More second amendment remedies

[rightwinger]

Smith was shot eight times and his wife twice

Hard to do that with a car.

Thank goodness for our second amendment rights

The reality is your silly anti-gunnutting makes you a laughing stock. The Right to Bare Arms, is one people like you will never take away from the American people.

If those two idiots had bare arms instead of guns we would not have these problems

 

[Renae]

Smith was shot eight times and his wife twice

Hard to do that with a car.

Thank goodness for our second amendment rights

The reality is your silly anti-gunnutting makes you a laughing stock. The Right to Bare Arms, is one people like you will never take away from the American people.

If those two idiots had bare arms instead of guns we would not have these problems

You are quite right, if they didn't have guns, no one would have been shot. Congrats on pointing out the obvious. However, we live in a Country where the value of self defense is paramount. Bad actors will find a way to do bad things and kill people. Acting like the problem is Gun Ownership shows a distinct lack of understanding. I suppose that for you, blaming something other than the people involved is far easier to do. It gives you a cause "The Gun", a moral crusade to feel like you are important and are doing something to help save lives "Ending Gun Ownership" all without having to think too hard or face certain truths. You can ignore the positive value of gun ownership, because you see "The Truth".

It's kind of the same limited thinking that empowers the lunatic 9/11 troofers.

 

[2aguy]

SWitzerland had 435,000 armed civilians...and that fact kept the Germans from invading...the rest of Europe and Russia disarmed their civilians.......and they were all run over by the Germans...pretending that hundreds of thousands of armed civilian resistance would have made no difference to the German war plans is the lie....

and are you kidding me....the French Quarter..it's filled with crime.......

And if they pulled out a gun and shot someone over a fender bender.....they were nuts long before that night...did either of them have previous arrests for violence?

The Nazis invaded the Soviet Union and lost 8 million as a result. No way they were afraid of Switzerland

I have posted this...hitter hated the Swiss and wanted to invade...his military officers told him it would be too costly.....too many armed civilians...the rest of Erupoe and Russia disarmed their people......They were helpless after the Germans rolled over their militaries...and he would have done the same to Russia if we hadn't joined the fight.....and armed Russia.....

Now you are making me laugh

The Swiss were more fearsome than the Red Army

It's why we call you gun nuts

The Red army was pathetic...Stalin had purged his best generals, they were untrained, lost almost all of their war supplies to the German invasion......Stalin had placed it in locations for his invasion of Germany, but hotler beat him to it........and Russian soldiers defected in the 100,00s of thousands..........had hitler not executed his Russian prisoners and given them no chipping but to stay with Stalin...he could have easily taken over Russia.......but he hated the Russians too...and mass murdered them as we'll........

The Red army was poorly led, had no supplies and would have lost the war without the help of the United States and the stupid mistakes of hitler...read some history moron....

The Red Army defeated the Nazis

Only because we entered the war twit. If we hadn't entered the war...forcing the Germans to fight on two fronts, and if we hadn't supplied the Russians with all of their aircraft and equipment...they would have lost like everyone else did in Europe.......

 

[2aguy]

SWitzerland had 435,000 armed civilians...and that fact kept the Germans from invading...the rest of Europe and Russia disarmed their civilians.......and they were all run over by the Germans...pretending that hundreds of thousands of armed civilian resistance would have made no difference to the German war plans is the lie....

and are you kidding me....the French Quarter..it's filled with crime.......

And if they pulled out a gun and shot someone over a fender bender.....they were nuts long before that night...did either of them have previous arrests for violence?

The Nazis invaded the Soviet Union and lost 8 million as a result. No way they were afraid of Switzerland

I have posted this...hitter hated the Swiss and wanted to invade...his military officers told him it would be too costly.....too many armed civilians...the rest of Erupoe and Russia disarmed their people......They were helpless after the Germans rolled over their militaries...and he would have done the same to Russia if we hadn't joined the fight.....and armed Russia.....

Now you are making me laugh

The Swiss were more fearsome than the Red Army

It's why we call you gun nuts

They couldn't successfully occupy the country with that many armed and ready civilians twit....the Swiss expected to lose to an invasion...and planned on fighting a guerilla war after the occupation.......with 435,000 armed members of the resistance...the rest of Europe and Russia disarmed their civilians...so the Germans new that once they rolled over the militaries of those countries...their civilians would have to simply submit....twit.

Nazis knew how to deal with resistance...kill you and kill your entire family
If a town supported the resistance, the whole town would be wiped out

The Swiss were too soft. They never would have endured that....the Soviets did to the tune of millions of civilian casualties

Yes....because the resistance was small and poorly armed.....during the war GM the car company made pistols.....no sights, no rifling...couldn't hit anything past a few feet, single shot.....that they dropped behind the lines for the resistance....because the resistance had no guns...

Now imagine if every country the Germans invaded had 435,000 well armed, highly motivated civilians...they would not have been able to hold that territory, and they could have tried to destroy village...but that wouldn't work.....killing civilians only works when the civilians can't fight back....

All it took to keep the Germans from invaded Switzerland was 435,000 armed civilians...you know...with actual assault rifles, and pistols........

The rest of Europe allowed themselves to be disarmed after WW2....and they paid for it 20 years later.......12 million innocent men, women and children sent to gas chambers.........unarmed and unable to stop it.....

 

[2aguy]

Smith was shot eight times and his wife twice

Hard to do that with a car.

Thank goodness for our second amendment rights

The reality is your silly anti-gunnutting makes you a laughing stock. The Right to Bare Arms, is one people like you will never take away from the American people.

