Palestine Today

[P F Tinmore]

✪ The ICRC position on these matters is: "Refugees are protected by refugee law – mainly the Convention Relating to the Status of Refugees (1951)

Resolution 194 was passed in 1948 and was in strict compliance with international law. That was passed specifically to address the Palestinian refugees.

General Assembly resolutions are non-binding opinions.

Elaborate on your statement: “Resolution 194 was passed in 1948 and was in strict compliance with international law.”

Your opinions tend toward circuitous routes leading to confused and contradictory predefined conclusions.

Example?

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Palestine Today
※→ P F Tinmore, et a

NO!

✪ The use of the phrase "State Succession" means: the replacement of one state by another in the responsibility of international relations of the territory."

The rule of nationality and state succession states that when a new state succeeds another, all of the people who normally lived in that territory would become citizens of the new state. This was followed by the Treaty of Lausanne, the Mandate, and was a tenet of Resolution 181.

This means that all Palestinian refugees became citizens of Israel.

(COMMENT)

You are confused. I gave the link. Please take the time to read it. The territory was released to the Allied Powers that were to handle the "international relations of the territory." The Arab Palestinians had declined (three times before 1923) in the participation of the self-governing institution, that would have handled the international relations of the territory.

At the conclusion of the WWI, the territory under the Mandate did not pass-on to a successor "State" until 15 May 1948.

By the Way: Is UN GA 194 a BINDING Resolution?

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Shusha]

Both Tinmore and the scribbler who wrote the article are well aware that a UNGA resolution is not binding. Hence the need to scramble to find some other "international law" which supports any sort of 'right of return' for the Arab Palestinians uniquely.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Professional academics often publish rather than practice. (Them that cannot do ...) But operaators in the real world often find these published articleuseful as a means of maintaining a true course in the realities and alternative view in the Middle East.

Like Dr. Susan Akram who is a Professional academic and a practicing attorney in the field of immigration and refugee cases. Her views are quite similar to Dr Qafisheh.

 

[Shusha]

Professional academics often publish rather than practice. (Them that cannot do ...) But operaators in the real world often find these published articleuseful as a means of maintaining a true course in the realities and alternative view in the Middle East.

Like Dr. Susan Akram who is a Professional academic and a practicing attorney in the field of immigration and refugee cases. Her views are quite similar to Dr Qafisheh.

She also thinks the whole territory is Israel?!

 

[Hollie]

✪ The ICRC position on these matters is: "Refugees are protected by refugee law – mainly the Convention Relating to the Status of Refugees (1951)

Resolution 194 was passed in 1948 and was in strict compliance with international law. That was passed specifically to address the Palestinian refugees.

General Assembly resolutions are non-binding opinions.

Elaborate on your statement: “Resolution 194 was passed in 1948 and was in strict compliance with international law.”

Your opinions tend toward circuitous routes leading to confused and contradictory predefined conclusions.

Example?

One would be your odd notion that the Treaty of Lausanne created your imagined “country of Pal”istan, Another would be that UNGA opinions have any force of law.

 

[Hollie]

Professional academics often publish rather than practice. (Them that cannot do ...) But operaators in the real world often find these published articleuseful as a means of maintaining a true course in the realities and alternative view in the Middle East.

Like Dr. Susan Akram who is a Professional academic and a practicing attorney in the field of immigration and refugee cases. Her views are quite similar to Dr Qafisheh.

It’s nice that they share an opinion.

 

[P F Tinmore]

 

[P F Tinmore]

Resistance at 70: the future of the Palestinian national movement

 

[P F Tinmore]

Who holds sovereignty over the geographical territory commonly referred to as Palestine?

Israel holds military control. Military control does not equate to sovereignty. It is usually related to occupation.

 

[rylah]

Who holds sovereignty over the geographical territory commonly referred to as Palestine?

Israel holds military control. Military control does not equate to sovereignty. It is usually related to occupation.

Q. P F Tinmore and who agreed to that?

 

[Hollie]

Who holds sovereignty over the geographical territory commonly referred to as Palestine?

Israel holds military control. Military control does not equate to sovereignty. It is usually related to occupation.

Your islamo-tap dancing around the question is not surprising.

 

[P F Tinmore]

How is nationality of individuals determined in international law?

Nationality is determined by territory. Birth and blood. Palestinians born in Palestine are Palestinians by birth and blood. Children born of Palestinian refugees are Palestine by blood. Their parents are Palestinian nationals. We see this in the US. John McCain was born in Panama by US nationals. Ted Cruz was born in Canada by US nationals. Both are considered US nationals.

Nationality by birth alone can get political even though it is common.

