Message to Libertarians and others: The founding fathers believed in regulation

[bripat9643]

"Well regulated" has been defined and interepreted by the Courts to mean the exact same thing it meant when it was ratified: Disciplined and orderly (and well equipped), like the term "Well-regulated clock."

"The Constitution was not written by Ayn Rand, but instead by James Madison and other practical politicians." - Economic Regulation in the United States: The Constitutional Framework » University of Richmond Law Review

The Constitution also wasn't written by the University of Richmond Law Review.

Appeal to authority - a logical fallacy.

 

[Dante]

Wrong. Monopolies are always bad. The government enforced type are the worse. In fact, they are the only kind.

a primer: A History Of U.S. Monopolies

one correction in the linked article: "The break up of AT&T by Reagan in the 1980s gave birth to the "baby bells"." what happened under Reagan was the culmination of a break up that was almost two decades in the making

AT&T was a government enforce monopoly, dunce.

Yes it was and it worked well. The break up took so long partly because of battles over who would get Bell Labs and other assets. The Baby Bells won lots and screwed the public.

A dear friend was part of a suit by against companies. They/we won years later, but monoploies work

Europeans and people in other areas have better and faster and cheaper internet and other services than dumb fuckin Americans

 

[Dante]

"Well regulated" has been defined and interepreted by the Courts to mean the exact same thing it meant when it was ratified: Disciplined and orderly (and well equipped), like the term "Well-regulated clock."

"The Constitution was not written by Ayn Rand, but instead by James Madison and other practical politicians." - Economic Regulation in the United States: The Constitutional Framework » University of Richmond Law Review

The Constitution also wasn't written by the University of Richmond Law Review.

Appeal to authority - a logical fallacy.

Dope. No appeal to an authority, only a link to an informed opinion. An opinion you have difficulty challenging in a coherent or rational manner

 

[bripat9643]

a primer: A History Of U.S. Monopolies

one correction in the linked article: "The break up of AT&T by Reagan in the 1980s gave birth to the "baby bells"." what happened under Reagan was the culmination of a break up that was almost two decades in the making

AT&T was a government enforced monopoly, dunce.

Yes it was and it worked well. The break up took so long partly because of battles over who would get Bell Labs and other assets. The Baby Bells won lots and screwed the public.

A dear friend was part of a suit by against companies. They/we won years later, but monoploies work

"It worked well?" Remember those huge dial phones you used to have to rent from the phone company for $20/month? Remember paying $2.00 a minute to call the nearest state? Remember paying $0.25/min to call anyone out of your area code? Remember $100 phone bills when you made only local calls?

What was great about Ma Bell?

The rest of your post is science fiction.

Monopolies "work" only if your idea of working is raping, pillaging and looting.

uropeans and people in other areas have better and faster and cheaper internet and other services than dumb fuckin Americans

Horseshit.

 

[Dante]

AT&T was a government enforced monopoly, dunce.

Yes it was and it worked well. The break up took so long partly because of battles over who would get Bell Labs and other assets. The Baby Bells won lots and screwed the public.

A dear friend was part of a suit by against companies. They/we won years later, but monoploies work

"It worked well?" Remember those huge dial phones you used to have to rent from the phone company for $20/month? Remember paying $2.00 a minute to call the nearest state? Remember paying $0.25/min to call anyone out of your area code? Remember $100 phone bills when you made only local calls?

What was great about Ma Bell?

The rest of your post is science fiction.

Monopolies "work" only if your idea of working is raping, pillaging and looting.

uropeans and people in other areas have better and faster and cheaper internet and other services than dumb fuckin Americans

Horseshit.

The technological advances happened under that monopoly. Parasites later took it and made a race to the bottom.

Oh yeah, 2, 3 year contracts and those data plans that bankrupted peoples bank accounts, the hidden contract language...


jesus, you're not a shill after all...you're an imbecile

 

[bripat9643]

"The Constitution was not written by Ayn Rand, but instead by James Madison and other practical politicians." - Economic Regulation in the United States: The Constitutional Framework » University of Richmond Law Review

The Constitution also wasn't written by the University of Richmond Law Review.

Appeal to authority - a logical fallacy.

Dope. No appeal to an authority, only a link to an informed opinion. An opinion you have difficulty challenging in a coherent or rational manner

There legal opinion is worthless. Whether monopolies are beneficial or not is an economic issue, not a legal issue.

 

[bripat9643]

Yes it was and it worked well. The break up took so long partly because of battles over who would get Bell Labs and other assets. The Baby Bells won lots and screwed the public.