If those two idiots had bare arms instead of guns we would not have these problems

You are quite right, if they didn't have guns, no one would have been shot. Congrats on pointing out the obvious. However, we live in a Country where the value of self defense is paramount. Bad actors will find a way to do bad things and kill people. Acting like the problem is Gun Ownership shows a distinct lack of understanding. I suppose that for you, blaming something other than the people involved is far easier to do. It gives you a cause "The Gun", a moral crusade to feel like you are important and are doing something to help save lives "Ending Gun Ownership" all without having to think too hard or face certain truths. You can ignore the positive value of gun ownership, because you see "The Truth".

It's kind of the same limited thinking that empowers the lunatic 9/11 troofers.

We already have a law that says the shooter was not allowed to have that gun. He broke the law, and then broke the law again and committed murder. The law abiding gun owner, didn't have his gun on his person...probably because he had been out drinking and so couldn't legally carry it....it was in his car, where he had no access to it before he was shot......he followed the law and was murdered....the criminal broke the law and murdered him.....

 

[2aguy]

SWitzerland had 435,000 armed civilians...and that fact kept the Germans from invading...the rest of Europe and Russia disarmed their civilians.......and they were all run over by the Germans...pretending that hundreds of thousands of armed civilian resistance would have made no difference to the German war plans is the lie....

and are you kidding me....the French Quarter..it's filled with crime.......

And if they pulled out a gun and shot someone over a fender bender.....they were nuts long before that night...did either of them have previous arrests for violence?

The Nazis invaded the Soviet Union and lost 8 million as a result. No way they were afraid of Switzerland

I have posted this...hitter hated the Swiss and wanted to invade...his military officers told him it would be too costly.....too many armed civilians...the rest of Erupoe and Russia disarmed their people......They were helpless after the Germans rolled over their militaries...and he would have done the same to Russia if we hadn't joined the fight.....and armed Russia.....

Now you are making me laugh

The Swiss were more fearsome than the Red Army

It's why we call you gun nuts

They couldn't successfully occupy the country with that many armed and ready civilians twit....the Swiss expected to lose to an invasion...and planned on fighting a guerilla war after the occupation.......with 435,000 armed members of the resistance...the rest of Europe and Russia disarmed their civilians...so the Germans new that once they rolled over the militaries of those countries...their civilians would have to simply submit....twit.

Nazis knew how to deal with resistance...kill you and kill your entire family
If a town supported the resistance, the whole town would be wiped out

The Swiss were too soft. They never would have endured that....the Soviets did to the tune of millions of civilian casualties

The Soviets had no retreat orders......any unit that tried to surrender would be destroyed by their own military...twit.

 

[2aguy]

Rdean has a problem with understanding right and wrong......he is a left wing regressive and as we all know, their brains do not process facts, the truth, or reality properly.....and they really can't process the difference between right and wrong....

Considering that there were 8,124 gun murders in 2014.....but each year Americans use guns to stop violent criminal attack and save lives 1,500,000 times according to bill clinton.......those numbers are hard for him to understand.......

Also...considering that there are now357,000,000 million guns in private hands...that means 356,991,876 million were not used to commit murder.....

So 356,991,876 million people owned, and carried guns for self defense and did not commit murder with those guns...

13 million Americans now own and actually carry their guns.......

and 8,124 gun murders happened...and according to research, 90% of those committing murder are already convicted criminals, and 70-80% of their victims are already convicted criminals....so normal people...carrying guns....do not randomly commit acts of murder with them.


and as more Americans own and carry guns....our gun murder rate has actually gone down....every year we have increased gun ownership......

So not one thing rdean implies with this thread has anything to do with the truth, the facts or the reality of gun ownership in the United STates....

But if neither of them had guns, a minor rear-ender would not have ended in a death and a serious injury. Maybe a bloody nose.

And if the 12 million men and women murdered by the Germans in gas chambers had had guns, they might have been able to stay alive....right?

Do you realize how many lives are saved each year by Americans with guns?

8,124 murdered with guns, most of the by career criminals murdering other criminals.....

1,500,000 times a year Americans use guns to stop violent criminal attack and save lives...according to bill clinton....

Can you grasp the significance of those numbers?

And again.....as more Americans now own and carry guns...the gun murder rate went down, not up.....from the time concealed carry started in Florida in the 90s, the number of Americans who own guns and now carry them has gone steadily up......and the gun murder rate went down....

Now we don't even have to talk about causation...that isn't the point right now....the point is....More Americans carrying guns for self defense did not increase violent crime or the gun murder rate specifically........so no matter what happened to these two men.......Americans carrying guns for self defense is not a problem...right?

I've pointed out to you before that the Anti-Crime legislation of the 90's had more to do with it than arming more Americans. You know full well that two big law abiding football players out for an evening in the French Quarter don't need guns for protection. Yet both of them had them in their pockets for no earthly reason and now one is dead.
I do wish you'd stop disrespecting the people killed in the gas chambers by making it seem they had some simple alternative to stop the Nazi's. It diminishes the evil of Hitler's machine and it makes it sound like the victims were all a bunch of sheep.

You, of course, pretend to not understand my post.....I said nothing about causation.....remember....we can argue that later...

It is true that allowing normal Americans to carrying guns did not increase violent crime or fun murder...that is a fact...so all of your complaining about these two guys means nothing.......

Again...1,500,000 million Americans use guns each year to stop violent crime and to save lives.....according to Bill Clinton........and most of the time they do this without ever firing a shot....

