Obama's budget is a nervous breakdown on paper

[saveliberty]

ilia just thinks Greece should borrow more money. Never mind they have to borrow money just to pay back the debt itself. Greecian retirees took a 25% decrease in pension, only to be followed by a 20% one just last week. Clearly a more modest cut very early on in the process could have prevented a lot of the damage. Of Course, that runs counter to Keynes. I understand why ilia doesn't like Austrian economics. It is based on rational players.

 

[FA_Q2]

I am not expecting anything -- I am just saying that a lot could change in 30 years. So it would be premature to fix now the fiscal problems that are projected 30 years down the road.

And that is asinine. It is projected to become a disaster 30 years down the road, a disaster that cannot be adverted last minute.

We still can wait 10 years -- 20 years is hardly last minute.

The problem comes in that people have had that scenario for decades and yet it has yet to actually happen. You can tout the stimulus all you want but the fact remains that there are debts as far as the eye can see and they are not simple existing debt but rather continual deficits building year after year after year. If I could believe that what you are purposing could actually happen, then there is a possibility that I could agree with you but the fact is that history is showing us that our future selves are no more likely to want to pay the inevitable prices that have to be paid than our current selves. 10 years from now, people will say the EXACT same thing you are saying now. We must continue to spend to and help the economy all whilst selling out the future. At some point, we will HAVE to pay and the sooner we get into that mode the better (and cheaper) the bill is going to be. Smaller moves today will make for bigger returns tomorrow.

If we continue on this path though, there is going to be nothing left.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

And that is asinine. It is projected to become a disaster 30 years down the road, a disaster that cannot be adverted last minute.

We still can wait 10 years -- 20 years is hardly last minute.

The problem comes in that people have had that scenario for decades and yet it has yet to actually happen. You can tout the stimulus all you want but the fact remains that there are debts as far as the eye can see and they are not simple existing debt but rather continual deficits building year after year after year. If I could believe that what you are purposing could actually happen, then there is a possibility that I could agree with you but the fact is that history is showing us that our future selves are no more likely to want to pay the inevitable prices that have to be paid than our current selves. 10 years from now, people will say the EXACT same thing you are saying now. We must continue to spend to and help the economy all whilst selling out the future. At some point, we will HAVE to pay and the sooner we get into that mode the better (and cheaper) the bill is going to be. Smaller moves today will make for bigger returns tomorrow.

If we continue on this path though, there is going to be nothing left.

Ain't that the truth. We have had this problem for decades, and we will always have people like ilia around to say we can wait a bit longer. I won't support anyone who is not willing to stand up and say we need to deal with this now, and that does not include Obama.

 

[saveliberty]

Waiting around? These idiots have the petal to the metal.

 

[ilia25]

And that is asinine. It is projected to become a disaster 30 years down the road, a disaster that cannot be adverted last minute.

We still can wait 10 years -- 20 years is hardly last minute.

The problem comes in that people have had that scenario for decades and yet it has yet to actually happen.

Yes, having a disaster projection 30 years down the road, -- we can happily live with that forever.

You can tout the stimulus all you want but the fact remains that there are debts as far as the eye can see and they are not simple existing debt but rather continual deficits building year after year after year.

Yes, and we have the economy expanding year after year after year too. That is why we could afford to have deficits and exponential growth of debt in the past 200 years, thank you very much.

10 years from now, people will say the EXACT same thing you are saying now. We must continue to spend to and help the economy all whilst selling out the future.

No, we won't be saying the exact things because we do not expect the economy to be in a depression 10 years from now. And, therefore, we won't need any fiscal stimulus because the economy will not need any help.

 

[saveliberty]

We still can wait 10 years -- 20 years is hardly last minute.

The problem comes in that people have had that scenario for decades and yet it has yet to actually happen.

Yes, having a disaster projection 30 years down the road, -- we can happily live with that forever.

You can tout the stimulus all you want but the fact remains that there are debts as far as the eye can see and they are not simple existing debt but rather continual deficits building year after year after year.

Yes, and we have the economy expanding year after year after year too. That is why we could afford to have deficits and exponential growth of debt in the past 200 years, thank you very much.

10 years from now, people will say the EXACT same thing you are saying now. We must continue to spend to and help the economy all whilst selling out the future.

No, we won't be saying the exact things because we do not expect the economy to be in a depression 10 years from now. And, therefore, we won't need any fiscal stimulus because the economy will not need any help.

Oh yes, because all that monetary expansion over the last several years could NEVER bring inflation back. Course, if it did, the economy would contract.

 

[ilia25]

Oh yes, because all that monetary expansion over the last several years could NEVER bring inflation back.

What inflation are you talking about, you silly thing?

 

[saveliberty]

Oh yes, because all that monetary expansion over the last several years could NEVER bring inflation back.

What inflation are you talking about, you silly thing?

What part of bring inflation back is causing you a comprehension problem? Oh, and inflation is understated in case you haven't noticed.

 

[ilia25]

Oh yes, because all that monetary expansion over the last several years could NEVER bring inflation back.

What inflation are you talking about, you silly thing?

What part of bring inflation back is causing you a comprehension problem?

Where we are supposed to bring the inflation back to? It has been staying at the same level for the past 20+ years!

