New Witness...TRAYVON was beating Zimmerman up!

[uptownlivin90]

After listening to the 911 tapes & eye witness's I believe it was a justifiable shooting. Zimmerman was on his back screaming help so loud it could clearly be heard over the phone inside a home at least 20 times while being beaten by Martin. Martin continued to beat a man that was clearly subdued begging for help.

The mother says that is her son's voice screaming for help.

Of course she does, she's already filed for patents on her son's name and cds, etc. Can't make money if you admit your son's a bully.

Yeup... that does a lot to help the conversation.

 

[uptownlivin90]

And he called for help first. Repeatedly, so it isn't like he just started blazing away.

I mean it might all come out and end up that he did scare this kid so much that the kid felt he had to attack or be killed...the point is, we don't know. It could have been either way. I tend to think if the cops didn't take this guy in right away that they felt he was justified...but cops are notoriously stupid when it comes to making judgement calls, so who knows.

It will eventually come out. In the meantime, it's insane to pretend you know what happened, who is guilty, who is innocent, or to paint this guy as some sort of black-hating Hispanic monster. Let the system work. It has it's problems, but it's still better than hysterical mob rule, which is what the likes of Peach and a few others seem to go for.

no. zimmerman was NOT screaming for help. the kid was.

you clearly didn't hear the 911 tape. you really should listen to it rather than spread rightwingnut propaganda which is intended to turn the man who was hunting a black boy into the victim.

A witness said the guy who was on the bottom with a red sweater was screaming for help.

Another witness said the one who got shot was screaming. Another one said "the guy with the white shirt" was on top beating on someone. Witnesses are so confused in this case.

Plus Zimmy could have been screaming for help... doesn't mean the altercation wasn't his fault in the first place.

 

[Meister]

If Obama doesn't believe this tragedy is a race thing, why doesn't he condemn the Black Panthers with their bounty on Zimmerman. Why doesn't the president tell the American people it's time to tone the rhetoric down and let the LE do their investigation on this matter.
Obama does not have clean hands in this issue.

The NBPP only matters to people on message boards that want to find a reason to make this worse.

There are somewhere between 10 and 20 of them. They've been doing stupid crap like this since the first Bush Administration, I can't ever recall any president actually giving them legitimacy by addressing any of the stupid crap they do. I don't know why any president would. Federal authorities should get involved, however there's little else they can do but investigate because the only reason we know about this bounty is because of the media. One of their top members (the one who actually called for the hit) is already being locked up for a firearms charge.

They're considered a hate group by the SPLC and the US Commission on Civil Rights, those are the people that need to be called on, not Obama. No the NBPP is not in anyway related to the original Black Panther Party of the 1970s or 80s. That group has been defunct and it's leaders have condemned the antics of the NBPP.

Just like them standing out in front of a polling precinct with a baton?
Putting out a bounty on an individual is a crime....at least it used to be. I don't care who put it out, and individual or a Black Panther.

Yes, I know they're not the Eldridge Cleaver's or the H Rap Brown's of the past. But breaking the law is breaking the law....right?

 

[KissMy]

no. zimmerman was NOT screaming for help. the kid was.

you clearly didn't hear the 911 tape. you really should listen to it rather than spread rightwingnut propaganda which is intended to turn the man who was hunting a black boy into the victim.

A witness said the guy who was on the bottom with a red sweater was screaming for help.

Another witness said the one who got shot was screaming. Another one said "the guy with the white shirt" was on top beating on someone. Witnesses are so confused in this case.

Plus Zimmy could have been screaming for help... doesn't mean the altercation wasn't his fault in the first place.

Whether it was Zimmerman's fault or not, Martin was on top of him beating him after he was subdued & yelling for help. That makes the shooting legal.

 

[uptownlivin90]

If Obama doesn't believe this tragedy is a race thing, why doesn't he condemn the Black Panthers with their bounty on Zimmerman. Why doesn't the president tell the American people it's time to tone the rhetoric down and let the LE do their investigation on this matter.
Obama does not have clean hands in this issue.