Your entire post...your entire belief system about guns, is wrong....normal, law abiding people, carrying guns for self defense does not increase the violent crime rate or the gun murder rate.....that is what the actual statistics have shown since states started,passing concealed carry back in the 1990s...

13,000,000 million Americans now carry guns for self defense...and the gun mirder rate went down....the violent crime rate went down.....,

Your entire belief system is wrong...

Well, it wouldn't be the first time.
What I don't understand is how you can say my argument against causation is totally wrong. Tougher crime laws slowly but surely brought down violent crime rates. You don't have any more proof than I do that it was caused by more people carrying more guns.
I will concede the point that people owning more guns did not make shootings go up significantly. But you are completely ignoring my point that if these two had not been armed--they had no need to be--this minor car accident would not have ended in one dead/one on the way to prison. You don't hesitate to use a one or two person example to make your points. So can I.

Again...wether or not it brought down crime rates is not the argument here....that is another argument that you are wrong on.

The entire belief system of you and the other anti gunners is that more guns means more gun crime and more crime in general.....that is proven wrong after 20 years of Americans owning and actually carrying more and more guns...the gun murder rate and the gun crime rate went down, not up...

So your entire belief system is wrong....normal people owning and carrying guns does not increase the gun murder rate...so any argument meant to disarm normal people has no bearing in the truth, the facts or the reality of gun ownership in this country....

Right?

Please acknowledge that point.

 

[2aguy]

Rdean has a problem with understanding right and wrong......he is a left wing regressive and as we all know, their brains do not process facts, the truth, or reality properly.....and they really can't process the difference between right and wrong....

Considering that there were 8,124 gun murders in 2014.....but each year Americans use guns to stop violent criminal attack and save lives 1,500,000 times according to bill clinton.......those numbers are hard for him to understand.......

Also...considering that there are now357,000,000 million guns in private hands...that means 356,991,876 million were not used to commit murder.....

So 356,991,876 million people owned, and carried guns for self defense and did not commit murder with those guns...

13 million Americans now own and actually carry their guns.......

and 8,124 gun murders happened...and according to research, 90% of those committing murder are already convicted criminals, and 70-80% of their victims are already convicted criminals....so normal people...carrying guns....do not randomly commit acts of murder with them.


and as more Americans own and carry guns....our gun murder rate has actually gone down....every year we have increased gun ownership......

So not one thing rdean implies with this thread has anything to do with the truth, the facts or the reality of gun ownership in the United STates....

But if neither of them had guns, a minor rear-ender would not have ended in a death and a serious injury. Maybe a bloody nose.

And if the 12 million men and women murdered by the Germans in gas chambers had had guns, they might have been able to stay alive....right?

Do you realize how many lives are saved each year by Americans with guns?

8,124 murdered with guns, most of the by career criminals murdering other criminals.....

1,500,000 times a year Americans use guns to stop violent criminal attack and save lives...according to bill clinton....

Can you grasp the significance of those numbers?

And again.....as more Americans now own and carry guns...the gun murder rate went down, not up.....from the time concealed carry started in Florida in the 90s, the number of Americans who own guns and now carry them has gone steadily up......and the gun murder rate went down....

Now we don't even have to talk about causation...that isn't the point right now....the point is....More Americans carrying guns for self defense did not increase violent crime or the gun murder rate specifically........so no matter what happened to these two men.......Americans carrying guns for self defense is not a problem...right?

I've pointed out to you before that the Anti-Crime legislation of the 90's had more to do with it than arming more Americans. You know full well that two big law abiding football players out for an evening in the French Quarter don't need guns for protection. Yet both of them had them in their pockets for no earthly reason and now one is dead.
I do wish you'd stop disrespecting the people killed in the gas chambers by making it seem they had some simple alternative to stop the Nazi's. It diminishes the evil of Hitler's machine and it makes it sound like the victims were all a bunch of sheep.

You, of course, pretend to not understand my post.....I said nothing about causation.....remember....we can argue that later...

It is true that allowing normal Americans to carrying guns did not increase violent crime or fun murder...that is a fact...so all of your complaining about these two guys means nothing.......

Again...1,500,000 million Americans use guns each year to stop violent crime and to save lives.....according to Bill Clinton........and most of the time they do this without ever firing a shot....

Your entire post...your entire belief system about guns, is wrong....normal, law abiding people, carrying guns for self defense does not increase the violent crime rate or the gun murder rate.....that is what the actual statistics have shown since states started,passing concealed carry back in the 1990s...

13,000,000 million Americans now carry guns for self defense...and the gun mirder rate went down....the violent crime rate went down.....,

Your entire belief system is wrong...

Well, it wouldn't be the first time.
What I don't understand is how you can say my argument against causation is totally wrong. Tougher crime laws slowly but surely brought down violent crime rates. You don't have any more proof than I do that it was caused by more people carrying more guns.
I will concede the point that people owning more guns did not make shootings go up significantly. But you are completely ignoring my point that if these two had not been armed--they had no need to be--this minor car accident would not have ended in one dead/one on the way to prison. You don't hesitate to use a one or two person example to make your points. So can I.

Only one of them was carrying a gun....do you realize that...the criminal who was legally forbidden from owning or carrying a gun had the gun and committed the murder.

The victim had his gun in his car and did not have it when the shooting started...so again, you are wrong.....like most of the 8,124 gun murders in this country, this murder was committed by a violent criminal...with prior illegal weapons charges.....

It had nothing to do with both of them being armed.........this thug would have murdered this guy if the guy hadn't had his gun in his car........the law abiding gun owner had no part in this shooting.

