Rand Paul puts tax code in woodchipper, uses chain saw and fire to destroy it...

[thereisnospoon]

How is a tax that is more regressive more fair?

Under the current system the poor and middle class get raped by government taxes and fees. Especially in some liberal states like Oregon holy shit if you earn only $8k a year they slam you with a 9% income tax. New York, good God almighty they tax and fee and toll virtually everything possible.

Those assholes in NY tax mortgages, which are debts for crying out loud. Take out a mortgage to buy a home BAM and its not some $50 fee the last one I paid was over $1,800 and that was 12 years ago. Worse if you refinance to get a lower interest rate BAM you pay the full mortgage tax again.

Blue states either have run out or are about to run out of things to tax..
It is my understanding that out of state residents who own property, such as a vacation home in New York State are considered residents and must pay NYS income tax. And NYS also taxes the spouse of the owner as well. That's criminal. A person who neither works or lives in NY being told they must pay NYS income tax...If this is true, I will hold off on buying a vacation property

 

[thereisnospoon]

Gee! A fair tax. It sounds so.......so......FAIR!! It's so obvious. So SIMPLE!

Perfect solution for simpletons.

I'd be paying 10% less than I'm paying what's not to like, that's a boat load of money in my pocket.

OK. I am supposed to believe that 10% of YOUR taxable income is a boatload. Whatever.

You mad bro? I'm brilliant and make a lot of money, sucks to be you if you don't.

Laugher comes on here to ***** and whine.....Because he's a flaming lib.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Rand Paul s Implausible Flat Tax - Bloomberg View

Rand Paul proposed the most bizarre tax plan I ve ever seen - Vox

Rand Paul s flat tax proposal What it means for you - Jun. 18 2015

Hard to imagine how anyone could have an issue with this.

The plan that Paul described in a Wall Street Journal column Thursday would tax everyone - businesses and and individuals - at a flat 14.5% rate. Households wouldn't pay tax on income below $50,000, Paul wrote. And the payroll tax, which employers and workers both pay to fund Social Security, would go away altogether, along with most tax breaks and deductions.

Cuz the lefties view taxation as a means to "get even"....With wealthy people. And anyone else who refuses to kowtow to the lefty agenda.

 

[thereisnospoon]

How is a tax that is more regressive more fair?

Under the current system the poor and middle class get raped by government taxes and fees. Especially in some liberal states like Oregon holy shit if you earn only $8k a year they slam you with a 9% income tax. New York, good God almighty they tax and fee and toll virtually everything possible.

Those assholes in NY tax mortgages, which are debts for crying out loud. Take out a mortgage to buy a home BAM and its not some $50 fee the last one I paid was over $1,800 and that was 12 years ago. Worse if you refinance to get a lower interest rate BAM you pay the full mortgage tax again.

So now we are talking about replacing all local and state taxes with a fair tax? That is a much different argument than replacing the Federal income tax with a fair tax because state and local taxes are far more regressive than the federal income tax.

Can't do that. This would be a federal plan only.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Rand Paul s Implausible Flat Tax - Bloomberg View

Rand Paul proposed the most bizarre tax plan I ve ever seen - Vox

Rand Paul s flat tax proposal What it means for you - Jun. 18 2015

Hard to imagine how anyone could have an issue with this.

The plan that Paul described in a Wall Street Journal column Thursday would tax everyone - businesses and and individuals - at a flat 14.5% rate. Households wouldn't pay tax on income below $50,000, Paul wrote. And the payroll tax, which employers and workers both pay to fund Social Security, would go away altogether, along with most tax breaks and deductions.

The benefits go mostly to wealthy people. It reduces revenue by almost 3 trillion.

That's bullshit and will not fly.

It's fantasy.

Which benefits? $3 trillion? How so?......History has shown that when those who earn have more to spend, tax revenues increase.
Increasing taxes decreases revenue......If the feds want a tax increase they have to cut spending.

 

[thereisnospoon]

I would kill the tax code by banning tax expenditures. That's what those 17,000 pages are. Ron Paul should be honest and say that. If you don't kill tax expenditures, the flat tax and Fair Tax tax code would still be 17,000 pages long.

Kill tax expenditures. Then you don't need a flat tax or a Fair Tax. You would be able to fill your taxes out on one page, and people earning identical incomes would be paying identical income taxes.

That's great. Is everything that puts money in ones bank account considered income?

