Masonic Disinformation, Propaganda, Dissembling, and Hate Techniques

[rtwngAvngr]

I didn't say unrelated, I said separate. You are once again either deliberately missing my point or attempting to erect a strawman again, either one is just stuffing the thread.

Just like the College in my analogy is related to education, it doesn't make it part of the State system.

If they have their own structure, regardless of whether they are related to each other they are not the same structure...

Ok. they're totally separate, yet one is a prerequisite to the other. THere's nothing to see here. Move along.

 

[no1tovote4]

Ok. they're totally separate, yet one is a prerequisite to the other. THere's nothing to see here. Move along.

Yes, they are connected, in the fact that the second group requires you to be part of the first. But they are not run by the same entity. Just like a Private College is not run by the state and therefore is connected to education just not run by the same entity.

Like I said, complex social structures are anathema to you. You would rather ignore actual separation and hope it makes others see more sinister aspects than exist in reality. I understand that. However I am not arguing "sinister or not sinister" here at all.

All I am doing here is describing how this social structure is set up, I haven't contradicted you other than to explain how and why one obtains those "higher degrees". People join these groups to basically extend their charitable reach (join the Shriners to work in their hospitals) and to take part in groups with their friends that allow things like drinking to go along with their meetings. Some only join the Blue Lodge to join those groups. As I stated in the first thread you started, some join only to become Shriners and you almost never see them in the Lodge as they spend their entire time at the Shriner's Lodge. Basically they use Blue Lodge Freemasonry as a stepping stone to the group they wanted to be part of.

In order to be a Shriner you must join the Shriners, simply being a Freemason without membership doesn't make you one. You pay more money as a member of their group, which is not part of the Grand Lodge... Each of the "higher degrees" is this way.

Blue Lodge, or Accepted Masonry, consists of three Degrees. No more or less than three. Thus when seeking "higher degrees" you must join other groups which are connected by the membership in Freemasonry but separate from the Grand Lodge.

The Shriners and Consistory as well as the Scottish Rite and York Rite Degrees all require additional membership in other groups that are not run by the Grand Lodge.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Yes, they are connected, in the fact that the second group requires you to be part of the first. But they are not run by the same entity. Just like a Private College is not run by the state and therefore is connected to education just not run by the same entity.

Like I said, complex social structures are anathema to you. You would rather ignore actual separation and hope it makes others see more sinister aspects than exist in reality. I understand that. However I am not arguing "sinister or not sinister" here at all.

All I am doing here is describing how this social structure is set up, I haven't contradicted you other than to explain how and why one obtains those "higher degrees". People join these groups to basically extend their charitable reach (join the Shriners to work in their hospitals) and to take part in groups with their friends that allow things like drinking to go along with their meetings. Some only join the Blue Lodge to join those groups. As I stated in the first thread you started, some join only to become Shriners and you almost never see them in the Lodge as they spend their entire time at the Shriner's Lodge. Basically they use Blue Lodge Freemasonry as a stepping stone to the group they wanted to be part of.

In order to be a Shriner you must join the Shriners, simply being a Freemason without membership doesn't make you one. You pay more money as a member of their group, which is not part of the Grand Lodge... Each of the "higher degrees" is this way.

Blue Lodge, or Accepted Masonry, consists of three Degrees. No more or less than three. Thus when seeking "higher degrees" you must join other groups which are connected by the membership in Freemasonry but separate from the Grand Lodge.

The Shriners and Consistory as well as the Scottish Rite and York Rite Degrees all require additional membership in other groups that are not run by the Grand Lodge.

Groups don't have to be OFFICIALLY related STRUCTURALLY to be occultic. I personally believe that there is more to wanting to advance than wanting to extend one's charitable reach. I believe more occult knowledge is given the higher one ascends, and there are numerous sources verifying this.

 

[no1tovote4]

Groups don't have to be OFFICIALLY related STRUCTURALLY to be occultic. I personally believe that there is more to wanting to advance than wanting to extend one's charitable reach. I believe more occult knowledge is given the higher one ascends, and there are numerous sources verifying this.

I know you believe this. But just because you believe it doesn't make it true, it just means it is what you believe.

The whole structural thing is a distraction. I wasn't using it to say anything other than in order to get those "higher degrees" it was necessary to join other groups which had different rules and some believed them to be more fun as well as wanted to participate in their organizational charities.

As I stated, just one post of mine ago, you would attempt to make it look sinister. I was not arguing whether the groups are sinister or not, I was simply answering why others would get those degrees other than for more magic (occult) powers.