The NBPP only matters to people on message boards that want to find a reason to make this worse.

There are somewhere between 10 and 20 of them. They've been doing stupid crap like this since the first Bush Administration, I can't ever recall any president actually giving them legitimacy by addressing any of the stupid crap they do. I don't know why any president would. Federal authorities should get involved, however there's little else they can do but investigate because the only reason we know about this bounty is because of the media. One of their top members (the one who actually called for the hit) is already being locked up for a firearms charge.

They're considered a hate group by the SPLC and the US Commission on Civil Rights, those are the people that need to be called on, not Obama. No the NBPP is not in anyway related to the original Black Panther Party of the 1970s or 80s. That group has been defunct and it's leaders have condemned the antics of the NBPP.

Just like them standing out in front of a polling precinct with a baton?
Putting out a bounty on an individual is a crime....at least it used to be. I don't care who put it out, and individual or a Black Panther.

Yes, I know they're not the Eldridge Cleaver's or the H Rap Brown's of the past. But breaking the law is breaking the law....right?

I don't think I'm making myself clear:

I'm not excusing their behavior.

I was addressing why Obama isn't obligated to address the behavior of a couple of nutjobs. And probably shouldn't.

Let the Feds deal with them.

 

[uptownlivin90]

In October, a school police investigator said he saw Trayvon on the school surveillance camera in an unauthorized area “hiding and being suspicious.” Then he said he saw Trayvon mark up a door with “W.T.F” — an acronym for “what the f---.” The officer said he found Trayvon the next day and went through his book bag in search of the graffiti marker.

Instead the officer reported he found women’s jewelry and a screwdriver that he described as a “burglary tool,” according to a Miami-Dade Schools Police report obtained by The Miami Herald. Word of the incident came as the family’s lawyer acknowledged that the boy was suspended in February for getting caught with an empty bag with traces of marijuana, which he called “irrelevant” and an attempt to demonize a victim.

Read more here: Multiple suspensions paint complicated portrait of Trayvon Martin - Florida - MiamiHerald.com

The case just died. There will be no petit jury.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

The NBPP only matters to people on message boards that want to find a reason to make this worse.

There are somewhere between 10 and 20 of them. They've been doing stupid crap like this since the first Bush Administration, I can't ever recall any president actually giving them legitimacy by addressing any of the stupid crap they do. I don't know why any president would. Federal authorities should get involved, however there's little else they can do but investigate because the only reason we know about this bounty is because of the media. One of their top members (the one who actually called for the hit) is already being locked up for a firearms charge.

They're considered a hate group by the SPLC and the US Commission on Civil Rights, those are the people that need to be called on, not Obama. No the NBPP is not in anyway related to the original Black Panther Party of the 1970s or 80s. That group has been defunct and it's leaders have condemned the antics of the NBPP.

Just like them standing out in front of a polling precinct with a baton?
Putting out a bounty on an individual is a crime....at least it used to be. I don't care who put it out, and individual or a Black Panther.

Yes, I know they're not the Eldridge Cleaver's or the H Rap Brown's of the past. But breaking the law is breaking the law....right?

I don't think I'm making myself clear:

I'm not excusing their behavior.

I was addressing why Obama isn't obligated to address the behavior of a couple of nutjobs. And probably shouldn't.

Let the Feds deal with them.

Except as I already pointed out, there is NO apparent action by the FED what so ever. No arrests, no warrants, no requests to cease and desists , no effort at all.

 

[uptownlivin90]

A witness said the guy who was on the bottom with a red sweater was screaming for help.

Another witness said the one who got shot was screaming. Another one said "the guy with the white shirt" was on top beating on someone. Witnesses are so confused in this case.

Plus Zimmy could have been screaming for help... doesn't mean the altercation wasn't his fault in the first place.

Whether it was Zimmerman's fault or not, Martin was on top of him beating him after he was subdued & yelling for help. That makes the shooting legal.

So I can go start a fight today, get my tail whooped, and then shoot the person I start a fight with and face absolutely no charges?

