Republican’s VS. Democrat’s Health Care Plan

[MaggieMae]

Here's another question,, both for dems and republicans.. how many people think that if we were not forced to pay for medical care and education and other entitlement for 30 million illegal aliens, then health care for all American citizens might be an obtainable goal??? anybody???

Unless they are doing it fraudulently (and yes, it happens), illegals are NOT entitled to any welfare benefits. They are treated at emergency rooms for health problems, and in some states children of illegals are allowed to attend public schools.

Illegal immigration is an enormous problem that NO ONE has a satisfactory solution for. Do you?

 

[MaggieMae]

Can I ask you a very simple question?


Republicans had control of the federal government for years, and never introduced or promoted any kind of healthcare bill that increased access to healthcare for americans.

I recall that when the republicans wanted to spend money, it was on war, halliburton, the pentagon, and missle defense.

So why, all of a "sudden", is the GOP trying to create policy on this?

thanks.

This is simply not true. It's too bad that we don't know the content of bills which are offered up by both parties, and that's because the MSM won't report any content at all. The D's, when they pass their bill (which they will) will probably have 900 pages and you won't have a clue about what's in it.

The evidence that what I've just said is true lies in the history of the MSAs and HSAs and the resistance of the Ds to let them come into existence. The Medical Savings account, by agreement with the Ds was limited to just 700,000 (I believe, but it could've been far less), and because of that limitation the Ds let them be created as a part of HIPAA in 1996. The first MSA's were passed in Missouri in 1993. By 1998, 25 states had some form of MSA legislation offering a state tax break to those who open MSAs, and the Republicans seeing the efficacy of those to bring competition to health care promoted the passage of the MSA accounts.

Why the 700,00 limit? The Rs had to agree to go along with that limit in hopes that they would grow in popularity and more would be allowed when the initial limit was reached. Did you know any of that? If not, I don't blame you; we simply cannot get the information we need to evaluate the policiy initiatives and differences of these two parties.

I blame the MSM becuase the limitations of our knowledge springs from there.

Why would the Rs allow their initiatives be limited as they do, even when they are in the majority? Because there are always RINO in the R caucus to split their vote, while on the other hand the Ds almost vote entirely along the dictates of their party.

The fact that we have such a huge information media and people remain so poorly informed about the very legislation that means life or death or affects their quality of life ought to concern everyone.

You can't get enough info on C-SPAN either, from the sessions of congress and the senate because they can't read those bills, they just call them "read" and vote on them. The only way to get informed watching C-SPAN is to pay attention to the policy discussions presented by the two sides, but the value can be sucked out of those by the innane phone caller system that allows Ds to call in as if they were Rs and degrade the conversation to the lowest common denominator for their fallback belief system which is hatred of Bush and things Republican.

Oh please. I listen to C-Span's call-in programs all the time, and that happens just as often on the so-called Republican lines against Obama and all things "liberal." I often hear more bullshit from those callers than I read it here on this board. Some days I want to cry because people are so shockingly ignorant. And they make their ignorance known to millions of listeners!!

 

[DiveCon]

First of all, neither DivCon or I are neocons.....And I'm not even a republican.

Secondly, the neocon claim of "spreading 'mockracy around the world" is more a comment on their ignorance that anything else.....Which also begs the question; why would you believe them in any case?

see why i call this dumb ***** a moron
how much more moronic crap does one need to display before it is obvious they are a moron?

Well gee, I'd like to see SOMETHING other than an insult coming from you. Are you even capable of that, child?

You're not only ignorant, you're borrrrrrrrring............

I'm only insulting to those that are basically insulting by their own ******* idiocy
you fit that bill

 

[MaggieMae]

Here's another question,, both for dems and republicans.. how many people think that if we were not forced to pay for medical care and education and other entitlement for 30 million illegal aliens, then health care for all American citizens might be an obtainable goal??? anybody???

Somebody from kullyfornia should be able to answer that... with 51% of the population espanic, and 45% of that being illegal aliens... how's that working out for them? Oh yeah... kullyfornia is DEAD ASS BROKE!

Gee WT... I think I just may have inadvertently answered your question...

Now why would you want to change "California" to "Kullyfornia" when "California" is actually of Spanish origin and would therefore justify your snarky comment?

 

[Meister]

Here's another question,, both for dems and republicans.. how many people think that if we were not forced to pay for medical care and education and other entitlement for 30 million illegal aliens, then health care for all American citizens might be an obtainable goal??? anybody???

