Official USMB -- Walls 101 Course for Week of Jan 14th, 2019 -- DO NOT DUPLICATE TOPIC.

[BluesLegend]

The three reasons Progressives give for not supporting the "Wall" are all lies:

Too expensive? Compared to what? Illegals cost us tens of billions (Fed, State, and Local) every single year.

It won't work. Bullshit. Walls work all over the world, and already have dramatically decreased illegal crossings at many key points along the border. Will it stop ALL ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION? Stupid question. The Wall is one part of a multi-pronged campaign to improve border security. Just like drones, guards, cameras, and patrols.

Immoral? Again, bullshit. Should we removed the effective walls we already have?

It's only a question of time before the Public realizes that it's the Democrats who are being unreasonable. Five Billion is a mere pimple on the butt of the U.S. budget. Not even worthy of a long discussion, let along a month-long partial shutdown.

They tried to label anyone who supported border security a racist. That failed so now they lie and deny there is even a problem. When the parents of American kids killed by illegals confront Dem's they run and hide.

 

[John Shaw]

That's exactly what it is. Trump promised a wall to his largely uneducated followers (the educated ones know a border wall would be ineffective and don't care much for it) and now, even though he doesn't give a damn about border security, he will do anything for the wall to avoid looking weak. Trump is all about appearances. He doesn't really care about anything else. As long as there's a wall there, he doesn't care what it actually does (or doesn't do).

Anyone who says a wall isn’t effective isn’t among the educated.

If walls aren’t effective why do politicians build them around their homes?

If they aren’t effective why did the Berlin Wall cause such problems?

Please feel free to answer

Why are you posing false equivalencies like they're serious questions? Lol.

It’s just incredible to me they are talking about walls in general being useful automatically means it is an effective and feasible border security policy.

It’s like saying “well tasers are effective tools for the police to use, that means we can arm our troops abroad with tasers instead of rifles because they get the job done.”

He is trying to trick me into writing a long, serious answer to an absolutely retarded set of false equivalencies. Either he's a massive idiot or he's trolling.

So I’m trying to trick you into actually supporting your stupid assertion that you obviously can’t support by asking you to support it?

I’m really clever that way aren’t I?

Look if you can’t do it just say so. Just stop pretending you’re educated when it’s obvious you arent

You are comparing the wall around someone's house with a giant wall across the U.S,/Mexico border, each of which would have totally different intentions. For instance, a private wall is most often used to keep in pets and for privacy, not to keep people out. We have electronic security systems for that. I am educated, but to be honest you don't even need a high school education to see the obvious flaws with your logic. They're everywhere.

 

[John Shaw]

Do you just believe anything the GOP and conservative media says? Lol that is such a non sense. Of course they do.

First of all, the GOP and conservative media never said that, that I know of. I said that.

Furthermore, you are showing off your lack of critical thinking skills again. The fact of the matter is that it is impossible for tax cut to add to the deficit because all tax cuts cost exactly $0.00.

Borrowing adds to the deficit, not tax cuts.

Are you really too stupid to comprehend that fact?

And we borrow because you assfucks cut revenues without cutting spending.

The people are Tired of being ignored. We are tired of being promised border security to get elected by people in both parties and then completely neglecting it when they get to Washington.

I don’t think the wall would be necessary if the politicians actually kept their promise and enforced the law. But we don’t trust them. So we need a wall so they don’t have an excuse to not enforce border security

Both parties have voted for increased border security. You are just duped by your orange master into thinking a wall would help.

Even someone as dumb as chuck shumer knows a wall would help

No one is saying a wall wouldn't help.

What people are questioning is whether a wall is worth it when such a high % of the illegal population and drug traffic doesn't even come across the border like that. Not to mention that the Mexican cartels have more than enough resources to get around a damn wall that is just going to keep sucking up money over the years.

So we go from

Only “the uneducated think a wall will work” to “no one claims it won’t work, it’s just not cost effective “

That’s what rational people call conceding the argument

Do you actually have brain damage? Be honest.

 

[dcbl]

Trump is losing support

um hmm

after he cost the GOP the US House with unprecedented losses

you're not big on history & historical trends eh?

3rd time in the last 100 years the party that holds the WH actually gained seats in the Senate

and he lost less seats in the House than either Clinton or Obama; but keep telling yourself whatever you need to help you sleep at night

 

[shockedcanadian]

Even if it wasn't popular, Trump needs to build it.