A dear friend was part of a suit by against companies. They/we won years later, but monoploies work

"It worked well?" Remember those huge dial phones you used to have to rent from the phone company for $20/month? Remember paying $2.00 a minute to call the nearest state? Remember paying $0.25/min to call anyone out of your area code? Remember $100 phone bills when you made only local calls?

What was great about Ma Bell?

The rest of your post is science fiction.

Monopolies "work" only if your idea of working is raping, pillaging and looting.

uropeans and people in other areas have better and faster and cheaper internet and other services than dumb fuckin Americans

Horseshit.

The technological advances happened under that monopoly. Parasites later took it and made a race to the bottom.

The technological advances didn't start happening until the monopoly was broken up. When did phones become dirt cheap? After the monopoly was broken up. When could you make cheap long distance calls? After the monopoly was broken up. When were cell phones invented? After the monopoly was broken up.

Oh yeah, 2, 3 year contracts and those data plans that bankrupted peoples bank accounts, the hidden contract language...


jesus, you're not a shill after all...you're an imbecile

What are you babbling about? You think you didn't have to sign a contract with Ma Bell?

 

[Dante]

"It worked well?" Remember those huge dial phones you used to have to rent from the phone company for $20/month? Remember paying $2.00 a minute to call the nearest state? Remember paying $0.25/min to call anyone out of your area code? Remember $100 phone bills when you made only local calls?

What was great about Ma Bell?

The rest of your post is science fiction.

Monopolies "work" only if your idea of working is raping, pillaging and looting.



Horseshit.

The technological advances happened under that monopoly. Parasites later took it and made a race to the bottom.

The technological advances didn't start happening until the monopoly was broken up. When did phones become dirt cheap? After the monopoly was broken up. When could you make cheap long distance calls? After the monopoly was broken up. When were cell phones invented? After the monopoly was broken up.

Oh yeah, 2, 3 year contracts and those data plans that bankrupted peoples bank accounts, the hidden contract language...


jesus, you're not a shill after all...you're an imbecile

What are you babbling about? You think you didn't have to sign a contract with Ma Bell?

please learn not to speak before you know wtf you are talking about?

AT&T Labs - Innovation - Technology Timeline - First Mobile Telephone Call| AT&T Labs| AT&T see?

 

[bripat9643]

The technological advances happened under that monopoly. Parasites later took it and made a race to the bottom.

The technological advances didn't start happening until the monopoly was broken up. When did phones become dirt cheap? After the monopoly was broken up. When could you make cheap long distance calls? After the monopoly was broken up. When were cell phones invented? After the monopoly was broken up.

Oh yeah, 2, 3 year contracts and those data plans that bankrupted peoples bank accounts, the hidden contract language...


jesus, you're not a shill after all...you're an imbecile

What are you babbling about? You think you didn't have to sign a contract with Ma Bell?

please learn not to speak before you know wtf you are talking about?

AT&T Labs - Innovation - Technology Timeline - First Mobile Telephone Call| AT&T Labs| AT&T see?

That says "mobile telephone call," dick head. It doesn't say "cell phone." Motorola invented the cell phone.

Do you really think you're going to teach a tech geek about technology? I worked for a company that purchased the very first cell phone Motorola sold.

 

[Dante]

The technological advances didn't start happening until the monopoly was broken up. When did phones become dirt cheap? After the monopoly was broken up. When could you make cheap long distance calls? After the monopoly was broken up. When were cell phones invented? After the monopoly was broken up.



What are you babbling about? You think you didn't have to sign a contract with Ma Bell?

please learn not to speak before you know wtf you are talking about?

AT&T Labs - Innovation - Technology Timeline - First Mobile Telephone Call| AT&T Labs| AT&T see?

That says "mobile telephone call," dick head. It doesn't say "cell phone." Motorola invented the cell phone.

Do you really think you're going to teach a tech geek about technology? I worked for a company that purchased the very first cell phone Motorola sold.

Yeah and if you were a surgeon you'd be the one that takes out the wrong kidney on the wrong patient.

Bell Labs - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[The2ndAmendment]

"Well regulated" has been defined and interepreted by the Courts to mean the exact same thing it meant when it was ratified: Disciplined and orderly (and well equipped), like the term "Well-regulated clock."

"The Constitution was not written by Ayn Rand, but instead by James Madison and other practical politicians." - Economic Regulation in the United States: The Constitutional Framework » University of Richmond Law Review

[MENTION=15512]Dante[/MENTION] , are you claiming that the phrase "well regulated" does not mean orderly and disciplined?

