Restaraunt gives discount for praying

[dblack]

No. I never said it had anything to do with "rights". Again, that's trolls trying to pervert the argument because they can't handle it any other way.

The race thing was a completely different tangent, after a poster said that a (hypothetical) restaurant should be allowed to offer discounts to white people. The first thing I pointed out was that that isn't the same case. Not related to this restaurant or what it's doing.

I've had it with these fucking lowlife trolls and their endless dishonest bullshit.

I think the race thing is quite related. In fact, I think it's the most interesting aspect of this issue. Public accommodations laws beg for this kind of debate, and it doesn't happen often enough.

I don't see anything fundamentally different between giving discounts to religious people and giving discounts to a specific race. In either case the business owner is granting preferential treatment to one group and excluding others.

This isn't a public accommodations issue, as no one is being denied access to goods or services as a consequence of race, religion, or gender.

Indeed, everyone is afforded a discount for 'praying,' regardless his race, religion, or gender – even those free from faith are allowed a discount for 'praying.'

It's no difference and no more or less appropriate than any other promotional scheme.

How about if they offered a discount to women who wore burkas?

 

[dblack]

Here's another 'thought experiment'. Bars routinely offer "ladies' night" discounts? How is that not a violation of discrimination laws? What if they did Honkies' night? Would that fly. So much hypocrisy and contradiction in this crap.

 

[Capstone]

. . .everyone is afforded a discount for 'praying,' regardless his race, religion, or gender – even those free from faith are allowed a discount for 'praying.' ...

That seems to be the ideal behind the discount alright, but there's some indication that it hasn't stood up to that ideal in practice. Since it has reportedly been left to the discretion of the waitstaff, possibly due to some of them voicing their opposition to the *policy*, "being seen" in prayer may depend on which server happens to be assigned to your table (And who knows where that person's motivations lie?). That's really the only weakness I can see with the idea.

 

[Capstone]

Here's another 'thought experiment'. Bars routinely offer "ladies' night" discounts? How is that not a violation of discrimination laws? What if they did Honkies' night? Would that fly. So much hypocrisy and contradiction in this crap.

Not everyone can be a lady or a honky. Barring medical conditions, anyone can join the military, become a senior citizen, and bow their heads in apparent reverence to something or other. In my opinion, the distinction between a universally accessible qualification and an exclusive one is where the justifiability of some of these discount policies turn.

 

[dblack]

Here's another 'thought experiment'. Bars routinely offer "ladies' night" discounts? How is that not a violation of discrimination laws? What if they did Honkies' night? Would that fly. So much hypocrisy and contradiction in this crap.

Not everyone can be a lady or a honky. Barring medical conditions, anyone can join the military, become a senior citizen, and bow their heads in apparent reverence to something or other. In my opinion, the distinction between a universally accessible qualification and an exclusive one is where the justifiability of some of these discount policies turn.

So you'd be ok with the burka thing?

 

[Capstone]

Here's another 'thought experiment'. Bars routinely offer "ladies' night" discounts? How is that not a violation of discrimination laws? What if they did Honkies' night? Would that fly. So much hypocrisy and contradiction in this crap.

Not everyone can be a lady or a honky. Barring medical conditions, anyone can join the military, become a senior citizen, and bow their heads in apparent reverence to something or other. In my opinion, the distinction between a universally accessible qualification and an exclusive one is where the justifiability of some of these discount policies turn.

So you'd be ok with the burka thing?

No, because not everyone could wear the burka appropriately (I.E. in accordance with its religious/social significance).

 

[dblack]

Not everyone can be a lady or a honky. Barring medical conditions, anyone can join the military, become a senior citizen, and bow their heads in apparent reverence to something or other. In my opinion, the distinction between a universally accessible qualification and an exclusive one is where the justifiability of some of these discount policies turn.

So you'd be ok with the burka thing?

No, because not everyone could wear the burka appropriately (I.E. in accordance with its religious/social significance).

Hah...ok. I didn't think you were serious.

 

[Capstone]

So you'd be ok with the burka thing?

No, because not everyone could wear the burka appropriately (I.E. in accordance with its religious/social significance).

Hah...ok. I didn't think you were serious.

Dead serious.

Let me know if you come up with anything problematic to my ideas.

 

[dblack]

No, because not everyone could wear the burka appropriately (I.E. in accordance with its religious/social significance).

Hah...ok. I didn't think you were serious.

Dead serious.

Let me know if you come up with anything problematic to my ideas.

Then I assume you'd agree an atheist can't pray appropriately, or do you have some "workaround" for that?

 

[saveliberty]

What about a discount for washing your hands prior to eating your dinner?

