Palestinian Peace Proposal

[Phoenall]

P F Tinmore, et al,

The category of defensive" cannot be justified is the State supports armed conflict against a member nation, or supports jihadist action. Nor can defensive be considered a justification when the military wing is of the state is a designated terrorist organization.

But importing defensive weapons is OK, right?

(COMMENT)

You cannot declare a Chapter VII, Article 51, defense when the state is firing rockets and mortars across its borders (into another member nations sovereignty) and making armed incursions into another sovereignty to commit acts of war, kidnaping and murder in violation of international customary law or in violation of humanitarian law.

Most Respectfully,
R

All third grade name calling aside, there is no border between Gaza and Israel. They are the same place.

Correct as the Lon granted the land to Isreal in 1923, and spelt out the borders of the National Home of the Jews. These included gaza, Golan heights and the whole of the west bank. The arab muslims claim that these borders were those of the nation of Palestine and fail to produce any evidence to substantiate their claims

The LoN never annexed that territory (or any territory) so it was not theirs to give away.

They did not need to as it was part of war booty and was signed over to them by the Ottomans. And it was theirs to give away unless you want to tell the rest of the former Ottoman lands that they are illegal.

 

[Phoenall]

P F Tinmore, et al,

I think you will notice that the UN has already decided that the Resolution was implemented; maybe not to your satisfaction, but it was implemented and used as a reference up to and through the last status change for the State of Palestine.

Do you have anything to prove otherwise?

(COMMENT)

AGAIN --- very plain and simple.

During today's brief meeting, Dr. Eduardo Morgan (Panama) said that this resolution of the Assembly merely "relieves responsibility. The Commission has not been dissolved. In fact the resolution of last November 29 has been implemented." - See more at: Palestine question - Palestine Commission adjourns sine die - Press release 17 May 1948

You are clearly spreading misinformation every time you say this. "That has never happened."

Recalling its resolutions of 29 November 1947 3/ and 11 December 1948 4/ and taking note of the declarations and explanations made by the representative of the Government of Israel 5/ before the ad hoc Political Committee in respect of the implementation of the said resolutions, SOURCE: A/RES/273 (III) 11 May 1949

Now it is my turn.

Do you have anything from the UN that says after 4 December 2012 that says otherwise?

Most Respectfully,
R

I don't see a Jewish state and an Arab state on the proposed borders. I don't see an international city of Jerusalem.

So what makes you think that resolution 181 was implemented besides some political blabber out of the UN?

Now can we get back to my question that you have been ducking?

Because the UN who are the only people who could actually say it was implemented said it was implemented. You are not inany position to state that the UN did not have the authority to implement 181 under the terms of 181. It was an either/or term of reference so even though the arab muslims rejected 181 it did not matter as the Jews accepted it and it was implemented

 

[Phoenall]

P F Tinmore, et al,

I think you will notice that the UN has already decided that the Resolution was implemented; maybe not to your satisfaction, but it was implemented and used as a reference up to and through the last status change for the State of Palestine.

Do you have anything to prove otherwise?

(COMMENT)

AGAIN --- very plain and simple.

During today's brief meeting, Dr. Eduardo Morgan (Panama) said that this resolution of the Assembly merely "relieves responsibility. The Commission has not been dissolved. In fact the resolution of last November 29 has been implemented." - See more at: Palestine question - Palestine Commission adjourns sine die - Press release 17 May 1948

You are clearly spreading misinformation every time you say this. "That has never happened."

Recalling its resolutions of 29 November 1947 3/ and 11 December 1948 4/ and taking note of the declarations and explanations made by the representative of the Government of Israel 5/ before the ad hoc Political Committee in respect of the implementation of the said resolutions, SOURCE: A/RES/273 (III) 11 May 1949

Now it is my turn.

Do you have anything from the UN that says after 4 December 2012 that says otherwise?

Most Respectfully,
R

I don't see a Jewish state and an Arab state on the proposed borders. I don't see an international city of Jerusalem.

So what makes you think that resolution 181 was implemented besides some political blabber out of the UN?

Now can we get back to my question that you have been ducking?

The arab muslims rejected 181 and went to war instead, stealing Jerusalem and annexing the arab muslim proposed lands

 

[Phoenall]

P F Tinmore, et al,

first off, the League of Nations did not have to annex any territory. It was unconditionally surrender by the Ottoman Empire. But that is only relevant to your claim that you KNOW for a fact that the territory had to be annexed before disposition is made. You actually cannot find any international that requires that.

The LoN never annexed that territory (or any territory) so it was not theirs to give away.

(COMMENT)

Sovereignty and independence can be acquired a couple of different ways. The most common are by the "right of self-determination" and the other it by "Treaty;" as we discussed in Posting #141 - nearly a 100 responses back. Remember, we talked about Jordan and the Treaty that gave the Emir sovereign status; and Israel that through the avenue afforded it by the "Step Preparatory to Independence" --- Declared Independence. See Postings #123 Examples of Israel/Jordan --- and --- Posting #120 The Unconditional Surrender/the Westphalia System Peace of Westphalia (composed of the: Treaty of Münster --- and --- Treaty of Osnabrück)/and the Application.

Whether or no you believe this make-believe International Law that requires annexation, or not, is irrelevant to the conditions that formed Israel. Because they were not awarded their territory by the Mandatory or League --- they declared independence.

Your argument is not of any value here. In the first half of the 20th Century, the Council/Assembly was still using protocols that originated with the the concepts that forged the fundamentals of the Westphalia Treaties. We were not following the demands of the population --- formerly under the Occupied Enemy Territory Administration (OETA)(in league with the Central Powers of WWI and the Axis Powers of WWII).

Most Respectfully,
R

Israel declared independence from whom?

With whom did Israel fight its war of independence?

They declared independence under the terms of the Mandate for Palestine and the UN partition plan. Just as Syria, Iraq, Lebanon and Jordan declared independence under the Mandate system, who did they declare independence from

The combined armies of the arab league including Palestinian arab muslim militia and terrorists

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore,

Quit being a wise ass.

Now can we get back to my question that you have been ducking?

(COMMENT)

What is your question?

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore,

Quit being a wise ass.

Now can we get back to my question that you have been ducking?

(COMMENT)

What is your question?

Most Respectfully,
R

In the case of "Hamas attacks in Palestine;" this is a variation on the Palestinian Theme that "Palestine exists from the river to the sea."​

Do you have anything to prove otherwise?

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

State that declare independence are declaring a change in their status. They are changing status from a "non-self-governing" entity to a "self-governing entity."

Israel declared independence from whom?

With whom did Israel fight its war of independence?

(COMMENT)

Actually, the War of Independence was a "complex war."

• After the Declaration of Independence, the "Civil War" spilled-over into the War of Independence between Israeli Forces and the combined indigenous irregular forces (Holy War Army and Arab Army of Liberation).

