Nationalize Med

[dblack]

We already have over centralized control, it's merely out of reach of the vote. If the power structure has control of the economic system and banking system, it has no need to control the political system.

Why health care and not the other necessities of life? Should government also be charged with making sure we all have adequate "access" to food, housing, etc?

It seems that you really don't want to answer this question. Why?

 

[Fenton Lum]

We already have over centralized control, it's merely out of reach of the vote. If the power structure has control of the economic system and banking system, it has no need to control the political system.

Why health care and not the other necessities of life? Should government also be charged with making sure we all have adequate "access" to food, housing, etc?

It seems that you really don't want to answer this question. Why?

Because it's irrelevant and you only seem interested your clinging to a belief system. Think of your founders. All they were interested in protecting was the property rights of the aristocracy and only land holding white males were granted the vote, with a senate appointed by the aristocracy. Enslavement of a labor force to keep costs down was the order of the day for the "job creator" class and they had no compunctions around ethnic cleasing and genocide for access to land they didn't wish to pay for. Somehow that got adverted/indoctrinated to the masses as "liberty" and "fweeumb". Perhaps if this power structure would some day learn to treat all citizens the same, but that's too much to expect from america. Should the govt have been charged with providing the GI Bill which turned out to be affirmative action for whites? You know society benefitted from that investment, we all do.

The fact remains that america trails the rest of the advanced post industrialized world when it comes to health"care", because it is for profit, and we pay twice as much for shittier outcomes than the next most expensive system. Which really isn't any kind of comparison at all given these other systems cover all. If that's your belief system, just own it. Be proud that you have THE most expensive and inefficient healthcare system on the planet, and that as a reward, your exceptional society has a health"care" system which folk commonly lose their homes over while half the nation exists in poverty. No wonder we have to export this shyte through military hegemony.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

No one said anything about free,

Nationalized healthcare isn't going to be free to the patient?
Why do you hate poor people?

Mortality rates for cancer were among the lowest in the U.S.,

Only because we have better healthcare.

but rates of chronic conditions, obesity, and infant mortality were higher than those abroad.

The healthcare system can't stop people from overeating, under exercising or drinking and taking drugs while pregnant.

I'm sorry, was this intended to be your response to the provided information?

You are sorry.

I'm sorry you were so utterly embarrassed by information.

Tell it to the Canadian woman discussed in the video I linked, who had both legs amputated after lingering on the waiting list for over a year in that awesome, government run Canadian healthcare system.

We all thank you for your anecdote, but our system is what it is, and the evidence is overwhelming; the US sucks at healthcare. And your system has you subsidizing the reduced pharmaceutical prices Canadians pay thanks to their ability to negotiate downward. US pharma corps make up the difference on your dumbass. USA! USA! USA!

We all thank you for your anecdote, but our system is what it is, and the evidence is overwhelming; the US sucks at healthcare.

And based on long waitlists, like those seen in every government run health system in the world, their systems suck worse.

And your system has you subsidizing the reduced pharmaceutical prices Canadians pay thanks to their ability to negotiate downward.

Yes, the fact that Canada and other countries steal our pharma IP, gives them lower prices on the medicines that they decide to allow their citizens to get.

US pharma corps make up the difference on your dumbass.

If you feel like we need a lot less research on new drugs and that the current drugs are all we'll ever need, go right ahead and duplicate their systems here.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

There are plenty of examples of other advanced societies that do healthcare, and more, much better and cheaper than we do; societies with much less wealth to work with. We can't even learn from what others do succcessfully. There is something deep within the american psyche that needs to see people suffer, and punished. Both our own people and others.

But that doesn't answer the question. Why health care and not the other necessities of life? Should government also be charged with making sure we all have adequate "access" to food, housing, etc?

What could it do, could society be reorganized? There's plenty of wealth generated by all members of this society. Name me another that turns kids into debt peons for an education. Globally competitive with other societies that invest in their own societies? Naw, we'll never be.

Name me another that turns kids into debt peons for an education.

Throwing trillions of dollars of government money at colleges has allowed them to boost their prices at multiples of the rate of inflation? Gee, who could have seen that coming? DERP!