Somebody from kullyfornia should be able to answer that... with 51% of the population espanic, and 45% of that being illegal aliens... how's that working out for them? Oh yeah... kullyfornia is DEAD ASS BROKE!

Gee WT... I think I just may have inadvertently answered your question...

Now why would you want to change "California" to "Kullyfornia" when "California" is actually of Spanish origin and would therefore justify your snarky comment?

Have you ever hear Arnie, say California....no, you hear him say Kaulifornya

 

[MaggieMae]

Then you know nothing of basic bookkeeping: Accounts recievable are always treated as assets on a balance sheet. For the status of those, you would need to read the P&L statement, but uncollected anticipated profits are assets when auditing the financial health of a company.

If you have a mortgage, are those payments on the "accounts payable" side of the ledger, or "accounts receivable"??

So now we're not talking about assets anymore? When my home is listed as an asset, it lists the value of the home at last appraisal, not a breakdown of the amortization schedule for my mortgage.

 

[MaggieMae]

Can I ask you a very simple question?

Republicans had control of the federal government for years, and never introduced or promoted any kind of healthcare bill that increased access to healthcare for americans.

I recall that when the republicans wanted to spend money, it was on war, halliburton, the pentagon, and missle defense.

So why, all of a "sudden", is the GOP trying to create policy on this?

thanks.

Once again Red, I use your most useful question as a foil to attempt to make this thread a useful one for its readers:

This is interesting - If you went to the British Publication, The Lancet a 1996 article, you might have been able to find out the following:
(HEADLINE) - Compromise found on US medical savings accounts

“Prospects for final Congressional action on health-insurance reform legislation brightened on July 25, when Democrats and Republicans agreed on a compromise 4-year test of controversial Medical Savings Accounts. Disputes over the MSA issue—included in the version that passed the US House in March but rejected by the Senate in the bill it passed 100-0 in April—have kept the otherwise popular bill in legislative limbo for more than 3 months…."
(and then we come to this notification - “To read this article in full you will need to login or make a payment” hmmmm…..and the bill was kept in limbo until an agreement could be reached between the whole of the R side with only one on the D (one being Senator Kennedy) side to allow this important bill to become law - notice the bill finally passed in the Senate 100 to 0)

(See Lancet , 347 : 1179 3 August 1996). (also this legislative action was being reported in the WSJ at the same time)

Link to the Lancet article HERE


Another Editorial: “Enhancing Medical Care in the U.S. via Health Savings Accounts”(HSAs)
By Miguel A. Faria, Jr., M.D.
Here’s some legislative history in an editorial in Surgical Neurology September 2005 Vol. 64 No. 3; this article shows the number of participants was limited to 750,000 by a bill agreed to by Sen. Nancy Kassebaum and Sen Kennedy:

”..., the Kassebaum-Kennedy law set up a pilot project for MSAs which, unfortunately, had a slow start because many of the provisions were preordained to failure by a number of restrictions. For example, there was a cap of 750,000 MSA openings; there were unwieldy, required deductibles; there were sun setting provisions (i.e., the program closed after a four-year period); and availability was limited to the self-employed and to small businesses with less than fifty employees. All of these requirements predictably made MSAs unattractive to insurers.”

So I ask anyone following this: Were you aware of the difficulties in getting a bill passed that would allow companies (including sole-proprietors and independent contractors) to create a health care program that encouraged competition into the system by creating tax free high deductible policies which the owner could save and accrue annually giving them an interest in making the selection of providers competitive? And did you notice how Kennedy and the democrats tried to cripple the efficacy of the MSA section of the bill in the last paragraph of the last quote?

I'm not undertstanding your point. It stands to reason that in practice the MSA would not be popular for the very reasons highlighted. Another deterrence is even more simple: The very people who NEED some sort of slush fund to pay for medical bills are the same ones who can't afford either!!

 

[MaggieMae]

So how come the neocon ideal for world peace wasn't called "spreading representative republicanism around the world"??

Just because the word "Republic" is included in the GOP's official party name, doesn't mean the word "democratic" doesn't also apply to our form of government. It ain't rocket science, genius.

But why am I arguing with you who "labels" anyone who disagrees with your absurdities as a "moron." Your vocabulary is obviously pretty limited anyway.

First of all, neither DivCon or I are neocons.....And I'm not even a republican.

Secondly, the neocon claim of "spreading 'mockracy around the world" is more a comment on their ignorance that anything else.....Which also begs the question; why would you believe them in any case?