I don't use a one or two person example...I use 40 years of research into guns used for self defense....one study, done by bill clinton puts defensive gun use at 1,500,000 million times a year....

Gun murder, which has been going down since the 90s.....8,124.

Which number is bigger?

 

[rightwinger]

The Nazis invaded the Soviet Union and lost 8 million as a result. No way they were afraid of Switzerland

I have posted this...hitter hated the Swiss and wanted to invade...his military officers told him it would be too costly.....too many armed civilians...the rest of Erupoe and Russia disarmed their people......They were helpless after the Germans rolled over their militaries...and he would have done the same to Russia if we hadn't joined the fight.....and armed Russia.....

Now you are making me laugh

The Swiss were more fearsome than the Red Army

It's why we call you gun nuts

The Red army was pathetic...Stalin had purged his best generals, they were untrained, lost almost all of their war supplies to the German invasion......Stalin had placed it in locations for his invasion of Germany, but hotler beat him to it........and Russian soldiers defected in the 100,00s of thousands..........had hitler not executed his Russian prisoners and given them no chipping but to stay with Stalin...he could have easily taken over Russia.......but he hated the Russians too...and mass murdered them as we'll........

The Red army was poorly led, had no supplies and would have lost the war without the help of the United States and the stupid mistakes of hitler...read some history moron....

The Red Army defeated the Nazis

Only because we entered the war twit. If we hadn't entered the war...forcing the Germans to fight on two fronts, and if we hadn't supplied the Russians with all of their aircraft and equipment...they would have lost like everyone else did in Europe.......

More conservative revisionist history

 

[2aguy]

But if neither of them had guns, a minor rear-ender would not have ended in a death and a serious injury. Maybe a bloody nose.

And if the 12 million men and women murdered by the Germans in gas chambers had had guns, they might have been able to stay alive....right?

Do you realize how many lives are saved each year by Americans with guns?

8,124 murdered with guns, most of the by career criminals murdering other criminals.....

1,500,000 times a year Americans use guns to stop violent criminal attack and save lives...according to bill clinton....

Can you grasp the significance of those numbers?

And again.....as more Americans now own and carry guns...the gun murder rate went down, not up.....from the time concealed carry started in Florida in the 90s, the number of Americans who own guns and now carry them has gone steadily up......and the gun murder rate went down....

Now we don't even have to talk about causation...that isn't the point right now....the point is....More Americans carrying guns for self defense did not increase violent crime or the gun murder rate specifically........so no matter what happened to these two men.......Americans carrying guns for self defense is not a problem...right?

I've pointed out to you before that the Anti-Crime legislation of the 90's had more to do with it than arming more Americans. You know full well that two big law abiding football players out for an evening in the French Quarter don't need guns for protection. Yet both of them had them in their pockets for no earthly reason and now one is dead.
I do wish you'd stop disrespecting the people killed in the gas chambers by making it seem they had some simple alternative to stop the Nazi's. It diminishes the evil of Hitler's machine and it makes it sound like the victims were all a bunch of sheep.

You, of course, pretend to not understand my post.....I said nothing about causation.....remember....we can argue that later...

It is true that allowing normal Americans to carrying guns did not increase violent crime or fun murder...that is a fact...so all of your complaining about these two guys means nothing.......

Again...1,500,000 million Americans use guns each year to stop violent crime and to save lives.....according to Bill Clinton........and most of the time they do this without ever firing a shot....

Your entire post...your entire belief system about guns, is wrong....normal, law abiding people, carrying guns for self defense does not increase the violent crime rate or the gun murder rate.....that is what the actual statistics have shown since states started,passing concealed carry back in the 1990s...

13,000,000 million Americans now carry guns for self defense...and the gun mirder rate went down....the violent crime rate went down.....,

Your entire belief system is wrong...

Well, it wouldn't be the first time.
What I don't understand is how you can say my argument against causation is totally wrong. Tougher crime laws slowly but surely brought down violent crime rates. You don't have any more proof than I do that it was caused by more people carrying more guns.
I will concede the point that people owning more guns did not make shootings go up significantly. But you are completely ignoring my point that if these two had not been armed--they had no need to be--this minor car accident would not have ended in one dead/one on the way to prison. You don't hesitate to use a one or two person example to make your points. So can I.

Keep in mind where the "more guns" are going

The percentage of families owning guns has been dropping for decades. The additional guns are being bought by existing gun owners who need them to fight off Obama if he tries to confiscate them

That is a lie...that is from the General Social Survey...look at your image it is right there....the guy who runs it is an anti gunner who has stated he wants his work to encourage politicians to pass more gun laws....other research shows the opposite conclustion....

Also......no gun owner who pays attention to the gun issues is going to tell an anonymous stranger how many guns he owns.......not anymore......so those survey results are flawed on several levels...

 

[2aguy]

I have posted this...hitter hated the Swiss and wanted to invade...his military officers told him it would be too costly.....too many armed civilians...the rest of Erupoe and Russia disarmed their people......They were helpless after the Germans rolled over their militaries...and he would have done the same to Russia if we hadn't joined the fight.....and armed Russia.....

Now you are making me laugh

The Swiss were more fearsome than the Red Army

It's why we call you gun nuts

The Red army was pathetic...Stalin had purged his best generals, they were untrained, lost almost all of their war supplies to the German invasion......Stalin had placed it in locations for his invasion of Germany, but hotler beat him to it........and Russian soldiers defected in the 100,00s of thousands..........had hitler not executed his Russian prisoners and given them no chipping but to stay with Stalin...he could have easily taken over Russia.......but he hated the Russians too...and mass murdered them as we'll........

