Open Borders

[007]

Here's the truth. The world population has gotten more mobile. Many people live in more than one country and have multiple citizen status.

We are all for free trade.

"Proponents of transnationalism seek to facilitate the flow of people, ideas, and goods between regions. They believe that it has increasing relevance with the rapid growth of globalization. They contend that it does not make sense to link specific nation-state boundaries with for instance migratory workforces, globalized corporations, global money flow, global information flow, and global scientific cooperation.

Transnationalism designates a recent shift in migration patterns. Migration used to be a rather directed movement with a point of departure and a point of arrival. It is nowadays increasingly turning into an ongoing movement between two or more social spaces. Facilitated by increased global transportation and telecommunication technologies, more and more migrants have developed strong transnational ties to more than one home country, blurring the congruence of social space and geographic space."
Transnationalism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



"There is a time and a place in the ceaseless human endeavor to change the world, when alternative visions, no matter how fantastic, provide the grist for shaping powerful forces for change."

David Harvey

One problem here skyhigh, it won't work. What your good author is purporting is just his one sided, narrow minded opinion of what he wants the world to become, his SOCIALIST world. I got news for ya though, it will never happen. The world is too big, and there's too many greedy, ambitious people. There will never be one central government. There will never be ONE PERSON in charge of "the world." Nope. Ain't gonna happen. Man is not perfect. Man fights man. War will ALWAYS be a part of this world, and will ALWAYS stand in the way of what you and your author are dreaming about. The world will lay in ashes LONG before it's people stand around the globe holding hands singing Kum Ba Ya.

 

[WillowTree]

I'm not sure I back the idea yet. I am looking at it and reading about it. This is hardly the time or the environment in which to look at the OPen Border arguments thoughtfully.

Nonetheless, I plan to continue to read about it, and if people are interested, discuss the ideas with them.

there ain't no discussion worth having til you figure out who's gonna pay for it and if it will be equal smeaquel for all people doh!

 

[sky dancer]

What the good author is doing is thinking outside the box. He's way ahead of his time.

 

[sky dancer]

there ain't no discussion worth having til you figure out who's gonna pay for it and if it will be equal smeaquel for all people doh!

Who pays for you to go from one state to the next? You do. You pay taxes on gas, you pay sales tax in states that require it and you pay federal and state taxes.

What the author of the article proposes is making travel between Mexico and Canada no different than state to state travel.

Some states you have to go through toll bridges and have your fruit picked over and some you don't.

 

[007]

What the good author is doing is thinking outside the box. He's way ahead of his time.

There's nothing timeless, either forward or backwards about ludicrous thought. Some ideas are just purely absurd, just like a frivolous law suit. You should have enough sense to recognize it as such. Any author thinking the earth will someday be one big happy family is nothing more than a quack.

 

[WillowTree]

Who pays for you to go from one state to the next? You do. You pay taxes on gas, you pay sales tax in states that require it and you pay federal and state taxes.

What the author of the article proposes is making travel between Mexico and Canada no different than state to state travel.

Some states you have to go through toll bridges and have your fruit picked over and some you don't.

no,, clearly you said open borders to work and liveno tell me who's gonna pay for their education and the medical and if it's going to be equal smeaqual between all countries, and stop with the jive about the "author" tell me what you have planned..

 

[sky dancer]

no,, clearly you said open borders to work and liveno tell me who's gonna pay for their education and the medical and if it's going to be equal smeaqual between all countries, and stop with the jive about the "author" tell me what you have planned..

You're presuming there must be a welfare state to support the idea. That's another discussioin.

 

[catzmeow]

For the most part, since we had slavery, non-citizens have done the majority of farm labor. A few exceptions to the rule do not change this fact.

Proof? This is quite an exceptional claim. As a kid who grew up in the rural midwest on a farm, I think you're full of hooey.

 

[Againsheila]

Proof? This is quite an exceptional claim. As a kid who grew up in the rural midwest on a farm, I think you're full of hooey.

I can remember the berry fields as a kid, no foreigners there. I started working the fields at 12. At 14, the foreigners started showing up. Then, when I was 18, no more caucasions at all.

I would like to see the proof too.

 

[Ravi]

Proof? This is quite an exceptional claim. As a kid who grew up in the rural midwest on a farm, I think you're full of hooey.

Not to insult your education, but, *ahem.*

Here's a simplified brief history for you.

Brief History of Farm Labor in the United States

 

[bk1983]

Sorry, but I'd already taken a pay cut. Some people at United had taken 3 of them. Labor is a VERY small percentage of the budget for a corporation. United is having more problems now, thanks to sending those jobs overseas. Even while I was working there, they opened that call center in India and there wasn't a day that went by that I didn't have to fix something that went wrong with those reservations taken by the people in India. Now that they have gone 24/7 in India, United is having REAL problems, only now they have to get fixed at the airports, which is why airport rage is so high. United's stock has plummeted. Their customer base has shrunk. In truth, they've lost more by sending our jobs to India than they gained. The CEO is just too stubborn to admit it. In fact, when people complained so much and instead of talking to the people in India, just kept dialing until they got an American, United responding by having ALL North American flight reservations handled in India. That caused them to lose even more customers.

Again labor is a VERY small percentage of the budget. Now, due to all their problems, instead of bringing back those jobs, they are charging for you to check ANY bags. Do you really think they are going to gain more customers with that decision?