What's wrong with wanting to put some of one's income in the bank?

 

[thereisnospoon]

I would kill the tax code by banning tax expenditures. That's what those 17,000 pages are. Ron Paul should be honest and say that. If you don't kill tax expenditures, the flat tax and Fair Tax tax code would still be 17,000 pages long.

Kill tax expenditures. Then you don't need a flat tax or a Fair Tax. You would be able to fill your taxes out on one page, and people earning identical incomes would be paying identical income taxes.

That's great. Is everything that puts money in ones bank account considered income?

The biggest individual tax expenditure is the tax exemption for employer-sponsored health insurance. That benefit does not put money in your bank account, and yet it is income, and it is not taxed.

There was a gigantic groundswell of objection from the left when A GOP candidate suggested applying the value of an employer provided health insurance plan.....

 

[thereisnospoon]

The Fair Tax and Flat Tax are red herrings. Why does no one ask, "What's in those 17,000 pages?"

You know what's in there? Your mortgage interest deduction. Your child tax credit. Your tax reward for buying the right kind of refrigerator. Tell me you won't scream like a welfare queen if Rand Paul tries to burn THOSE.

17,000 pages of government behavioral modification programs. Be a good citizen and buy this refrigerator and this solar panel and this house. Mate and make new citizens.

You are all lab mice. Pavlov's dogs. Co-dependents.

In return, you get higher tax rates and $16 trillion of debt. Good boy! Good girl! pat-pat-pat-pat

Oh, but those NEGROES! They are sooooooo dependent on government gifts! Let's blame THEM for the debt and high taxes!

It is true that the most coveted tax break is the mortgage interest deduction....However, under the latest Obama tax plan several tax credits are going away in 2016..
The tax credit for installing any type of solar energy source is gone......Many other deductions for energy saving items are also cancelled.
Backwards thinking....
Tax credits DO NOT create deficits. Politicians who spend too much, especially on pork and other nonsense create deficits. Too many over paid over stuffed non essential federal employees create deficits.......
BTW, social spending accounts for 55% of federal spending. Lots of that is spent on administration of said programs.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Hard to imagine how anyone could have an issue with this.

The plan that Paul described in a Wall Street Journal column Thursday would tax everyone - businesses and and individuals - at a flat 14.5% rate. Households wouldn't pay tax on income below $50,000, Paul wrote. And the payroll tax, which employers and workers both pay to fund Social Security, would go away altogether, along with most tax breaks and deductions.

The benefits go mostly to wealthy people.

Which anyone with a basic concept of mathematics could understand why

It reduces revenue by almost 3 trillion.

No, it actually doesn't.

Please. Find another playmate. You bore me. Always have. You aren't even enjoyable to **** with.

Then leave...Because your only purpose here is to **** with people....You must be an absolute ******* joy as a neighbor.

 

[thereisnospoon]

How is a tax that is more regressive more fair?

Under the current system the poor and middle class get raped by government taxes and fees. Especially in some liberal states like Oregon holy shit if you earn only $8k a year they slam you with a 9% income tax. New York, good God almighty they tax and fee and toll virtually everything possible.

Those assholes in NY tax mortgages, which are debts for crying out loud. Take out a mortgage to buy a home BAM and its not some $50 fee the last one I paid was over $1,800 and that was 12 years ago. Worse if you refinance to get a lower interest rate BAM you pay the full mortgage tax again.

So now we are talking about replacing all local and state taxes with a fair tax? That is a much different argument than replacing the Federal income tax with a fair tax because state and local taxes are far more regressive than the federal income tax.

Well politicians and government federal, state, and local have become corrupted beyond belief. Short of re-writing state and federal constitutions to root out this corruption one way to attack the problem would be to take away their tool for corruption, taxation loopholes and favors.

Here's a good example of local corruption. It used to be that in my school district a certain minimum percentage of registered voters had to vote to approve in increase in the school tax levy and the levy was on the same ballot as other measures and elections. Historically this kept costs in check, the school district didn't ask for ridiculous increases.

Then they (government) corrupted this process by doing away with the minimum rule. Then they further gamed the process by holding a special oddball school tax levy increase votes that were not part of the normal elections and measures. Why? Because they could count on lower voter turn out to game the system. Then they started asking for pie in the sky high school tax levy increases, lying about what they planned to do with the money, and slipping these past voters. They no sooner got one huge increase passed and they came right back asking for another, even though the district lost 500 students since the previous levy.

