ObamaCare - $700 - $1,000 FINE for the little guy?

[WillowTree]

Nice that you spin the story into the Twilight Zone.

For those mandated to buy insurance that cannot afford it the feds will help you pay for it.

It's in the Bill that the IRS can't prosecute or otherwise enforce the "penalty."

The feds my ass, the 50% of us who pay Federal Income tax will pay for it. dumbass.

 

[boedicca]

And to add further injury to injury, even if one pays for insurance or the penalty, there will be less and less doctors and hospitals to provide services as the IPAB makes being in the business of medicine increasingly unprofitable.

 

[WillowTree]

I think ObamaCare works on a number of levels.

I'm a supporter of the individual mandate, have been supporting it since Republicans put it forward 20 years ago.

When Gov. Romney said a week or so ago that uninsured people can go to the emergency room for care, that made me scratch my head because we all know that's the most expensive way to deal with this problem. Why would we want to go back to that?

The costs of uninsured folks to insured folks can be felt on a number of levels. With the mandate, tens of millions of people will be forced to take responsibility for themselves. Now, some of the people in that pool will be people that my taxpayer money will be going to, but answer me this: Doesn't it save me money to have some of my pocket change going to insurance policies rather than the huge bills that uninsured folks rack up on the backs of hospitals and the rest of us?

I think the next step is to divorce employers from individual healthcare coverage of employees altogether. A person's healthcare should be their own thing, and it benefits someone's life directly to make sure they're insured even if they're in between jobs.

we'll stay out of your womb if you'll stay the hell out of our wallets.

 

[2ndAmendment]

Really? Disguised as a tax?

Those who aren't blessed enough to have health insurance will be MANDATED to purchase it OR face a yearly fine of $700 - $1,000 FINE? (Collectable by the 10,000 new IRS agents hired?)

Is that true? So I heard.

PS -- funny when the muslim-in-chief said that everyone would have insurance. Oh, OK -- they are forced to buy it at the price of a new car or face a fine by the IRS? And we know the IRS is the pitbull of collectors.

Well, maybe new jobs will be created to build extra federal prison space for those who don't pay the new fine/tax.

Pitiful.

Just remember it was the fucking democrats who did it to you,, and go vote for Mitt Romney.

Of course I'm voting for Romney!! Doesn't my avatar say that? lol

Fortunately, we have great insurance which we haven't had to use .... my beef is that Obama thinks he can FORCE people to buy a product OR be punished. Blows my mind, the communism of it all.

I was without insurance in college and thankfully never needed it. If this BS was imposed on me then, I would have sunk with an extra huge monthly bill.

 

[2ndAmendment]

And to add further injury to injury, even if one pays for insurance or the penalty, there will be less and less doctors and hospitals to provide services as the IPAB makes being in the business of medicine increasingly unprofitable.

There's so much talk of that. Many doctors are getting out while the getting's good. Sad for their patients but a harsh reality.

 

[Greenbeard]

Medicaid serves low-income parents, children, seniors, and people with disabilities. Period.

Those are the traditional eligibility groups. There's now a new one, best described as "everyone else, under 138% of the poverty line."

 

[2ndAmendment]

Medicaid serves low-income parents, children, seniors, and people with disabilities. Period.

Those are the traditional eligibility groups. There's now a new one, best described as "everyone else, under 138% of the poverty line."

If you're not joking, care to link that? Maybe you know more than google and the Medicaid sites I just read today.

BTW - yes, there is a new category - women with breast cancer.

 

[beagle9]

So, the government really thinks that someone making $11,171 per YEAR has ANY extra funds to pay for monthly mandated insurance - on some sliding scale? Really?

I'm puzzled because I feel like I'm being very clear and yet you're not getting this. Someone making $11,171 would not have to go buy private insurance.

Well how about someone making 12,000 dollars a year then, will they have to go buy an insurance policy, and if so, then how much will that policy cover and how much will it cost them per week ?

Please answer, as it is important to be clear on these things... How is it that Obama ends up attacking the poor with these changes or demands for something they can't afford, but ran a campaign on the fact that he was for the poor and down troddin in life ?

 

[Greenbeard]

Medicaid serves low-income parents, children, seniors, and people with disabilities. Period.

Those are the traditional eligibility groups. There's now a new one, best described as "everyone else, under 138% of the poverty line."

If you're not joking, care to link that? Maybe you know more than google and the Medicaid sites I just read today.

This is now federal law, courtesy of the Affordable Care Act.

(a) Contents
A State plan for medical assistance [Medicaid] must—
[...]

(10) provide—

(A) for making medical assistance available ... to—
[...]

(i) all individuals—
[...]

(VIII) beginning January 1, 2014, who are under 65 years of age, not pregnant, not entitled to, or enrolled for, benefits under part A of subchapter XVIII, or enrolled for benefits under part B of subchapter XVIII, and are not described in a previous subclause of this clause, and whose income (as determined under subsection (e)(14)) does not exceed 133 percent of the poverty line​

Add in the 5 percent income disregard also in the law and you find that you have a big new catch-all eligibility category for everyone under 138% FPL who didn't fit into Medicaid before.

