Red Lobster suspends waitress after she was insulted with a racial slur

[BullKurtz]

Who should people believe: some e-tough guy or what the state's statute specifically says (find 39-14-114 at LexisNexis® Custom Solution: Tennessee Code Research Tool for those interested)?

I've never said it matters whether or not the "forger" gained (it doesn't, by the way, nor does it require an intent to defraud a specific party). What it does require is intent to defraud or harm (in this context, financial gain). Even we accept all your claims about the waitress as true, you still wouldn't have the necessary elements. Those claims are all highly suspect anywhere, not even close to reaching beyond a reasonable doubt. They're not even enough to win a civil judgment.

Is not publicly implying that an innocent party is a racist an attempt to defraud or injure?

No, because there is no potential for financial gain from the act.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

It's cute when you guys try to play lawyer. Forgery requires an intent to defraud, so even if we accept his story, it doesn't contain a necessary element of the offense.

A good prosecutor could argue that there was intent to defraud because she ended up making money off of it. It would be hard to convince me that that was her intent, but there are a few people it would work on.

So? People don't step in front of cars or slip purposefully in puddles in grocery stores?. There are lots of people who fake injuries to collect damages.

I am talking about the facts in this specific case. I think she was being stupid and had no criminal intent from what I have seen, but it is entirely possible there is something that proves she had criminal intent.

 

[Againsheila]

I was not sure from the photo if Red Lobster had kept up with technology. I'd say the customers use of a word that keeps this country divided and unable to get past slavery more of an issue than the partial release of said customers information.

Red Lobster and everybody else has to have modern terminals for security reasons....about 5 years ago the industry deemed old terminals unsecure/unencrypted and quit taking transactions from them. The copy in question is the customer copy which would have been handed to him after the transaction was completed....there would be no way he could have written "******" on his copy, or ever signed it, and her being able to snap a pic of it, unless he never got his copy or left it behind because he was in a hurry.... Bogus story.....hopefully Facebook gets sued for allowing it to be posted.

She has to check if he signed it; otherwise the credit-card charge is no good. So she immediately sees the horrible!!! word and doesn't confront him right in the restaurant?

Well, I wouldn't confront someone like that. Not if it's me he insulted, maybe if it were my kid.

I've been thinking about this and if it was me, no I wouldn't confront him but then again, I wouldn't have posted it on the internet either. If she's the kind of person to post this on the internet, she's probably the kind of person that would have confronted him.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Who should people believe: some e-tough guy or what the state's statute specifically says (find 39-14-114 at LexisNexis® Custom Solution: Tennessee Code Research Tool for those interested)?

I've never said it matters whether or not the "forger" gained (it doesn't, by the way, nor does it require an intent to defraud a specific party). What it does require is intent to defraud or harm (in this context, financial gain). Even we accept all your claims about the waitress as true, you still wouldn't have the necessary elements. Those claims are all highly suspect anywhere, not even close to reaching beyond a reasonable doubt. They're not even enough to win a civil judgment.

You're continuing to confuse this issue with libel law...this is CRIMINAL LAW ya drooler. At least now your admitting you screwed the pooch with the silly claim of "intent" in defraud or injure....not sure why you're continuing to pursue this other than your face is burning with embarrassment and you're angry for playing the fool for me. BTW I'm not an "e" tough guy....heartbreaker and lifetaker IRW, sugar lips. xxxxxxooooo

No one has mentioned libel except you. You must have intent to defraud or harm. That's from the statute.

http://www.leapu.com/resources/TENNESSEETM.pdf

I might have missed it, but I didn't see anything there about harm being limited to financial gain. Come to think of it, I didn't see anything thre that limited defraud to money either. Is it possible you need to look up the word defraud in the Tennessee code?

 

[Polk]

Don't know if this has been mentioned yet, but if his receipt doesn't have the "******" scrawled on it, that waitress is also guilty of forgery.....credit card receipts are legal documents. Will a prosecutor charge her? probably not....nobody got stabbed.

It's cute when you guys try to play lawyer. Forgery requires an intent to defraud, so even if we accept his story, it doesn't contain a necessary element of the offense.

A good prosecutor could argue that there was intent to defraud because she ended up making money off of it. It would be hard to convince me that that was her intent, but there are a few people it would work on.

You'd get laughed out of the court.

 

[Againsheila]

Don't know if this has been mentioned yet, but if his receipt doesn't have the "******" scrawled on it, that waitress is also guilty of forgery.....credit card receipts are legal documents. Will a prosecutor charge her? probably not....nobody got stabbed.