He took an oath to protect the United States of America. Be they a foreign army or a foreign caravan.

Americans should question who they want, pick and choose who they want and defend their citizesn from illegal immigrants who have no interest in contributing.

Stay the course President Trump. History will judge you to be correct.

 

[JGalt]

sucks to be stuck in a partisan news bubble: reality bites

How Popular Is Donald Trump?​

since the shutdown Trump ratings nudge down. that is news because it means people who have been supporting Trump are -- ahem, on the fence or have been

================

Number 3: A majority of Americans (58%) oppose substantially expanding the wall along the U.S.-Mexico border – as Trump has sought – while 40% support doing so, according to a January 2019 survey by the Center. Attitudes diverge sharply by party: Around eight-in-ten Republicans and Republican-leaning independents (82%) support expanding the wall, while an even larger share of Democrats and Democratic leaners (93%) oppose it.

How Americans see illegal immigration, the border wall and political compromise​

sucks to be stuck in a partisan news bubble: reality bites

5 Many Americans disapprove of the way shutdown negotiations are being handled. A little over a third of Americans (36%) approve of Trump’s handling of the negotiations, while the same share approves of the way congressional Republicans are handling the situation. Public views of Democratic leaders’ handling of the shutdown talks are somewhat more positive than views of Trump or GOP leaders – still, less than half (43%) approve.​

sucks to be stuck in a partisan news bubble: reality bites

41.3% approval rating among polls of likely or registered voters. Not bad really, when you consider that Obama's approval rating was only 47.6% approval at the same point in time, and he had the full support of just about every media organization propping him up.

Of course your medicine tastes nasty, little child. But you're going to take it anyway, whether you like or not.

 

[beautress]

At this point, I think republican voters and the GOP just want to feel like they have accomplished something. It’s less to do with the wall and more saving face.

I mean you really have to appreciate how bizarre Trump and the GOP are pushing for this useless border wall. This is being fueled by desperation at this point. The symbolism of accomplishment of the policy is really all that matters. The rest of the world is laughing at us in the meantime. Canada probably wants to build a wall to keep us out at this point and I wouldn’t blame them.

The wall will never be built for various reasons even after funding for it would
be secured, but let’s pretend it miraculously does get built. Then what? Is this really all the GOP has to offer? Do their voters just expect them to achieve nothing after this?

Say what you want about democrats, but at least they have a variety of policy ideas to consider. That’s just the nature of progressive policy.

Billy, I have spoken with a state administrative-level educator, and here's the deal: in this border state, the costs of school to educate children who come here at every age over the border, with or without parents has been grossly dismissed in the political decision-making branch of the Democrat Party.. Taking a child into the fold when he is the age of fourth-graders, but he cannot speak English, has never learned to read nor write nor use a computer--he may be severely malnourished and have cognitive issues for any one of a thousand reasons. To diagnose and deal with, the schools must teach this child to read, write, do math and get him able to junior high school not in six years, but 2 years, which means they have to have bilingual teachers, with health and age-appropriate education, social worker assistive knowledge, strong cultural knowledge of the Latin Americas, of which there are several nations segmenting off native populations and shipping them off to other countries, more in the last 10 years than ever before, in other words, they have to put these children first, raise taxes on the middle class, and put middle class childrens' needs after the crying needs of these children on basically, the same budget with more demands made on the educational background of average teachers who were only responsible for objective learning before, and handling these kinds of children require more Master and Doctorate-level teachers, without the ability to compensate the extra college required to know all these specialty skills to deal with merging several cultures coming over the border with the culture already here. She said the net result that she has seen is teacher exhaustion and leaving education to do anything else at lower pay due to burnout, frustration, and all that goes with the stress of more responsibilities piled on them by the burgeoning requirements made at this time.

That said, the situation is not helped by educators dreading more refugees pouring over the border with parents who see not asylum, but better pay over here, so the goalset of the people crossing is one of moving up, not getting freed from mistreatment. I heard this from the Horse's mouth, not from someone who gloats on gossip. It's the real deal. The education is so costly, the school systems in border states have critical care issues of teachers beleaguered with excessive responsibilities.