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Palestine Today
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

Who the hell is "Lama Khater?" Lama Khater is an amateur blogger and contributing opinion writer for such pro-terrorist organizations such as al-Jazeera, the HAMAS-affiliated Quds News Network (QNN) (primarily composed of freelance wanna-be correspondents and 60 volunteers ambulance chasing story writers). She does not have a true portfolio due to not having a prior professional experience as a journalist.

Lama Khater is one of those people that attempts to pretend they are an unbiased source of eye-witness accounts that contribute to the incitement of terrorist acts, that motivates extremist activity and poses a serious danger to human rights.

"Free Lama Khater" poster

(COMMENT)

There is little question as to the importance of the role of the media in the creation of a productive dialogue and in promoting tolerance in fostering an environment which is not conducive to incitement of terrorism. However, Lama Khater makes no such contribution. She, instead, does the opposite and attempts to be the center of attention by playing the part of a heroine; one caught in the middle of a freedom of the press issue.

Lama Khater is NOT a person who acts with extraordinary courage. On the contrary, Lama Khater has been charged in connection with inciting "hostile" activities against Israeli soldiers and settlers. She has been promoting Jihadism, Hostile Insurgency Operations, Radicalized Islamic Behaviors, and Asymmetric Violence. Pro-Arab Palestinian forces are using organizations like the Palestinian Prisoner Society (PPS) (no better than a fraternal organization of gangsters) and The Committee to Protect Journalists (CPJ) to gain sympathy; changing the story from "why she was apprehended," to focusing on the fact of it is a "detention of a journalist."

Just my thought.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[rylah]

How is nationality of individuals determined in international law?

Nationality is determined by territory. Birth and blood. Palestinians born in Palestine are Palestinians by birth and blood. Children born of Palestinian refugees are Palestine by blood. Their parents are Palestinian nationals. We see this in the US. John McCain was born in Panama by US nationals. Ted Cruz was born in Canada by US nationals. Both are considered US nationals.

Nationality by birth alone can get political even though it is common.

LOSS OF NATIONALITY

At the initiative of the State (Article 7) 48.
Article 7 of the Convention sets out specific instances in which an individual can lose his or her nationality ex lege or at the initiative of the State. Automatic loss of citizenship is usually concerned with the voluntary acquisition of another nationality but it can also occur when an individual has been abroad and there has been no contact with the home State. Such matters are dealt with in the Convention (Articles 7.1.a and e). The other means of losing citizenship is through revocation. The Convention sets out in some detail the circumstances in which revocation should be allowed. These are: acquisition of nationality by means of fraudulent conduct, false information or concealment of any relevant fact (Article 7.1.b); voluntary service in a foreign military force (Article 7.1.c); conduct seriously prejudicial to the vital interests of the State (Article 7.1.d); where it is established during the minority of a child that the preconditions which led to the ex lege acquisition of nationality are no longer fulfilled (Article 7.1.f); and where upon adoption a child acquires a foreign nationality of one or both of the adoptive parents (Article 7.1.g). But many States have in their legislation other reasons for the deprivation of citizenship. These may include such matters as conviction for a serious criminal offence; public service without permission in a foreign State, especially if by doing so the 16 individual acquires the foreign nationality; working for a foreign intelligence or security service or military organisation; performance of acts contrary to the interests of the State; where an individual fails his or her duty of fidelity and loyalty; and attempting to forcefully change the constitutional state system. These matters were rejected by the CJ-NA in drafting the Convention and it is unlikely that extra circumstances would be accepted for adding to the Convention.

49. Article 7.2 of the Convention deals with the loss of a State’s nationality by children whose parents lose that nationality. It provides that a child should not lose the nationality if one of the parents retains it. No mention is made of whether a young person should have the right to remedy any decisions regarding his or her nationality which had been lost through decisions or actions in which he or she had no input and it should be considered whether to make a Recommendation on this matter.

COMMITTEE OF EXPERTS ON NATIONALITY - Council of Europe

 

[rylah]

How is nationality of individuals determined in international law?

Nationality is determined by territory. Birth and blood. Palestinians born in Palestine are Palestinians by birth and blood. Children born of Palestinian refugees are Palestine by blood. Their parents are Palestinian nationals. We see this in the US. John McCain was born in Panama by US nationals. Ted Cruz was born in Canada by US nationals. Both are considered US nationals.

Nationality by birth alone can get political even though it is common.