There are as many, or more in some cases, sources that verify that Bush has lied and all republicans are evil in some way or another. Millions, if not Billions, believe that republicans are all racist that want to bring back slavery. The number of the sources do not make something more accurate.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

I know you believe this. But just because you believe it doesn't make it true, it just means it is what you believe.

And the same goes for you. It is well documented that the true meanings are hidden from a majority of members, who very well may just be there for charitable works.

The whole structural thing is a distraction. I wasn't using it to say anything other than in order to get those "higher degrees" it was necessary to join other groups which had different rules and some believed them to be more fun as well as wanted to participate in their organizational charities.

And I believe there is also more occultic knowledge given at the higher levels, to some. This is well documented.

As I stated, just one post of mine ago, you would attempt to make it look sinister. I was not arguing whether the groups are sinister or not, I was simply answering why others would get those degrees other than for more magic (occult) powers.

There are other ways to give to charities and help the world outside of the masons.

There are as many, or more in some cases, sources that verify that Bush has lied and all republicans are evil in some way or another. Millions, if not Billions, believe that republicans are all racist that want to bring back slavery. The number of the sources do not make something more accurate.

Those can be demonstrated to be lies or just wrong in many cases. All we have to "prove" masonry has no occult connections are the hysterical denials of masons.

 

[no1tovote4]

And the same goes for you. It is well documented that the true meanings are hidden from a majority of members, who very well may just be there for charitable works.

And I believe there is also more occultic knowledge given at the higher levels, to some. This is well documented.

There are other ways to give to charities and help the world outside of the masons.

Yes, there are many ways to give to charities, this is just one of them that you can do while in the company of men you call friends. Those that are in Freemasonry choose this path because of the friends, not some mythical powers that they are taught. This is also well documented. I pulled a Google Search of "Freemasonry not a religion" to match your search and found nearly double the sites. While that doesn't prove it to you, nor does the whole "well documented" argument hold much weight here. I have shown how something can be "well documented" and untrue at the same time. Therefore repeating it doesn't make it any more right.

Those can be demonstrated to be lies or just wrong in many cases. All we have to "prove" masonry has no occult connections are the hysterical denials of masons.

In "Many" cases certainly isn't all of them, therefore those that cannot be proven wrong must be true in this kind of "logic". Therefore republicans must all be evil racists who want slavery returned in the south and all "brown" people to move away. It's rubbish but I can show that it is well documented and you have stated that not all can be proven inaccurate.

Hysterical? I have had no hysteria here. I care little if you believe that I can understand and work magics, or that the only reason I can't is because other Masons keep their magical powers secret. I have, in this thread spoken only of the social structures and history of the Lodges as they are known today. In the earlier thread I explained why I believed the Lodges are not a religion, neither of which are hysterical arguments, simply a different view than yours.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

In "Many" cases certainly isn't all of them, therefore those that cannot be proven wrong must be true in this kind of "logic". Therefore republicans must all be evil racists who want slavery returned in the south and all "brown" people to move away.

Nice dance. The fact that there is no way to conclusively disprove what I'm saying about masonry IS a hindrance to your argument. But it DOESN'T mean I'm wrong.

Hysterical? I have had no hysteria here. I care little if you believe that I can understand and work magics, or that the only reason I can't is because other Masons keep their magical powers secret. I have, in this thread spoken only of the social structures and history of the Lodges as they are known today. In the earlier thread I explained why I believed the Lodges are not a religion, neither of which are hysterical arguments, simply a different view than yours.

And my view is that it IS a religion as it demands a belief in god AND an immortal soul. The evidence that it is occultic is overwhelming. Yes, we disagree on it.

 

[no1tovote4]

Nice dance. The fact that there is no way to conclusively disprove what I'm saying about masonry IS a hindrance to your argument. But it DOESN'T mean I'm wrong.

Nor does it mean you are right.

I have stated time and again there is only one way to judge a man and that is to get to know them. It is easy to judge through either fanaticism or through misinformation only to be found to be wrong later. I believe that if you met and spoke with freemasons, more than just I, you would find them to be good, religious men, with strong beliefs in their religion of choice and no magic powers...

And my view is that it IS a religion as it demands a belief in god AND an immortal soul. The evidence that it is occultic is overwhelming. Yes, we disagree on it.

Yes, we do disagree on it. Especially on a definition of a religion and the whole magic angle. The "overwhelming" evidence is supposition and guesswork based somewhat in masonic writing taken out of context as shown by the sites I provided. That they were proven inaccurate didn't deter you, just as those anti-republican sites won't be deterred by accuracy.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Nor does it mean you are right.