• Upon Declaring Independence, a Coalition of Arab Forces attacked. The primary force elements came from the Arab League provided by Egypt, Jordan, Syria and Lebanon with additional forces from Iraq and Saudi Arabia. The Irregular Force from Egypt (Muslim Brotherhood) and volunteers from Yemen, Pakistan and Sudan joined in the assault.

There was an Armistice put in place in 1949. The war ended with Egypt and Jordan. However the war is not yet been concluded between Syria, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Pakistan and Sudan. The Muslim Brotherhood and the HAMAS are related and it appears that the war is not concluded with them.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

OK, one more time.

The State of Palestine is defined as:

Affirms its determination to contribute to the achievement of the inalienable rights of the Palestinian people and the attainment of a peaceful settlement in the Middle East that ends the occupation that began in 1967 and fulfills the vision of two States: an independent, sovereign, democratic, contiguous and viable State of Palestine living side by side in peace and security with Israel on the basis of the pre-1967 borders;
SOURCE: A/RES/67/19 4 DECEMBER 2012

P F Tinmore,

Quit being a wise ass.

Now can we get back to my question that you have been ducking?

(COMMENT)

What is your question?

Most Respectfully,
R

In the case of "Hamas attacks in Palestine;" this is a variation on the Palestinian Theme that "Palestine exists from the river to the sea."​

Do you have anything to prove otherwise?

(COMMENT)

In the context (the proper context in which this statement was made) the inference being made by the Palestinians is that the "Palestine" as surrendered by the Ottoman Empire to the Allied Powers --- a lesser included, arbitrary geographic area, as determined by the Allied Powers, was somehow:

1. Palestine from the river to the sea, and from north to south, is a land of the Palestinian people and its homeland and its legitimate right, we may not a waiver an inch or any part thereof, no matter what the reasons and circumstances and pressures.

2. Palestine - all of Palestine - is a land of Islamic and Arab affiliation, a blessed sacred land, that has a major portion in the heart of every Arab and Muslim

3. No recognition of the legitimacy of the occupation whatever; this is a principled position, political and moral, and therefore do not recognize the legitimacy of the Israeli occupation of Palestine, and recognition of "Israel" and the legitimacy of its presence on any part of Palestine no matter how long; and it will not be long, God willing.​

There is no formal agreement, convention, resolution or treaty that stipulates or substantiates these claims made by the former enemy aligned Arab elements of WWI (Central Powers), WWII (Axis Powers), or the regional security threat by the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) aligned with the Palestinian Arab Irregular Force (PAIF) (Holy War Army or the Arab Liberation Army) that allocates sovereignty to the HoAP/PAIF of any surrendered territory.

There is a bit of an absurdity here in the HoAP claim.

The outcome was the Partition Plan. The General Assembly adopted a Plan in 1947 which culminated in the Civil War between the Palestinian Arab Irregular Force (PAIF) and Jewish Community Forces/Israel Defense Forces (IDF):

• PAIF: in the 1947-48 led by Abd al-Qadir al-Husayni [killed in operations (April '48) before Israeli Independence] and Hasan Salama. Salama a former member of the Waffen SS and leader in WWII Operations jointly operated by Sicherheitsdienst (SS/SD) and Grand Mufti al-Husseini. It should be noted here that a VERY IMPORTANT aspect of the conflict was encapsulated in the fact that was already known to the Security Forces of the Mandatory and the Jewish Haganah. In addition to his WWII duties for the SS [establishing and supporting the communication and intelligence facilities for the Abwehr (German military intelligence), recruiting and arming anti-British Palestinians] Hasan Salama was tasked with general harassment of the British Mandatory.
• SIDE NOTES:
  • In June 1948 in the early stages of the War for Independence, Hasan Salama was killed after a disastrous engagement with the Haganah in the Battle for Ras el-Ein.
  • Hasan Salama was the father to Ali Hasan Salama, principle planner for the 1972 Olympic Massacre by Black September.

When looking at this from a very practical standpoint, the Allied Powers do not normally bow to the demands made by non-aligned forces that fought on the side of enemy; especially the Axis Powers. Palestine, from the time the Occupied Enemy Territory Administration (OETA - 1918) was established --- until --- the termination of the British Mandate (1948), was defined under the Palestine Order in Council as those "territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applies, hereinafter described as Palestine."

The HoAP/PAIF have nothing comparable to this documentary evidence. And in practice, the HoAP/PAIF have no historical past, for more than a thousand years, that they had sovereign control over any of the territory they claim.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[montelatici]

P F Tinmore, et al,

OK, one more time.

The State of Palestine is defined as:

Affirms its determination to contribute to the achievement of the inalienable rights of the Palestinian people and the attainment of a peaceful settlement in the Middle East that ends the occupation that began in 1967 and fulfills the vision of two States: an independent, sovereign, democratic, contiguous and viable State of Palestine living side by side in peace and security with Israel on the basis of the pre-1967 borders;
SOURCE: A/RES/67/19 4 DECEMBER 2012

P F Tinmore,

Quit being a wise ass.

Now can we get back to my question that you have been ducking?

(COMMENT)

What is your question?

Most Respectfully,
R

In the case of "Hamas attacks in Palestine;" this is a variation on the Palestinian Theme that "Palestine exists from the river to the sea."​

Do you have anything to prove otherwise?

(COMMENT)

In the context (the proper context in which this statement was made) the inference being made by the Palestinians is that the "Palestine" as surrendered by the Ottoman Empire to the Allied Powers --- a lesser included, arbitrary geographic area, as determined by the Allied Powers, was somehow:

1. Palestine from the river to the sea, and from north to south, is a land of the Palestinian people and its homeland and its legitimate right, we may not a waiver an inch or any part thereof, no matter what the reasons and circumstances and pressures.

2. Palestine - all of Palestine - is a land of Islamic and Arab affiliation, a blessed sacred land, that has a major portion in the heart of every Arab and Muslim

3. No recognition of the legitimacy of the occupation whatever; this is a principled position, political and moral, and therefore do not recognize the legitimacy of the Israeli occupation of Palestine, and recognition of "Israel" and the legitimacy of its presence on any part of Palestine no matter how long; and it will not be long, God willing.​

There is no formal agreement, convention, resolution or treaty that stipulates or substantiates these claims made by the former enemy aligned Arab elements of WWI (Central Powers), WWII (Axis Powers), or the regional security threat by the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) aligned with the Palestinian Arab Irregular Force (PAIF) (Holy War Army or the Arab Liberation Army) that allocates sovereignty to the HoAP/PAIF of any surrendered territory.

There is a bit of an absurdity here in the HoAP claim.