When corporations figure out that their employees ARE a great part of the reason the corporation does well, maybe then things will get better. But I don't see that happening anytime soon. You do know "you get what you pay for" don't you?

You get what you pay for? Are you serious? So when you go to a doctor

and he prescribes medication for you, do you buy the $90 name brand or

the generic $5 equivalent? Even though they have the exact same content

and are produced under the same stringent methods. Please tell me why

the name brand is $85 better?

 

[Againsheila]

You get what you pay for? Are you serious? So when you go to a doctor

and he prescribes medication for you, do you buy the $90 name brand or

the generic $5 equivalent? Even though they have the exact same content

and are produced under the same stringent methods. Please tell me why

the name brand is $85 better?

Well, for one thing, the brand name is made in the USA, the knockoff is made in China and doesn't follow the same stringent controls.

Which do you think is better? The highschool play for $5.00, or the profession play for $50.00?

Nice way to ignore everything I said in my post and pick out one little thing and twist it to fit your thinking.

Do you really believe labor at $4.00 an hour in India is better than labor in the USA at $9.00 and hour? If so, then why did all those people hang up and call again when they got the people in India? HMM? Why was United forced to stop allowing North American calls to be taking in the USA to force people to speak to the labor in India?

 

[bk1983]

Well, for one thing, the brand name is made in the USA, the knockoff is made in China and doesn't follow the same stringent controls.

Which do you think is better? The highschool play for $5.00, or the profession play for $50.00?

Nice way to ignore everything I said in my post and pick out one little thing and twist it to fit your thinking.

Do you really believe labor at $4.00 an hour in India is better than labor in the USA at $9.00 and hour? If so, then why did all those people hang up and call again when they got the people in India? HMM? Why was United forced to stop allowing North American calls to be taking in the USA to force people to speak to the labor in India?

First off you are wrong, the generic medication is approved by FDA

and does have to pass the same levels of quality control. Your example

of the play proved my point to be correct, you dont always get what you

pay for. Just because union workers demand higher pay doesn't mean they

are any more skilled then the non union workers. As in your case you may be

right, but the airlines industry is struggling not because of customer service

but rather the cost of fuel. Again I am not saying that the workers from India

are any better then the workers from here. But your whole argument is too

simple and paints a complicated situation with a very broad brush. Higher pay

doesn't equal higher level of performance, I am sure you had some managers

you worked for that got paid more then you,, even though you could

perform all the same duties they do even better.

 

[Againsheila]

First off you are wrong, the generic medication is approved by FDA

and does have to pass the same levels of quality control. Your example

of the play proved my point to be correct, you dont always get what you

pay for. Just because union workers demand higher pay doesn't mean they

are any more skilled then the non union workers. As in your case you may be

right, but the airlines industry is struggling not because of customer service

but rather the cost of fuel. Again I am not saying that the workers from India

are any better then the workers from here. But your whole argument is too

simple and paints a complicated situation with a very broad brush. Higher pay

doesn't equal higher level of performance, I am sure you had some managers

you worked for that got paid more then you,, even though you could

perform all the same duties they do even better.

Actually, the only person's whose job I felt I could do better, was the CEO.

 

[bk1983]

Actually, the only person's whose job I felt I could do better, was the CEO.

Better then the CEO? Even though the average CEO makes 6 figures.

I guess the company didn't get what they paid for.

 

[WillowTree]

You're presuming there must be a welfare state to support the idea. That's another discussioin.

I presume nothing,, it's a reality.. what planet do you live on? I think this is a disucssion that is hopeless.. Kerry On.

 

[editec]

You're just being silly now, aren't you? Or do you honestly think migrant and/or undocumented farmworkers started around the time of your bud Chavez? Ever hear of slavery? How about all the asian farmworkers in the 1800s? The Irish? To name but a few. All integrated.

Different times, Ravi.

There was no shortage of work to be done back then, and there was a real shortage of workers, too.

Despite all those new immirgants the salaries of workers was still rising, and that was before unions, too.

Right now America does not need ten million new workers.

If it did they would not be illegal aliens.

We'd be not only letting those people in, our industries would be, as they were in the 19th century, sending agents overseas to hire aliens in their own lands, paying their traveling expenses to America, and putting them immediately to work at tasks for which there had been no AMERICAN WORKERS to do those tasks.

 

[Ravi]

They actually do that. Not legally, of course, because we have pretty strict immigration quotas. We've had some scandals recently about immigrants being smuggled in (packed like sardines in trucks) and basically treated as slaves while they work in the cane fields and on the vegetable farms.

 

[WillowTree]

They actually do that. Not legally, of course, because we have pretty strict immigration quotas. We've had some scandals recently about immigrants being smuggled in (packed like sardines in trucks) and basically treated as slaves while they work in the cane fields and on the vegetable farms.

yep,, yess sirrreee the most recent one caught was the son of a Democratic congressman from Florida. His son had a truckload of illegals, firearms, cocaine,, and guess what???? he got to go to rehab!! and it was all very hush hush and a family matter.. just let Sarah Palin's daughter get pregnant though and you idiots go apeshit. Well you bought yourselves a bunch of loyalty from hispanics, expect the illegals to keep increasing in numbers and to take about 3/4 of all those wonderful jobs the obamalama is going to create for you,,they'll be bonafide citizens by then and there ain't a damn thing you can do about it. Allen Boyd was the name..

 

[WillowTree]

KVOA News 4, Tucson, Arizona - Congressman's son caught smuggling immigrants




"this is a family matter, and I will be dealing with it privately."