The Red army was poorly led, had no supplies and would have lost the war without the help of the United States and the stupid mistakes of hitler...read some history moron....

The Red Army defeated the Nazis

Only because we entered the war twit. If we hadn't entered the war...forcing the Germans to fight on two fronts, and if we hadn't supplied the Russians with all of their aircraft and equipment...they would have lost like everyone else did in Europe.......

More conservative revisionist history

Nope....actual history....try reading sometime.....or watch the history channel.

 

[Renae]

Smith was shot eight times and his wife twice

Hard to do that with a car.

Thank goodness for our second amendment rights

The reality is your silly anti-gunnutting makes you a laughing stock. The Right to Bare Arms, is one people like you will never take away from the American people.

If those two idiots had bare arms instead of guns we would not have these problems

You are quite right, if they didn't have guns, no one would have been shot. Congrats on pointing out the obvious. However, we live in a Country where the value of self defense is paramount. Bad actors will find a way to do bad things and kill people. Acting like the problem is Gun Ownership shows a distinct lack of understanding. I suppose that for you, blaming something other than the people involved is far easier to do. It gives you a cause "The Gun", a moral crusade to feel like you are important and are doing something to help save lives "Ending Gun Ownership" all without having to think too hard or face certain truths. You can ignore the positive value of gun ownership, because you see "The Truth".

It's kind of the same limited thinking that empowers the lunatic 9/11 troofers.

We already have a law that says the shooter was not allowed to have that gun. He broke the law, and then broke the law again and committed murder. The law abiding gun owner, didn't have his gun on his person...probably because he had been out drinking and so couldn't legally carry it....it was in his car, where he had no access to it before he was shot......he followed the law and was murdered....the criminal broke the law and murdered him.....

But 2Aguy, if we didn't ever have guns in the world, no one would have been shot! *Cue rainbows and unicorns

 

[2aguy]

Rdean has a problem with understanding right and wrong......he is a left wing regressive and as we all know, their brains do not process facts, the truth, or reality properly.....and they really can't process the difference between right and wrong....

Considering that there were 8,124 gun murders in 2014.....but each year Americans use guns to stop violent criminal attack and save lives 1,500,000 times according to bill clinton.......those numbers are hard for him to understand.......

Also...considering that there are now357,000,000 million guns in private hands...that means 356,991,876 million were not used to commit murder.....

So 356,991,876 million people owned, and carried guns for self defense and did not commit murder with those guns...

13 million Americans now own and actually carry their guns.......

and 8,124 gun murders happened...and according to research, 90% of those committing murder are already convicted criminals, and 70-80% of their victims are already convicted criminals....so normal people...carrying guns....do not randomly commit acts of murder with them.


and as more Americans own and carry guns....our gun murder rate has actually gone down....every year we have increased gun ownership......

So not one thing rdean implies with this thread has anything to do with the truth, the facts or the reality of gun ownership in the United STates....

But if neither of them had guns, a minor rear-ender would not have ended in a death and a serious injury. Maybe a bloody nose.

And if the 12 million men and women murdered by the Germans in gas chambers had had guns, they might have been able to stay alive....right?

Do you realize how many lives are saved each year by Americans with guns?

8,124 murdered with guns, most of the by career criminals murdering other criminals.....

1,500,000 times a year Americans use guns to stop violent criminal attack and save lives...according to bill clinton....

Can you grasp the significance of those numbers?

And again.....as more Americans now own and carry guns...the gun murder rate went down, not up.....from the time concealed carry started in Florida in the 90s, the number of Americans who own guns and now carry them has gone steadily up......and the gun murder rate went down....

Now we don't even have to talk about causation...that isn't the point right now....the point is....More Americans carrying guns for self defense did not increase violent crime or the gun murder rate specifically........so no matter what happened to these two men.......Americans carrying guns for self defense is not a problem...right?

I've pointed out to you before that the Anti-Crime legislation of the 90's had more to do with it than arming more Americans. You know full well that two big law abiding football players out for an evening in the French Quarter don't need guns for protection. Yet both of them had them in their pockets for no earthly reason and now one is dead.
I do wish you'd stop disrespecting the people killed in the gas chambers by making it seem they had some simple alternative to stop the Nazi's. It diminishes the evil of Hitler's machine and it makes it sound like the victims were all a bunch of sheep.

SWitzerland had 435,000 armed civilians...and that fact kept the Germans from invading...the rest of Europe and Russia disarmed their civilians.......and they were all run over by the Germans...pretending that hundreds of thousands of armed civilian resistance would have made no difference to the German war plans is the lie....

and are you kidding me....the French Quarter..it's filled with crime.......

And if they pulled out a gun and shot someone over a fender bender.....they were nuts long before that night...did either of them have previous arrests for violence?

The French Quarter is crawling with undercover cops. You don't see them but the thugs know they're there. The violent crimes committed in New Orleans happen elsewhere, according to a native who both lives there and owns a business in the Quarter.
Will Smith got killed because it's our American opinion that it's fine and dandy to be carrying loaded weapons around on Saturday night in a good neighborhood. I do not agree either of them were nuts.

Wrong.....the guy who shot Smith was a convicted criminal who could not legally own or carry that gun...in fact, he should have been in jail.....Smith's gun, the legally owned gun, was still in his car.......the criminal used his illegal gun to murder Smith....

How do you know a neighborhood is good...is Joe Biden's neighborhood good....you know where the family, husband, wife, 9 year old son and maid were all tortured and murdered...that neighborhood?