A more use friendly overview: How will the Medicaid Expansion for Adults Impact Eligibility and Coverage?

Well how about someone making 12,000 dollars a year then, will they have to go buy an insurance policy, and if so, then how much will that policy cover and how much will it cost them per week ?

Under the 2012 poverty thresholds, a single person making $12,000 is at 1.07 times the poverty level. They would therefore qualify for Medicaid under Obamacare. No need to buy private insurance.

 

[daveman]

I think ObamaCare works on a number of levels.

I'm a supporter of the individual mandate, have been supporting it since Republicans put it forward 20 years ago.

When Gov. Romney said a week or so ago that uninsured people can go to the emergency room for care, that made me scratch my head because we all know that's the most expensive way to deal with this problem. Why would we want to go back to that?

The costs of uninsured folks to insured folks can be felt on a number of levels. With the mandate, tens of millions of people will be forced to take responsibility for themselves. Now, some of the people in that pool will be people that my taxpayer money will be going to, but answer me this: Doesn't it save me money to have some of my pocket change going to insurance policies rather than the huge bills that uninsured folks rack up on the backs of hospitals and the rest of us?

I think the next step is to divorce employers from individual healthcare coverage of employees altogether. A person's healthcare should be their own thing, and it benefits someone's life directly to make sure they're insured even if they're in between jobs.

The first step is to allow doctors and hospitals to decide if they want to give treatment to people that can't afford it (via their bank account or insurance). We don't force farmers to give away food for free, we don't force lawyers to give away legal advice for free, so why do we force doctors/hospitals to give away their services for free?
No where in the US constitution does it say that a person can be forced to give the fruits of their labor for free.
No where in the US constitution does it say the government can force people to engage in commerce.
No where in the US constitution does it say that medical care is a right.

See, that's the thing. You're looking at the US Constitution, not the Leftist Constitution. You know, the one that says only "If leftists want it, it's a right."

 

[beagle9]

Those are the traditional eligibility groups. There's now a new one, best described as "everyone else, under 138% of the poverty line."

If you're not joking, care to link that? Maybe you know more than google and the Medicaid sites I just read today.

This is now federal law, courtesy of the Affordable Care Act.

(a) Contents
A State plan for medical assistance [Medicaid] must—
[...]

(10) provide—

(A) for making medical assistance available ... to—
[...]

(i) all individuals—
[...]

(VIII) beginning January 1, 2014, who are under 65 years of age, not pregnant, not entitled to, or enrolled for, benefits under part A of subchapter XVIII, or enrolled for benefits under part B of subchapter XVIII, and are not described in a previous subclause of this clause, and whose income (as determined under subsection (e)(14)) does not exceed 133 percent of the poverty line​

Add in the 5 percent income disregard also in the law and you find that you have a big new catch-all eligibility category for everyone under 138% FPL who didn't fit into Medicaid before.

A more use friendly overview: How will the Medicaid Expansion for Adults Impact Eligibility and Coverage?

Well how about someone making 12,000 dollars a year then, will they have to go buy an insurance policy, and if so, then how much will that policy cover and how much will it cost them per week ?

Under the 2012 poverty thresholds, a single person making $12,000 is at 1.07 times the poverty level. They would therefore qualify for Medicaid under Obamacare. No need to buy private insurance.

Ok, then what income does one have to have in order to have to buy the insurance plan that Obama says he will therefore fine them for if they don't get a plan ? Then what kind of plan will they be getting at the point of a gun pointed at them by the federal government ?

 

[Care4all]

Care4all - someone has been feeding you some bull about Medicaid.


Medicaid serves low-income parents, children, seniors, and people with disabilities. Period.

That excludes millions and millions who Obama wants to force into monthly payments or fines, penalties and no tax refunds.

Read up!

It is YOU who needs to read up dear.....it's truly not hard, I'm certain you can do it!

 

[Greenbeard]

Ok, then what income does one have to have in order to have to buy the insurance plan that Obama says he will therefore fine them for if they don't get a plan ? Then what kind of plan will they be getting at the point of a gun pointed at them by the federal government ?

They're required to buy private insurance when their income is above the expanded Medicaid eligibility thresholds, which (in current dollars) for a single person is about $15,500 dollars. At that point they have to put about 3.3% of their income toward premiums (which is about $43 dollars per month). They don't pay any more than that.

That entitles them to the essential health benefits package. What that means will vary from state to state because that benefit package isn't defined at the federal level, states determine it. What the law guarantees them access to is a benefits package that covers broad areas:

• Ambulatory patient services
• Emergency services
• Hospitalization
• Maternity and newborn care
• Mental health and substance use disorder services, including behavioral health treatment
• Prescription drugs
• Rehabilitative and habilitative services and devices
• Laboratory services
• Preventive and wellness services and chronic disease management
• Pediatric services, including oral and vision care.