Honestly there is so much corruption in government anymore that I want to just back away from politics. Politicians are bankrupting us with their borrowing, spending, and idiotic policies, nothing changes no matter which party is in power. I think we are going to go the way of Rome and other historic country/empire melt downs that have occurred throughout history. Maybe its just human nature.

In some states, one being New Jersey, the entire funding system became so corrupt and so expensive, that NJ homeowners pay the highest average tax bills in the nation....Couple that with highly inflated home prices( for example a 1500 SF split level home built in the 1960's can go for a half million dollars) and people are shelling out over $1000 PER MONTH in property taxes....It go so bad that a democrat governor had to step in and do the ( for a liberal) unthinkable, propose an annual tax levy cap....At one point it was 4%. It has been lowered to 2%....And even though NJ is a "home rule" state, municipalities are barred from asking voters to pass special tax increases.....It's too late for NJ...The state is losing jobs. Large companies that made NJ home for decades are leaving for more tax and business friendly states..NJ had in the mid 2000's lost over $70 billion in wealth....That trend continues. The number one reason why the exodus from NJ....Taxes....

 

[OnePercenter]

Yeah.....and he also pointed out no tax on income under 50,000 dollars.......which covers that....

People that make under $50,000 don't use tax based services?

 

[OnePercenter]

I can understand how everyone being treated equal disturbs you. You would rather keep a system that has proven time and time again to favor the rich who support big Government that they can buy with money.

EVERY tax law and rule that favor the rich has come from Republicans. Want to make it fair? Vote them out.

 

[OnePercenter]

It is just amazing to me that those who ***** about the rich, and corrupt politicians, and the poor getting screwed......want to keep giving money to the same politicians who apparently are the ones doing the very things they are bitching about.....and the thing to keep in mind...in almost all Flat tax plans you have a beginning point where no tax is paid at all......usually between 40-50,000 dollars, meaning...they would pay no federal tax......

the libs aren't mad about how much the rich pay....they hate how much they keep.....

EVERY middle class worker should be mad that the wealthy pay less percentage of their income to federal tax than they do. The reason they do........Republicans.

 

[BluesLegend]

How is a tax that is more regressive more fair?

Under the current system the poor and middle class get raped by government taxes and fees. Especially in some liberal states like Oregon holy shit if you earn only $8k a year they slam you with a 9% income tax. New York, good God almighty they tax and fee and toll virtually everything possible.

Those assholes in NY tax mortgages, which are debts for crying out loud. Take out a mortgage to buy a home BAM and its not some $50 fee the last one I paid was over $1,800 and that was 12 years ago. Worse if you refinance to get a lower interest rate BAM you pay the full mortgage tax again.

So now we are talking about replacing all local and state taxes with a fair tax? That is a much different argument than replacing the Federal income tax with a fair tax because state and local taxes are far more regressive than the federal income tax.

Well politicians and government federal, state, and local have become corrupted beyond belief. Short of re-writing state and federal constitutions to root out this corruption one way to attack the problem would be to take away their tool for corruption, taxation loopholes and favors.

Here's a good example of local corruption. It used to be that in my school district a certain minimum percentage of registered voters had to vote to approve in increase in the school tax levy and the levy was on the same ballot as other measures and elections. Historically this kept costs in check, the school district didn't ask for ridiculous increases.

Then they (government) corrupted this process by doing away with the minimum rule. Then they further gamed the process by holding a special oddball school tax levy increase votes that were not part of the normal elections and measures. Why? Because they could count on lower voter turn out to game the system. Then they started asking for pie in the sky high school tax levy increases, lying about what they planned to do with the money, and slipping these past voters. They no sooner got one huge increase passed and they came right back asking for another, even though the district lost 500 students since the previous levy.

Honestly there is so much corruption in government anymore that I want to just back away from politics. Politicians are bankrupting us with their borrowing, spending, and idiotic policies, nothing changes no matter which party is in power. I think we are going to go the way of Rome and other historic country/empire melt downs that have occurred throughout history. Maybe its just human nature.