 

[Fenton Lum]

I'm sorry, was this intended to be your response to the provided information?

You are sorry.

I'm sorry you were so utterly embarrassed by information.

Tell it to the Canadian woman discussed in the video I linked, who had both legs amputated after lingering on the waiting list for over a year in that awesome, government run Canadian healthcare system.

We all thank you for your anecdote, but our system is what it is, and the evidence is overwhelming; the US sucks at healthcare. And your system has you subsidizing the reduced pharmaceutical prices Canadians pay thanks to their ability to negotiate downward. US pharma corps make up the difference on your dumbass. USA! USA! USA!

We all thank you for your anecdote, but our system is what it is, and the evidence is overwhelming; the US sucks at healthcare.

And based on long waitlists, like those seen in every government run health system in the world, their systems suck worse.

And your system has you subsidizing the reduced pharmaceutical prices Canadians pay thanks to their ability to negotiate downward.

Yes, the fact that Canada and other countries steal our pharma IP, gives them lower prices on the medicines that they decide to allow their citizens to get.

US pharma corps make up the difference on your dumbass.

If you feel like we need a lot less research on new drugs and that the current drugs are all we'll ever need, go right ahead and duplicate their systems here.

I give you more sourced information than you'll ever go through and you give me anonymous chat board pronouncements, noted.

 

[Fenton Lum]

There are plenty of examples of other advanced societies that do healthcare, and more, much better and cheaper than we do; societies with much less wealth to work with. We can't even learn from what others do succcessfully. There is something deep within the american psyche that needs to see people suffer, and punished. Both our own people and others.

But that doesn't answer the question. Why health care and not the other necessities of life? Should government also be charged with making sure we all have adequate "access" to food, housing, etc?

What could it do, could society be reorganized? There's plenty of wealth generated by all members of this society. Name me another that turns kids into debt peons for an education. Globally competitive with other societies that invest in their own societies? Naw, we'll never be.

Name me another that turns kids into debt peons for an education.

Throwing trillions of dollars of government money at colleges has allowed them to boost their prices at multiples of the rate of inflation? Gee, who could have seen that coming? DERP!

Other advanced nations educate their populations, yours marches them to poverty. Spin it any way ya like pard.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

You are sorry.

I'm sorry you were so utterly embarrassed by information.

Tell it to the Canadian woman discussed in the video I linked, who had both legs amputated after lingering on the waiting list for over a year in that awesome, government run Canadian healthcare system.

We all thank you for your anecdote, but our system is what it is, and the evidence is overwhelming; the US sucks at healthcare. And your system has you subsidizing the reduced pharmaceutical prices Canadians pay thanks to their ability to negotiate downward. US pharma corps make up the difference on your dumbass. USA! USA! USA!

We all thank you for your anecdote, but our system is what it is, and the evidence is overwhelming; the US sucks at healthcare.

And based on long waitlists, like those seen in every government run health system in the world, their systems suck worse.

And your system has you subsidizing the reduced pharmaceutical prices Canadians pay thanks to their ability to negotiate downward.

Yes, the fact that Canada and other countries steal our pharma IP, gives them lower prices on the medicines that they decide to allow their citizens to get.

US pharma corps make up the difference on your dumbass.

If you feel like we need a lot less research on new drugs and that the current drugs are all we'll ever need, go right ahead and duplicate their systems here.

I give you more sourced information than you'll ever go through and you give me anonymous chat board pronouncements, noted.

Yes, your sourced misinformation was very useful.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

There are plenty of examples of other advanced societies that do healthcare, and more, much better and cheaper than we do; societies with much less wealth to work with. We can't even learn from what others do succcessfully. There is something deep within the american psyche that needs to see people suffer, and punished. Both our own people and others.

But that doesn't answer the question. Why health care and not the other necessities of life? Should government also be charged with making sure we all have adequate "access" to food, housing, etc?

What could it do, could society be reorganized? There's plenty of wealth generated by all members of this society. Name me another that turns kids into debt peons for an education. Globally competitive with other societies that invest in their own societies? Naw, we'll never be.