 

[uptownlivin90]

Just like them standing out in front of a polling precinct with a baton?
Putting out a bounty on an individual is a crime....at least it used to be. I don't care who put it out, and individual or a Black Panther.

Yes, I know they're not the Eldridge Cleaver's or the H Rap Brown's of the past. But breaking the law is breaking the law....right?

I don't think I'm making myself clear:

I'm not excusing their behavior.

I was addressing why Obama isn't obligated to address the behavior of a couple of nutjobs. And probably shouldn't.

Let the Feds deal with them.

Except as I already pointed out, there is NO apparent action by the FED what so ever. No arrests, no warrants, no requests to cease and desists , no effort at all.

Call the SPLC and find out who you can contact to ask for information about why nothing has happened.

That has nothing to do with the President. All I'm saying.

 

[Meister]

The NBPP only matters to people on message boards that want to find a reason to make this worse.

There are somewhere between 10 and 20 of them. They've been doing stupid crap like this since the first Bush Administration, I can't ever recall any president actually giving them legitimacy by addressing any of the stupid crap they do. I don't know why any president would. Federal authorities should get involved, however there's little else they can do but investigate because the only reason we know about this bounty is because of the media. One of their top members (the one who actually called for the hit) is already being locked up for a firearms charge.

They're considered a hate group by the SPLC and the US Commission on Civil Rights, those are the people that need to be called on, not Obama. No the NBPP is not in anyway related to the original Black Panther Party of the 1970s or 80s. That group has been defunct and it's leaders have condemned the antics of the NBPP.

Just like them standing out in front of a polling precinct with a baton?
Putting out a bounty on an individual is a crime....at least it used to be. I don't care who put it out, and individual or a Black Panther.

Yes, I know they're not the Eldridge Cleaver's or the H Rap Brown's of the past. But breaking the law is breaking the law....right?

I don't think I'm making myself clear:

I'm not excusing their behavior.

I was addressing why Obama isn't obligated to address the behavior of a couple of nutjobs. And probably shouldn't.

Let the Feds deal with them.

Obama didn't hesitate to say that the cops acted stupidly....sheesh

 

[Ariux]

Whether it was Zimmerman's fault or not, Martin was on top of him beating him after he was subdued & yelling for help. That makes the shooting legal.

If Zimmeran hit the African first, I'd say the shooting isn't justified. But, you'd have shit for brains to think Zimmerman hit first.

6'3" drugged-up African football player vs. a pugy hispanic.
A "**** you"-attitude African vs. a guy who expected the police any moment.

 

[KissMy]

Another witness said the one who got shot was screaming. Another one said "the guy with the white shirt" was on top beating on someone. Witnesses are so confused in this case.

Plus Zimmy could have been screaming for help... doesn't mean the altercation wasn't his fault in the first place.

Whether it was Zimmerman's fault or not, Martin was on top of him beating him after he was subdued & yelling for help. That makes the shooting legal.

So I can go start a fight today, get my tail whooped, and then shoot the person I start a fight with and face absolutely no charges?

If no other witness saw you start the fight. If there is recorded proof & un-bias eye witness told responding officers the person on top of you continues to beat you after you are down & yelling for help. How could a jury not believe you feared for your life?

 

[The Gadfly]

The NBPP only matters to people on message boards that want to find a reason to make this worse.

There are somewhere between 10 and 20 of them. They've been doing stupid crap like this since the first Bush Administration, I can't ever recall any president actually giving them legitimacy by addressing any of the stupid crap they do. I don't know why any president would. Federal authorities should get involved, however there's little else they can do but investigate because the only reason we know about this bounty is because of the media. One of their top members (the one who actually called for the hit) is already being locked up for a firearms charge.

They're considered a hate group by the SPLC and the US Commission on Civil Rights, those are the people that need to be called on, not Obama. No the NBPP is not in anyway related to the original Black Panther Party of the 1970s or 80s. That group has been defunct and it's leaders have condemned the antics of the NBPP.

Just like them standing out in front of a polling precinct with a baton?
Putting out a bounty on an individual is a crime....at least it used to be. I don't care who put it out, and individual or a Black Panther.

