Mike Huckabee is the next president of the U.S.

[Lookout]

"If you don't believe that you came from God, Then where did you come from? Is your ancestry a monkey? a fish? an ameba?"


Yes, that's exactly it. There is a reason Whales have digits and Platypus has a bill. There is a reason scales and feathers connect birds and reptiles. Why we have fingernails and pubic hair, apendix and wisdom teeth. It may make a person feel better about their circumstance if they think they are part of some godly plan insted of the product of natural selection but the belief of pharoes didn't make them gods either so.... I"LL stick with the science.

And just because there is no absolute smoking gun that there is a God does not mean there isn't. Science and all its achievements is in fact proving the existance of ID. Darwin was very incomplete in most of his assessments including natural selection. The universe coming to life all on its own as an accident makes as much sense as 911 was accomplished by 19 terrorists with box knives controlled by some old guy on diallasis in a cave 12000 miles away.

 

[Shogun]

Likewise, just because i've never seen a flying speghetti monster doesnt' mean that he inst god with his noodly appendanges..

Would you agree that god has every bit the same chance of being the FSM as a jewish dude in this reality of total lack of evidence? If not, why?

Science is no more proving ID than it is proving that the "I" happens to be your particular god. But, I'll bite. Show me this proof of which you speak. I'm a big fan of evidence thanks to SCIENCE, you know.

Darwin was a naturalist from an era when general medicine had more in common with Frankenstein than our modern medicine. So he didn't spell out the full picture. So what. His observations about natural selection have been shown more accurate than mythology all day long. IN fact, notice the tone of the evidence I provide.


Weather or not YOU think the science makes sense is about as insignificant as the Geocentrists telling Copernicus that heliocentrism makes no sense since obviously the sun rises and falls AROUND the earth. Take the lesson that Copernicus and Galileo illustrates so well. The standard of science is EVIDENCE not faith. I promise that EVIDENCE trumps what you think makes sense all day long.



Here are my evidence that the premise of your post regarding science proving ID is in total error. Feel free to post your own sources in rebuttal.


Vatican Astronomer: Intelligent Design Not Science
VATICAN CITY — The Vatican's chief astronomer said Friday that "intelligent design" isn't science and doesn't belong in science classrooms, becoming the latest high-ranking Roman Catholic official to enter the evolution debate in the United States.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,176050,00.html


Grow Some Testables
Intelligent design ducks the rigors of science.
Four months ago, when evolution and "intelligent design" (ID) squared off in Kansas, I defended ID as a more evolved version of creationism. ID posits that complex systems in nature must have been designed by an intelligent agent. The crucial step forward is ID's concession that "observation, hypothesis testing, measurement, experimentation, logical argument and theory building"—not scriptural authority—define science. Having acknowledged that standard, advocates of ID must now demonstrate how hypotheses based on it can be tested by experiment or observation. Otherwise, ID isn't science.
http://www.slate.com/id/2127052/


Physics Society President Says Intelligent Design Should Not be Taught as Science
Marvin Cohen, president of the American Physical Society (APS), has stated that only scientifically validated theories, such as evolution, should be taught in the nation’s science classes. He made this statement in response to recently reported remarks of President Bush about intelligent design, which is a type of creationism.
http://www.physorg.com/news5618.html


Importance of Teaching Evolution Stressed in New Report
WASHINGTON — Scientific advisers to the government emphasize in a report the importance of teaching evolution in public schools.

The report by the National Academy of Sciences and its Institute of Medicine follows up on similar past publications, the last of which came out in 1999.

The new document includes recently discovered evidence supporting evolution, including an important fossil find.

The report released Thursday also takes swipes at creationism and other anti-evolution views.

"Despite the lack of scientific evidence for creationist positions, some advocates continue to demand that various forms of creationism be taught together with or in place of evolution in science classes," the report says.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,320287,00.html

 

[mattskramer]

And just because there is no absolute smoking gun that there is a God does not mean there isn't. Science and all its achievements is in fact proving the existance of ID. Darwin was very incomplete in most of his assessments including natural selection. The universe coming to life all on its own as an accident makes as much sense as 911 was accomplished by 19 terrorists with box knives controlled by some old guy on diallasis in a cave 12000 miles away.