The outcome was the Partition Plan. The General Assembly adopted a Plan in 1947 which culminated in the Civil War between the Palestinian Arab Irregular Force (PAIF) and Jewish Community Forces/Israel Defense Forces (IDF):

• PAIF: in the 1947-48 led by Abd al-Qadir al-Husayni [killed in operations (April '48) before Israeli Independence] and Hasan Salama. Salama a former member of the Waffen SS and leader in WWII Operations jointly operated by Sicherheitsdienst (SS/SD) and Grand Mufti al-Husseini. It should be noted here that a VERY IMPORTANT aspect of the conflict was encapsulated in the fact that was already known to the Security Forces of the Mandatory and the Jewish Haganah. In addition to his WWII duties for the SS [establishing and supporting the communication and intelligence facilities for the Abwehr (German military intelligence), recruiting and arming anti-British Palestinians] Hasan Salama was tasked with general harassment of the British Mandatory.
• SIDE NOTES:
  • In June 1948 in the early stages of the War for Independence, Hasan Salama was killed after a disastrous engagement with the Haganah in the Battle for Ras el-Ein.
  • Hasan Salama was the father to Ali Hasan Salama, principle planner for the 1972 Olympic Massacre by Black September.

When looking at this from a very practical standpoint, the Allied Powers do not normally bow to the demands made by non-aligned forces that fought on the side of enemy; especially the Axis Powers. Palestine, from the time the Occupied Enemy Territory Administration (OETA - 1918) was established --- until --- the termination of the British Mandate (1948), was defined under the Palestine Order in Council as those "territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applies, hereinafter described as Palestine."

The HoAP/PAIF have nothing comparable to this documentary evidence. And in practice, the HoAP/PAIF have no historical past, for more than a thousand years, that they had sovereign control over any of the territory they claim.

Most Respectfully,
R

When did the European colonists have sovereign control over any of the territory they claimed, prior to partition?

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

State that declare independence are declaring a change in their status. They are changing status from a "non-self-governing" entity to a "self-governing entity."

Israel declared independence from whom?

With whom did Israel fight its war of independence?

(COMMENT)

Actually, the War of Independence was a "complex war."

• After the Declaration of Independence, the "Civil War" spilled-over into the War of Independence between Israeli Forces and the combined indigenous irregular forces (Holy War Army and Arab Army of Liberation).

• Upon Declaring Independence, a Coalition of Arab Forces attacked. The primary force elements came from the Arab League provided by Egypt, Jordan, Syria and Lebanon with additional forces from Iraq and Saudi Arabia. The Irregular Force from Egypt (Muslim Brotherhood) and volunteers from Yemen, Pakistan and Sudan joined in the assault.

There was an Armistice put in place in 1949. The war ended with Egypt and Jordan. However the war is not yet been concluded between Syria, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Pakistan and Sudan. The Muslim Brotherhood and the HAMAS are related and it appears that the war is not concluded with them.

Most Respectfully,
R

There is much confusion over the creation of Israel. I think it is all by design. There are many loose ends that people dance around without presenting anything conclusive.

One point that sticks out for me is Israel claiming to win land in wars that it experienced no victories.

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

OK, one more time.

The State of Palestine is defined as:

Affirms its determination to contribute to the achievement of the inalienable rights of the Palestinian people and the attainment of a peaceful settlement in the Middle East that ends the occupation that began in 1967 and fulfills the vision of two States: an independent, sovereign, democratic, contiguous and viable State of Palestine living side by side in peace and security with Israel on the basis of the pre-1967 borders;
SOURCE: A/RES/67/19 4 DECEMBER 2012

P F Tinmore,

Quit being a wise ass.

Now can we get back to my question that you have been ducking?

(COMMENT)

What is your question?

Most Respectfully,
R

In the case of "Hamas attacks in Palestine;" this is a variation on the Palestinian Theme that "Palestine exists from the river to the sea."​

Do you have anything to prove otherwise?

(COMMENT)

In the context (the proper context in which this statement was made) the inference being made by the Palestinians is that the "Palestine" as surrendered by the Ottoman Empire to the Allied Powers --- a lesser included, arbitrary geographic area, as determined by the Allied Powers, was somehow:

1. Palestine from the river to the sea, and from north to south, is a land of the Palestinian people and its homeland and its legitimate right, we may not a waiver an inch or any part thereof, no matter what the reasons and circumstances and pressures.

2. Palestine - all of Palestine - is a land of Islamic and Arab affiliation, a blessed sacred land, that has a major portion in the heart of every Arab and Muslim

3. No recognition of the legitimacy of the occupation whatever; this is a principled position, political and moral, and therefore do not recognize the legitimacy of the Israeli occupation of Palestine, and recognition of "Israel" and the legitimacy of its presence on any part of Palestine no matter how long; and it will not be long, God willing.​

There is no formal agreement, convention, resolution or treaty that stipulates or substantiates these claims made by the former enemy aligned Arab elements of WWI (Central Powers), WWII (Axis Powers), or the regional security threat by the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) aligned with the Palestinian Arab Irregular Force (PAIF) (Holy War Army or the Arab Liberation Army) that allocates sovereignty to the HoAP/PAIF of any surrendered territory.

There is a bit of an absurdity here in the HoAP claim.

The outcome was the Partition Plan. The General Assembly adopted a Plan in 1947 which culminated in the Civil War between the Palestinian Arab Irregular Force (PAIF) and Jewish Community Forces/Israel Defense Forces (IDF):

• PAIF: in the 1947-48 led by Abd al-Qadir al-Husayni [killed in operations (April '48) before Israeli Independence] and Hasan Salama. Salama a former member of the Waffen SS and leader in WWII Operations jointly operated by Sicherheitsdienst (SS/SD) and Grand Mufti al-Husseini. It should be noted here that a VERY IMPORTANT aspect of the conflict was encapsulated in the fact that was already known to the Security Forces of the Mandatory and the Jewish Haganah. In addition to his WWII duties for the SS [establishing and supporting the communication and intelligence facilities for the Abwehr (German military intelligence), recruiting and arming anti-British Palestinians] Hasan Salama was tasked with general harassment of the British Mandatory.
• SIDE NOTES:
  • In June 1948 in the early stages of the War for Independence, Hasan Salama was killed after a disastrous engagement with the Haganah in the Battle for Ras el-Ein.
  • Hasan Salama was the father to Ali Hasan Salama, principle planner for the 1972 Olympic Massacre by Black September.

When looking at this from a very practical standpoint, the Allied Powers do not normally bow to the demands made by non-aligned forces that fought on the side of enemy; especially the Axis Powers. Palestine, from the time the Occupied Enemy Territory Administration (OETA - 1918) was established --- until --- the termination of the British Mandate (1948), was defined under the Palestine Order in Council as those "territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applies, hereinafter described as Palestine."

The HoAP/PAIF have nothing comparable to this documentary evidence. And in practice, the HoAP/PAIF have no historical past, for more than a thousand years, that they had sovereign control over any of the territory they claim.

Most Respectfully,
R

1. Palestine from the river to the sea, and from north to south, is a land of the Palestinian people and its homeland and its legitimate right, we may not a waiver an inch or any part thereof, no matter what the reasons and circumstances and pressures.