Yes, I know they're not the Eldridge Cleaver's or the H Rap Brown's of the past. But breaking the law is breaking the law....right?

I don't think I'm making myself clear:

I'm not excusing their behavior.

I was addressing why Obama isn't obligated to address the behavior of a couple of nutjobs. And probably shouldn't.

Let the Feds deal with them.

Uptown, I for one would be quite satisfied if the DOJ and FBI would do just that; unfortunately they seem in no hurry to do so; haven't so much as lifted a finger so far. I think we can agree that the bounty fliers, whatever other laws they violate, could be construed as conspiracy to deprive Zimmerman of his civil rights, no?

BTW, I appreciate the restraint and civility shown by you, HG, and most of our other Black regular contributors here, in a conversation that has often been far from civil. This incident, and what has followed it, has not been the sort of thing that brings out the best in many people.Thank you.

 

[uptownlivin90]

Whether it was Zimmerman's fault or not, Martin was on top of him beating him after he was subdued & yelling for help. That makes the shooting legal.

So I can go start a fight today, get my tail whooped, and then shoot the person I start a fight with and face absolutely no charges?

If no other witness saw you start the fight. If there is recorded proof & un-bias eye witness told responding officers the person on top of you continues to beat you after you are down & yelling for help. How could a jury not believe you feared for your life?

OH ABSOLUTELY.

I've said it time and time again. There are no witnesses that tell us who was the original aggressor here AT ALL. Which is why I've also said, there is no case here and it will be thrown out and rightfully so.

My question was IF THERE WERE EVIDENCE that I started the fight would no charges be filed in your opinion? I was under the impression that you weren't concerned about who started the fight and that even if it came forward that Zimmerman started it and there was significant evidence that he did there would be no case because Zimmerman was losing the fight and would STILL be able to claim self-defense. Which I don't personally believe is the case, but I could be wrong.

 

[uptownlivin90]

Just like them standing out in front of a polling precinct with a baton?
Putting out a bounty on an individual is a crime....at least it used to be. I don't care who put it out, and individual or a Black Panther.

Yes, I know they're not the Eldridge Cleaver's or the H Rap Brown's of the past. But breaking the law is breaking the law....right?

I don't think I'm making myself clear:

I'm not excusing their behavior.

I was addressing why Obama isn't obligated to address the behavior of a couple of nutjobs. And probably shouldn't.

Let the Feds deal with them.

Uptown, I for one would be quite satisfied if the DOJ and FBI would do just that; unfortunately they seem in no hurry to do so; haven't so much as lifted a finger so far. I think we can agree that the bounty fliers, whatever other laws they violate, could be construed as conspiracy to deprive Zimmerman of his civil rights, no?

BTW, I appreciate the restraint and civility shown by you, HG, and most of our other Black regular contributors here, in a conversation that has often been far from civil. This incident, and what has followed it, has not been the sort of thing that brings out the best in many people.Thank you.

I definitely appreciate yours as well.

I'm just simply under the impression that civility is the best way of handling race relations in this country. People need to make an effort to hear others rather then just make an effort to be heard.

 

[KissMy]

Whether it was Zimmerman's fault or not, Martin was on top of him beating him after he was subdued & yelling for help. That makes the shooting legal.

If Zimmeran hit the African first, I'd say the shooting isn't justified. But, you'd have shit for brains to think Zimmerman hit first.

6'3" drugged-up African football player vs. a pugy hispanic.
A "**** you"-attitude African vs. a guy who expected the police any moment.

Shooting is still justified if Zimmermann hit him first. Martin continues attacking after Zimmermann was down & screaming for help. The only way Martin is justified in this is if Zimmerman pulled his gun on Martin & Martin felt he had to get the gun to be safe. No witness saw a struggle for a gun.

First eye witness (adult male) saw Martin on top of & beating Zimmerman as Zimmerman yelled "HELP". That is recorded on 911 tape & news crew interviewed this witness on tape within hours.