If you're hitting on a President or a political party or on teachers in general, you're hitting on the wrong target. You should be looking on that culture that is greedily ridding themselves of people they have no intention in this world of helping, dismissing them as Pisanos.

The target of America's losing the ability to help its own children in this unpleasant scenario of neglecting and displacing the education of American children to accommodate another group of cultures' kids is not fair. They're our country's children getting sidelined to make good things happen for people are ambitious to extract any benefit from another culture than their own irresponsibilie one that doesn't even allow certain classes to get educations.

For a party that claims it's the only one who can help working people, they're not taking care of American teachers burdened with this unnecessary double load. You're not seeing it from America's viewpoints.

So may I make a suggestion for you to pass up to your leadership? Please stop the political rancor against Republicans and the President over the border issue, that their position puts America's finest in hardship, and support the building of the wall without further adieu.

Please encourage your DNC Party leaders to help the teachers. Well, that's all I know on the subject. Goodnight. It's past my bedtime, but I saw your post later and am hoping you will appeal to your political community to do some budgetary rearrangement of using campaign money to destroy people, and channel it to helping these kids without causing them unhappiness.

We need the wall. We're on a no-win situation course the average bird parent has when a cuckoo places its eggs in their nest so she won't have to work.

 

[Thinker101]

At this point, I think republican voters and the GOP just want to feel like they have accomplished something. It’s less to do with the wall and more saving face.

I mean you really have to appreciate how bizarre Trump and the GOP are pushing for this useless border wall. This is being fueled by desperation at this point. The symbolism of accomplishment of the policy is really all that matters. The rest of the world is laughing at us in the meantime. Canada probably wants to build a wall to keep us out at this point and I wouldn’t blame them.

The wall will never be built for various reasons even after funding for it would
be secured, but let’s pretend it miraculously does get built. Then what? Is this really all the GOP has to offer? Do their voters just expect them to achieve nothing after this?

Say what you want about democrats, but at least they have a variety of policy ideas to consider. That’s just the nature of progressive policy.

What's incredible is how the liberal loons are only concerned about the illegals.

 

[dcbl]

here's the thing that NOBODY is talking about

we have what? 5 days until federal workers that are furloughed can be permanently laid off without having to go through the near impossible task of actually firing them? (is there a thread on this?)

things are about to get really interesting...

 

[basquebromance]

its called death. we dont want people to die. heck, we dont want ourselves to die. Trump doesnt want Barron to get killed by an illegal, thats why he wants a wall. do you want your son to die?

 

[JGalt]

here's the thing that NOBODY is talking about

we have what? 5 days until federal workers that are furloughed can be permanently laid off without having to go through the near impossible task of actually firing them? (is there a thread on this?)

things are about to get really interesting...

They can all go get other jobs, thanks to President Trump's magnificent economy.

 

[JBvM]

Trump is losing support

um hmm

after he cost the GOP the US House with unprecedented losses

you're not big on history & historical trends eh?

3rd time in the last 100 years the party that holds the WH actually gained seats in the Senate

and he lost less seats in the House than either Clinton or Obama; but keep telling yourself whatever you need to help you sleep at night

you're missing the totality of it, but that's okay.

2020 will be like 2012 all over again, with Wingnuts being shocked, shocked, shocked!

 

[JBvM]

Trump is losing support

um hmm

after he cost the GOP the US House with unprecedented losses

you're not big on history & historical trends eh?

3rd time in the last 100 years the party that holds the WH actually gained seats in the Senate

and he lost less seats in the House than either Clinton or Obama; but keep telling yourself whatever you need to help you sleep at night

you're missing the totality of it, but that's okay.

2020 will be like 2012 all over again, with Wingnuts being shocked, shocked, shocked!

JGalt

do remember Karl Rove having a mental breakdown live on FOX?

 

[dcbl]

41.3% approval rating among polls of likely or registered voters. Not bad really, when you consider that Obama's approval rating was only 47.6% approval at the same point in time, and he had the full support of just about every media organization propping him up.

Of course your medicine tastes nasty, little child. But you're going to take it anyway, whether you like or not.

pretty amazing really

especially with the full power of the media engaged in bringing the Bad Orange man down...

and, as has already been pointed out, the MOE in the polling is likely in Trump's favor on this...

