Name an aethist Group that did this.

[Annie]

No. I mean those two DEMOCRATS and atheists who have given fortunes to charity.

I think that was the topic of discussion of the thread. You lose track?

No. You did. With names and citations.

 

[jillian]

No. You did. With names and citations.

You have questions that Bill Gates and Warren Buffet are Dems or atheists? And just because he wants to offtrack the discussion and rant about "liberals" doesn't mean he needs help doing so.

 

[Doug]

There are atheist organizations, but only a few, and their membership is not large. You can certainly be a generous spirit, and an atheist, at the same time.

But the problem with atheism is that when people become atheists, they do not tend to join the local Ethical Culture Society, or the American Humanist Association. They leave behind all organized connections to "spirituality", both those which are committed to a supernatural view of the world, and those which are not.

And this is the problem with atheism.

It tends to dissolve one of our most important connections, for most people, to civil society, whereby decent values and behavior are transmitted and rewarded. A member of a church is under continual low-level pressure to behave in a generally good way. Churches will have their charitable projects, and one of the ways in which you gain and maintain prestige in the church is by taking part in them, or at least contributing to them.

Atheism is fine for intellectuals, who probably wouldn't want to associate with ordinary people anyway. But for auto mechanics, computer salesmen, hairdressers -- in short, for the great majority of people -- churches (and mosques and synagogues and temples) provide an invaluable link to society.

Of course, under some circumstances these links can become points of fracture in society, where one religious group is pitted against another. Iraq would probably benefit today from a mass conversion to atheism.

But truth is always concrete, and in most of the world, most of the time, religious affiliation is a good thing, even from the point of view of an atheist.

The state cannot take the place of the family and the church. Schools cannot transmit the sort of values that families and religious groups can, including the Good Works of charitable endeavors.

 

[82Marine89]

You have questions that Bill Gates and Warren Buffet are Dems or atheists? And just because he wants to offtrack the discussion and rant about "liberals" doesn't mean he needs help doing so.

Since when are Bill Gates and Warren Buffet Atheist organizations? Last time I checked they were individual donors.

I know it's hard, but try to stay on topic.

 

[jillian]

Since when are Bill Gates and Warren Buffet Atheist organizations? Last time I checked they were individual donors.

I know it's hard, but try to stay on topic.

I'd suggest you look at the thread topic. The implication was that atheists are not charitable like religious types. Bill Gates and Warren Buffet are both atheists and have given extraordinary amounts to charity.

Try to follow the thread.

 

[mattskramer]

Choose sides and fight. They are all bad. We are all good. You never recognize any good done by “them”. You don’t recognize any bad things done by “us”. Such pettiness. There are just too many egos. It reminds me of the lady who had to wave a check in a church service supposedly for the ink to dry.

There are non-religious organizations that give. Now you will probably ask how much they give. You will challenge me to a bean-counting contest – how many nickels and dimes do these organizations give. Pathetic. Anyway, here is one such organization.

http://www.secularhumanism.org/

 

[82Marine89]

I'd suggest you look at the thread topic. The implication was that atheists are not charitable like religious types. Bill Gates and Warren Buffet are both atheists and have given extraordinary amounts to charity.

Try to follow the thread.

Thread title...

Name an aethist Group that did this.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Thread title...

Don't argue with facts, it just pisses them off. Ignore them.

 

[Annie]

I heard an atheist 'leader' the other day saying that it's true that atheists tend not to give to charities the way that religious do, partially because the religious can give through their churches/temples/what have you. He cited some study, but I can't find it. I did find this though:

http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cach...org&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=9&gl=us&client=firefox-a

...But the stereotype that the unfaithful give less isn't wholly untrue, according to a recent study. Researcher Arthur Brooks found that the
faithful give four times more money annually than the secular population. However, most of that money is going to the church and stays there
to pay for things such as music and technology, according to the Christian research organization Empty Tomb, Inc.
Either way, Michael said atheists appreciate the contributions religious groups make to society, as well as their right to believe.
"I don't preach to know everything, maybe there is a supreme being. But I'm not going to pound the table and say 'Damn it. There is no God!'"
Michael said. "We don't know why the universe exists or why we're here....

 

[jillian]

Don't argue with facts, it just pisses them off. Ignore them.

Yutz, atheists aren't organized religious groups.

Or are you going to lie and say your implication wasn't that religious types are oh so much more generous than non-religious types? Hmmmmmmmm... yeah, everyone's stupid but you.

And if you don't stop using the debating tactics of a 10 year old, you're going to become quite tiring.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Yutz, atheists aren't organized religious groups.

Or are you going to lie and say your implication wasn't that religious types are oh so much more generous than non-religious types? Hmmmmmmmm... yeah, everyone's stupid but you.

And if you don't stop using the debating tactics of a 10 year old, you're going to become quite tiring.

This from a lawyer that doesn't even understand how the Constitution works or that one can have an opinion that someone broke the law.....

I was quite clear " Group" or are you claiming that there are none? As for donations by individuals see Kath's post.

 

[midcan5]

I gave through Amazon. Many, atheists included, gave to anyone who was collecting, hope it was all well used.

I don't agree with Doug that atheists tend to be or are necessarily intellectuals, that's his conservative elitism sneaking into every topic. But most atheists stay in the closet as our society is backward when it comes to religious belief. Can you imagine an atheist running for office in this country?

Also don't agree that religion makes for social harmony or social anything, that even seems contradictory given the current world stage. People have friends through family, work, neighborhood, hobbies, and education. Religion? maybe but it can be nothing more than psychological dependency.