2. Palestine - all of Palestine - is a land of Islamic and Arab affiliation, a blessed sacred land, that has a major portion in the heart of every Arab and Muslim

3. No recognition of the legitimacy of the occupation whatever; this is a principled position, political and moral, and therefore do not recognize the legitimacy of the Israeli occupation of Palestine, and recognition of "Israel" and the legitimacy of its presence on any part of Palestine no matter how long; and it will not be long, God willing.​

You are still not showing proof that this is not true.

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

OK, one more time.

The State of Palestine is defined as:

Affirms its determination to contribute to the achievement of the inalienable rights of the Palestinian people and the attainment of a peaceful settlement in the Middle East that ends the occupation that began in 1967 and fulfills the vision of two States: an independent, sovereign, democratic, contiguous and viable State of Palestine living side by side in peace and security with Israel on the basis of the pre-1967 borders;
SOURCE: A/RES/67/19 4 DECEMBER 2012

P F Tinmore,

Quit being a wise ass.

Now can we get back to my question that you have been ducking?

(COMMENT)

What is your question?

Most Respectfully,
R

In the case of "Hamas attacks in Palestine;" this is a variation on the Palestinian Theme that "Palestine exists from the river to the sea."​

Do you have anything to prove otherwise?

(COMMENT)

In the context (the proper context in which this statement was made) the inference being made by the Palestinians is that the "Palestine" as surrendered by the Ottoman Empire to the Allied Powers --- a lesser included, arbitrary geographic area, as determined by the Allied Powers, was somehow:

1. Palestine from the river to the sea, and from north to south, is a land of the Palestinian people and its homeland and its legitimate right, we may not a waiver an inch or any part thereof, no matter what the reasons and circumstances and pressures.

2. Palestine - all of Palestine - is a land of Islamic and Arab affiliation, a blessed sacred land, that has a major portion in the heart of every Arab and Muslim

3. No recognition of the legitimacy of the occupation whatever; this is a principled position, political and moral, and therefore do not recognize the legitimacy of the Israeli occupation of Palestine, and recognition of "Israel" and the legitimacy of its presence on any part of Palestine no matter how long; and it will not be long, God willing.​

There is no formal agreement, convention, resolution or treaty that stipulates or substantiates these claims made by the former enemy aligned Arab elements of WWI (Central Powers), WWII (Axis Powers), or the regional security threat by the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) aligned with the Palestinian Arab Irregular Force (PAIF) (Holy War Army or the Arab Liberation Army) that allocates sovereignty to the HoAP/PAIF of any surrendered territory.

There is a bit of an absurdity here in the HoAP claim.

The outcome was the Partition Plan. The General Assembly adopted a Plan in 1947 which culminated in the Civil War between the Palestinian Arab Irregular Force (PAIF) and Jewish Community Forces/Israel Defense Forces (IDF):

• PAIF: in the 1947-48 led by Abd al-Qadir al-Husayni [killed in operations (April '48) before Israeli Independence] and Hasan Salama. Salama a former member of the Waffen SS and leader in WWII Operations jointly operated by Sicherheitsdienst (SS/SD) and Grand Mufti al-Husseini. It should be noted here that a VERY IMPORTANT aspect of the conflict was encapsulated in the fact that was already known to the Security Forces of the Mandatory and the Jewish Haganah. In addition to his WWII duties for the SS [establishing and supporting the communication and intelligence facilities for the Abwehr (German military intelligence), recruiting and arming anti-British Palestinians] Hasan Salama was tasked with general harassment of the British Mandatory.
• SIDE NOTES:
  • In June 1948 in the early stages of the War for Independence, Hasan Salama was killed after a disastrous engagement with the Haganah in the Battle for Ras el-Ein.
  • Hasan Salama was the father to Ali Hasan Salama, principle planner for the 1972 Olympic Massacre by Black September.

When looking at this from a very practical standpoint, the Allied Powers do not normally bow to the demands made by non-aligned forces that fought on the side of enemy; especially the Axis Powers. Palestine, from the time the Occupied Enemy Territory Administration (OETA - 1918) was established --- until --- the termination of the British Mandate (1948), was defined under the Palestine Order in Council as those "territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applies, hereinafter described as Palestine."

The HoAP/PAIF have nothing comparable to this documentary evidence. And in practice, the HoAP/PAIF have no historical past, for more than a thousand years, that they had sovereign control over any of the territory they claim.

Most Respectfully,
R

Affirms its determination​

to contribute to the achievement of the inalienable rights of the Palestinian people and the attainment of a peaceful settlement in the Middle East that ends the occupation that began in 1967 and fulfills the vision of two States: an independent, sovereign, democratic, contiguous and viable State of Palestine living side by side in peace and security with Israel on the basis of the pre-1967 borders;​

A lot of wishful thinking but nothing you can hang your hat on.

 

[MJB12741]

P F Tinmore, et al,

OK, one more time.

The State of Palestine is defined as:

Affirms its determination to contribute to the achievement of the inalienable rights of the Palestinian people and the attainment of a peaceful settlement in the Middle East that ends the occupation that began in 1967 and fulfills the vision of two States: an independent, sovereign, democratic, contiguous and viable State of Palestine living side by side in peace and security with Israel on the basis of the pre-1967 borders;
SOURCE: A/RES/67/19 4 DECEMBER 2012

P F Tinmore,

Quit being a wise ass.

Now can we get back to my question that you have been ducking?

(COMMENT)

What is your question?

Most Respectfully,
R

In the case of "Hamas attacks in Palestine;" this is a variation on the Palestinian Theme that "Palestine exists from the river to the sea."​

Do you have anything to prove otherwise?

(COMMENT)

In the context (the proper context in which this statement was made) the inference being made by the Palestinians is that the "Palestine" as surrendered by the Ottoman Empire to the Allied Powers --- a lesser included, arbitrary geographic area, as determined by the Allied Powers, was somehow:

1. Palestine from the river to the sea, and from north to south, is a land of the Palestinian people and its homeland and its legitimate right, we may not a waiver an inch or any part thereof, no matter what the reasons and circumstances and pressures.

2. Palestine - all of Palestine - is a land of Islamic and Arab affiliation, a blessed sacred land, that has a major portion in the heart of every Arab and Muslim

3. No recognition of the legitimacy of the occupation whatever; this is a principled position, political and moral, and therefore do not recognize the legitimacy of the Israeli occupation of Palestine, and recognition of "Israel" and the legitimacy of its presence on any part of Palestine no matter how long; and it will not be long, God willing.​

There is no formal agreement, convention, resolution or treaty that stipulates or substantiates these claims made by the former enemy aligned Arab elements of WWI (Central Powers), WWII (Axis Powers), or the regional security threat by the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) aligned with the Palestinian Arab Irregular Force (PAIF) (Holy War Army or the Arab Liberation Army) that allocates sovereignty to the HoAP/PAIF of any surrendered territory.

There is a bit of an absurdity here in the HoAP claim.