You can’t prove that something does not exist. Yet, science is answering many questions. We understand that lightning is not the result of an angry Zeus trying to strike people. Rain is not tears from a sad god. I doubt that we will ever have absolute proof that God exists or does not exist. Even if we find scientific explanation for everything, it does not mean that there is no god standing beside it doing nothing. Call me an agnostic.

 

[Lookout]

Likewise, just because i've never seen a flying speghetti monster doesnt' mean that he inst god with his noodly appendanges..

Would you agree that god has every bit the same chance of being the FSM as a jewish dude in this reality of total lack of evidence? If not, why?

Science is no more proving ID than it is proving that the "I" happens to be your particular god. But, I'll bite. Show me this proof of which you speak. I'm a big fan of evidence thanks to SCIENCE, you know.

Darwin was a naturalist from an era when general medicine had more in common with Frankenstein than our modern medicine. So he didn't spell out the full picture. So what. His observations about natural selection have been shown more accurate than mythology all day long. IN fact, notice the tone of the evidence I provide.


Weather or not YOU think the science makes sense is about as insignificant as the Geocentrists telling Copernicus that heliocentrism makes no sense since obviously the sun rises and falls AROUND the earth. Take the lesson that Copernicus and Galileo illustrates so well. The standard of science is EVIDENCE not faith. I promise that EVIDENCE trumps what you think makes sense all day long.



Here are my evidence that the premise of your post regarding science proving ID is in total error. Feel free to post your own sources in rebuttal.


Vatican Astronomer: Intelligent Design Not Science
VATICAN CITY — The Vatican's chief astronomer said Friday that "intelligent design" isn't science and doesn't belong in science classrooms, becoming the latest high-ranking Roman Catholic official to enter the evolution debate in the United States.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,176050,00.html


Grow Some Testables
Intelligent design ducks the rigors of science.
Four months ago, when evolution and "intelligent design" (ID) squared off in Kansas, I defended ID as a more evolved version of creationism. ID posits that complex systems in nature must have been designed by an intelligent agent. The crucial step forward is ID's concession that "observation, hypothesis testing, measurement, experimentation, logical argument and theory building"—not scriptural authority—define science. Having acknowledged that standard, advocates of ID must now demonstrate how hypotheses based on it can be tested by experiment or observation. Otherwise, ID isn't science.
http://www.slate.com/id/2127052/


Physics Society President Says Intelligent Design Should Not be Taught as Science
Marvin Cohen, president of the American Physical Society (APS), has stated that only scientifically validated theories, such as evolution, should be taught in the nation’s science classes. He made this statement in response to recently reported remarks of President Bush about intelligent design, which is a type of creationism.
http://www.physorg.com/news5618.html


Importance of Teaching Evolution Stressed in New Report
WASHINGTON — Scientific advisers to the government emphasize in a report the importance of teaching evolution in public schools.

The report by the National Academy of Sciences and its Institute of Medicine follows up on similar past publications, the last of which came out in 1999.

The new document includes recently discovered evidence supporting evolution, including an important fossil find.

The report released Thursday also takes swipes at creationism and other anti-evolution views.

"Despite the lack of scientific evidence for creationist positions, some advocates continue to demand that various forms of creationism be taught together with or in place of evolution in science classes," the report says.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,320287,00.html

http://www.cosmicfingerprints.com/ifyoucanreadthis1.htm

 

[Shogun]

You are kidding me, right? Having a little fun BEFORE posting you actual evidence?

 

[Lookout]

You are kidding me, right? Having a little fun BEFORE posting you actual evidence?

I give up Shogun...You win.

 

[jillian]

http://www.cosmicfingerprints.com/ifyoucanreadthis1.htm

Well, certainly shows the world is full of cool stuff. But doesn't prove the existence of G-d. That's still based on one's faith.