I didn't.

 

[American Horse]

but the value can be sucked out of those by the innane phone caller system that allows Ds to call in as if they were Rs and degrade the conversation to the lowest common denominator for their fallback belief system which is hatred of Bush and things Republican.

Oh please. I listen to C-Span's call-in programs all the time, and that happens just as often on the so-called Republican lines against Obama and all things "liberal." I often hear more bullshit from those callers than I read it here on this board. Some days I want to cry because people are so shockingly ignorant. And they make their ignorance known to millions of listeners!!

Clearly Maggie, from looking at your posts you wouldn't recognize bias. Make a test yourself, count the callers. How many time does a caller representing themselves as Ds make a R comment, and vice versa; then count what percentage of the time you agree with the so called independents? As a matter of fact just count how many overall you agree with that ought to reveal something for you. It's so bad that they no longer - after the calls are first set up for the topic - even signify which line the caller is supposed to represent. All you who are interested, don't take Mag's or my word for it, monitor it yourself early some mornings before the House opens for business.

Edit: However Maggie, the part above which I bolded.....we can agree on that!

 

[MaggieMae]

Indeed, there are bullshit artists coming from all sides. Yours included. Just because you articulate B-U-L-L-S-H-I-T better than some doesn't make it smell any better.

Do you have anything of relevance to add, or are you just having a Tourette's attack in your hands??

Occasionally I take a break from trying to bring some factual reality to your surreal little worlds and I like to sling some of it right back.

 

[MaggieMae]

Since I now qualify for Medicare, that 20% gets paid BY ME. Hello?!

Oh, NOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!

How dare anyone expect you to pay even a little of your own freight!!!!

In all honestly, personally I can afford to pay for lots of stuff. But there's this odd side of me called COMPASSION for others who are not quite as fortunate. It used to be the American way. Not anymore, apparently.

 

[MaggieMae]

No, the private sector covers more than old people's medical and outpatient benefits.

And that 20% gets billed to somebody else.

You should feel lucky to live in a country where you can buy a health plan that works for you, and not the statists who give you no choices with your healthcare.

Since I now qualify for Medicare, that 20% gets paid BY ME. Hello?!

not if you buy a supplemental plan

Which I have to buy. Duh...

 

[MaggieMae]

Since I now qualify for Medicare, that 20% gets paid BY ME. Hello?!

Oh, NOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!

How dare anyone expect you to pay even a little of your own freight!!!!

we need to let JohnRocks talk to her

Uh oh... having a Tourette's attack boys? Can't think of anything smart to say? Surprise surprise...

 

[MaggieMae]

Who's the bullshitter here? You could always go to a bank and get a certified check. Lots of medical clinics don't handle large amounts of CASH, for obvious reasons.

You're the bullshitter.

I've walked into a couple hospital inpatient areas, not the ER, and had the money for the minor treatments needed (which themselves didn't cost more than a couple hundred dollars) in my hand, showing it to the intake personnel in fact, and was still turned away because I had no insurance.

And you don't get why? It's a HOSPITAL, where all sorts of diagnostic procedures might be needed, for which your greenbacks wouldn't even make a dent.

That said, I seriously doubt you were flat-out turned away. Part of the problem is that hospitals cannot turn people away who are in need of emergency care. So your pile of shit just tripled. Eeewwww.

Of course if you are a walk-in at the ER who is obviously stoned, you're apt to get escorted out, or if you're looking for "help" for your problem, you'll get placed in the mental ward to detox first. Are you sure you didn't just choose to walk OUT knowing that?

 

[MaggieMae]

I disagree; the Republican plan stimulates competition by making a considerable part of the money spent by the insured their own money. People look out for their own money with a lot more diligence than they do someone elses money. No?

Medicare works great and administrative costs are a fraction of what private plans are.
Would you ask your parents or grandparents to give up their Social Security or Medicare? I'll bet you consider both Socialist programs.

You'd lose that bet PJ. These are necessary for those who've worked hard, worn out their bodies (even their minds) and need help in their old age - or younger when disabled - to maintain themselves. But I'd bet that once we have a single payer plan, Medicare will be rolled into it, or the rationing that results will mean that the old and disabled are shunted aside as being insufficiently productive to make their health benefits good returns on "investment". That’s because the system will be ‘strapped’ for money. Therefore/and also someone needing knee surgery to remain productive will lose their productivity, lowering their worth to society, and will live a shorter, lower quality of life as a result of those 'policy' (life and death) decisions. This will amount to a form of euthanasia, something we already see at the beginning of life becoming operational at the end of life.