You're right. Wonder where his copy of the receipt is? If it was me, I'd probably have tossed it. But if he didn't, that's his proof right there.

No, because the receipts at restaurants are not carbon copies.

Good point, I had a flashback there.....

 

[BullKurtz]

If you work retail, you should always see to it the information on the receipt matches what's on the card. The bogus card transmits the data on the magnetic stripe on the back of the card not what's printed on the front of the card. If you take transactions on the Net, always ask for the 3 digit CVV (card valuation verifictation) number on the back...this tells you the buyer has the card in his hand and hasn't fished the information out of a dumpster. My bet is this isn't the first caper the black waitress has pulled off with a credit card customer. Police should check the place for a contraband card-reader and look into other complaints of fraud originating from that Red Lobster. It may be why they've handled this incident like they have. At First Data, an incident like this could get the restaurant TMFed (terminated merchant file) from which there is no appeal.....could they operate without taking credit cards? Not likely.

 

[Polk]

Modern credit card terminals use thermal printers....no carbon like back in the beginning....both receipts are printed one after the other. Only in the last few years have the customer's copy entire card number been Xed out except for the last 4 digits....imagine if she'd put that on her Facebook page. This waitress have committed multiple felonies, both state and federal statuates broken, and the story is what.....that the customer is a "racist"? HUH?

I was not sure from the photo if Red Lobster had kept up with technology. I'd say the customers use of a word that keeps this country divided and unable to get past slavery more of an issue than the partial release of said customers information.

Red Lobster and everybody else has to have modern terminals for security reasons....about 5 years ago the industry deemed old terminals unsecure/unencrypted and quit taking transactions from them. The copy in question is the customer copy which would have been handed to him after the transaction was completed....there would be no way he could have written "******" on his copy, or ever signed it, and her being able to snap a pic of it, unless he never got his copy or left it behind because he was in a hurry.... Bogus story.....hopefully Facebook gets sued for allowing it to be posted.

Please, Mr. Scholar, explain the basis for Facebook's liability.

Also, most places hand the customer their copy and the store's copy at the same time. People often sign the customer copy and take the store copy with them.

 

[Ernie S.]

A good prosecutor could argue that there was intent to defraud because she ended up making money off of it. It would be hard to convince me that that was her intent, but there are a few people it would work on.

So? People don't step in front of cars or slip purposefully in puddles in grocery stores?. There are lots of people who fake injuries to collect damages.

I am talking about the facts in this specific case. I think she was being stupid and had no criminal intent from what I have seen, but it is entirely possible there is something that proves she had criminal intent.

So, you have reason to believe she is not a scam artist. Did her posting of the receipt on line convince you that she was a woman of character?

It's simple. The customer says he wrote none and left. The waitress says he wrote "******" below "none" and then posted a photo of a customer's private financial information. This is about all we have with which to judge their characters.
Game set and match, customer.

 

[Polk]

No, what's "cute" is when idiots like you try to get by with fake knowledge on the subject.....Forgery need not have "an intent to defraud"....if you're a lawyer, you're a piss-poor one. I'm quite familiar with the legalities of credit card processing; you obviously are not. It's also a federal beef what she did because credit card transactions are interstate commerce. If the customer in question pursues her, she'll end up with multiple charges against her....well, she would if the DOJ prosectued blacks during Hussein's illegal presidency.

Forgery requires intent to injure or defraud (both of which refer to monetary damage). There was no effort to take money from Mr. McRacist here.

As usual, the person who is arguing that he understands the issues doesn't. There doesn't have to be any money, or actual harm, involved, all that is necessary is that the forger intended to pass a false document off as a real one.

Elements of Forgery - Forgery

The statute has been posted twice in the thread at this point. All of the relevant case law defines the harm as being monetary in nature. Your citation to a random blog doesn't overwrite that.

 

[Polk]

HOLY TOLEDO! are you a masochist or just trying to recover some dignity? Forgery is forgery in all 50 states and territories...it doesn't require "intent" to defraud or injure in any state. When you add to a person's private correspondence or legal papers, you are a forger whether you gain anything from it or not, or whether the person is injured or not. And forgery isn't defined by faking a person's signature either. I'll have to charge you for any further legal training and I don't accept American Express...their interchange rates are always 150bp above Visa and MC.....go Google what I just said for free.

Who should people believe: some e-tough guy or what the state's statute specifically says (find 39-14-114 at LexisNexis® Custom Solution: Tennessee Code Research Tool for those interested)?