Nor does it mean I am wrong.

I have stated time and again there is only one way to judge a man and that is to get to know them. It is easy to judge through either fanaticism or through misinformation only to be found to be wrong later. I believe that if you met and spoke with freemasons, more than just I, you would find them to be good, religious men, with strong beliefs in their religion of choice and no magic powers...

I'm not judging the men, except perhaps the ones who knowlingly deceive underlings.

And as christians I'm sure they would love to know the occult associations their organization has. But, as is documented, they may be kept from such knowledge.

Yes, we do disagree on it. Especially on a definition of a religion and the whole magic angle. The "overwhelming" evidence is supposition and guesswork based somewhat in masonic writing taken out of context as shown by the sites I provided. That they were proven inaccurate didn't deter you, just as those anti-republican sites won't be deterred by accuracy.

Nothing was proven inaccurate in my opinion. That political analogy is whack, by the way.

 

[no1tovote4]

Nor does it mean I am wrong.

At least we have gotten to the point where you admit it doesn't prove you right. That it is only something you believe rather than a certainty.

I'm not judging the men, except perhaps the ones who knowlingly deceive underlings.

If there were men among the freemasons that knowingly deceive their underlings then I too would judge them poorly. Your sites however, do not prove or disprove their existence and any evidence of such has been absent in all my experience with the Lodge. Even to the point where last year I served as Master of my Lodge.

And as christians I'm sure they would love to know the occult associations their organization has. But, as is documented, they may be kept from such knowledge.

As christians and freemasons they have knowledge of the sites you put forward and the books written by anti-masons. They choose to believe their own experience and knowledge of the fraternity, and the fact that they have never been asked or required to change their religion.

Nothing was proven inaccurate in my opinion. That political analogy is whack, by the way.

No, it is pretty much the same thing. Using disinformation to express sinister motives. It is an apt analogy. We disagree, but one would expect that considering the different experiences we bring to the discussion.

The main reason I began posting at all was because of the whole "masonry is evil" angle that you believe. It is a conspiracy theory. There are just as many sites on other conspiracies, but it doesn't make them any more true than this one. Writings taken out of context do not prove your point, nor proving that they are out of context proves mine.

Experience and knowledge of the fraternity give me a perspective very different than those who seek the sinister in something that they have little knowledge of. Even those sites that state "former" membership have so many inaccuracies that I believe them to be people that just say that they are former members to give supposed depth to their point.

 

[Annie]

At least we have gotten to the point where you admit it doesn't prove you right. That it is only something you believe rather than a certainty.



If there were men among the freemasons that knowingly deceive their underlings then I too would judge them poorly. Your sites however, do not prove or disprove their existence and any evidence of such has been absent in all my experience with the Lodge. Even to the point where last year I served as Master of my Lodge.


As christians and freemasons they have knowledge of the sites you put forward and the books written by anti-masons. They choose to believe their own experience and knowledge of the fraternity, and the fact that they have never been asked or required to change their religion.



No, it is pretty much the same thing. Using disinformation to express sinister motives. It is an apt analogy. We disagree, but one would expect that considering the different experiences we bring to the discussion.

The main reason I began posting at all was because of the whole "masonry is evil" angle that you believe. It is a conspiracy theory. There are just as many sites on other conspiracies, but it doesn't make them any more true than this one. Writings taken out of context do not prove your point, nor proving that they are out of context proves mine.

Experience and knowledge of the fraternity give me a perspective very different than those who seek the sinister in something that they have little knowledge of. Even those sites that state "former" membership have so many inaccuracies that I believe them to be people that just say that they are former members to give supposed depth to their point.

Could this just maybe, possibly be a cool Kumbaya moment? :shocked:

 

[rtwngAvngr]

At least we have gotten to the point where you admit it doesn't prove you right. That it is only something you believe rather than a certainty.



If there were men among the freemasons that knowingly deceive their underlings then I too would judge them poorly. Your sites however, do not prove or disprove their existence and any evidence of such has been absent in all my experience with the Lodge. Even to the point where last year I served as Master of my Lodge.


As christians and freemasons they have knowledge of the sites you put forward and the books written by anti-masons. They choose to believe their own experience and knowledge of the fraternity, and the fact that they have never been asked or required to change their religion.



No, it is pretty much the same thing. Using disinformation to express sinister motives. It is an apt analogy. We disagree, but one would expect that considering the different experiences we bring to the discussion.

The main reason I began posting at all was because of the whole "masonry is evil" angle that you believe. It is a conspiracy theory. There are just as many sites on other conspiracies, but it doesn't make them any more true than this one. Writings taken out of context do not prove your point, nor proving that they are out of context proves mine.