The outcome was the Partition Plan. The General Assembly adopted a Plan in 1947 which culminated in the Civil War between the Palestinian Arab Irregular Force (PAIF) and Jewish Community Forces/Israel Defense Forces (IDF):

• PAIF: in the 1947-48 led by Abd al-Qadir al-Husayni [killed in operations (April '48) before Israeli Independence] and Hasan Salama. Salama a former member of the Waffen SS and leader in WWII Operations jointly operated by Sicherheitsdienst (SS/SD) and Grand Mufti al-Husseini. It should be noted here that a VERY IMPORTANT aspect of the conflict was encapsulated in the fact that was already known to the Security Forces of the Mandatory and the Jewish Haganah. In addition to his WWII duties for the SS [establishing and supporting the communication and intelligence facilities for the Abwehr (German military intelligence), recruiting and arming anti-British Palestinians] Hasan Salama was tasked with general harassment of the British Mandatory.
• SIDE NOTES:
  • In June 1948 in the early stages of the War for Independence, Hasan Salama was killed after a disastrous engagement with the Haganah in the Battle for Ras el-Ein.
  • Hasan Salama was the father to Ali Hasan Salama, principle planner for the 1972 Olympic Massacre by Black September.

When looking at this from a very practical standpoint, the Allied Powers do not normally bow to the demands made by non-aligned forces that fought on the side of enemy; especially the Axis Powers. Palestine, from the time the Occupied Enemy Territory Administration (OETA - 1918) was established --- until --- the termination of the British Mandate (1948), was defined under the Palestine Order in Council as those "territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applies, hereinafter described as Palestine."

The HoAP/PAIF have nothing comparable to this documentary evidence. And in practice, the HoAP/PAIF have no historical past, for more than a thousand years, that they had sovereign control over any of the territory they claim.

Most Respectfully,
R

1. Palestine from the river to the sea, and from north to south, is a land of the Palestinian people and its homeland and its legitimate right, we may not a waiver an inch or any part thereof, no matter what the reasons and circumstances and pressures.

2. Palestine - all of Palestine - is a land of Islamic and Arab affiliation, a blessed sacred land, that has a major portion in the heart of every Arab and Muslim

3. No recognition of the legitimacy of the occupation whatever; this is a principled position, political and moral, and therefore do not recognize the legitimacy of the Israeli occupation of Palestine, and recognition of "Israel" and the legitimacy of its presence on any part of Palestine no matter how long; and it will not be long, God willing.​

You are still not showing proof that this is not true.

Oh Tinmore, what are we to do with you. The borrom line is this. Israel exists as a country & Israel is there to stay as a country, whatever it takes. Cheer up & deal with it instead of being so miserable over what is reality.

 

[montelatici]

P F Tinmore, et al,

OK, one more time.

The State of Palestine is defined as:

Affirms its determination to contribute to the achievement of the inalienable rights of the Palestinian people and the attainment of a peaceful settlement in the Middle East that ends the occupation that began in 1967 and fulfills the vision of two States: an independent, sovereign, democratic, contiguous and viable State of Palestine living side by side in peace and security with Israel on the basis of the pre-1967 borders;
SOURCE: A/RES/67/19 4 DECEMBER 2012

P F Tinmore,

Quit being a wise ass.

Now can we get back to my question that you have been ducking?

(COMMENT)

What is your question?

Most Respectfully,
R

In the case of "Hamas attacks in Palestine;" this is a variation on the Palestinian Theme that "Palestine exists from the river to the sea."​

Do you have anything to prove otherwise?

(COMMENT)

In the context (the proper context in which this statement was made) the inference being made by the Palestinians is that the "Palestine" as surrendered by the Ottoman Empire to the Allied Powers --- a lesser included, arbitrary geographic area, as determined by the Allied Powers, was somehow:

1. Palestine from the river to the sea, and from north to south, is a land of the Palestinian people and its homeland and its legitimate right, we may not a waiver an inch or any part thereof, no matter what the reasons and circumstances and pressures.

2. Palestine - all of Palestine - is a land of Islamic and Arab affiliation, a blessed sacred land, that has a major portion in the heart of every Arab and Muslim

3. No recognition of the legitimacy of the occupation whatever; this is a principled position, political and moral, and therefore do not recognize the legitimacy of the Israeli occupation of Palestine, and recognition of "Israel" and the legitimacy of its presence on any part of Palestine no matter how long; and it will not be long, God willing.​

There is no formal agreement, convention, resolution or treaty that stipulates or substantiates these claims made by the former enemy aligned Arab elements of WWI (Central Powers), WWII (Axis Powers), or the regional security threat by the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) aligned with the Palestinian Arab Irregular Force (PAIF) (Holy War Army or the Arab Liberation Army) that allocates sovereignty to the HoAP/PAIF of any surrendered territory.

There is a bit of an absurdity here in the HoAP claim.

The outcome was the Partition Plan. The General Assembly adopted a Plan in 1947 which culminated in the Civil War between the Palestinian Arab Irregular Force (PAIF) and Jewish Community Forces/Israel Defense Forces (IDF):

• PAIF: in the 1947-48 led by Abd al-Qadir al-Husayni [killed in operations (April '48) before Israeli Independence] and Hasan Salama. Salama a former member of the Waffen SS and leader in WWII Operations jointly operated by Sicherheitsdienst (SS/SD) and Grand Mufti al-Husseini. It should be noted here that a VERY IMPORTANT aspect of the conflict was encapsulated in the fact that was already known to the Security Forces of the Mandatory and the Jewish Haganah. In addition to his WWII duties for the SS [establishing and supporting the communication and intelligence facilities for the Abwehr (German military intelligence), recruiting and arming anti-British Palestinians] Hasan Salama was tasked with general harassment of the British Mandatory.
• SIDE NOTES:
  • In June 1948 in the early stages of the War for Independence, Hasan Salama was killed after a disastrous engagement with the Haganah in the Battle for Ras el-Ein.
  • Hasan Salama was the father to Ali Hasan Salama, principle planner for the 1972 Olympic Massacre by Black September.

When looking at this from a very practical standpoint, the Allied Powers do not normally bow to the demands made by non-aligned forces that fought on the side of enemy; especially the Axis Powers. Palestine, from the time the Occupied Enemy Territory Administration (OETA - 1918) was established --- until --- the termination of the British Mandate (1948), was defined under the Palestine Order in Council as those "territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applies, hereinafter described as Palestine."

The HoAP/PAIF have nothing comparable to this documentary evidence. And in practice, the HoAP/PAIF have no historical past, for more than a thousand years, that they had sovereign control over any of the territory they claim.

Most Respectfully,
R

1. Palestine from the river to the sea, and from north to south, is a land of the Palestinian people and its homeland and its legitimate right, we may not a waiver an inch or any part thereof, no matter what the reasons and circumstances and pressures.

