Re-examining the Claims for Illegal Immigration

[Annie]

That of course, goes to peception. The hard-liners, who I include the "religious right" in, think the moderates/centrists/"neocons" are the problem and vice-versa.

While your idea is sound, it failed to happen with the Democrats. The extremists outshouted the moderates, the party took to pushing extreme stances, and the moderates bailed. Since them, the only time Dems have won anything except in hopelessly brainwashed liberal extremist areas is when Republicans have offered nothing.

If the Republican party goes through the same internal split, it will become amirror image of what the Democrat party has been since the late 70s.

Yup got to find the 'points of overlap' and prioritize. Neither the 'right' or the 'neocons' are that large of groups. Truth is, the GOP is mostly a conglomeration of just to the right or is that left, libertarians, IMHO.

 

[Gunny]

Yup got to find the 'points of overlap' and prioritize. Neither the 'right' or the 'neocons' are that large of groups. Truth is, the GOP is mostly a conglomeration of just to the right or is that left, libertarians, IMHO.

I think it's more a triangle when you add libertarians. I have to admit, I DO agree with some of their views. However, as with Republicans and Dems, libertarians have their special ed kids, and those kids on the libertarian side are anarchists.

Having abandoned personal accoutability in this nation, we are not mature enough to handle anarchy.

 

[Annie]

I think it's more a triangle when you add libertarians. I have to admit, I DO agree with some of their views. However, as with Republicans and Dems, libertarians have their special ed kids, and those kids on the libertarian side are anarchists.

Having abandoned personal accoutability in this nation, we are not mature enough to handle anarchy.

That's why I said 'just to the right/left of'. I think the GOP would have a huge problem if the Libertarians ran some normal candidates, though I've yet to see a real threat.

 

[Gunny]

That's why I said 'just to the right/left of'. I think the GOP would have a huge problem if the Libertarians ran some normal candidates, though I've yet to see a real threat.

The Republicans AND Dems keep libertarians effectively blocked. And I agree that a moderate libertarian would appeal more to conservatives than liberals.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

I understand your argument; however, I think you might be leaving a bit of reality out of it in your quest for "true" conservative idealism.

What you and others on the so-called "traditional" conservative side call "neo-cons" are here, and they aren't going away. When liberalism and the Democrats shifted left, a lot of moderate liberals/centrists were left high-n-dry. When Republicans include them in their political strategy, they win. Simple as that.

Instead of capitalizing on the fact that most "neocons" have and will vote Republican, they get just as much verbal abuse from the far-right as they do the far-left for wanting to choose their cuts of meat instead of buying the whole cow.

If Republicans don't include the moderates/centrists and try to stick to far-right principles/traditional conservatism, they'll be on the outside looking in even as the Dems have found themselves increasingly since the late 70s.

I'll also add that this "we showed them" attitude isn't cutting it with me. Republicans "showed them" by shooting themselves in the ass. It's suicidal, and "showed them" nothing. The MSM and the left have already been diligently working away to brainwash any-and-everyone that will listen that the election was all about Iraq. They'll perpeutate that lie as they have others until sooner or later, it'll be believed.

But this little inter-party "civil war" that's going on either needs to stop, or "showing them" is going to give ALL the power to the Dems. Even if you count the historical backlash that will evcentually result from it, look REAL hard at what even 8 years of Dem control can do to this Nation.

No. Let the neocons go to the dems. They have more in common over there. The neocons are american sellouts just as much as libs are. They are not here to stay. They are not wanted here.

 

[Annie]

No. Let the neocons go to the dems. They have more in common over there. The neocons are american sellouts just as much as libs are. They are not here to stay. They are not wanted here.

Here on the USMB? Here in the GOP? In either case I'd say most of the neocons are in better standing than the likes of you.

 

[Gunny]

No. Let the neocons go to the dems. They have more in common over there. The neocons are american sellouts just as much as libs are. They are not here to stay. They are not wanted here.

Really? By definition, I am a neocon. A former Democrat who bailed when the Dems emasculated themselves. The only thing that changed my being a moderate liberal to a moderate conservative is the left pulling the rug out from under me. I now fall on the right by default.

Let me clue you in on something ... "neocons" are a much larger percantage of voters than hard-line conservatives are. We are the ones that make Republicans, and as was seen last Tues, break them. So you better reign in your horses and check that hole-card.

The only thing as bad as some dumbass Dem and his socialist utopian ideology is a right wing extremist abortion clinic bombing, xenophobe who wants to install Preacher Bob as the President and the church deacons as the Congress.

 

[Annie]

Really? By definition, I am a neocon. A former Democrat who bailed when the Dems emasculated themselves. The only thing that changed my being a moderate liberal to a moderate conservative is the left pulling the rug out from under me. I now fall on the right by default.

Let me clue you in on something ... "neocons" are a much larger percantage of voters than hard-line conservatives are. We are the ones that make Republicans, and as was seen last Tues, break them. So you better reign in your horses and check that hole-card.

The only thing as bad as some dumbass Dem and his socialist utopian ideology is a right wing extremist abortion clinic bombing, xenophobe who wants to install Preacher Bob as the President and the church deacons as the Congress.

You forgot anti-semite.

 

[Gunny]

You forgot anti-semite.

Always a critic around!

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Really? By definition, I am a neocon. A former Democrat who bailed when the Dems emasculated themselves. The only thing that changed my being a moderate liberal to a moderate conservative is the left pulling the rug out from under me. I now fall on the right by default.

Let me clue you in on something ... "neocons" are a much larger percantage of voters than hard-line conservatives are. We are the ones that make Republicans, and as was seen last Tues, break them. So you better reign in your horses and check that hole-card.

The only thing as bad as some dumbass Dem and his socialist utopian ideology is a right wing extremist abortion clinic bombing, xenophobe who wants to install Preacher Bob as the President and the church deacons as the Congress.

So is it then an official neocon policy to do shit about the border, and do you support it, as a neocon? And do you buy into the delusion that empowering the Chinese totalitarian fascists will somehow make them institute human rights reforms? OR do you flat out deny there's anything wrong going on in china, like bush? And if you believe trading with China is the best way to keep the peace, why then is nobody advocating this approach with North Korea? The huge holes in the logic of neocon deception are ultimately it's downfall.