In some states, one being New Jersey, the entire funding system became so corrupt and so expensive, that NJ homeowners pay the highest average tax bills in the nation....Couple that with highly inflated home prices( for example a 1500 SF split level home built in the 1960's can go for a half million dollars) and people are shelling out over $1000 PER MONTH in property taxes....It go so bad that a democrat governor had to step in and do the ( for a liberal) unthinkable, propose an annual tax levy cap....At one point it was 4%. It has been lowered to 2%....And even though NJ is a "home rule" state, municipalities are barred from asking voters to pass special tax increases.....It's too late for NJ...The state is losing jobs. Large companies that made NJ home for decades are leaving for more tax and business friendly states..NJ had in the mid 2000's lost over $70 billion in wealth....That trend continues. The number one reason why the exodus from NJ....Taxes....

I know the NJ situation from personal experience, I fled Cape May and NJ due to the taxes which sucks because I really loved the shore. Just north in Atlantic County the property taxes got so horrendous half the damn county was trying to sell their house and get out. They literally were paying $10k to $14k a year in property taxes. I mean taxpayers were paying teachers to teach a class size of 3 students, the teachers union refusing to consolidate schools and districts. Its pretty mess up. Guess who owned a lot of the beach houses along the shore and drove around in a Benz, yes teachers shocker.

 

[OnePercenter]

Blue states either have run out or are about to run out of things to tax..
It is my understanding that out of state residents who own property, such as a vacation home in New York State are considered residents and must pay NYS income tax. And NYS also taxes the spouse of the owner as well. That's criminal. A person who neither works or lives in NY being told they must pay NYS income tax...If this is true, I will hold off on buying a vacation property

Only if you spend more than 184 days per tax year in New York, or have income (a job) in New York.

The trick is to establish a corporation, then quitclaim to the corporation and you can live their forever and not pay income tax as long as you don't have a job in NY.

 

[Bombur]

How is a tax that is more regressive more fair?

Under the current system the poor and middle class get raped by government taxes and fees. Especially in some liberal states like Oregon holy shit if you earn only $8k a year they slam you with a 9% income tax. New York, good God almighty they tax and fee and toll virtually everything possible.

Those assholes in NY tax mortgages, which are debts for crying out loud. Take out a mortgage to buy a home BAM and its not some $50 fee the last one I paid was over $1,800 and that was 12 years ago. Worse if you refinance to get a lower interest rate BAM you pay the full mortgage tax again.

So now we are talking about replacing all local and state taxes with a fair tax? That is a much different argument than replacing the Federal income tax with a fair tax because state and local taxes are far more regressive than the federal income tax.

Well politicians and government federal, state, and local have become corrupted beyond belief. Short of re-writing state and federal constitutions to root out this corruption one way to attack the problem would be to take away their tool for corruption, taxation loopholes and favors.

Here's a good example of local corruption. It used to be that in my school district a certain minimum percentage of registered voters had to vote to approve in increase in the school tax levy and the levy was on the same ballot as other measures and elections. Historically this kept costs in check, the school district didn't ask for ridiculous increases.

Then they (government) corrupted this process by doing away with the minimum rule. Then they further gamed the process by holding a special oddball school tax levy increase votes that were not part of the normal elections and measures. Why? Because they could count on lower voter turn out to game the system. Then they started asking for pie in the sky high school tax levy increases, lying about what they planned to do with the money, and slipping these past voters. They no sooner got one huge increase passed and they came right back asking for another, even though the district lost 500 students since the previous levy.

Honestly there is so much corruption in government anymore that I want to just back away from politics. Politicians are bankrupting us with their borrowing, spending, and idiotic policies, nothing changes no matter which party is in power. I think we are going to go the way of Rome and other historic country/empire melt downs that have occurred throughout history. Maybe its just human nature.

It is weird you complained about corruption then described voter apathy. Most people ignore state and local governments.

A "fair" tax has winners and losers just like any other tax and if you hear anyone pushing for it at the federal level it is a fair sign that they would benefit from it. The tax is more regressive than the income tax some people want it to replace. So you do the math.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

No. It's because you are convinced that you do....and you aren't interesting. You support an income tax system that has never been proven to work....ever. It's bullshit....but it sure sounds fair!

Almost 50 countries currently have a flat tax, including several of the former Eastern Bloc Communist nations who've had first hand experience in what doesn't work.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

"Rand Paul puts tax code in woodchipper, uses chain saw and fire to destroy it..."

Demonstrating the fact that Paul is naïve, sophomoric, and incapable of understanding what constitutes sound, responsible governance – rendering him unqualified to be president.

So please enlighten us, oh exultant one, as to what constitutes sound, responsible governance