2. Palestine - all of Palestine - is a land of Islamic and Arab affiliation, a blessed sacred land, that has a major portion in the heart of every Arab and Muslim

3. No recognition of the legitimacy of the occupation whatever; this is a principled position, political and moral, and therefore do not recognize the legitimacy of the Israeli occupation of Palestine, and recognition of "Israel" and the legitimacy of its presence on any part of Palestine no matter how long; and it will not be long, God willing.​

You are still not showing proof that this is not true.

Oh Tinmore, what are we to do with you. The borrom line is this. Israel exists as a country & Israel is there to stay as a country, whatever it takes. Cheer up & deal with it instead of being so miserable over what is reality.

That's what the Rhodesians and white South Africans said.

 

[toastman]

P F Tinmore, et al,

OK, one more time.

The State of Palestine is defined as:

Affirms its determination to contribute to the achievement of the inalienable rights of the Palestinian people and the attainment of a peaceful settlement in the Middle East that ends the occupation that began in 1967 and fulfills the vision of two States: an independent, sovereign, democratic, contiguous and viable State of Palestine living side by side in peace and security with Israel on the basis of the pre-1967 borders;
SOURCE: A/RES/67/19 4 DECEMBER 2012

P F Tinmore,

Quit being a wise ass.

Now can we get back to my question that you have been ducking?

(COMMENT)

What is your question?

Most Respectfully,
R

In the case of "Hamas attacks in Palestine;" this is a variation on the Palestinian Theme that "Palestine exists from the river to the sea."​

Do you have anything to prove otherwise?

(COMMENT)

In the context (the proper context in which this statement was made) the inference being made by the Palestinians is that the "Palestine" as surrendered by the Ottoman Empire to the Allied Powers --- a lesser included, arbitrary geographic area, as determined by the Allied Powers, was somehow:

1. Palestine from the river to the sea, and from north to south, is a land of the Palestinian people and its homeland and its legitimate right, we may not a waiver an inch or any part thereof, no matter what the reasons and circumstances and pressures.

2. Palestine - all of Palestine - is a land of Islamic and Arab affiliation, a blessed sacred land, that has a major portion in the heart of every Arab and Muslim

3. No recognition of the legitimacy of the occupation whatever; this is a principled position, political and moral, and therefore do not recognize the legitimacy of the Israeli occupation of Palestine, and recognition of "Israel" and the legitimacy of its presence on any part of Palestine no matter how long; and it will not be long, God willing.​

There is no formal agreement, convention, resolution or treaty that stipulates or substantiates these claims made by the former enemy aligned Arab elements of WWI (Central Powers), WWII (Axis Powers), or the regional security threat by the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) aligned with the Palestinian Arab Irregular Force (PAIF) (Holy War Army or the Arab Liberation Army) that allocates sovereignty to the HoAP/PAIF of any surrendered territory.

There is a bit of an absurdity here in the HoAP claim.

The outcome was the Partition Plan. The General Assembly adopted a Plan in 1947 which culminated in the Civil War between the Palestinian Arab Irregular Force (PAIF) and Jewish Community Forces/Israel Defense Forces (IDF):

• PAIF: in the 1947-48 led by Abd al-Qadir al-Husayni [killed in operations (April '48) before Israeli Independence] and Hasan Salama. Salama a former member of the Waffen SS and leader in WWII Operations jointly operated by Sicherheitsdienst (SS/SD) and Grand Mufti al-Husseini. It should be noted here that a VERY IMPORTANT aspect of the conflict was encapsulated in the fact that was already known to the Security Forces of the Mandatory and the Jewish Haganah. In addition to his WWII duties for the SS [establishing and supporting the communication and intelligence facilities for the Abwehr (German military intelligence), recruiting and arming anti-British Palestinians] Hasan Salama was tasked with general harassment of the British Mandatory.
• SIDE NOTES:
  • In June 1948 in the early stages of the War for Independence, Hasan Salama was killed after a disastrous engagement with the Haganah in the Battle for Ras el-Ein.
  • Hasan Salama was the father to Ali Hasan Salama, principle planner for the 1972 Olympic Massacre by Black September.

When looking at this from a very practical standpoint, the Allied Powers do not normally bow to the demands made by non-aligned forces that fought on the side of enemy; especially the Axis Powers. Palestine, from the time the Occupied Enemy Territory Administration (OETA - 1918) was established --- until --- the termination of the British Mandate (1948), was defined under the Palestine Order in Council as those "territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applies, hereinafter described as Palestine."

The HoAP/PAIF have nothing comparable to this documentary evidence. And in practice, the HoAP/PAIF have no historical past, for more than a thousand years, that they had sovereign control over any of the territory they claim.

Most Respectfully,
R

1. Palestine from the river to the sea, and from north to south, is a land of the Palestinian people and its homeland and its legitimate right, we may not a waiver an inch or any part thereof, no matter what the reasons and circumstances and pressures.

2. Palestine - all of Palestine - is a land of Islamic and Arab affiliation, a blessed sacred land, that has a major portion in the heart of every Arab and Muslim

3. No recognition of the legitimacy of the occupation whatever; this is a principled position, political and moral, and therefore do not recognize the legitimacy of the Israeli occupation of Palestine, and recognition of "Israel" and the legitimacy of its presence on any part of Palestine no matter how long; and it will not be long, God willing.​

You are still not showing proof that this is not true.

Why are you debating something that is not up for debate? The State of Palestine is the West Bank and Gaza/ The issue is not that we are not proving it to you, the issue is that you refuse to accept reality.

Remember, Tinmore laws DO NOT apply to real life.

 

[toastman]

P F Tinmore, et al,

OK, one more time.

The State of Palestine is defined as:

Affirms its determination to contribute to the achievement of the inalienable rights of the Palestinian people and the attainment of a peaceful settlement in the Middle East that ends the occupation that began in 1967 and fulfills the vision of two States: an independent, sovereign, democratic, contiguous and viable State of Palestine living side by side in peace and security with Israel on the basis of the pre-1967 borders;
SOURCE: A/RES/67/19 4 DECEMBER 2012

P F Tinmore,

Quit being a wise ass.

(COMMENT)

What is your question?

Most Respectfully,
R

In the case of "Hamas attacks in Palestine;" this is a variation on the Palestinian Theme that "Palestine exists from the river to the sea."​

Do you have anything to prove otherwise?

(COMMENT)

In the context (the proper context in which this statement was made) the inference being made by the Palestinians is that the "Palestine" as surrendered by the Ottoman Empire to the Allied Powers --- a lesser included, arbitrary geographic area, as determined by the Allied Powers, was somehow:

1. Palestine from the river to the sea, and from north to south, is a land of the Palestinian people and its homeland and its legitimate right, we may not a waiver an inch or any part thereof, no matter what the reasons and circumstances and pressures.