Experience and knowledge of the fraternity give me a perspective very different than those who seek the sinister in something that they have little knowledge of. Even those sites that state "former" membership have so many inaccuracies that I believe them to be people that just say that they are former members to give supposed depth to their point.

Actually, you brought masonry up in the Mechanics of Satanic Enslavement thread of your own accord. The occult connection is overwhelmingly well documented. Your denials don't change anything.

 

[no1tovote4]

Actually, you brought masonry up in the Mechanics of Satanic Enslavement thread of your own accord. The occult connection is overwhelmingly well documented. Your denials don't change anything.

No. I didn't. It was one of the things listed in your first post as Satanic. Thus began my interest in the discussion.

The occult connection isn't overwhelmingly documented, it is written by people taking stuff out of context and adding little pieces of disinformation to express an ideation of sinister motives where none can be found. As was shown by the sites that overwhelmingly document the opposite.

 

[Annie]

Actually, you brought masonry up in the Mechanics of Satanic Enslavement thread of your own accord. The occult connection is overwhelmingly well documented. Your denials don't change anything.

Guess not. :coffee3:

 

[StoptheMadness1]

no1tovote4, you may be interested in the following. I may have posted this before, but I'll post it again.

C.W Leadbetter, a 33rd degree Mason, acknowledges the invocation of spirits, or powers in masonic rituals. Leadbetter, writing in his book The Hidden Life in Freemasonry, says,

"The 30th degree brings its Angel also, of appropriate character - a great blue Deva of the First Ray, who lends his strength to the Knight K.H., somewhat as the crimson Angel assists the Ex. and perf. Bro. of the Rose-Croix. The 33rd degree gives two such splendid fellow-workers - spirits of gigantic size as compared to humanity, and radiantly white in colour."

Leadbetter also writes about the 33rd degree ritual that involves the binding of the initiate with the “Spiritual king of the world himself.”

"The 33rd degree links the Sovereign Grand Inspector General with the Spiritual King of the World Himself, That Mightiest of Adepts who stands at the head of the Great White Lodge, in whose strong hands lie the destinies of earth."

While you may not believe in what Leadbetter is talking about, it certainly demonstrates the occult structure that a select few of Freemasons believe in.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

No. I didn't. It was one of the things listed in your first post as Satanic. Thus began my interest in the discussion.

Maybe so. But that's neither here nor there.

The occult connection isn't overwhelmingly documented, it is written by people taking stuff out of context and adding little pieces of disinformation to express an ideation of sinister motives where none can be found. As was shown by the sites that overwhelmingly document the opposite.

In my opinion it IS overwhelmingly documented. Denial ain't just a river in egypt.

 

[no1tovote4]

I have to go to our District Assembly and vote as a Delagate to choose candidates for the coming election. I will be back.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

I have to go to our District Assembly and vote as a Delagate to choose candidates for the coming election. I will be back.

"Tubal Cain!"

 

[CrimsonWhite]

1. Freemasonry contradicts the basic truths of the bible. Foremost being......Christ is only one of many means to salvation.

Freemasonry is not a religion or a path to salvation. It in no way claims to be or practices as such. It is a fraternity of men united under the common belief that God exists.

2. Initiates into Freemasonry, most perform oaths that totally contradict Godly, moral/ethical principles.

There is nothing in those oaths contradict moral/ethical principles. If you go to court and swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so you God, are you not doing the same thing?

3. Freemasons can and have used their organization/members to flood or take-over important judicial positions, and areas of political/cultural positions of influence to enhance/further their political/religious agendas of tolerance and judgement where it enhances their goals.............Irrespective of the U.S. Constitution, or common, basic laws of the U.S.

Absolute power corrupts absolutely. Every powerful organization has been guilty of this. Including the Southern Baptist Convention.

4. The highest degree of Freemasonry, the 33 degree, reveals the true nature of Freemasonry in unabashed form. The 33 degree candidate has it revealed to him that Lucifer, not Jesus is trully the God of Freemasonry.

I thought that you stated the you were not a Mason, yet you know what the 33rd degree ceremony entails? Jesus is never declared as the God of Freemasonry. A belief in a certain God is not required as long as you have a belief in one God. Actually if you were actually informed, then you would know that the 33rd degree is never refferred to as "the highest degree." The 3rd degree is the highest degree, but you not being a Mason would not understand this.

5. The venerated author of Freemasonry's most venerated book "The Morals And Dogmas Of Freemasonry", Albert Pike, was a high ranking Ku Klux Klansmen. This is not falacy but fact.

