August West
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You` correct about the LGBTs. He saved his abuse for our POWs and generals because he`s a classy guy. Did that give you a laugh too?
Obama’s Protections for L.G.B.T. Workers Will Remain Under Trump
- Thread starter guno
- Start date
No, he heaped scorn on mccain, and rightfully so based on his Keating 5 issues. Just because a guy is a general officer doesn't make him competent. obummer had several promoted due to politics, same as clinton. There are a goodly percentage of generals who got their stars because they were politically connected. They deserve scorn as well if their actions warrant it.
August West
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He heaped scorn on all POWs. Trump supporters spit on our POWs on Nov. 8 and it`s unlikely that Trump ever heard the name Keating. "obummer"? I assumed you were beyond Jr. High but I was wrong. Keating 5 ?ROFLMAO! As a reminder "I like people who weren`t captured".
Trump attacks McCain: 'I like people who weren't captured'
No, he didn't. He merely stated that he didn't consider POW's to be "hero's" and I agree with him. Some did heroic acts while they were POW's, but mccain wasn't one of them. That's the problem with the word "hero". When you're a "hero" merely for participating it decreases the actual sacrifice and heroism of those who truly DO do heroic acts.
DrainBamage
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As westwall pointed out, the term is subjective so there really isn't an absolute right or wrong.
To me someone who risks their life to serve their country and survives five years of POW imprisonment with courage and dignity is a hero. Dude actually turned down an offer of early release given his father's status but refused it demanding those captured before him were released first.
To me someone who risks their life to serve their country and survives five years of POW imprisonment with courage and dignity is a hero. Dude actually turned down an offer of early release given his father's status but refused it demanding those captured before him were released first.
Almost all POW's were offered early release. But there was a catch to it. At least he had enough sense to say no to the offer. Had he said yes he would have been finished as a Naval Officer and his political career would have never begun.
3) John was offered, and refused, "early release." Many of us were given this offer. It meant speaking out against your country and lying about your treatment to the press. You had to "admit" that the U.S. was criminal and that our treatment was "lenient and humane." So I, like numerous others, refused the offer. This was obviously something none of us could accept. Besides, we were bound by our service regulations, Geneva Conventions and loyalties to refuse early release until all the POW's were released, with the sick and wounded going first.
I Spent Years as a POW with John McCain, and His Finger Should Not Be Near the Red Button
OffensivelyOpenMinded
Gold Member
- Banned
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Try harder, nobody believes leftists respect the military in the slightest.
OffensivelyOpenMinded
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No, only retards simplify it the way dumbasses like you do.
ChrisL
Diamond Member
I do consider our POWs to be heroes. I really kind of consider anyone who joins the military (for the right reasons) to be kind of a hero actually.
EverCurious
Gold Member
Might want to rethink that idea. Realize that the Ft. Lauderdale shooter fought ISIS. Sometimes they break... their minds just snap. Not putting down fault per say here, but the reality is that at that point they start doing things that are not at all heroic. I think blindly considering them "heroes" actually lessens the honor of such titles.
I have a ton of respect for the military, grew up in it, been around it my whole life, still don't blindly think them heroes. I know people who lost limbs in Vietnam internment camps, they don't want to be heroes, they just want their life go to back to "normal." McCain doesn't impress me at all; he uses his POW status for political gain, a tawdry trade of honor for votes, I consider that a sell out - and especially given the particulars of what his brothers say they think of him. I personally don't think you can, or should be considered a hero when those who fought at your side say you're a traitor... Kind of nullifies the opinions of the public who were not there ya know.
I have a ton of respect for the military, grew up in it, been around it my whole life, still don't blindly think them heroes. I know people who lost limbs in Vietnam internment camps, they don't want to be heroes, they just want their life go to back to "normal." McCain doesn't impress me at all; he uses his POW status for political gain, a tawdry trade of honor for votes, I consider that a sell out - and especially given the particulars of what his brothers say they think of him. I personally don't think you can, or should be considered a hero when those who fought at your side say you're a traitor... Kind of nullifies the opinions of the public who were not there ya know.
While being a POW sucks on an epic scale it is not heroic. Heroism is where you KNOWINGLY place your life at grave risk to either save a comrade, or attack a enemy strongpoint knowing that you are probably going to die in the attempt. THAT is heroism. Enduring torture in extreme cases is also heroic. This is the citation for Admiral Stockdales MOH. THIS is a hero...
"For conspicuous gallantry and intrepidity at the risk of his life above and beyond the call of duty while senior naval officer in the Prisoner of War camps of North Vietnam. Recognized by his captors as the leader in the Prisoners' of War resistance to interrogation and in their refusal to participate in propaganda exploitation, Rear Adm. Stockdale was singled out for interrogation and attendant torture after he was detected in a covert communications attempt. Sensing the start of another purge, and aware that his earlier efforts at self-disfiguration to dissuade his captors from exploiting him for propaganda purposes had resulted in cruel and agonizing punishment, Rear Adm. Stockdale resolved to make himself a symbol of resistance regardless of personal sacrifice. He deliberately inflicted a near-mortal wound to his person in order to convince his captors of his willingness to give up his life rather than capitulate. He was subsequently discovered and revived by the North Vietnamese who, convinced of his indomitable spirit, abated in their employment of excessive harassment and torture toward all of the Prisoners of War. By his heroic action, at great peril to himself, he earned the everlasting gratitude of his fellow prisoners and of his country. Rear Adm. Stockdale's valiant leadership and extraordinary courage in a hostile environment sustain and enhance the finest traditions of the U.S. Naval Service."
ChrisL
Diamond Member
You said, "Heroism is where you KNOWINGLY place your life at grave risk to either save a comrade, or attack a enemy strongpoint knowing that you are probably going to die in the attempt. THAT is heroism. Enduring torture in extreme cases is also heroic."
Isn't that what you do when you are in the military though? John McCain was also tortured for information and stuff, no? Isn't that why his arms are all messed up?
DrainBamage
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Hmm the system appears to have glitched on my reply, I'll try again:
Putting unquantifiable modifiers like "extreme" in front of the word torture as some yardstick seems equally absurd to me.
I agree. While I believe the concept of hero is subjective I find it ridiculous that someone who has never even served their country can so easily dismisses McCain's dozens of combat missions over North Vietnam, torture while a POW, and refusal of an early release when offered as less than heroic.
Putting unquantifiable modifiers like "extreme" in front of the word torture as some yardstick seems equally absurd to me.
No. The majority of time in the military you are merely doing your job. Even in battle the odds are you won't die. Heck the odds are you won't even get wounded. It is only recently that disease stopped being the primary cause of death for servicemen and women.
EverCurious
Gold Member
I can only go by the opinion of the men who were beside him. When they have an unfavorable opinion, it's very hard for me to blindly discount /their/ opinions and blindly say he's a hero.
Either way though, Trump backed off - probably because it's a gray area that's really not worth fighting about. Most folks could get away with that position with a "well that's not exactly how I meant that" but the media and left hate him so they're going to hammer it until the end of time. ~shrug~
Either way though, Trump backed off - probably because it's a gray area that's really not worth fighting about. Most folks could get away with that position with a "well that's not exactly how I meant that" but the media and left hate him so they're going to hammer it until the end of time. ~shrug~
ChrisL
Diamond Member
So, the guys who stormed the beaches in Normandy aren't worthy of the title of "hero?" If a person had joined the military during war times, then that person is definitely a hero in my book. Even if the odds are that you wouldn't die in battle, you are still agreeing to go into battle if need be when you join the military. I sure do admire those who are brave to make the ultimate sacrifice for their country.
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