Or the neighborhood where the doctor and his wife and daughters were attacked by the two monsters.....in a nice upper middle class neighborhood, the wife and 2 daughters raped and murdered, the Doctor brutally beaten, but he survived.....

You mean those nice neighborhoods?

 

[rightwinger]

Now you are making me laugh

The Swiss were more fearsome than the Red Army

It's why we call you gun nuts

The Red army was pathetic...Stalin had purged his best generals, they were untrained, lost almost all of their war supplies to the German invasion......Stalin had placed it in locations for his invasion of Germany, but hotler beat him to it........and Russian soldiers defected in the 100,00s of thousands..........had hitler not executed his Russian prisoners and given them no chipping but to stay with Stalin...he could have easily taken over Russia.......but he hated the Russians too...and mass murdered them as we'll........

The Red army was poorly led, had no supplies and would have lost the war without the help of the United States and the stupid mistakes of hitler...read some history moron....

The Red Army defeated the Nazis

Only because we entered the war twit. If we hadn't entered the war...forcing the Germans to fight on two fronts, and if we hadn't supplied the Russians with all of their aircraft and equipment...they would have lost like everyone else did in Europe.......

More conservative revisionist history

Nope....actual history....try reading sometime.....or watch the history channel.

Read about Stalingrad and Kursk and get back to me

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

If those two idiots had bare arms instead of guns we would not have these problems

Correct. There would be no more murders, robberies, or assaults, just like in all those European countries where people can't have guns. And remember how we stopped drug use in this country after we made them illegal?

 

[rightwinger]

If those two idiots had bare arms instead of guns we would not have these problems

Correct. There would be no more murders, robberies, or assaults, just like in all those European countries where people can't have guns. And remember how we stopped drug use in this country after we made them illegal?

Somewhat of an odd logic wouldn't you agree?

Just because we can't stop all gun crimes we shouldn't try to stop any

I'll take Europe's murder rates over ours any day

 

[2aguy]

The Red army was pathetic...Stalin had purged his best generals, they were untrained, lost almost all of their war supplies to the German invasion......Stalin had placed it in locations for his invasion of Germany, but hotler beat him to it........and Russian soldiers defected in the 100,00s of thousands..........had hitler not executed his Russian prisoners and given them no chipping but to stay with Stalin...he could have easily taken over Russia.......but he hated the Russians too...and mass murdered them as we'll........

The Red army was poorly led, had no supplies and would have lost the war without the help of the United States and the stupid mistakes of hitler...read some history moron....

The Red Army defeated the Nazis

Only because we entered the war twit. If we hadn't entered the war...forcing the Germans to fight on two fronts, and if we hadn't supplied the Russians with all of their aircraft and equipment...they would have lost like everyone else did in Europe.......

More conservative revisionist history

Nope....actual history....try reading sometime.....or watch the history channel.

Read about Stalingrad and Kursk and get back to me

Yeah.....again....if we hadn't entered the war Germany would not have had to fight on two fronts....they had to redirect troops against us that deprived them from the Russian theater at a couple of pretty key moments in the war...including Stalin Grad....they needed our vehicles and equipment...because being a socialist country they couldn't produce the stuff on their own especially after they lost so much of their war material when the staged it for the invasion of Gemany...and the Germans invaded first, capturing all of it.

Stalin murdered his best Generals because he was paranoid...this was bad in two ways for WW2...his best Generals were dead...and since he murdered them, it created a hesitancy in the guys who took their places....

The Russian military at first lost whole units to the Germans when they invaded...they surrendered......sadly for them they didn't realize that hitler was another socialist monster who promptly executed them......thereby stiffening their resolve to fight for their own side...

A lot of things happened that almost lost the war for the Russians.......we saved them.

This article looks at the Soviets during world war 2, their intention to invade the west, which was beaten by Germany invading two weeks early and why they lost so quickly at first...

Russia In World War 2

But what Russian historiography censored for decades, is the large scale of total morale collapse of Soviet armed forces and Communist party establishments which escaped, 'disappeared', or surrendered before they even were engaged in battle. Millions, from privates to Generals, individually or as entire units, abandoned their tanks, guns, air bases, without battle, and escaped on vehicles or on foot, or simply disappeared into the nearby villages and forests.

Fighting and then losing is one thing. Massive and rapid escape without a fight and massive voluntary surrender, are another, and Soviet censorship tried to hide that, by further intensifying the myth of the destructiveness of the German attack, and by further intensifying the belief that the entire red army was right on the border.

There are reports of entire unit staffs which escaped without battle and were found again hundreds of kilometers to the East.

There were tens of Generals who disappeared and were never located again. There are reports of tank divisions which, although they were not right on the border and were not engaged in fighting in the first day, miraculously 'lost' 100% of their tanks and other fighting equipment in the second day of fighting, without actually being engaged in battle, and then escaped hundreds of kilometers eastwards almost without losing a single truck even to technical malfunction.

There are reports of entire Air Force regiments which reported that they suffered negligible or no losses in the air or on the ground at the first day, and then simply abandoned their air bases and escaped by trucks and on foot. I

n 1941 Russia lost millions of soldiers. Only 32% of the reported losses were the dead and wounded. Millions surrendered, many of them as fast as they could, and so many others escaped from the front, either disappeared or remained in service, but only after a distant escape and after abandoning every weapon or equipment, even rifles and light mortars, that could force them to stay and fight.
The apparent reasons for this mass unwillingness to fight were:

• A further intensified mental shock of those who were always trained educated and taught others that attack and victory are the only possible option, and suddenly found themselves under massive surprise attack for which they never planned or prepared.