Even the Supreme Snort recognized this:

In Heller, the U.S. Supreme Court stated that "[t]he adjective 'well-regulated' implies nothing more than the imposition of proper discipline and training."

Here is the Heller case in total, go to page 26:
http://www.constitution.org/2ll/court/sup/DC_v_Heller_07-290.pdf

The adjective “well-regulated” implies nothing more than the imposition of proper discipline and training. See Johnson 1619 (“Regulate”: “To adjust by rule or method” Rawle 121–122; cf. Va. Declaration of Rights §13 (1776).

 

[Dante]

"Well regulated" has been defined and interepreted by the Courts to mean the exact same thing it meant when it was ratified: Disciplined and orderly (and well equipped), like the term "Well-regulated clock."

"The Constitution was not written by Ayn Rand, but instead by James Madison and other practical politicians." - Economic Regulation in the United States: The Constitutional Framework » University of Richmond Law Review

[MENTION=15512]Dante[/MENTION] , are you claiming that the phrase "well regulated" does not mean orderly and disciplined?

Even the Supreme Snort recognized this:

In Heller, the U.S. Supreme Court stated that "[t]he adjective 'well-regulated' implies nothing more than the imposition of proper discipline and training."

Here is the Heller case in total, go to page 26:
http://www.constitution.org/2ll/court/sup/DC_v_Heller_07-290.pdf

The adjective “well-regulated” implies nothing more than the imposition of proper discipline and training. See Johnson 1619 (“Regulate”: “To adjust by rule or method”); Rawle 121–122; cf. Va. Declaration of Rights §13 (1776).

never claimed the phrase did not mean anything.

the claim is it means more than your narrow mind would inssist

 

[bripat9643]

please learn not to speak before you know wtf you are talking about?

AT&T Labs - Innovation - Technology Timeline - First Mobile Telephone Call| AT&T Labs| AT&T see?

That says "mobile telephone call," dick head. It doesn't say "cell phone." Motorola invented the cell phone.

Do you really think you're going to teach a tech geek about technology? I worked for a company that purchased the very first cell phone Motorola sold.

Yeah and if you were a surgeon you'd be the one that takes out the wrong kidney on the wrong patient.

Bell Labs - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Here's the proof that you're an ignorant dick head:

Mobile phone - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"The first hand-held cell phone was demonstrated by John F. Mitchell[1][2] and Dr Martin Cooper of Motorola in 1973"

 

[Dante]

"It worked well?" Remember those huge dial phones you used to have to rent from the phone company for $20/month? Remember paying $2.00 a minute to call the nearest state? Remember paying $0.25/min to call anyone out of your area code? Remember $100 phone bills when you made only local calls?

What was great about Ma Bell?

The rest of your post is science fiction.

Monopolies "work" only if your idea of working is raping, pillaging and looting.



Horseshit.

The technological advances happened under that monopoly. Parasites later took it and made a race to the bottom.

The technological advances didn't start happening until the monopoly was broken up. When did phones become dirt cheap? After the monopoly was broken up. When could you make cheap long distance calls? After the monopoly was broken up. When were cell phones invented? After the monopoly was broken up.

Oh yeah, 2, 3 year contracts and those data plans that bankrupted peoples bank accounts, the hidden contract language...


jesus, you're not a shill after all...you're an imbecile

What are you babbling about? You think you didn't have to sign a contract with Ma Bell?

please learn not to speak before you know wtf you are talking about?

AT&T Labs - Innovation - Technology Timeline - First Mobile Telephone Call| AT&T Labs| AT&T see?

How you turned it into a who made the first cell phone is amusing

dope

The Cellular Solution

Something better — cellular telephone service — had been conceived in 1947 by D.H. Ring at Bell Labs, but the idea was not ready for prime time. The system comprised multiple low-power transmitters spread throughout a city in a hexagonal grid, with automatic call handoff from one hexagon to another and reuse of frequencies within a city. The technology to implement it didn't exist, and the frequencies needed were not available. The cellular concept lay fallow until the 1960s, when Richard Frenkiel and Joel Engel of Bell Labs applied computers and electronics to make it work.

AT&T turned their work into a proposal to the Federal Communications Commission (FCC) in December 1971. After years of hearings, the FCC approved the overall concept, but licensed two competing systems in each city.