Second eye witness (boy walking dog) saw Martin on top of Zimmerman as Zimmermann yelled "HELP". This was moments prior to shooting. That is also recorded on 911 tape.

Zimmerman can't shoot because he got beat up in the fight. Zimmerman shot because he feared Martin would not stop beating him since he was down & yelling for help. Zimmerman now has reason to fear for his life since the attacker would not stop.

 

[uptownlivin90]

Whether it was Zimmerman's fault or not, Martin was on top of him beating him after he was subdued & yelling for help. That makes the shooting legal.

If Zimmeran hit the African first, I'd say the shooting isn't justified. But, you'd have shit for brains to think Zimmerman hit first.

6'3" drugged-up African football player vs. a pugy hispanic.
A "**** you"-attitude African vs. a guy who expected the police any moment.

Shooting is still justified if Zimmermann hit him first. Martin continues attacking after Zimmermann was down & screaming for help. The only way Martin is justified in this is if Zimmerman pulled his gun on Martin & Martin felt he had to get the gun to be safe. No witness saw a struggle for a gun.

First eye witness (adult male) saw Martin on top of & beating Zimmerman as Zimmerman yelled "HELP". That is recorded on 911 tape & news crew interviewed this witness on tape within hours.

Second eye witness (boy walking dog) saw Martin on top of Zimmerman as Zimmermann yelled "HELP". This was moments prior to shooting. That is also recorded on 911 tape.

This was my concern.

Wouldn't Zimmerman still be responsible for the death though if he started the altercation? I believe that's what manslaughter is. Unless I'm wrong. I can't understand how purposely putting yourself in a situation where you may have to take someones life is totally justifiable by law. I can see where you wouldn't be able to be charged with murder, but there has to be a a charge somewhere IF you initiated the contact like even simple assault.

 

[uptownlivin90]

Whether it was Zimmerman's fault or not, Martin was on top of him beating him after he was subdued & yelling for help. That makes the shooting legal.

If Zimmeran hit the African first, I'd say the shooting isn't justified. But, you'd have shit for brains to think Zimmerman hit first.

6'3" drugged-up African football player vs. a pugy hispanic.
A "**** you"-attitude African vs. a guy who expected the police any moment.

Devil's advocate.

What was the point of chasing the kid in the first place if he had no intention of doing anything when he caught up to him?

Did he want to say "hi" or something?

 

[KissMy]

OH ABSOLUTELY.

I've said it time and time again. There are no witnesses that tell us who was the original aggressor here AT ALL. Which is why I've also said, there is no case here and it will be thrown out and rightfully so.

My question was IF THERE WERE EVIDENCE that I started the fight would no charges be filed in your opinion? I was under the impression that you weren't concerned about who started the fight and that even if it came forward that Zimmerman started it and there was significant evidence that he did there would be no case because Zimmerman was losing the fight and would STILL be able to claim self-defense. Which I don't personally believe is the case, but I could be wrong.

Zimmerman can't claim self defense because he is losing the fight. According to 2 eye witnesses Zimmerman was down (subdued/lost fight) & was screaming for "HELP" about 20+ times. This is recorded on 911 tape. Because Martin is now being unreasonable & excessive in beating someone who is trying to give up screaming for help. At that point Zimmerman was justified in fearing for his life allowing for him to use his gun.

First eye witness (adult male) saw Martin on top of & beating Zimmerman as Zimmerman yelled "HELP". That is recorded on 911 tape & news crew interviewed this witness on tape within hours.

Second eye witness (boy walking dog) saw Martin on top of Zimmerman as Zimmermann yelled "HELP". This was moments prior to shooting. That is also recorded on 911 tape.

Neither witness saw a gun or a struggle for the gun.

 

[KissMy]

First eye witness (adult male) saw Martin on top of & beating Zimmerman as Zimmerman yelled "HELP". That is recorded on 911 tape & news crew interviewed this witness on tape within hours.

Second eye witness (boy walking dog) saw Martin on top of Zimmerman as Zimmermann yelled "HELP". This was moments prior to shooting. That is also recorded on 911 tape.