Reminds me of this movie Pi where they opined that everything in the universe was based in the number pi and that somehow the patterns that came from that were the secret to the universe and contained in the torah, as well.

 

[Gunny]

I would have felt the same way about the people who imprisoned Galileo. I think it's a legit call...

If he *chooses* to believe that against all scientific evidence to the contrary, then he is free to stay a minister. He isn't equipped to be president of the U.S.

I totally disagree.

Scientific evidence is only valid within Man's intellect, and science itself revises/corrects itself daily. To say science is 100% correct and anything beyond it is not, is pure wishful thinking.

 

[Gunny]

I used to like that idea. But, ten percent of poverty = even less food. Ten percent of only the income you choose not to hide = about the same as today.

A consumption tax gets everyone, rich, poor, criminal, tourist.

It doesn't lend my money to the .gov at no interest yet impose a penalty on me if they didn't withold enough. And it doesn't require a gestapo to enforce.

Tell me you aren't going through the same not enough withheld because you don't pay SS out fo your retirement that I am?

 

[Gunny]

"If you don't believe that you came from God, Then where did you come from? Is your ancestry a monkey? a fish? an ameba?"


Yes, that's exactly it. There is a reason Whales have digits and Platypus has a bill. There is a reason scales and feathers connect birds and reptiles. Why we have fingernails and pubic hair, apendix and wisdom teeth. It may make a person feel better about their circumstance if they think they are part of some godly plan insted of the product of natural selection but the belief of pharoes didn't make them gods either so.... I"LL stick with the science.

Well yeah, except there's about as much evidence to support that scientific specualtion as there is to support God.

 

[jillian]

I totally disagree.

Scientific evidence is only valid within Man's intellect, and science itself revises/corrects itself daily. To say science is 100% correct and anything beyond it is not, is pure wishful thinking.

Science is based on the best information available at a given point in time. And it does change as new information is gathered; new discoveries made.

What it isn't... is religion. And anyone who would reject the best information available to us at a given time is too ignorant to be president... or at least isn't any president I would want.

 

[Shogun]

I give up Shogun...You win.

Im not trying to win. I'm trying to get you to think critically about your beliefs since they seem to have an influence on your politics. But, I will say, it never ceases to amaze me how few cristians have ever put the smack down on me in this type of discussion. It doesn't reflect positively about the cognitive function of dogma lovers.

 

[Shogun]

Well yeah, except there's about as much evidence to support that scientific specualtion as there is to support God.

yeea... except for the fossil record, astrophysics, DNA, genetic mutations, animals ranging from the Platypus to winged mammals, Geology, Mitochondrial DNA, carbon dating, elemental half-lifes, plate techtonics and the entire relevant scientific community making clear which is SCIENCE and which is clearly not....


sure, beyond all of that I'd say you are right. Hell, what can all that physical evidence say in the face of individual dogmatic faith...

 

[mattskramer]

yeea... except for the fossil record, astrophysics, DNA, genetic mutations, animals ranging from the Platypus to winged mammals, Geology, Mitochondrial DNA, carbon dating, elemental half-lifes, plate techtonics and the entire relevant scientific community making clear which is SCIENCE and which is clearly not....


sure, beyond all of that I'd say you are right. Hell, what can all that physical evidence say in the face of individual dogmatic faith...

There are gaps in the fossil record. I am still looking for the short-neck and medium neck giraffe. Even if those scientific explanations exist, it does not negate the possibility that god sat beside this evolution. Have you heard of the spinning top theory? God may have got things started and then sat back and did nothing. Such a notion might make god irrelevant but it does not mean that he does not exist. I’m not going to say that there is no god. I’m not going to say that there is a god.

 

[Shogun]

Gaps do not minimize actual physical evidence. You learn to live a million years and then you can collect a sample from lucy on down the line. As it is, the dogma junkies asked for evidence and I provided specific examples of such.


Sure, god might also be an alien with more in common with L. Ron Hubbard than Moses. This is why we look for physical evidence instead of my opinion that god is a big ball of flying speghetti.