In 1978, AT&T conducted FCC-authorized field trials in Chicago and Newark, N.J. Four years later, the FCC granted commercial licenses to an AT&T subsidiary, Advanced Mobile Phone Service Inc. (AMPS). AMPS was then divided among the local companies as part of the planning for divestiture. Illinois Bell opened the first commercial cellular system in October 1983. AT&T re-entered the cellular business by acquiring McCaw Cellular in 1994, the same year that President Clinton awarded Frenkiel and Engel the National Medal of Technology.

Today, AT&T Wireless (AWS) operates one of the largest digital wireless networks in North America. With more than 17 million subscribers, including partnerships and affiliates, and revenues exceeding $10 billion, AT&T Wireless is committed to being among the first to deliver the next generation of wireless products and services. AWS offers customers high-quality wireless communications services, whether mobile or fixed, voice or data, to businesses or consumers, in the United States and internationally.

http://www.corp.att.com/attlabs/reputation/timeline/46mobile.html

 

[bripat9643]

The technological advances happened under that monopoly. Parasites later took it and made a race to the bottom.

The technological advances didn't start happening until the monopoly was broken up. When did phones become dirt cheap? After the monopoly was broken up. When could you make cheap long distance calls? After the monopoly was broken up. When were cell phones invented? After the monopoly was broken up.



What are you babbling about? You think you didn't have to sign a contract with Ma Bell?

please learn not to speak before you know wtf you are talking about?

AT&T Labs - Innovation - Technology Timeline - First Mobile Telephone Call| AT&T Labs| AT&T see?

How you turned it into a who made the first cell phone is amusing

dope

The Cellular Solution

Something better — cellular telephone service — had been conceived in 1947 by D.H. Ring at Bell Labs, but the idea was not ready for prime time. The system comprised multiple low-power transmitters spread throughout a city in a hexagonal grid, with automatic call handoff from one hexagon to another and reuse of frequencies within a city. The technology to implement it didn't exist, and the frequencies needed were not available. The cellular concept lay fallow until the 1960s, when Richard Frenkiel and Joel Engel of Bell Labs applied computers and electronics to make it work.

AT&T turned their work into a proposal to the Federal Communications Commission (FCC) in December 1971. After years of hearings, the FCC approved the overall concept, but licensed two competing systems in each city.

In 1978, AT&T conducted FCC-authorized field trials in Chicago and Newark, N.J. Four years later, the FCC granted commercial licenses to an AT&T subsidiary, Advanced Mobile Phone Service Inc. (AMPS). AMPS was then divided among the local companies as part of the planning for divestiture. Illinois Bell opened the first commercial cellular system in October 1983. AT&T re-entered the cellular business by acquiring McCaw Cellular in 1994, the same year that President Clinton awarded Frenkiel and Engel the National Medal of Technology.

Today, AT&T Wireless (AWS) operates one of the largest digital wireless networks in North America. With more than 17 million subscribers, including partnerships and affiliates, and revenues exceeding $10 billion, AT&T Wireless is committed to being among the first to deliver the next generation of wireless products and services. AWS offers customers high-quality wireless communications services, whether mobile or fixed, voice or data, to businesses or consumers, in the United States and internationally.

AT&T Labs - Innovation - Technology Timeline - First Mobile Telephone Call| AT&T Labs| AT&T

Who made the first cell phone was the issue under debate from the beginning. Try reading back through the thread.

It would have been hard for competitors to build a cellular network when the government gave the only license to use the frequencies to AT&T.

However, this dispute simply isn't important. It's easy to invent things when your vast monopoly revenues allow you to pour huge amounts of money into research. That doesn't make it good for consumers. While AT&T was a government protected monopoly it was the largest corporation on earth and its revenues constituted a sizeable percentage of the US GDP. Consumers spend a much smaller percentage of their income on phone service today, and they have access to immeasurable improved technology.

Monopolies simply aren't good for consumers. The evidence is beyond dispute.

 

[Dante]

Wrong. Monopolies are always bad. The government enforced type are the worse. In fact, they are the only kind.

a primer: A History Of U.S. Monopolies

one correction in the linked article: "The break up of AT&T by Reagan in the 1980s gave birth to the "baby bells"." what happened under Reagan was the culmination of a break up that was almost two decades in the making

AT&T was a government enforce monopoly, dunce.

Yes it was and it worked well. The break up took so long partly because of battles over who would get Bell Labs and other assets. The Baby Bells won lots and screwed the public.

A dear friend was part of a suit by against companies. They/we won years later, but monoploies work

"It worked well?" Remember those huge dial phones you used to have to rent from the phone company for $20/month? Remember paying $2.00 a minute to call the nearest state? Remember paying $0.25/min to call anyone out of your area code? Remember $100 phone bills when you made only local calls?