One old Jehovah witness used to come to our house with their magazines, I gave her money every time, how could I not she loved what she was doing and believed in it. We actually become acquaintances as she told us of her trips etc, never realizing it was just those things all people do, that we shared, and not religion.

 

[Gunny]

I gave through Amazon. Many, atheists included, gave to anyone who was collecting, hope it was all well used.

I don't agree with Doug that atheists tend to be or are necessarily intellectuals, that's his conservative elitism sneaking into every topic. But most atheists stay in the closet as our society is backward when it comes to religious belief. Can you imagine an atheist running for office in this country?

Also don't agree that religion makes for social harmony or social anything, that even seems contradictory given the current world stage. People have friends through family, work, neighborhood, hobbies, and education. Religion? maybe but it can be nothing more than psychological dependency.

One old Jehovah witness used to come to our house with their magazines, I gave her money every time, how could I not she loved what she was doing and believed in it. We actually become acquaintances as she told us of her trips etc, never realizing it was just those things all people do, that we shared, and not religion.

Conservative elitism? *Looks for LMAO dying of a heart attack emoticon*

I would tend to agree that most atheists at least *think* they are intellectuals, and that has NOTHING to do with MY elitism and a lot to do with the atheists'.

I have yet to meet an atheist that doesn't believe he/she is smarter than the religious person who get labelled superstitious, mythological, et al.

And does not the atheist argument itself consider atheists more intelligent than religious people? Hint: This is where you nod your head and say, "Yes, it does."

It is common sense that a religion in common promotes social harmony within a community that holds the same views. The common bond thing, no?

 

[jillian]

This from a lawyer that doesn't even understand how the Constitution works or that one can have an opinion that someone broke the law.....

I was quite clear " Group" or are you claiming that there are none? As for donations by individuals see Kath's post.

Kath's post was an effort to help you change the topic because you didn't like being called on the fact that this was just another "look how wonderful religious people are" garbage type of thread. And you didn't like that your thesis was baseless because atheists are just as capable of giving as religious folk, albeit not in an "organizational" sense.

I am curious as to what my being a lawyer has to do with your limited debate skills. But please do keep your tantrums to yourself. I'm sorry if you have trouble staying on topic. Or if your anger is so all-pervasive that you can't discuss an issue without the aforesaid tantrums. But it's not my fault or anyone else's.

Dismissed.

 

[José]

Originally posted by midcan5
Also don't agree that religion makes for social harmony or social anything, that even seems contradictory given the current world stage.

 

[José]

homicide rate

Mexico: 12.81

US: 5.5

Church attendance

México: 46%

US: 44%

Homicide rate

Denmark: 0.79

Norway: 0.78

Church attendance

Denmark: 5%

Norway: 5%

Seems like those irreligious vikings don’t need any priest or supernatural being telling them that human life is worth more than the price of a bullet...

Case closed...

 

[82Marine89]

homicide rate

Mexico: 12.81

US: 5.5

Church attendance

México: 46%

US: 44%

Homicide rate

Denmark: 0.79

Norway: 0.78

Church attendance

Denmark: 5%

Norway: 5%

Seems like those irreligious vikings don’t need any priest or supernatural being telling them that human life is worth more than the price of a bullet...

Case closed...

What's the 'per capita' of those rates? Can you provide a link for those numbers?

 

[Gunny]

homicide rate

Mexico: 12.81

US: 5.5

Church attendance

México: 46%

US: 44%

Homicide rate

Denmark: 0.79

Norway: 0.78

Church attendance

Denmark: 5%

Norway: 5%

Seems like those irreligious vikings don’t need any priest or supernatural being telling them that human life is worth more than the price of a bullet...

Case closed...

Hardly. Pick a nation where all practice the same religion. The US has more religions than Starburst has flavors.

 

[midcan5]

Conservative elitism? *Looks for LMAO dying of a heart attack emoticon*

I have yet to meet an atheist that doesn't believe he/she is smarter than the religious person who get labeled superstitious, mythological, et al.

Elitism, yes, hierarchical thinking breeds an elitist attitude and hierarchy is stronger on the right. Remember we are the egalitarians.

And I have never met a religious person who doesn't pity the poor atheist so that is a draw.

I don't even agree that religion creates a social bond among peers as you do recognize the multitude of religions and the confusion and complexity any change brings to the group. Islam in Iraq or Episcopalians right here.


Jose, good post. Show religion in and of itself is just part of the equation.

 

[Gunny]

Elitism, yes, hierarchical thinking breeds an elitist attitude and hierarchy is stronger on the right. Remember we are the egalitarians.

Ummm ... disagree. Y'all like to claim to be egalitarians. The overwhelming vast majority of elitists I've encountered were on the left, not the right. And before you attempt to make the "blind" argument, eltisits, regardless who, what or where from make the hairs on the back of my neck bristle.

And I have never met a religious person who doesn't pity the poor atheist so that is a draw.

Well, how do you do? Now you have. I could care less what you believe so long as you aren't trying to push it down my throat.

I don't even agree that religion creates a social bond among peers as you do recognize the multitude of religions and the confusion and complexity any change brings to the group. Islam in Iraq or Episcopalians right here.

Jose, good post. Show religion in and of itself is just part of the equation.

My point was that a single religion CAN bring about social harmony, since religion is the discussion and attempts have been made to dismiss the argument.

The fact is, all societies are based on common bonds. The more common bonds their are, the more harmonious the society. So, rather than arguing that religion is, I merely am stating that religion can be in response to attempts to say it cannot.