I've never said it matters whether or not the "forger" gained (it doesn't, by the way, nor does it require an intent to defraud a specific party). What it does require is intent to defraud or harm (in this context, financial gain). Even we accept all your claims about the waitress as true, you still wouldn't have the necessary elements. Those claims are all highly suspect anywhere, not even close to reaching beyond a reasonable doubt. They're not even enough to win a civil judgment.

Financial, or personal, gain.

The forgery statute only refers to financial gain.

 

[Againsheila]

I was not sure from the photo if Red Lobster had kept up with technology. I'd say the customers use of a word that keeps this country divided and unable to get past slavery more of an issue than the partial release of said customers information.

Red Lobster and everybody else has to have modern terminals for security reasons....about 5 years ago the industry deemed old terminals unsecure/unencrypted and quit taking transactions from them. The copy in question is the customer copy which would have been handed to him after the transaction was completed....there would be no way he could have written "******" on his copy, or ever signed it, and her being able to snap a pic of it, unless he never got his copy or left it behind because he was in a hurry.... Bogus story.....hopefully Facebook gets sued for allowing it to be posted.

Please, Mr. Scholar, explain the basis for Facebook's liability.

Also, most places hand the customer their copy and the store's copy at the same time. People often sign the customer copy and take the store copy with them.

Doesn't that make it impossible for the store to get their money?

 

[BullKurtz]

I was not sure from the photo if Red Lobster had kept up with technology. I'd say the customers use of a word that keeps this country divided and unable to get past slavery more of an issue than the partial release of said customers information.

Red Lobster and everybody else has to have modern terminals for security reasons....about 5 years ago the industry deemed old terminals unsecure/unencrypted and quit taking transactions from them. The copy in question is the customer copy which would have been handed to him after the transaction was completed....there would be no way he could have written "******" on his copy, or ever signed it, and her being able to snap a pic of it, unless he never got his copy or left it behind because he was in a hurry.... Bogus story.....hopefully Facebook gets sued for allowing it to be posted.

She has to check if he signed it; otherwise the credit-card charge is no good. So she immediately sees the horrible!!! word and doesn't confront him right in the restaurant?

Nah, many merchants have joined the "no signature" program to speed up lines at the cashier's counter....not sure what the dollar amounts are these days but it used to be anything under $50....this is the vaunted "smart card" technology the industry bragged about for years but never got around to doing. Use your debit card on deals like these...why worry about paying off your CC balance on little things? The merchant loves it because he's got his money without paying interchange....the pin number shows him you're who you say you are, the money is in his account within 48 hours and it only cost him from 8-22 cents. And remember, the more card transactions a merchant takes is the less cash he needs on hand to make change, which makes him less likely to be robbed at gunpoint.

 

[The Gadfly]

Tank is a great example of what I'm talking about. All I would have to do is stare at him and he would get red faced and angry but wouldn't dare say anything to my face unless he was headed in the opposite direction in a fast moving car. I know the type well.

Alright, both of you indulge me, while I tell you a personal story, from back in the mid-seventies. I had gone Christmas shopping on a wet, cold, blustery evening, and as I stepped inside the store, I paused to look back at some Christmas decorations just inside the entrance. As I did I saw a woman approaching the door both hands and arms loaded down with shopping bags and packages. The store wasn't crowded, there was no one else immediately around, so I turned back and opened first the outer door, then the inner door for herShe took a few steps insider, the spun on her heels and faced me. She was a black woman, apparently about my age at the time, and the expression on her face looked like someone who had just smelled something putrid. Then, in a loud voice fairly dripping with hate, she spat out the words, "Well, thank you...HONKY!" I have to admit, I was taken aback at this response to what I thought was a simple act of common decency, something I'd have done for anyone, under the circumstances; but I recovered, smiled, and quietly shot back, "You're quite welcome....******!' I left here standing there, mouth agape, and walked away, feeling rather pleased with myself; "I showed her!", or so I thought.

It was a small, petty incident, and nothing came of it, but I've thought about it many times since, and I thought about it when we were discussing this latest incident last night. Was what I did right? I don't think so. True, she insulted me without provocation; in fact, for simply being courteous, with a "thank you" that was like a Christmas present wrapped in a turd, and I showed her...what exactly? That a white man of her generation would respond to nothing more than that with a hateful, degrading word? How do I know what inspired her to say what she did in the first place-was it some old hatred, a busy frustrating day, an earlier unpleasant reaction with someone who happened to look like me? I don't know, but I do know, that I had a choice that evening, and it would have done me no harm at all, to simply ignore the remark, and silently walk away, instead of validating whatever negative opinion she had of my race. I'm not proud of what I did, instead; I feel sure that noting good came of it, but just maybe, there's a lesson in there somewhere about the difference between immediate emotional gratification, and doing the right thing.