Name me another that turns kids into debt peons for an education.

Throwing trillions of dollars of government money at colleges has allowed them to boost their prices at multiples of the rate of inflation? Gee, who could have seen that coming? DERP!

Other advanced nations educate their populations, yours marches them to poverty. Spin it any way ya like pard.

To be fair, those other nations don't allow everyone who can fog a mirror to borrow tens of thousands of dollars to fatten the coffers of their universities. Why don't we throw a couple of trillion more government dollars at colleges, see if we can continue the inflationary spiral in their tuition? DERP!

 

[Fenton Lum]

I'm sorry you were so utterly embarrassed by information.

Tell it to the Canadian woman discussed in the video I linked, who had both legs amputated after lingering on the waiting list for over a year in that awesome, government run Canadian healthcare system.

We all thank you for your anecdote, but our system is what it is, and the evidence is overwhelming; the US sucks at healthcare. And your system has you subsidizing the reduced pharmaceutical prices Canadians pay thanks to their ability to negotiate downward. US pharma corps make up the difference on your dumbass. USA! USA! USA!

We all thank you for your anecdote, but our system is what it is, and the evidence is overwhelming; the US sucks at healthcare.

And based on long waitlists, like those seen in every government run health system in the world, their systems suck worse.

And your system has you subsidizing the reduced pharmaceutical prices Canadians pay thanks to their ability to negotiate downward.

Yes, the fact that Canada and other countries steal our pharma IP, gives them lower prices on the medicines that they decide to allow their citizens to get.

US pharma corps make up the difference on your dumbass.

If you feel like we need a lot less research on new drugs and that the current drugs are all we'll ever need, go right ahead and duplicate their systems here.

I give you more sourced information than you'll ever go through and you give me anonymous chat board pronouncements, noted.

Yes, your sourced misinformation was very useful.

You couldn't even address it son, c'mon now.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Tell it to the Canadian woman discussed in the video I linked, who had both legs amputated after lingering on the waiting list for over a year in that awesome, government run Canadian healthcare system.

We all thank you for your anecdote, but our system is what it is, and the evidence is overwhelming; the US sucks at healthcare. And your system has you subsidizing the reduced pharmaceutical prices Canadians pay thanks to their ability to negotiate downward. US pharma corps make up the difference on your dumbass. USA! USA! USA!

We all thank you for your anecdote, but our system is what it is, and the evidence is overwhelming; the US sucks at healthcare.

And based on long waitlists, like those seen in every government run health system in the world, their systems suck worse.

And your system has you subsidizing the reduced pharmaceutical prices Canadians pay thanks to their ability to negotiate downward.

Yes, the fact that Canada and other countries steal our pharma IP, gives them lower prices on the medicines that they decide to allow their citizens to get.

US pharma corps make up the difference on your dumbass.

If you feel like we need a lot less research on new drugs and that the current drugs are all we'll ever need, go right ahead and duplicate their systems here.

I give you more sourced information than you'll ever go through and you give me anonymous chat board pronouncements, noted.

Yes, your sourced misinformation was very useful.

You couldn't even address it son, c'mon now.

It'd be a waste of my time pointing out all the falsehoods and errors in that post.
You feel government does a swell job....just ignore the casualties dying on the waiting list.

 

[Fenton Lum]

There are plenty of examples of other advanced societies that do healthcare, and more, much better and cheaper than we do; societies with much less wealth to work with. We can't even learn from what others do succcessfully. There is something deep within the american psyche that needs to see people suffer, and punished. Both our own people and others.

But that doesn't answer the question. Why health care and not the other necessities of life? Should government also be charged with making sure we all have adequate "access" to food, housing, etc?

What could it do, could society be reorganized? There's plenty of wealth generated by all members of this society. Name me another that turns kids into debt peons for an education. Globally competitive with other societies that invest in their own societies? Naw, we'll never be.

Name me another that turns kids into debt peons for an education.

Throwing trillions of dollars of government money at colleges has allowed them to boost their prices at multiples of the rate of inflation? Gee, who could have seen that coming? DERP!