• Stalin, the murderous dictator, was surrounded with people who told him much too often what he wanted to hear about Russia's preparations for war. The enormous reported numbers of material production and manpower training were perhaps correct. For example the figures of vast mass-training of pilots (which, by the way, were NOT volunteers, unlike pilots anywhere else in the world), and received minimal training, in order to keep up with the enormous training quotas dictated by Stalin.
• But what Stalin never suspected, was the possibility that in his regime of mass terror and fear, where so many millions were imprisoned and millions others killed by the police, and where tens of millions starved for years in order to pay for the enormous cost of the vast effort to convert Russia with a period of just two decades from a mostly agricultural country to an industrial militarist super-power with gigantic military power.
• Stalin never suspected that under a massive attack on his brutal regime, the people, the millions of soldiers who previously suffered from the regime, millions were former political prisoners of which many were recruited from hard labor prisons directly to war front military service, will favor surrender to defending their homeland, or will have no willingness to fight immediately as they realized that since they're country is being massively attacked there's a good chance that they can escape from the war without being punished by the formidable regime. Given the possibility that for the first time in their life non-cooperation with the Communist regime will NOT be severely punished, so many favored that option, and that's something the Russian censorship could never admit.
• 
  So while in all material aspects Russia was enormously prepared for war, and could therefore theoretically manage much better than it did, even under a massive surprise attack, in morale terms, the Russian people in the front (which rapidly moved East all across the long front), were generally unwilling to fight for their terrible terror regime once fear of it was lost since the regime itself was being attacked and in danger.

Click to expand...
Also...The Biggest Mistakes In World War 2

• In 1941, Stalin received a stream of information from military intelligence and spies, that Germany is going to invade Russia, as Hitler promised since the 1920s. After discussions, Stalin decided that the information was inconclusive and perhaps deliberate disinformation, and decided that there will be no invasion.
• As the invasion came nearer, the stream of information indicating invasion intensified, but then Stalin forbid his advisors from further disturbing him with it.
• Anyone who still suggested that there might be a German invasion, risked execution. Fear was such that when the invasion started, no one dared to awake Stalin and tell him about it, until Zhukov, the deputy supreme commander, told Stalin's bodyguards that he takes responsibility for awakening the dictator and telling him the bad news.

• Both Hitler and Stalin refused to allow retreats, as a matter of principle and regardless of the military situation. Hundreds of thousands of soldiers in each side died in vain because they were not allowed to retreat when was necessary. Russia almost lost the war because of that in 1941, and Hitler's army suffered horrible losses because of that, mainly in the winter of 1942 and in Stalingrad a year later.

Until April 1941, Russia was at war with Japan in the far East, and in 1941-1942 it fought desperately against the German invasion. But since the end of the battle of Stalingrad in Feb. 1943, Russia knew that it was going to win the war, and that Germany and Japan were losing it. It was convenient for Russia to focus entirely on defeating Germany and leave the war against Japan entirely to the US, which also provided Russia with enormous material support.


During the war, Russia provided air bases for British heavy bombers which bombed Germany, but refused to provide such bases for American bombers in the Russian far East, apparently in return for a quiet Japanese agreement not to attack American supply convoys sailing to Russia's far East ports.
And from wikipedia...

Soviet Union in World War II - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In the initial hours after the German attack commenced, Stalin hesitated, wanting to ensure that the German attack was sanctioned by Hitler, rather than the unauthorized action of a rogue general.[SUP][53][/SUP] Accounts by Nikita Khrushchev and Anastas Mikoyan claim that, after the invasion, Stalin retreated to his dacha in despair for several days and did not participate in leadership decisions.[SUP][54][/SUP] However, some documentary evidence of orders given by Stalin contradicts these accounts, leading some historians to speculate that Khrushchev's account is inaccurate.[SUP][55][/SUP]


In the first three weeks of the invasion, attempting to defend against large German advances, the Soviet Union suffered 750,000 casualties, and lost 10,000 tanks and 4,000 aircraft.[SUP][56][/SUP] In July 1940, Stalin completely reorganized the Soviet military, placing himself directly in charge of several military organizations, which gave him complete control of his country's entire war effort; more control than any other leader in World War II.[SUP][57][/SUP]
A pattern soon emerged where Stalin embraced the Red Army's strategy of conducting multiple offensives, while the Germans soon overran each of the resulting small newly gained grounds, dealing the Soviets severe casualties.[SUP][58][/SUP] The most notable example of this was the Battle of Kiev, where over 600,000 Soviet troops were quickly killed, captured or had gone missing.[SUP][58][/SUP]


By the end of 1941, the Soviet military had suffered 4.3 million casualties[SUP][59][/SUP] and the Germans had captured 3.0 million Soviet prisoners, 2.0 million of which would die in German captivity by February 1942.[SUP][56][/SUP]


German forces had advanced c. 1,700 kilometers, and maintained a linearly-measured front of 3,000 kilometers.[SUP][60][/SUP] The Red Army put up fierce resistance during the war's early stages.

Even so, according to Glantz, they were plagued by an ineffective defense doctrine against well-trained and experienced German forces, despite possessing some modern Soviet equipment such as theKV-1 and T-34 tanks.
Click to expand...