2. Palestine - all of Palestine - is a land of Islamic and Arab affiliation, a blessed sacred land, that has a major portion in the heart of every Arab and Muslim

3. No recognition of the legitimacy of the occupation whatever; this is a principled position, political and moral, and therefore do not recognize the legitimacy of the Israeli occupation of Palestine, and recognition of "Israel" and the legitimacy of its presence on any part of Palestine no matter how long; and it will not be long, God willing.​

There is no formal agreement, convention, resolution or treaty that stipulates or substantiates these claims made by the former enemy aligned Arab elements of WWI (Central Powers), WWII (Axis Powers), or the regional security threat by the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) aligned with the Palestinian Arab Irregular Force (PAIF) (Holy War Army or the Arab Liberation Army) that allocates sovereignty to the HoAP/PAIF of any surrendered territory.

There is a bit of an absurdity here in the HoAP claim.

The outcome was the Partition Plan. The General Assembly adopted a Plan in 1947 which culminated in the Civil War between the Palestinian Arab Irregular Force (PAIF) and Jewish Community Forces/Israel Defense Forces (IDF):

• PAIF: in the 1947-48 led by Abd al-Qadir al-Husayni [killed in operations (April '48) before Israeli Independence] and Hasan Salama. Salama a former member of the Waffen SS and leader in WWII Operations jointly operated by Sicherheitsdienst (SS/SD) and Grand Mufti al-Husseini. It should be noted here that a VERY IMPORTANT aspect of the conflict was encapsulated in the fact that was already known to the Security Forces of the Mandatory and the Jewish Haganah. In addition to his WWII duties for the SS [establishing and supporting the communication and intelligence facilities for the Abwehr (German military intelligence), recruiting and arming anti-British Palestinians] Hasan Salama was tasked with general harassment of the British Mandatory.
• SIDE NOTES:
  • In June 1948 in the early stages of the War for Independence, Hasan Salama was killed after a disastrous engagement with the Haganah in the Battle for Ras el-Ein.
  • Hasan Salama was the father to Ali Hasan Salama, principle planner for the 1972 Olympic Massacre by Black September.

When looking at this from a very practical standpoint, the Allied Powers do not normally bow to the demands made by non-aligned forces that fought on the side of enemy; especially the Axis Powers. Palestine, from the time the Occupied Enemy Territory Administration (OETA - 1918) was established --- until --- the termination of the British Mandate (1948), was defined under the Palestine Order in Council as those "territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applies, hereinafter described as Palestine."

The HoAP/PAIF have nothing comparable to this documentary evidence. And in practice, the HoAP/PAIF have no historical past, for more than a thousand years, that they had sovereign control over any of the territory they claim.

Most Respectfully,
R

1. Palestine from the river to the sea, and from north to south, is a land of the Palestinian people and its homeland and its legitimate right, we may not a waiver an inch or any part thereof, no matter what the reasons and circumstances and pressures.

2. Palestine - all of Palestine - is a land of Islamic and Arab affiliation, a blessed sacred land, that has a major portion in the heart of every Arab and Muslim

3. No recognition of the legitimacy of the occupation whatever; this is a principled position, political and moral, and therefore do not recognize the legitimacy of the Israeli occupation of Palestine, and recognition of "Israel" and the legitimacy of its presence on any part of Palestine no matter how long; and it will not be long, God willing.​

You are still not showing proof that this is not true.

Oh Tinmore, what are we to do with you. The borrom line is this. Israel exists as a country & Israel is there to stay as a country, whatever it takes. Cheer up & deal with it instead of being so miserable over what is reality.

That's what the Rhodesians and white South Africans said.

What an incredibly dumb comparison.

 

[RoccoR]

montelatici, et al,

The Allied Powers never claimed sovereignty.

When did the European colonists have sovereign control over any of the territory they claimed, prior to partition?

(COMMENT)

The territories were surrendered to the Allied Powers. The Ottoman Unconditional Surrender 1918 was the essentially the end of the Ottoman engagement in WWI.

Partition has nothing to do with the award or establishment of sovereignty. The Anglo-Jordanian Treaty recognized Sovereignty of the Emir. However, the Jewish exercised self-determination under UN Guidance; moving from non-self governing to self-governing.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[montelatici]

montelatici, et al,

The Allied Powers never claimed sovereignty.

When did the European colonists have sovereign control over any of the territory they claimed, prior to partition?

(COMMENT)

The territories were surrendered to the Allied Powers. The Ottoman Unconditional Surrender 1918 was the essentially the end of the Ottoman engagement in WWI.

Partition has nothing to do with the award or establishment of sovereignty. The Anglo-Jordanian Treaty recognized Sovereignty of the Emir. However, the Jewish exercised self-determination under UN Guidance; moving from non-self governing to self-governing.

Most Respectfully,
R

So, why do you make a point of the fact that the indigenous Christians and Muslims had not had sovereignty? The European colonists hadn't it either. Try to be consistent.

 

[montelatici]

P F Tinmore, et al,

OK, one more time.

The State of Palestine is defined as:

Affirms its determination to contribute to the achievement of the inalienable rights of the Palestinian people and the attainment of a peaceful settlement in the Middle East that ends the occupation that began in 1967 and fulfills the vision of two States: an independent, sovereign, democratic, contiguous and viable State of Palestine living side by side in peace and security with Israel on the basis of the pre-1967 borders;
SOURCE: A/RES/67/19 4 DECEMBER 2012

In the case of "Hamas attacks in Palestine;" this is a variation on the Palestinian Theme that "Palestine exists from the river to the sea."​

Do you have anything to prove otherwise?

(COMMENT)

In the context (the proper context in which this statement was made) the inference being made by the Palestinians is that the "Palestine" as surrendered by the Ottoman Empire to the Allied Powers --- a lesser included, arbitrary geographic area, as determined by the Allied Powers, was somehow:

1. Palestine from the river to the sea, and from north to south, is a land of the Palestinian people and its homeland and its legitimate right, we may not a waiver an inch or any part thereof, no matter what the reasons and circumstances and pressures.

2. Palestine - all of Palestine - is a land of Islamic and Arab affiliation, a blessed sacred land, that has a major portion in the heart of every Arab and Muslim

3. No recognition of the legitimacy of the occupation whatever; this is a principled position, political and moral, and therefore do not recognize the legitimacy of the Israeli occupation of Palestine, and recognition of "Israel" and the legitimacy of its presence on any part of Palestine no matter how long; and it will not be long, God willing.​

There is no formal agreement, convention, resolution or treaty that stipulates or substantiates these claims made by the former enemy aligned Arab elements of WWI (Central Powers), WWII (Axis Powers), or the regional security threat by the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) aligned with the Palestinian Arab Irregular Force (PAIF) (Holy War Army or the Arab Liberation Army) that allocates sovereignty to the HoAP/PAIF of any surrendered territory.

There is a bit of an absurdity here in the HoAP claim.