I think what you did was hilarious! She got what she had coming in my opinion....you smacked her on the exaxct level she was operating on and showed her that her racism would be answered in kind. Don't overthink this.....what you said doesn't make you a racist, just quick on the draw.

Thanks, but that wan't my point. I don't think that particular "retaliation in kind" was racist (at least, that was not my intent); and it may even have been justified (as you believe it was). The larger question, though, is what it accomplished. Obviously, my retort made me feel better at the moment; but beyond that, what did it do? Did it "teach her a lesson"? Yes, and that lesson was that a white man, even one who would take a moment to show her an act of courtesy and respect, would still refer to her race in a degrading manner, on a rather small provocation. I doubt that improved her perception; in her mind, all it did, was confirm the idea that "White people, even the apparently nicer ones, still despise me, because of the color of my skin; scratch the surface, and you'll see!" Now, what if I had simply said nothing? She might have gone away thinking, "I said that to one of THEM, and he didn't react; didn't even call me a name; and he DID open the door for me. Maybe SOME of THEM aren't as bad as I thought." At least the seed of doubt would have been planted. As it was, the decent act got lost in the hateful word, which was likely her only real memory of the encounter later. THAT represents a lost opportunity to open just one mind to possibilities it had not seen, and that's the point I was trying to make. There's nothing remarkable about meeting hate with hate; it's the refusal to do so, which is more likely to make someone think, and question previous assumptions.

 

[Polk]

Red Lobster and everybody else has to have modern terminals for security reasons....about 5 years ago the industry deemed old terminals unsecure/unencrypted and quit taking transactions from them. The copy in question is the customer copy which would have been handed to him after the transaction was completed....there would be no way he could have written "******" on his copy, or ever signed it, and her being able to snap a pic of it, unless he never got his copy or left it behind because he was in a hurry.... Bogus story.....hopefully Facebook gets sued for allowing it to be posted.

Please, Mr. Scholar, explain the basis for Facebook's liability.

Also, most places hand the customer their copy and the store's copy at the same time. People often sign the customer copy and take the store copy with them.

Doesn't that make it impossible for the store to get their money?

No.

 

[Asclepias]

No where in our Constitution do I see anything granting us freedom from being offended.

I suggest you develop a thicker skin. It makes insensitive bores like Bodey easier to deal with.

Life is not lived solely by the Constitution. Thats a document providing a framework protecting our rights not defining them. I agree Blacks should develop thicker skin but the point I am making is why should we have to? Whats wrong with a culture that thinks insulting or offending someone is something that is going to result in positive progress?

 

[BullKurtz]

Red Lobster and everybody else has to have modern terminals for security reasons....about 5 years ago the industry deemed old terminals unsecure/unencrypted and quit taking transactions from them. The copy in question is the customer copy which would have been handed to him after the transaction was completed....there would be no way he could have written "******" on his copy, or ever signed it, and her being able to snap a pic of it, unless he never got his copy or left it behind because he was in a hurry.... Bogus story.....hopefully Facebook gets sued for allowing it to be posted.

Please, Mr. Scholar, explain the basis for Facebook's liability.

Also, most places hand the customer their copy and the store's copy at the same time. People often sign the customer copy and take the store copy with them.

Doesn't that make it impossible for the store to get their money?

pay no attention to this dipshit. Giving the customer the STORE copy of the receipt, (the signed one) might get the merchant paid unless the customer disputes the charge which anybody with a brain and a sense of larceny would try to do because without the signature, the customer can claim they had a coke and a burger not a steak dinner with a bottle of wine.

 

[Polk]

Except that there is a signature line on the customer receipt. Most people sign it without even realizing it. Also, most people aren't thieves.

 

[BullKurtz]

Alright, both of you indulge me, while I tell you a personal story, from back in the mid-seventies. I had gone Christmas shopping on a wet, cold, blustery evening, and as I stepped inside the store, I paused to look back at some Christmas decorations just inside the entrance. As I did I saw a woman approaching the door both hands and arms loaded down with shopping bags and packages. The store wasn't crowded, there was no one else immediately around, so I turned back and opened first the outer door, then the inner door for herShe took a few steps insider, the spun on her heels and faced me. She was a black woman, apparently about my age at the time, and the expression on her face looked like someone who had just smelled something putrid. Then, in a loud voice fairly dripping with hate, she spat out the words, "Well, thank you...HONKY!" I have to admit, I was taken aback at this response to what I thought was a simple act of common decency, something I'd have done for anyone, under the circumstances; but I recovered, smiled, and quietly shot back, "You're quite welcome....******!' I left here standing there, mouth agape, and walked away, feeling rather pleased with myself; "I showed her!", or so I thought.