 

[JGalt]

Trump is losing support

um hmm

after he cost the GOP the US House with unprecedented losses

you're not big on history & historical trends eh?

3rd time in the last 100 years the party that holds the WH actually gained seats in the Senate

and he lost less seats in the House than either Clinton or Obama; but keep telling yourself whatever you need to help you sleep at night

you're missing the totality of it, but that's okay.

2020 will be like 2012 all over again, with Wingnuts being shocked, shocked, shocked!

JGalt

do remember Karl Rove having a mental breakdown live on FOX?

Nope. But I do remember alot of this the night Trump was elected. It made me smile.

 

[JBvM]

too bad JG, too bad.

but instead of a rerun, come 2020 you'll get to see a remake

 

[Billy000]

The tax cuts were 1,000,000 times more important than getting a wall built, jackass.

wasn't that done? didn't we get two supreme court judges? wow, where has this dude been?

Well you really only earned one of those because Obama’s pick after Scalia was illegally blocked. Of course, I don’t expect you to care about that. You only care if constitutional law benefits you.

Are you guys still trying to pretend it was illegal for the Senate to exercise it’s check on a Supreme Court picky?

Are you pretending is was legal?

The Constitution says the President nominates & the Senate votes.

Your cheating party of anti-Amnerican jackasses pissed on that Constitution and refused to vote..

Actually the constitution doesn’t say that at all. The constitution says the senate advises and consents to judicial nominees. The senate determines what that means.

The senate said no. It’s their constitutional right to do so.

What the **** are you even trying to say? It was McConnell and only McConnell who blocked the vote from happening. Are you suggesting that McConnell has that absolute power?

 

[easyt65]

Hoyer says border walls 'obviously' work, rejects Pelosi's suggestion that barrier is 'immorality'

"House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer, D-Md., acknowledged Wednesday on Fox News' "Special Report with Bret Baier" that border walls "obviously" work in some areas, and he rejected suggestions that barriers should be removed where they already exist."

The No. 2 House Democrat additionally asserted that the question of whether to fund President Trump's proposed border wall -- a dispute at the center of the unprecedented partial federal government shutdown -- is "not an issue of morality."

Hoyer's comments were seemingly at odds with the positions of other House Democrats, who have argued that border walls like the one Trump is proposing are ineffective and immoral."

Even Democrats think Pelosi is full of crap...


.

 

[Lakhota]

Duh, didn't you leave out the context from your Fox News spin?

 

[shockedcanadian]

Hoyer says border walls 'obviously' work, rejects Pelosi's suggestion that barrier is 'immorality'

"House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer, D-Md., acknowledged Wednesday on Fox News' "Special Report with Bret Baier" that border walls "obviously" work in some areas, and he rejected suggestions that barriers should be removed where they already exist."

The No. 2 House Democrat additionally asserted that the question of whether to fund President Trump's proposed border wall -- a dispute at the center of the unprecedented partial federal government shutdown -- is "not an issue of morality."

Hoyer's comments were seemingly at odds with the positions of other House Democrats, who have argued that border walls like the one Trump is proposing are ineffective and immoral."

Even Democrats think Pelosi is full of crap...


.

I think when people deny facts that are so obvious it really weakens the overall argument. This is how I personally moved somewhat to the right on Abortion, I couldn't deny the reality that many humans that could have been born have not. I'm still pro-choice, but I'm more concerned about the idea of when an egg is now a child, before I just accepted the general mantra pushed in Canada.

It's the same with healthcare and even guns. You don't have to agree with the solution, Lord knows that I understand how horrific socialized healthcare can be and what it means for the overall ownership of you by the state and your lack of individual freedom (they bestow upon you liberty or not as they please). All understand how important it is to have proper healthcare options.

When I think of that stock attachment to the gun that made a weapon fully automatic, and thus circumventing the law I had to consider the argument against it being available. Many reasonable people can see the concern for such an attachment.

So, clearly a wall works. Even if it deters people from coming in the first place, especially kids. When you know you're not going to be able to just sneak over and your kid can't climb a 30 foot fence, you won't even attempt the trek. How many will not be victimized by crime along the way due to not even trying to enter illegally?

I really think this is the political battle that is a horrible one to fight. It's such a pressing issue that without Trumps stance on it in 2016 there is no way he wins. There were other factors of course, but this along with trade deals and confronting China was huge.