Other advanced nations educate their populations, yours marches them to poverty. Spin it any way ya like pard.

To be fair, those other nations don't allow everyone who can fog a mirror to borrow tens of thousands of dollars to fatten the coffers of their universities. Why don't we throw a couple of trillion more government dollars at colleges, see if we can continue the inflationary spiral in their tuition? DERP!

No, they don't allow the bankers to prey upon citizens, it is paid for by society as a whole. We on the other hand are more interested in empire, so we send all our funding to a military/industrial complex that Ike warned us of back when "conservatives" were, well, conservative.

But that's scary stuff you can't admit.

 

[Fenton Lum]

We all thank you for your anecdote, but our system is what it is, and the evidence is overwhelming; the US sucks at healthcare. And your system has you subsidizing the reduced pharmaceutical prices Canadians pay thanks to their ability to negotiate downward. US pharma corps make up the difference on your dumbass. USA! USA! USA!

We all thank you for your anecdote, but our system is what it is, and the evidence is overwhelming; the US sucks at healthcare.

And based on long waitlists, like those seen in every government run health system in the world, their systems suck worse.

And your system has you subsidizing the reduced pharmaceutical prices Canadians pay thanks to their ability to negotiate downward.

Yes, the fact that Canada and other countries steal our pharma IP, gives them lower prices on the medicines that they decide to allow their citizens to get.

US pharma corps make up the difference on your dumbass.

If you feel like we need a lot less research on new drugs and that the current drugs are all we'll ever need, go right ahead and duplicate their systems here.

I give you more sourced information than you'll ever go through and you give me anonymous chat board pronouncements, noted.

Yes, your sourced misinformation was very useful.

You couldn't even address it son, c'mon now.

It'd be a waste of my time pointing out all the falsehoods and errors in that post.
You feel government does a swell job....just ignore the casualties dying on the waiting list.

Bwa ha ha, yes, of course hon.

 

[dblack]

Why health care and not the other necessities of life? Should government also be charged with making sure we all have adequate "access" to food, housing, etc?

It seems that you really don't want to answer this question. Why?

Because it's irrelevant ...

It's utterly relevant. You're talking about nationalizing an industry that impacts all of our lives in the most personal way. Some of us are worried that folks like you want to nationalize pretty much everything. Is that what you don't want to admit?

... and you only seem interested your clinging to a belief system.

Nope. I'm asking a direct question without reference to ideology or belief.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

But that doesn't answer the question. Why health care and not the other necessities of life? Should government also be charged with making sure we all have adequate "access" to food, housing, etc?

What could it do, could society be reorganized? There's plenty of wealth generated by all members of this society. Name me another that turns kids into debt peons for an education. Globally competitive with other societies that invest in their own societies? Naw, we'll never be.

Name me another that turns kids into debt peons for an education.

Throwing trillions of dollars of government money at colleges has allowed them to boost their prices at multiples of the rate of inflation? Gee, who could have seen that coming? DERP!

Other advanced nations educate their populations, yours marches them to poverty. Spin it any way ya like pard.

To be fair, those other nations don't allow everyone who can fog a mirror to borrow tens of thousands of dollars to fatten the coffers of their universities. Why don't we throw a couple of trillion more government dollars at colleges, see if we can continue the inflationary spiral in their tuition? DERP!

No, they don't allow the bankers to prey upon citizens, it is paid for by society as a whole. We on the other hand are more interested in empire, so we send all our funding to a military/industrial complex that Ike warned us of back when "conservatives" were, well, conservative.

But that's scary stuff you can't admit.

No, they don't allow the bankers to prey upon citizens, it is paid for by society as a whole.

Like the woman in my video. She paid with the loss of both her legs, because government rationed healthcare always involves substandard care and long waiting lists.

 

[Fenton Lum]

What could it do, could society be reorganized? There's plenty of wealth generated by all members of this society. Name me another that turns kids into debt peons for an education. Globally competitive with other societies that invest in their own societies? Naw, we'll never be.

Name me another that turns kids into debt peons for an education.