That's what they get for their $43 dollars a month.

 

[beagle9]

The benefits package isn't defined at the federal level (this is where they jump off), and so it is defiend at the state level eh? So the states just need the feds to hold the gun to our heads for them, while they rape we the citizens pockets for policies that won't be what they are claimed to be for this amount of money (just like these things have always gone in the end), where as it will be where the rubber meets the pavement or road finally, and tires will be blowing out everywhere as a result of this idea, and so just you wait and see, and I will probably be able to tell you that I told you so in a few years or more afterwards.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

Really? Disguised as a tax?

Those who aren't blessed enough to have health insurance will be MANDATED to purchase it OR face a yearly fine of $700 - $1,000 FINE? (Collectable by the 10,000 new IRS agents hired?)

Is that true? So I heard.

PS -- funny when the muslim-in-chief said that everyone would have insurance. Oh, OK -- they are forced to buy it at the price of a new car or face a fine by the IRS? And we know the IRS is the pitbull of collectors.

Well, maybe new jobs will be created to build extra federal prison space for those who don't pay the new fine/tax.

Pitiful.

Those who aren't able to afford it get tax credits to pay for it.

Fuck you're dumb. Did you read anything about the bill that didn't come off of a right wing blog?

 

[dblack]

Those who aren't able to afford it get tax credits to pay for it.

And who decides if I can't afford it? Me? ... I didn't think so.

Again, it seems like the overriding purpose of this law is to funnel as much taxpayer money to the insurance industry as possible. We'll either pay them directly, or indirectly through fines and 'tax credits'.

Fuck you're dumb. ...

 

[beagle9]

Those who aren't able to afford it get tax credits to pay for it. Did you read anything about the bill that didn't come off of a right wing blog?

Oh yeah, and so where does the money come from to pay for (these tax credits or way out of it for those that you speak of), Oh and how many of them that will need this government assistance will there be or are there in numbers strong right now ? Will this be another incentive to not work, so medical can be paid for in full by government, along with all the other incentives government gives for not working these days ? So what maybe, will there be even higher taxes on the working class maybe or higher premiums even, you know on the ones who pay for everything already (i.e. the working middle class along with the working poor) ?

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

Those who aren't able to afford it get tax credits to pay for it.

And who decides if I can't afford it? Me? ... I didn't think so.

No, you don't get to write the law all by your little self to say whatever it is you'd like it to say, sorry. Hope that doesn't hurt your poor widdle feewings.

Again, it seems like the overriding purpose of this law is to funnel as much taxpayer
money to the insurance industry as possible.

It 'seems' like that to you because you're an idiot who doesn't even know what the law does. You keep asking questions about what the law does when the answers are easily known if you'd bother to do a minimum of homework on the issue. Instead, you'd prefer to use your vast store of emotion to make up for you lack of factual knowledge and just whine, whine, whine, instead.

 

[dblack]

Those who aren't able to afford it get tax credits to pay for it.

And who decides if I can't afford it? Me? ... I didn't think so.

No, you don't get to write the law all by your little self to say whatever it is you'd like it to say, sorry. Hope that doesn't hurt your poor widdle feewings.

Exactly. This law takes away our right to decide for ourselves - on the most personal of decisions. It sacrifices fundamental self-determination in favor of a mandated, corporate "solution". It's authoritarian government at its worst and I'll fight it until it's gone or I'm dead.

Again, it seems like the overriding purpose of this law is to funnel as much taxpayer
money to the insurance industry as possible.

It 'seems' like that to you because you're an idiot who doesn't even know what the law does. You keep asking questions about what the law does when the answers are easily known if you'd bother to do a minimum of homework on the issue. Instead, you'd prefer to use your vast store of emotion to make up for you lack of factual knowledge and just whine, whine, whine, instead.

What have I got wrong, jackass? You keep spouting this line over and over, yet you've failed to cite a single aspect of the law that I've got wrong. Have you read the damn thing? Or are you just on here shilling like a good corporate whore?

 

[4Horsemen]

[2ndAmendment;6131386]Really? Disguised as a tax?

Those who aren't blessed enough to have health insurance will be MANDATED to purchase it OR face a yearly fine of $700 - $1,000 FINE? (Collectable by the 10,000 new IRS agents hired?)

Is that true? So I heard.

PS -- funny when the muslim-in-chief said that everyone would have insurance. Oh, OK -- they are forced to buy it at the price of a new car or face a fine by the IRS? And we know the IRS is the pitbull of collectors.

Well, maybe new jobs will be created to build extra federal prison space for those who don't pay the new fine/tax.

Pitiful.

Those who aren't able to afford it get tax credits to pay for it.

So beggers, squatters and assholes like you get a pass? I don't think so.