What I find fascinating about dogma myths is that, generally, they speak to the lack of knowledge about some kind of unexplainable physical occurance. With the abrahamic sects, however, the motivation is not simply Enlightenment but an actual plan by a god. It could very well be the case that "god", in a very 2001 space odysey way, wants to evolve humanity into what amounts to cosmic company since we know that he tried and failed doing the same type of thing when creating angels. I think it owuld be interesting to discuss the possible motivation of a god who chose to create the earth and humans the way described rather than accept the biblical explanation which is purposefully obscure and lacks any kind of insight.


It's funny how the thumperswill ask what came before the big bang.. when I'm still curious where their god came from and why he's not out hitting on female gods while messing around with his toy humans.

 

[AllieBaba]

Shogun, your perception of putting the smack down on the bible or whatever unfortunate turn of phrase you used, is at odds with the reality.

Just because you feel assured that you've made your point doesn't mean you have. In fact, frequently, I think you completely forget what the point you're trying to make is..and in that event, you switch paddles and claim victory because nobody knows where it is you've gone to.

There's no evidence which proves how the world was created. There's no evidence which proves your belief (and that's what it is) that it wasn't God, or that it was a particular random scientific process.

There's no proof. You can poke at the Bible all you want. But you don't have anything to back it up, except your own conviction that you're right.

 

[Dr Grump]

Shogun, your perception of putting the smack down on the bible or whatever unfortunate turn of phrase you used, is at odds with the reality.

Just because you feel assured that you've made your point doesn't mean you have. In fact, frequently, I think you completely forget what the point you're trying to make is..and in that event, you switch paddles and claim victory because nobody knows where it is you've gone to.

There's no evidence which proves how the world was created. There's no evidence which proves your belief (and that's what it is) that it wasn't God, or that it was a particular random scientific process.

There's no proof. You can poke at the Bible all you want. But you don't have anything to back it up, except your own conviction that you're right.

There is plenty of scientific evidence of how the universe was created, but no definitive proof.

There is NO evidence OR proof that the miracles etc, or that Jesus was the son of a god, except in the bible, which provides neither evidence or proof. It is all based on faith. Nothing more..

 

[Shogun]

you know.. saying that over and over and over again like a hari krishna trying to hand you a flower at the airport probably won't make it any truer.


If you'd like to debate specific passages of the bible then feel free to call me out. Otherwise, i;ll give yo a free pass just this once. Science is a method of observations and evidence. If your standard only allowed what could be proven then we'd still be back to geocentricism. As it stands, there is the list above that is evidence for non-biblical theories that you can argue with while matching me with your own evidence proving your own opinion. When you come back with some of that ammo we can have this conversation again. Im just not interested in putting forth the effort if you won't even try to do the same.


As far as the bible is concerned, again, list the specific scripture that you want to defend and let's take 20 paces. You;d claim the same thing about a christian interpretation outside of your flavour of dogma anyway but Im always willing to take on christian challengers.

Hve a great evening, Ms Baba!

 

[pegwinn]

Tell me you aren't going through the same not enough withheld because you don't pay SS out fo your retirement that I am?

One and the same. The old IG would have called this "a trend". Those words on a report normally spelled RELIEF, for cause.

The other thing that pisses me off. I will get penalized for innovating, working harder, and making more. So why bother? Might as well go into debt, quit my job, declare bankruptcy, and avoid the whole situation.

Oh man, I was almost on a rant. It's not time for the annual tax rant, but it's coming.

Ask your friends this.... Would you rather pay taxes on the money you earn, or the money you spend?

 

[Annie]

One and the same. The old IG would have called this "a trend". Those words on a report normally spelled RELIEF, for cause.

The other thing that pisses me off. I will get penalized for innovating, working harder, and making more. So why bother? Might as well go into debt, quit my job, declare bankruptcy, and avoid the whole situation.

Oh man, I was almost on a rant. It's not time for the annual tax rant, but it's coming.

Ask your friends this.... Would you rather pay taxes on the money you earn, or the money you spend?

and for those of us that need to spend all that we earn, to make it? Talk about a transfer of debt.