As for SS, all those treasury notes that were issued to allow the government to draw down the dollars paid in have to be taken into account when we say that SS is bankrupt. Right now all we seem to take into account is 'cash flow'. The policy makers allow that misconception to go on because it allows them to game the system to their own ends, and because they don't want those loans in mega-bucks to be counted in the public consciousness.

I keep harping at this logical prediction, because although most of you may be younger than forty years of age, look back and take note how quickly the months, years, decades have rolled by already. Before you know it these decisions will have implications on whether or not you have become expendable. The situation of your own parents should make that clear. When you were born they were probably as young as you are now, or even younger; time flies.

Face it; we have a choice between competition and a government monopoly in the form of a bureaucracy in the distribution of health care services. I opt for competition and the productivity of a free market system providing for the vulnerable through the public conscience, rather than a bureaucracy.

Truth be told, that's how everyone WISHES it would work, but it just hasn't yet and it's only getting worse, never better. And THAT is the problem. You can't wish it away.

 

[MaggieMae]

see why i call this dumb ***** a moron
how much more moronic crap does one need to display before it is obvious they are a moron?

Well gee, I'd like to see SOMETHING other than an insult coming from you. Are you even capable of that, child?

You're not only ignorant, you're borrrrrrrrring............

I'm only insulting to those that are basically insulting by their own ******* idiocy
you fit that bill

Whatever. Why don't you tell me what makes you smarter and wiser than me? Again, I never see anything at all substantive posted by you. You might as well twitter all day.

 

[MaggieMae]

Somebody from kullyfornia should be able to answer that... with 51% of the population espanic, and 45% of that being illegal aliens... how's that working out for them? Oh yeah... kullyfornia is DEAD ASS BROKE!

Gee WT... I think I just may have inadvertently answered your question...

Now why would you want to change "California" to "Kullyfornia" when "California" is actually of Spanish origin and would therefore justify your snarky comment?

Have you ever hear Arnie, say California....no, you hear him say Kaulifornya

That I would have understood. Okay.

 

[Oddball]

Uh oh... having a Tourette's attack boys? Can't think of anything smart to say? Surprise surprise...

I'm not deaf, I'm ignoring you.....and my I.Q. has mercifully restored myself from the previous conversation.

 

[MaggieMae]

but the value can be sucked out of those by the innane phone caller system that allows Ds to call in as if they were Rs and degrade the conversation to the lowest common denominator for their fallback belief system which is hatred of Bush and things Republican.

Oh please. I listen to C-Span's call-in programs all the time, and that happens just as often on the so-called Republican lines against Obama and all things "liberal." I often hear more bullshit from those callers than I read it here on this board. Some days I want to cry because people are so shockingly ignorant. And they make their ignorance known to millions of listeners!!

Clearly Maggie, from looking at your posts you wouldn't recognize bias. Make a test yourself, count the callers. How many time does a caller representing themselves as Ds make a R comment, and vice versa; then count what percentage of the time you agree with the so called independents? As a matter of fact just count how many overall you agree with that ought to reveal something for you. It's so bad that they no longer - after the calls are first set up for the topic - even signify which line the caller is supposed to represent. All you who are interested, don't take Mag's or my word for it, monitor it yourself early some mornings before the House opens for business.

Edit: However Maggie, the part above which I bolded.....we can agree on that!

I often don't catch the evening call-in programs, but I ALWAYS listen to/watch Washington Journal, seven days a week, only flipping channels if there is some really important story going on (like NK's nuclear test). WJ still has the designated lines, and I do recognize that occasionally someone will obviously not represent the proper party phone line, but also, in those cases, the moderator usually catches it. Now they're asking for first names, which is rather pointless, unless it's an attempt to better enforce the 30-day policy. My real name isn't Maggie but just one of several nicknames I've had over the years, so I could use each of those if I wanted. I've only called once, a long time ago when David Walker was still comptroller general, and it had to do with controlling Pentagon waste, an apolitical subject anyway.

 

[DiveCon]

Oh, NOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!

How dare anyone expect you to pay even a little of your own freight!!!!

we need to let JohnRocks talk to her

Uh oh... having a Tourette's attack boys? Can't think of anything smart to say? Surprise surprise...

no *****, he could help you get a good medicare sup package
sheeesh
you really are a massive *****