 

[saveliberty]

What inflation are you talking about, you silly thing?

What part of bring inflation back is causing you a comprehension problem?

Where we are supposed to bring the inflation back to? It has been staying at the same level for the past 20+ years!

Being a Keynesian I'm sure you think that is sustainable. The rest of us realize that the fed rate is not sustainable and interest rates will accelerate. Combined with inflation it will be bad news. You actually looked at gas and food? Your total denial of inflation is laughable.

 

[ilia25]

What part of bring inflation back is causing you a comprehension problem?

Where we are supposed to bring the inflation back to? It has been staying at the same level for the past 20+ years!

Being a Keynesian I'm sure you think that is sustainable. The rest of us realize that the fed rate is not sustainable and interest rates will accelerate.

That will happen AFTER the economy is completely recovered and is booming again. Same is true for inflation -- until there is lot of unemployed people willing to work for less pay, inflation will remain low.

 

[saveliberty]

Where we are supposed to bring the inflation back to? It has been staying at the same level for the past 20+ years!

Being a Keynesian I'm sure you think that is sustainable. The rest of us realize that the fed rate is not sustainable and interest rates will accelerate.

That will happen AFTER the economy is completely recovered and is booming again. Same is true for inflation -- until there is lot of unemployed people willing to work for less pay, inflation will remain low.

No, monetary policy can trigger inflation too. Also, food and gas prices can cause inflation too. Actually there are multiple inflation pressures at work this very moment.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Oh yes, because all that monetary expansion over the last several years could NEVER bring inflation back.

What inflation are you talking about, you silly thing?

Right here.

In case you are wondering what you are looking at, the red line is the average of the S&P divided by the cost of a gallon of gas, the blue line is tracking the price of a gallon of gas. Prices of commodities are going up, and the return on investments is going down. That, despite all the numbers that indicate otherwise, is inflation.

 

[saveliberty]

QW, your a killjoy. lol

You can get a similiar graph with food prices, though a bit more muted.

 

[ilia25]

Oh yes, because all that monetary expansion over the last several years could NEVER bring inflation back.

What inflation are you talking about, you silly thing?

Right here.

In case you are wondering what you are looking at, the red line is the average of the S&P divided by the cost of a gallon of gas, the blue line is tracking the price of a gallon of gas. Prices of commodities are going up, and the return on investments is going down. That, despite all the numbers that indicate otherwise, is inflation.

There are always things that get more expensive, while others get cheaper. What matters is the overall inflation.

 

[saveliberty]

What inflation are you talking about, you silly thing?

Right here.

In case you are wondering what you are looking at, the red line is the average of the S&P divided by the cost of a gallon of gas, the blue line is tracking the price of a gallon of gas. Prices of commodities are going up, and the return on investments is going down. That, despite all the numbers that indicate otherwise, is inflation.

There are always things that get more expensive, while others get cheaper. What matters is the overall inflation.

Go ahead ignore the effects of gas on overall price increases.

You realize they substitute kerocene for gas when that happens right?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

QW, your a killjoy. lol

You can get a similiar graph with food prices, though a bit more muted.

The one for wheat is pretty telling.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

What inflation are you talking about, you silly thing?

Right here.

In case you are wondering what you are looking at, the red line is the average of the S&P divided by the cost of a gallon of gas, the blue line is tracking the price of a gallon of gas. Prices of commodities are going up, and the return on investments is going down. That, despite all the numbers that indicate otherwise, is inflation.

There are always things that get more expensive, while others get cheaper. What matters is the overall inflation.

If Keynes was actually correct then the only thing keeping us put of inflation is the fact that we are in a recession.

 

[ilia25]

Right here.

In case you are wondering what you are looking at, the red line is the average of the S&P divided by the cost of a gallon of gas, the blue line is tracking the price of a gallon of gas. Prices of commodities are going up, and the return on investments is going down. That, despite all the numbers that indicate otherwise, is inflation.

There are always things that get more expensive, while others get cheaper. What matters is the overall inflation.

Go ahead ignore the effects of gas on overall price increases.

I just posted you a chart that shows the overall price increases -- and they are increasing no faster than in the past 20 years.

 

[Full-Auto]

We still can wait 10 years -- 20 years is hardly last minute.

The problem comes in that people have had that scenario for decades and yet it has yet to actually happen. You can tout the stimulus all you want but the fact remains that there are debts as far as the eye can see and they are not simple existing debt but rather continual deficits building year after year after year. If I could believe that what you are purposing could actually happen, then there is a possibility that I could agree with you but the fact is that history is showing us that our future selves are no more likely to want to pay the inevitable prices that have to be paid than our current selves. 10 years from now, people will say the EXACT same thing you are saying now. We must continue to spend to and help the economy all whilst selling out the future. At some point, we will HAVE to pay and the sooner we get into that mode the better (and cheaper) the bill is going to be. Smaller moves today will make for bigger returns tomorrow.

If we continue on this path though, there is going to be nothing left.

Ain't that the truth. We have had this problem for decades, and we will always have people like ilia around to say we can wait a bit longer. I won't support anyone who is not willing to stand up and say we need to deal with this now, and that does not include Obama.

hear hear!!