enough to see the fence requirements and the mandate there and did you long read enough to see there was a mandate for civic services or be fined??

Those were all mandates and they were done by our founders.

There is nothing good about a Federal health care plan, if you take the time to read the difference between state's rights and federal ones it will become very clear to you. Also I would suggest you familiarize yourself with the facts on Romney's plan compared to Obama's plan, there is no comparison other than the mandate.

Now, if you are a conservative you believe in personal responsibility. Please tell me how you are going to get the population to practice " personal responsibility" without a mandate to do so. I have asked this question 100 times and 100 times I have NOT gotten one answer. Liberals do not believe in personal responsibility it's their idea that it is everyone else's responsibility. So where do you stand?

Use your critical thought process here. How are you going to get irresponsible people to practice personal responsibility when you keep flipping the bill for them without using a mandate??

I anxiously await your reply.

Stop giving them other peoples money, trust me, they will come around eventually when they have to, the nanny state is what causes irresponsibility, you take that away, you take that behavior away.
there it is, in a nutshell.