It was a small, petty incident, and nothing came of it, but I've thought about it many times since, and I thought about it when we were discussing this latest incident last night. Was what I did right? I don't think so. True, she insulted me without provocation; in fact, for simply being courteous, with a "thank you" that was like a Christmas present wrapped in a turd, and I showed her...what exactly? That a white man of her generation would respond to nothing more than that with a hateful, degrading word? How do I know what inspired her to say what she did in the first place-was it some old hatred, a busy frustrating day, an earlier unpleasant reaction with someone who happened to look like me? I don't know, but I do know, that I had a choice that evening, and it would have done me no harm at all, to simply ignore the remark, and silently walk away, instead of validating whatever negative opinion she had of my race. I'm not proud of what I did, instead; I feel sure that noting good came of it, but just maybe, there's a lesson in there somewhere about the difference between immediate emotional gratification, and doing the right thing.

I think what you did was hilarious! She got what she had coming in my opinion....you smacked her on the exaxct level she was operating on and showed her that her racism would be answered in kind. Don't overthink this.....what you said doesn't make you a racist, just quick on the draw.

Thanks, but that wan't my point. I don't think that particular "retaliation in kind" was racist (at least, that was not my intent); and it may even have been justified (as you believe it was). The larger question, though, is what it accomplished. Obviously, my retort made me feel better at the moment; but beyond that, what did it do? Did it "teach her a lesson"? Yes, and that lesson was that a white man, even one who would take a moment to show her an act of courtesy and respect, would still refer to her race in a degrading manner, on a rather small provocation. I doubt that improved her perception; in her mind, all it did, was confirm the idea that "White people, even the apparently nicer ones, still despise me, because of the color of my skin; scratch the surface, and you'll see!" Now, what if I had simply said nothing? She might have gone away thinking, "I said that to one of THEM, and he didn't react; didn't even call me a name; and he DID open the door for me. Maybe SOME of THEM aren't as bad as I thought." At least the seed of doubt would have been planted. As it was, the decent act got lost in the hateful word, which was likely her only real memory of the encounter later. THAT represents a lost opportunity to open just one mind to possibilities it had not seen, and that's the point I was trying to make. There's nothing remarkable about meeting hate with hate; it's the refusal to do so, which is more likely to make someone think, and question previous assumptions.

Whatever...if you want to beat yourself up over it go on ahead. Sometimes we must leave well-enough alone or else we'd be searching for a grocer we swiped an apple from 30 years earlier. I'm sure you're carrying this burden alone because I doubt she remembers it or cares much about it. If you woke her ass up to her own racism then you get points with the Man Upstairs....cherish your victories.

 

[Asclepias]

Modern credit card terminals use thermal printers....no carbon like back in the beginning....both receipts are printed one after the other. Only in the last few years have the customer's copy entire card number been Xed out except for the last 4 digits....imagine if she'd put that on her Facebook page. This waitress have committed multiple felonies, both state and federal statuates broken, and the story is what.....that the customer is a "racist"? HUH?

I was not sure from the photo if Red Lobster had kept up with technology. I'd say the customers use of a word that keeps this country divided and unable to get past slavery more of an issue than the partial release of said customers information.

Red Lobster and everybody else has to have modern terminals for security reasons....about 5 years ago the industry deemed old terminals unsecure/unencrypted and quit taking transactions from them. The copy in question is the customer copy which would have been handed to him after the transaction was completed....there would be no way he could have written "******" on his copy, or ever signed it, and her being able to snap a pic of it, unless he never got his copy or left it behind because he was in a hurry.... Bogus story.....hopefully Facebook gets sued for allowing it to be posted.

I dont get your point in saying that. The photo is of the restaraunts copy if I am not mistaken. How would she have his copy? When I go to a restaraunt I am presented with 3 slips of paper. One which I total including the tip, sign, and give back to the waiter/waitress. The other 2 I keep for tax purposes. I then walk out and rarely has the waiter or waitress picked up the slip I left behind before I leave. I dont eat at Red Lobsters so maybe they do something different? Either way if this new system is in place in all restaurants then he had ample opportunity to sign it and write the nasty slur without it appearing on his copy.