What was great about Ma Bell?

The rest of your post is science fiction.

Monopolies "work" only if your idea of working is raping, pillaging and looting.

uropeans and people in other areas have better and faster and cheaper internet and other services than dumb fuckin Americans

Horseshit.

The technological advances happened under that monopoly. Parasites later took it and made a race to the bottom.

Oh yeah, 2, 3 year contracts and those data plans that bankrupted peoples bank accounts, the hidden contract language...


jesus, you're not a shill after all...you're an imbecile

------------------------------------------------

Who made the first cell phone was the issue under debate from the beginning. Try reading back through the thread.

It would have been hard for competitors to build a cellular network when the government gave the only license to use the frequencies to AT&T.

However, this dispute simply isn't important. It's easy to invent things when your vast monopoly revenues allow you to pour huge amounts of money into research. That doesn't make it good for consumers. While AT&T was a government protected monopoly it was the largest corporation on earth and its revenues constituted a sizeable percentage of the US GDP. Consumers spend a much smaller percentage of their income on phone service today, and they have access to immeasurable improved technology.

Monopolies simply aren't good for consumers. The evidence is beyond dispute.

I did and it is printed above your post. Hmm... [MENTION=29100]bripat9643[/MENTION]

 

[bripat9643]

a primer: A History Of U.S. Monopolies

one correction in the linked article: "The break up of AT&T by Reagan in the 1980s gave birth to the "baby bells"." what happened under Reagan was the culmination of a break up that was almost two decades in the making

AT&T was a government enforce monopoly, dunce.

The technological advances happened under that monopoly. Parasites later took it and made a race to the bottom.

Oh yeah, 2, 3 year contracts and those data plans that bankrupted peoples bank accounts, the hidden contract language...


jesus, you're not a shill after all...you're an imbecile

------------------------------------------------

Who made the first cell phone was the issue under debate from the beginning. Try reading back through the thread.

It would have been hard for competitors to build a cellular network when the government gave the only license to use the frequencies to AT&T.

However, this dispute simply isn't important. It's easy to invent things when your vast monopoly revenues allow you to pour huge amounts of money into research. That doesn't make it good for consumers. While AT&T was a government protected monopoly it was the largest corporation on earth and its revenues constituted a sizeable percentage of the US GDP. Consumers spend a much smaller percentage of their income on phone service today, and they have access to immeasurable improved technology.

Monopolies simply aren't good for consumers. The evidence is beyond dispute.

I did and it is printed above your post. Hmm... [MENTION=29100]bripat9643[/MENTION]

Cell phones aren't even mentioned in any of that until my last post where I used the term "cell phone," not cellular technology.

 

[Agit8r]

Certainly all disinterested colonists believed in sensible regulation. Unfortunately common sense fell out of fashion during the 20th Century.

"The first Thing I remember of this kind, was a general discourse in Boston when I was a Boy, of a Complaint from North Carolina against New England Rum, that it poison'd their People, giving them the Dry Bellyach, with a Loss of the Use of their Limbs. The Distilleries being examin'd on the Occasion, it was found that several of them used leaden Still-heads and Worms, and the Physicians were of the Opinion that the Mischief was occasion'd by that Use of Lead. The Legislature of the Massachusetts thereupon pass'd an Act prohibiting under severe Penalties the Use of such Still-heads & Worms thereafter"
-- Benjamin Franklin; letter to Benjamin Vaughan (July 31, 1786)

There you have support for states to regulate, not the federal government.

Though that quote predates the constitution, and speaks of happenings long before that, they did nonetheless subsequently enumerate the power of regulating interstate commerce (which that subject obviously concerns)

 

[KingOfCars]

These people believe in little to no regulations so big business can do as they please. They probably hate every advancement in human rights of the past 200 years.

You wouldn't know what the **** "those people" think. And your "probably" babble would be hilarious if it wasn't so dangerously ignorant.

 

[Dante]

Message to Libertarians and others: The founding fathers believed in regulation

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

Madison as well as Hamilton believed the nation needed a strong and more powerful central government than had previously existed. Federalist papers?

So why are people who are hostile to regulation like the Federalist Society always claiming to be the heirs of the traditions and ideals of Madison and Hamilton as well as claiming them as their inspiration and role models?

I understand the clueless, ill-educated here and elsewhere on the web making such ridiculous and absurd errors, but...

as I were saying...