The outcome was the Partition Plan. The General Assembly adopted a Plan in 1947 which culminated in the Civil War between the Palestinian Arab Irregular Force (PAIF) and Jewish Community Forces/Israel Defense Forces (IDF):

• PAIF: in the 1947-48 led by Abd al-Qadir al-Husayni [killed in operations (April '48) before Israeli Independence] and Hasan Salama. Salama a former member of the Waffen SS and leader in WWII Operations jointly operated by Sicherheitsdienst (SS/SD) and Grand Mufti al-Husseini. It should be noted here that a VERY IMPORTANT aspect of the conflict was encapsulated in the fact that was already known to the Security Forces of the Mandatory and the Jewish Haganah. In addition to his WWII duties for the SS [establishing and supporting the communication and intelligence facilities for the Abwehr (German military intelligence), recruiting and arming anti-British Palestinians] Hasan Salama was tasked with general harassment of the British Mandatory.
• SIDE NOTES:
  • In June 1948 in the early stages of the War for Independence, Hasan Salama was killed after a disastrous engagement with the Haganah in the Battle for Ras el-Ein.
  • Hasan Salama was the father to Ali Hasan Salama, principle planner for the 1972 Olympic Massacre by Black September.

When looking at this from a very practical standpoint, the Allied Powers do not normally bow to the demands made by non-aligned forces that fought on the side of enemy; especially the Axis Powers. Palestine, from the time the Occupied Enemy Territory Administration (OETA - 1918) was established --- until --- the termination of the British Mandate (1948), was defined under the Palestine Order in Council as those "territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applies, hereinafter described as Palestine."

The HoAP/PAIF have nothing comparable to this documentary evidence. And in practice, the HoAP/PAIF have no historical past, for more than a thousand years, that they had sovereign control over any of the territory they claim.

Most Respectfully,
R

1. Palestine from the river to the sea, and from north to south, is a land of the Palestinian people and its homeland and its legitimate right, we may not a waiver an inch or any part thereof, no matter what the reasons and circumstances and pressures.

2. Palestine - all of Palestine - is a land of Islamic and Arab affiliation, a blessed sacred land, that has a major portion in the heart of every Arab and Muslim

3. No recognition of the legitimacy of the occupation whatever; this is a principled position, political and moral, and therefore do not recognize the legitimacy of the Israeli occupation of Palestine, and recognition of "Israel" and the legitimacy of its presence on any part of Palestine no matter how long; and it will not be long, God willing.​

You are still not showing proof that this is not true.

Oh Tinmore, what are we to do with you. The borrom line is this. Israel exists as a country & Israel is there to stay as a country, whatever it takes. Cheer up & deal with it instead of being so miserable over what is reality.

That's what the Rhodesians and white South Africans said.

What an incredibly dumb comparison.

What's the difference?

 

[toastman]

P F Tinmore, et al,

OK, one more time.

The State of Palestine is defined as:

​

(COMMENT)

In the context (the proper context in which this statement was made) the inference being made by the Palestinians is that the "Palestine" as surrendered by the Ottoman Empire to the Allied Powers --- a lesser included, arbitrary geographic area, as determined by the Allied Powers, was somehow:

1. Palestine from the river to the sea, and from north to south, is a land of the Palestinian people and its homeland and its legitimate right, we may not a waiver an inch or any part thereof, no matter what the reasons and circumstances and pressures.

2. Palestine - all of Palestine - is a land of Islamic and Arab affiliation, a blessed sacred land, that has a major portion in the heart of every Arab and Muslim

3. No recognition of the legitimacy of the occupation whatever; this is a principled position, political and moral, and therefore do not recognize the legitimacy of the Israeli occupation of Palestine, and recognition of "Israel" and the legitimacy of its presence on any part of Palestine no matter how long; and it will not be long, God willing.​

There is no formal agreement, convention, resolution or treaty that stipulates or substantiates these claims made by the former enemy aligned Arab elements of WWI (Central Powers), WWII (Axis Powers), or the regional security threat by the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) aligned with the Palestinian Arab Irregular Force (PAIF) (Holy War Army or the Arab Liberation Army) that allocates sovereignty to the HoAP/PAIF of any surrendered territory.

There is a bit of an absurdity here in the HoAP claim.

The outcome was the Partition Plan. The General Assembly adopted a Plan in 1947 which culminated in the Civil War between the Palestinian Arab Irregular Force (PAIF) and Jewish Community Forces/Israel Defense Forces (IDF):

• PAIF: in the 1947-48 led by Abd al-Qadir al-Husayni [killed in operations (April '48) before Israeli Independence] and Hasan Salama. Salama a former member of the Waffen SS and leader in WWII Operations jointly operated by Sicherheitsdienst (SS/SD) and Grand Mufti al-Husseini. It should be noted here that a VERY IMPORTANT aspect of the conflict was encapsulated in the fact that was already known to the Security Forces of the Mandatory and the Jewish Haganah. In addition to his WWII duties for the SS [establishing and supporting the communication and intelligence facilities for the Abwehr (German military intelligence), recruiting and arming anti-British Palestinians] Hasan Salama was tasked with general harassment of the British Mandatory.
• SIDE NOTES:
  • In June 1948 in the early stages of the War for Independence, Hasan Salama was killed after a disastrous engagement with the Haganah in the Battle for Ras el-Ein.
  • Hasan Salama was the father to Ali Hasan Salama, principle planner for the 1972 Olympic Massacre by Black September.

When looking at this from a very practical standpoint, the Allied Powers do not normally bow to the demands made by non-aligned forces that fought on the side of enemy; especially the Axis Powers. Palestine, from the time the Occupied Enemy Territory Administration (OETA - 1918) was established --- until --- the termination of the British Mandate (1948), was defined under the Palestine Order in Council as those "territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applies, hereinafter described as Palestine."

The HoAP/PAIF have nothing comparable to this documentary evidence. And in practice, the HoAP/PAIF have no historical past, for more than a thousand years, that they had sovereign control over any of the territory they claim.

Most Respectfully,
R

1. Palestine from the river to the sea, and from north to south, is a land of the Palestinian people and its homeland and its legitimate right, we may not a waiver an inch or any part thereof, no matter what the reasons and circumstances and pressures.

2. Palestine - all of Palestine - is a land of Islamic and Arab affiliation, a blessed sacred land, that has a major portion in the heart of every Arab and Muslim

3. No recognition of the legitimacy of the occupation whatever; this is a principled position, political and moral, and therefore do not recognize the legitimacy of the Israeli occupation of Palestine, and recognition of "Israel" and the legitimacy of its presence on any part of Palestine no matter how long; and it will not be long, God willing.​

You are still not showing proof that this is not true.

Oh Tinmore, what are we to do with you. The borrom line is this. Israel exists as a country & Israel is there to stay as a country, whatever it takes. Cheer up & deal with it instead of being so miserable over what is reality.

That's what the Rhodesians and white South Africans said.

What an incredibly dumb comparison.

What's the difference?

If you don't know the difference between Israelis & Israel and Rhodesians & Africa, then you have issues.