At the same time, worried by the possibility of American support after their entry into the war following the Attack on Pearl Harbor, and a potential Anglo-American invasion on the Western Front in 1942 (which would not actually happen until 1944),

Hitler shifted his primary goal from an immediate victory in the East, to the more long-term goal of securing the southern Soviet Union to protect oil fields vital to the long-term German war effort.[SUP][69[/SUP]

The Germans did attempt an encirclement attack at Kursk, which was successfully repulsed by the Soviets[SUP][78][/SUP] after Hitler canceled the offensive, in part, because of the Allied invasion of Sicily,[SUP][79][/SUP] though the Soviets suffered over 800,000 casualties.[SUP][80][/SUP]


Yeah, it is hard to understand the Soviets...



also from wikipedia on the Red Army...

Red Army - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The unprepared Soviet forces suffered much damage in the field because of mediocre officers, partial mobilization, an incomplete reorganization and mainly because they were arranged to attack Central Europe, and not to defend Soviet territory.[SUP][39][/SUP] The hasty pre-war forces expansion and the over-promotion of inexperienced officers (owing to the purging of experienced officers) favored the Wehrmacht in combat.[SUP][39][/SUP]
And another great mistake by Stalin that almost lost the war for the Soviets...

Purges

Further information: Case of Trotskyist Anti-Soviet Military Organization
The late 1930s saw the so-called Purges of the Red Army Cadres, which occurred concurrently with Stalin's Great Purge of Soviet society. In 1936 and 1937, at the orders of Stalin, thousands of Red Army officers were dismissed from their commands. The purges had the objective of cleansing the Red Army of the "politically unreliable elements", mainly among higher-ranking officers. This inevitably provided a convenient pretext for the settling of personal vendettas or to eliminate competition by officers seeking the same command. Many army, corps, and divisional commanders were sacked, most were imprisoned or sent to labor camps; others were executed. Among the victims was the Red Army's primary military theorist, Marshal Mikhail Tukhachevsky, perceived by Stalin as a potential political rival. Officers who remained soon found all of their decisions being closely examined by political officers, even in mundane matters such as record-keeping and field training exercises.[SUP][72][/SUP] An atmosphere of fear and unwillingness to take the initiative soon pervaded the Red Army; suicide rates among junior officers rose to record levels.[SUP][72][/SUP] Most historians believe that the purges significantly impaired the combat capabilities of the Red Army. However, the extent of the consequential damage attributable to them is still debated.
Recently declassified data indicate that in 1937, at the height of the Purges, the Red Army had 114,300 officers, of whom 11,034 were dismissed. In 1938, the Red Army had 179,000 officers, 56% more than in 1937, of whom a further 6,742 were sacked. In the highest echelons of the Red Army the Purges removed 3 of 5 marshals, 13 of 15 army generals, 8 of 9 admirals, 50 of 57 army corps generals, 154 out of 186 division generals, 16 of 16 army commissars, and 25 of 28 army corps commissars.[SUP][73][/SUP]
The result was that the Red Army officer corps in 1941 had many inexperienced senior officers. While 60% of regimental commanders had two years or more of command experience in June 1941, and almost 80% of rifle division commanders, only 20% of corps commanders, and 5% or fewer army and military district commanders, had the same level of experience.[SUP][74][/SUP]

 

[2aguy]

If those two idiots had bare arms instead of guns we would not have these problems

Correct. There would be no more murders, robberies, or assaults, just like in all those European countries where people can't have guns. And remember how we stopped drug use in this country after we made them illegal?

Somewhat of an odd logic wouldn't you agree?

Just because we can't stop all gun crimes we shouldn't try to stop any

I'll take Europe's murder rates over ours any day

Europes murder rate has nothing to do with access to guns...their criminals get all the guns they want or need....they simply do not commit murder as a criminal sub culture as much as our criminals do.........they get all the guns they want, they just don't pull the trigger....and no..that doesn't mean they are less violent...British criminals are far more violent in general than American criminals, but they just don't commit murder against each other or against their victims as often....but that too is changing....

 

[Uncensored2008]

[

What part of a well regulated militia don't you understand?

How can we regulate our militias if we don't know who the gun owners are?

Oh look, Shitflinger is lying again. must be a day ending in "Y"

"Regulated" = Armed.

You know this, it's been shoved down your lying throat a dozen times.

 

[2aguy]

The Red army was pathetic...Stalin had purged his best generals, they were untrained, lost almost all of their war supplies to the German invasion......Stalin had placed it in locations for his invasion of Germany, but hotler beat him to it........and Russian soldiers defected in the 100,00s of thousands..........had hitler not executed his Russian prisoners and given them no chipping but to stay with Stalin...he could have easily taken over Russia.......but he hated the Russians too...and mass murdered them as we'll........

The Red army was poorly led, had no supplies and would have lost the war without the help of the United States and the stupid mistakes of hitler...read some history moron....

The Red Army defeated the Nazis

Only because we entered the war twit. If we hadn't entered the war...forcing the Germans to fight on two fronts, and if we hadn't supplied the Russians with all of their aircraft and equipment...they would have lost like everyone else did in Europe.......

More conservative revisionist history

Nope....actual history....try reading sometime.....or watch the history channel.

Read about Stalingrad and Kursk and get back to me

Yeah...you were saying about Kursk....the allied invasion of Sicily allowed the Soviet success at Kursk....

Hitler shifted his primary goal from an immediate victory in the East, to the more long-term goal of securing the southern Soviet Union to protect oil fields vital to the long-term German war effort.[SUP][69[/SUP]

The Germans did attempt an encirclement attack at Kursk, which was successfully repulsed by the Soviets[SUP][78][/SUP] after Hitler canceled the offensive, in part, because of the Allied invasion of Sicily,[SUP][79][/SUP] though the Soviets suffered over 800,000 casualties.[SUP][80][/SUP]