LOSS OF NATIONALITY

At the initiative of the State (Article 7) 48.
Article 7 of the Convention sets out specific instances in which an individual can lose his or her nationality ex lege or at the initiative of the State. Automatic loss of citizenship is usually concerned with the voluntary acquisition of another nationality but it can also occur when an individual has been abroad and there has been no contact with the home State. Such matters are dealt with in the Convention (Articles 7.1.a and e). The other means of losing citizenship is through revocation. The Convention sets out in some detail the circumstances in which revocation should be allowed. These are: acquisition of nationality by means of fraudulent conduct, false information or concealment of any relevant fact (Article 7.1.b); voluntary service in a foreign military force (Article 7.1.c); conduct seriously prejudicial to the vital interests of the State (Article 7.1.d); where it is established during the minority of a child that the preconditions which led to the ex lege acquisition of nationality are no longer fulfilled (Article 7.1.f); and where upon adoption a child acquires a foreign nationality of one or both of the adoptive parents (Article 7.1.g). But many States have in their legislation other reasons for the deprivation of citizenship. These may include such matters as conviction for a serious criminal offence; public service without permission in a foreign State, especially if by doing so the 16 individual acquires the foreign nationality; working for a foreign intelligence or security service or military organisation; performance of acts contrary to the interests of the State; where an individual fails his or her duty of fidelity and loyalty; and attempting to forcefully change the constitutional state system. These matters were rejected by the CJ-NA in drafting the Convention and it is unlikely that extra circumstances would be accepted for adding to the Convention.

49. Article 7.2 of the Convention deals with the loss of a State’s nationality by children whose parents lose that nationality. It provides that a child should not lose the nationality if one of the parents retains it. No mention is made of whether a young person should have the right to remedy any decisions regarding his or her nationality which had been lost through decisions or actions in which he or she had no input and it should be considered whether to make a Recommendation on this matter.

COMMITTEE OF EXPERTS ON NATIONALITY - Council of Europe

Losing Dutch nationality
You can lose your Dutch nationality. It does not matter if you have been Dutch from birth, or have taken Dutch nationality later in life. You can lose your Dutch nationality automatically, or it may be revoked by the authorities.

• Automatic loss of Dutch nationality
• Revocation of Dutch nationality by the authorities

Automatic loss of Dutch nationality
You can lose your Dutch nationality automatically. For example, if you voluntarily acquire another nationality or if you sign a declaration renouncing your Dutch nationality.

Revoking of Dutch nationality by the authorities
It is also possible for the authorities to revoke your Dutch nationality. For instance, if you obtained Dutch nationality by fraudulent means. Or if you join an organisation that poses a threat to national security.

Losing Dutch nationality

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Palestine Today
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

You keep the issue that "military control" ≠ "sovereignty." True, and no one is arguing that point. Sovereignty is about exercising "decision making power and authority." IF a territory is "exclusively" under the "power and authority" of country "A" → THEN no other country can claim sovereignty.

​

Who holds sovereignty over the geographical territory commonly referred to as Palestine?

Israel holds military control. Military control does not equate to sovereignty. It is usually related to occupation.

Your islamo-tap dancing around the question is not surprising.

(COMMENT)

There are all manner in levels of 'control." Yes, to be an occupation power, the occupation force must have "effective control." But that is only one aspect of control; military, police or otherwise.

Sovereignty can be acquired and maintained by military control or in which constitutional provisions for government remanded into the hands of the military and civilian control is suspended [eg military dictatorship - Egypt (Middle East) or Ethiopia (Africa)].

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

RE: Palestine Today
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

You keep the issue that "military control" ≠ "sovereignty." True, and no one is arguing that point. Sovereignty is about exercising "decision making power and authority." IF a territory is "exclusively" under the "power and authority" of country "A" → THEN no other country can claim sovereignty.

View attachment 214732
​

Who holds sovereignty over the geographical territory commonly referred to as Palestine?

Israel holds military control. Military control does not equate to sovereignty. It is usually related to occupation.

Your islamo-tap dancing around the question is not surprising.

(COMMENT)

There are all manner in levels of 'control." Yes, to be an occupation power, the occupation force must have "effective control." But that is only one aspect of control; military, police or otherwise.

Sovereignty can be acquired and maintained by military control or in which constitutional provisions for government remanded into the hands of the military and civilian control is suspended [eg military dictatorship - Egypt (Middle East) or Ethiopia (Africa)].

Most Respectfully,
R

OK, but sovereignty cannot be acquired by force.

 

[P F Tinmore]

How is nationality of individuals determined in international law?

Nationality is determined by territory. Birth and blood. Palestinians born in Palestine are Palestinians by birth and blood. Children born of Palestinian refugees are Palestine by blood. Their parents are Palestinian nationals. We see this in the US. John McCain was born in Panama by US nationals. Ted Cruz was born in Canada by US nationals. Both are considered US nationals.

Nationality by birth alone can get political even though it is common.