 

[dblack]

What about a discount for washing your hands prior to eating your dinner?

What about it? It doesn't relate to any 'protected classes', so I assume that's safe.

 

[saveliberty]

What about a discount for washing your hands prior to eating your dinner?

What about it? It doesn't relate to any 'protected classes', so I assume that's safe.

Who needs protecting?

 

[dblack]

What about a discount for washing your hands prior to eating your dinner?

What about it? It doesn't relate to any 'protected classes', so I assume that's safe.

Who needs protecting?

Protected classes aren't classes of people. They're traits that, according the Civil Rights Act and subsequent legislation, can't be used as a justification for discrimination. In other words, you can't discriminate against someone based on any reasons that fall under the list of protected classes. (Race, religion, sex, etc...)

 

[Capstone]

...or do you have some "workaround" for that?

Yes, namely the restaurant proprietor's statements as to her non-religious motivation. Anyone spotted in a moment of prayer-like contemplation qualifies for the discount, irrespective of their personal beliefs. That means an atheist could just as easily and legitimately fulfill her publicly stated criteria without gaming the system or compromising his/her own beliefs.

 

[dblack]

...or do you have some "workaround" for that?

Yes, namely the restaurant proprietor's statements as to her non-religious motivation. Anyone spotted in a moment of prayer-like contemplation qualifies for the discount, irrespective of their personal beliefs. That means an atheist could just as easily and legitimately fulfill her publicly stated criteria without gaming the system or compromising his/her own beliefs.

Heh.. I knew it. Ok... so let's say our burka restaurant had the same kind of fine print. If the owner stated that anyone woman who wore a burka-like outfit would get the discount, then you'd be ok with it?

 

[Capstone]

...or do you have some "workaround" for that?

Yes, namely the restaurant proprietor's statements as to her non-religious motivation. Anyone spotted in a moment of prayer-like contemplation qualifies for the discount, irrespective of their personal beliefs. That means an atheist could just as easily and legitimately fulfill her publicly stated criteria without gaming the system or compromising his/her own beliefs.

Heh.. I knew it. Ok... so let's say our burka restaurant had the same kind of fine print. If the owner stated that anyone woman who wore a burka-like outfit would get the discount, then you'd be ok with it?

Prayer-like contemplation isn't solely the province of Christians or theists of any stripe, and those who think otherwise need to wake up and smell the coffee. An atheist fulfilling Mary's stated criteria isn't a mockery of anyone else's beliefs, including the atheist himself. It is therefore completely appropriate.

How could a "burka-like outfit" fail to inappropriately evoke the religious/social significance of the legitimate garment in the hearts and minds of those to whom it is sacred?

 

[Capstone]

Heh.. I knew it. Ok... so let's say our burka restaurant had the same kind of fine print. If the owner stated that anyone woman who wore a burka-like outfit would get the discount, then you'd be ok with it?

I'd also frown on the gender-exclusive aspect highlighted above, but then you'd probably come back with a simple "anyone (period)" revision, right? Still inappropriate, though.

 

[dblack]

Heh.. I knew it. Ok... so let's say our burka restaurant had the same kind of fine print. If the owner stated that anyone woman who wore a burka-like outfit would get the discount, then you'd be ok with it?

I'd also frown on the gender-exclusive aspect highlighted above, but then you'd probably come back with a simple "anyone (period)" revision, right? Still inappropriate, though.

Well I wasn't so much concerned with what you'd frown on as with a consistent application of the legal principle. People here seem to be willing to ignore the obvious religious discrimination of this case, yet it's relatively easy to imagine (or, in fact, find) equivalent circumstances that they'd "frown on". I Just see an awful lot of hypocrisy in the way we apply discrimination laws and I think there's a reason for that. I think we all know, that if the concept were applied consistently we'd have a ubiquitous government telling us what to think, and what not to think, at every turn. I guess it's good we recognize that, but it seems it would give us pause to understand that that's what's going on currently in the instances where we do enforce it.

 

[sameech]

Here's another 'thought experiment'. Bars routinely offer "ladies' night" discounts? How is that not a violation of discrimination laws? What if they did Honkies' night? Would that fly. So much hypocrisy and contradiction in this crap.

You know that ladies night is just a way to get women into the bars so men will have a pool of potential conquests for the evening dontcha?

 

[dblack]

Here's another 'thought experiment'. Bars routinely offer "ladies' night" discounts? How is that not a violation of discrimination laws? What if they did Honkies' night? Would that fly. So much hypocrisy and contradiction in this crap.

You know that ladies night is just a way to get women into the bars so men will have a pool of potential conquests for the evening dontcha?

What???? You're kidding me! Say it ain't so.