Zone1 Martin Luther or John Calvin?

[Zebra]

As it is the Reformation Day, I ask, which of the two do you prefer, if you had to choose.

I would not choose Calvin.

 

[Zebra]

i tend towards Luther and not Calvin

i voted for other

 

[Zebra]

3 voters now

 

[Zebra]

1 Luther
1 Calvin

 

[Carl in Michigan]

Your world revolves around men -- Luther, Calvin. Catholicism and Protestantism. Some of us center ourselves around Jesus

 

[Zebra]

now 3 Luther

 

[DennisPTate]

Your world revolves around men -- Luther, Calvin. Catholicism and Protestantism. Some of us center ourselves around Jesus

I suspect that both Luther as well as Calvin were doing the best that they could do within an extremely difficult set of circumstances.

Martin Luther disappointed me with his article "The Jews and their Lies" but Calvin disappointed me with his ideas on the State of the Dead not seeming to fit very well with 2 Corinthians 12 verse two to four and the likely explanation by Paul of those questions that he had had a few years back, at the later time that he wrote Romans chapters nine, ten and eleven.

 

[Carl in Michigan]

but Calvin disappointed me with his ideas on the State of the Dead not seeming to fit very well with 2 Corinthians 12 verse two to four and the likely explanation by Paul of those questions that he had had a few years back, at the later time that he wrote Romans chapters nine, ten and eleven.

What were his views and what are yours?

Edit
I just googled Calvin and this is what it says:

John Calvin taught that the soul is immortal and continues to exist consciously after death, awaiting the final resurrection. He argued against the "soul sleep" view, insisting that the soul has both sense and understanding after the body dies. He believed that the soul's state is one of conscious rest with God, while the wicked await judgment, and that both will be reunited with their bodies in a final resurrection.

I don't agree with this at all. The dead are gone forever until the resurrection of the dead. The Church first, and later the rest of Mankind

 

[DennisPTate]

What were his views and what are yours?

Edit
I just googled Calvin and this is what it says:

John Calvin taught that the soul is immortal and continues to exist consciously after death, awaiting the final resurrection. He argued against the "soul sleep" view, insisting that the soul has both sense and understanding after the body dies. He believed that the soul's state is one of conscious rest with God, while the wicked await judgment, and that both will be reunited with their bodies in a final resurrection.

I don't agree with this at all. The dead are gone forever until the resurrection of the dead. The Church first, and later the rest of Mankind

Thank you for this question because I had to do a search to remind myself of what Calvin actually taught.

The five-point Calvinists, however, see problems with four-point Calvinism. First, they argue, if Total Depravity is true, then Unlimited Atonement cannot possibly be true because, if Jesus died for the sins of every person, then whether or not His death is applicable to an individual depends on whether or not that person “accepts” Christ. But as we have seen from the above description of Total Depravity, man in his natural state has no capacity whatsoever to choose God, nor does he want to. In addition, if Unlimited Atonement is true, then hell is full of people for whom Christ died. He shed His blood in vain for them. To the five-point Calvinist, this is unthinkable. Please note: this article is only a brief summary of the five points of Calvinism. For a more in-depth look, please visit the following pages: Total Depravity, Unconditional Election, Limited Atonement, Irresistible Grace, and Perseverance of the Saints.

I believe that this these doctrines lead to a rather fatalistic view of whether or not our efforts to reach out to the lost can be successful or not. If I did not think that our efforts here on these forums could assist somebody to give their life to Messiah Yeshua - Jesus then I probably would not bother with discussion forums.

I believe that we humans have a wide range of freedom of choice in how well we receive the words of Jesus?

I believe that we can choose to become 'good soil' but even once we rise up to that level we can still use our freedom of choice to produce a hundred fold rather than merely sixty fold or thirty fold.

It may seem contradictory but I believe that we all need to humbly ask for more and more of the Holy Spirit to cleanse us and inspire us or we will fall into one or more of the issues that the churches of Revelation chapters two and three fell into.

 

[Zebra]

Calvin believed in Kismet, like in Islam.

 

[DennisPTate]

Calvin believed in Kismet, like in Islam.

Yes, that is a good way of explaining his beliefs.

I believe that Calvin was an astonishingly courageous and brilliant man who handled the challenges in front of him very well, but I do believe that "fatalism" or a belief in "kismet" tends to take away our motivation to pray for others with extra boldness or enthusiasm.

 

[Zebra]

Calvin a so.called heretic burnt at the stake ...

 

[Zebra]

who remembers John Knox?

 

[Calgon]

Simplistic idiocy.

 

[Zebra]

I would not vote for Knox