LOSS OF NATIONALITY

At the initiative of the State (Article 7) 48.
Article 7 of the Convention sets out specific instances in which an individual can lose his or her nationality ex lege or at the initiative of the State. Automatic loss of citizenship is usually concerned with the voluntary acquisition of another nationality but it can also occur when an individual has been abroad and there has been no contact with the home State. Such matters are dealt with in the Convention (Articles 7.1.a and e). The other means of losing citizenship is through revocation. The Convention sets out in some detail the circumstances in which revocation should be allowed. These are: acquisition of nationality by means of fraudulent conduct, false information or concealment of any relevant fact (Article 7.1.b); voluntary service in a foreign military force (Article 7.1.c); conduct seriously prejudicial to the vital interests of the State (Article 7.1.d); where it is established during the minority of a child that the preconditions which led to the ex lege acquisition of nationality are no longer fulfilled (Article 7.1.f); and where upon adoption a child acquires a foreign nationality of one or both of the adoptive parents (Article 7.1.g). But many States have in their legislation other reasons for the deprivation of citizenship. These may include such matters as conviction for a serious criminal offence; public service without permission in a foreign State, especially if by doing so the 16 individual acquires the foreign nationality; working for a foreign intelligence or security service or military organisation; performance of acts contrary to the interests of the State; where an individual fails his or her duty of fidelity and loyalty; and attempting to forcefully change the constitutional state system. These matters were rejected by the CJ-NA in drafting the Convention and it is unlikely that extra circumstances would be accepted for adding to the Convention.

49. Article 7.2 of the Convention deals with the loss of a State’s nationality by children whose parents lose that nationality. It provides that a child should not lose the nationality if one of the parents retains it. No mention is made of whether a young person should have the right to remedy any decisions regarding his or her nationality which had been lost through decisions or actions in which he or she had no input and it should be considered whether to make a Recommendation on this matter.

COMMITTEE OF EXPERTS ON NATIONALITY - Council of Europe

voluntary service in a foreign military force

Like American Jews joining the IDF?

 

[rylah]

How is nationality of individuals determined in international law?

Nationality is determined by territory. Birth and blood. Palestinians born in Palestine are Palestinians by birth and blood. Children born of Palestinian refugees are Palestine by blood. Their parents are Palestinian nationals. We see this in the US. John McCain was born in Panama by US nationals. Ted Cruz was born in Canada by US nationals. Both are considered US nationals.

Nationality by birth alone can get political even though it is common.

LOSS OF NATIONALITY

At the initiative of the State (Article 7) 48.
Article 7 of the Convention sets out specific instances in which an individual can lose his or her nationality ex lege or at the initiative of the State. Automatic loss of citizenship is usually concerned with the voluntary acquisition of another nationality but it can also occur when an individual has been abroad and there has been no contact with the home State. Such matters are dealt with in the Convention (Articles 7.1.a and e). The other means of losing citizenship is through revocation. The Convention sets out in some detail the circumstances in which revocation should be allowed. These are: acquisition of nationality by means of fraudulent conduct, false information or concealment of any relevant fact (Article 7.1.b); voluntary service in a foreign military force (Article 7.1.c); conduct seriously prejudicial to the vital interests of the State (Article 7.1.d); where it is established during the minority of a child that the preconditions which led to the ex lege acquisition of nationality are no longer fulfilled (Article 7.1.f); and where upon adoption a child acquires a foreign nationality of one or both of the adoptive parents (Article 7.1.g). But many States have in their legislation other reasons for the deprivation of citizenship. These may include such matters as conviction for a serious criminal offence; public service without permission in a foreign State, especially if by doing so the 16 individual acquires the foreign nationality; working for a foreign intelligence or security service or military organisation; performance of acts contrary to the interests of the State; where an individual fails his or her duty of fidelity and loyalty; and attempting to forcefully change the constitutional state system. These matters were rejected by the CJ-NA in drafting the Convention and it is unlikely that extra circumstances would be accepted for adding to the Convention.

49. Article 7.2 of the Convention deals with the loss of a State’s nationality by children whose parents lose that nationality. It provides that a child should not lose the nationality if one of the parents retains it. No mention is made of whether a young person should have the right to remedy any decisions regarding his or her nationality which had been lost through decisions or actions in which he or she had no input and it should be considered whether to make a Recommendation on this matter.

COMMITTEE OF EXPERTS ON NATIONALITY - Council of Europe

voluntary service in a foreign military force

Like American Jews joining the IDF?

American Jews joining the IDF become nationals of an ally state, as many other double-nationality citizens, on the other hand US citizens participating in Hamas military activity can become a target of involuntary citizenship revocation for assisting an enemy of the state.

This is what called "conduct seriously prejudicial to the vital interests of the State", this both with 'voluntary service in a foreign military force' are usually considered as threats against national security.