This has nothing to do with anything. Albert Pike is not regarded, at least by the Illinois Grand Lodge, as venerated anything. His conclusions are discussed at length and are generally not accepted.

6. Freemasons are allowed to refute my statements, even if if involves lieing.
7. They will disavow many of these above statements about their society, out of ignorance and also purposeful trickery/denial.

I here this all the time. People are going to believe what they want to and those imbedded in ignorance simply cannot be lifted from it.
...........

You may also find it very interesting, that Joseph Smith Jr., founder of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.......or more commonly called "The Mormon Church", was a 33 degree Freemason. The secret rites that only advanced Mormons go through in their Temple rites.......that is, good, obedient Mormons, are direct copies of Masonic blood oaths. Even the secret handshakes that are used in Mormon Temple Rites are directly from Freemasonry secret hand shakes and signs. ala the Lion's paw......etc.

Mormon founder, Joseph Smith Jr. left so much evidence of Freemason influence in the Mormon church, that it's absolutely a "no brainer" when confronted with questions of a Mormon/Freemasonry connection.

How does this make Freemasonry evil?
.........

At one time, in the Southern U.S., the majority of judicial positions were held by Freemasons. After a terrible debacle/execution performed by Freemasons on a fellow member......public opinion went strongly against Freemasonry. In fact member rolls dropped drastically in the U.S. after this murder. Since that 1800's murder, public opinion has changed due to ignorance, and the benign picture that modern day Freemasonry presents. This has resulted in an upsurge in lodge rolls in the 20th and 21 century U.S..

Several signers of the Declaration of Independence were Masons. Many of the framers of our Constitution were Masons. The majority of the government buildings in Washington, DC were laid out Masonic ceremonies. In its entire history there is one instance of Masons killing another for breaking the oath. How many US Citizens have been executed for treason? Same concept.
.......

Ever heard of the Grand Hailing Sign?...........If a Freemason is in legal trouble or has broken the law in any way, he can excercise his lodge's, secret, Grand hailing sign, in court or anywhere, and any presiding Freemason brother/judge must do all he can possible to get his brother "off" from prosecution.

This is flat out exageration. The Grand Hailing Sign is to signal to another brother that he is in need of assistance. It could be used for anything, but is intended for the most dire of situations.
.........

Did you know that a Freemason named Captain Morgan, was executed by brother Freemasons by drowning in the Niagra River? This Captain Morgan actually published/wrote about the secret rituals of his lodge. He had broken the blood oath, and was summarily executed. He was kidnapped out of his home in front of his family.......transported to the Niagra River, and had his body weighted down, and bound, and dropped in the river.

He voluntarily took that oath. I wouldn't advocate execution, but he knew the danger of what he had done. Besides, I think this more legend than fact.

........

Freemasonry summarily dismisses this Captain Morgan story as a bunch of hooey. One of the executioners, actually gave a death bed confession of his participation in Captain Morgan's murder. Death bed confessions are highly submissible in a court.......as you all know. Not too much lieing happens between you and the here-after when the here-after is within minutes of reality in one's life.

If the legend is more interesting than the fact, print the legend.
.........

Yes......many of our U.S. historic and present leaders were Freemasons..............George Washington comes to light. Most Freemasons fail to note that George Washington clearly removed or distanted himself from the Lodge in his later years. This is substantiated in his later writings.

You fail to mention the reason for his distance. Do more research. freemasonrywatch.org is not an unbiased source. Did you know that he had a portrait him self painted in full regalia while in the White House. Since he died two years after leaving office, this certainly qualifies as his later years.

.........

Also most Freemasons are very ignorant of the real tenents of Freemasonry.

I guess those that are not Masons are the enlightened ones.
.......

Many Freemasons still believe that King Solomon of the bible was a Freemason........Actually true Freemasonry can only be traced back to the 1700's A.D. with most likely origins coming from France.

The organizations foundation is from the building of King Soloman's temple. It is speculative. That is where the "free" in Freemasonry comes from.
.......
Freemasonry qualifies as a religion.........Freemasons will refute this..........but their belief system that accepts any and all religions, and or manmade truths venerated above biblical standards.....actually qualifies them as a Cult.......not a Fraternal society/lodge........for the betterment of men.
..........

In your opinion.

 

[Kagom]

I saw an episode on the History channel about Freemasonry. Turned out all this bullshit that had been made up was crafted by an angry Frenchman who was denied admittance into the Freemason order. He even admitted that he made it up, yet rumors and lies still persist.