Throwing trillions of dollars of government money at colleges has allowed them to boost their prices at multiples of the rate of inflation? Gee, who could have seen that coming? DERP!

Other advanced nations educate their populations, yours marches them to poverty. Spin it any way ya like pard.

To be fair, those other nations don't allow everyone who can fog a mirror to borrow tens of thousands of dollars to fatten the coffers of their universities. Why don't we throw a couple of trillion more government dollars at colleges, see if we can continue the inflationary spiral in their tuition? DERP!

No, they don't allow the bankers to prey upon citizens, it is paid for by society as a whole. We on the other hand are more interested in empire, so we send all our funding to a military/industrial complex that Ike warned us of back when "conservatives" were, well, conservative.

But that's scary stuff you can't admit.

No, they don't allow the bankers to prey upon citizens, it is paid for by society as a whole.

Like the woman in my video. She paid with the loss of both her legs, because government rationed healthcare always involves substandard care and long waiting lists.

Yeah, I heard, I gave you a list of documented research and data, and you got this youtube vid. I got it, thanks. Is that it?

 

[IResist]

I think nationalizing the healthcare system is the best way to solve the problem. We are always going to lag behind other developed nations if we don't have a single-payer, universal healthcare system. Everybody should be in the insurance pool and we should all subsidize ourselves and one another.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Name me another that turns kids into debt peons for an education.

Throwing trillions of dollars of government money at colleges has allowed them to boost their prices at multiples of the rate of inflation? Gee, who could have seen that coming? DERP!

Other advanced nations educate their populations, yours marches them to poverty. Spin it any way ya like pard.

To be fair, those other nations don't allow everyone who can fog a mirror to borrow tens of thousands of dollars to fatten the coffers of their universities. Why don't we throw a couple of trillion more government dollars at colleges, see if we can continue the inflationary spiral in their tuition? DERP!

No, they don't allow the bankers to prey upon citizens, it is paid for by society as a whole. We on the other hand are more interested in empire, so we send all our funding to a military/industrial complex that Ike warned us of back when "conservatives" were, well, conservative.

But that's scary stuff you can't admit.

No, they don't allow the bankers to prey upon citizens, it is paid for by society as a whole.

Like the woman in my video. She paid with the loss of both her legs, because government rationed healthcare always involves substandard care and long waiting lists.

Yeah, I heard, I gave you a list of documented research and data, and you got this youtube vid. I got it, thanks. Is that it?

Yup, long waiting lists, shoddy service, what's not to like about National Healthcare?
At least it's free.
DERP!

 

[westwall]

Time to pick a fight.

The US is the ONLY western democracy without nationalized medicine. The other countries realize that medical care is a right, not a privilege.

Many people are moving towards National Medical. One of the groups that have voiced this is the Doctors. Imagine the billions saved by getting rid of the HMOs and Insurance Companies dealing in Medical benefits that do absolutely nothing except raking in the cash. We are talking billions.

Doctors are having trouble affording their medical offices, equipment, etc.. And it keeps going up. Meanwhile, the HMOs and Insurance Companies are taking a bigger chunk each year.

Nationalize Medicine means that Doctors don't have to afford the office space and equipment. It's paid for by the Billions saved by sending the HMOs and Insurance Companies packing.

One of the worst is the Malpractice law suits. Nationalizing gets rid of that.

It also gets rid of the deductables that are eating many of us alive.

Tag, yer it.

Based on the veterans experiences with the VA all I can say is no. Hell no. Can you imagine the entire medical industry of the USA run like that?

 

[task0778]

Go tell the American public you want UHC and then tell them that every other country that has it pays through the nose for it and see what the response is. Most of them are paying 10-15% of their paychecks and that's EVERYBODY from $1 on up. Or their paying a high VAT tax on stuff they buy, it ain't cheap. Then remind them how well the gov't has been running the VA, which is single payer for our vets. Then tell them how it was tried in Vermont and failed. Free health care ain't free and it ain't that great either.

 

[IResist]

I will gladly pay for a bump in taxes for single payer healthcare.