Man charged with murdering canoeist, castle defense?

[SteadyMercury]

Missouri float trip murder case may hinge on property rights - KansasCity.com

Witnesses who testified at a hearing this month said Crocker was angry and raging, shooting into the crowd of people, narrowly missing two others before killing 48-year-old Paul Dart Jr. of Robertsville, Mo.

Crocker has been charged with second degree murder.

Even some supporters of the doctrine say the violence seemed avoidable. "The smart thing is to back away, and nobody seemed to be willing to do that," said Kevin Jamison, an attorney who lobbied for Missouri's castle doctrine bill as a member of the Western Missouri Shooters Alliance.

So where does caste defense end and out of control maniac begin?

 

[Mr. H.]

The last thing I would do is throw rocks at a guy with a gun.

 

[SteadyMercury]

The last thing I would do is throw rocks at a guy with a gun.

You'd suck at being a Palestinian.

 

[Hoffstra]

if he went to the folks and told them "this is my property and i order you to leave it immediately" and they approached him in a threatening manner, then he had the right to shoot.

other than this, he committed a crime.

 

[R.C. Christian]

Raparian water legalities. If the stream is navigable then a person may canoe, in this case, through a person's land.

 

[R.C. Christian]

That asshole belongs in a jail cell.

 

[koshergrl]

Bullshit. The boaters were drunk, they were pissing and god knows what on his clearly marked property....and they advanced on him with large rocks when he advised them to leave.

 

[Hoffstra]

Bullshit. The boaters were drunk, they were pissing and god knows what on his clearly marked property....and they advanced on him with large rocks when he advised them to leave.

if this is a fact, then he did have a right to shoot.

 

[R.C. Christian]

Bullshit. The boaters were drunk, they were pissing and god knows what on his clearly marked property....and they advanced on him with large rocks when he advised them to leave.

Hmmm, that's going to be an interesting trial. The first question I'd ask is why didn't you just go back to your house? I'm playing devil's advocate here, but if I were in that position I would have taken My Sig Sauer AR with the scary looking 30 round clip, the Eootech Optics, and all the tactical bells and whistles strapped to that thing on in a non threatening position to reason first, intimidate 2nd, backup 3rd, and fire 4th. But then again, if you're drunk, you're already out of control and you're going to do shit that you wouldn't normally do so that should be a consideration. I'm curious as to whether the shooter was also drunk.

 

[Mr. H.]

Bullshit. The boaters were drunk, they were pissing and god knows what on his clearly marked property....and they advanced on him with large rocks when he advised them to leave.

The boaters clearly marked it, all right.

 

[R.C. Christian]

I wouldn't have shot at anyone unless they gave chase to me up to the open ground between the house and river while still wielding rocks. My first shot would have been a warning shot but the second would have zipped someone's liver with .243 or .223 depending on which assault rife was nearby. A shotgun is not a precision weapon. I'd rather put distance between assailants and take them down at a point their rocks can't reach me, and if they can't reach me there is really no point in firing unless they continue forward into a slaughter. Once the first guy is hit the mob would disperse and I'd do my utmost to keep the assailant from dying.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

I don't think this really qualifies as a Castle Doctrine defense.

 

[Mr. H.]

Crazy fuck gone postal.

 

[Missourian]

if he went to the folks and told them "this is my property and i order you to leave it immediately" and they approached him in a threatening manner, then he had the right to shoot.

That's exactly what happened.

He told one of the group, the one pissin' on his property that they were tresspassing and that they need to move along.

Four of the inebriates returned, and at least on of them attacked him with a large rock.

I have my map book "A Paddler's Guide to Missouri" right here in front of me.

Page 8, know trespassing law..."If the stream is considered a public fishing stream, you probably have the right to float it, and to PORTAGE over land that is below the high water line."

"However, if a landowner becomes hostile, be as tactful and courteous as possible and MOVE on downstream."

The paddlers guide is written and published by the Missouri Department of Conservation.

In Missouri, they have jurisdiction over all non-federal (Corps of Engineers impoundments) public waterways.

This is their official position.

 

[jon_berzerk]

i grew up on a lake

in the back waters

it was common for people to land at our dock and party away

we would turn on the flood lights and let know to pipe it down

as long as they didnt leave a mess or swipe anything it was alright

had a fire pit they could use as well

 

[Missourian]

The last thing I would do is throw rocks at a guy with a gun.

According to the reports from the eye witnesses, Crocker came out aggravated and out of control with his gun and discharge the gun in a manner where bullets struck close to their feet...

...and they didn't leave!

I don't believe that for one second.

 

[jon_berzerk]

The last thing I would do is throw rocks at a guy with a gun.

According to the reports from the eye witnesses, Crocker came out aggravated and out of control with his gun and discharge the gun in a manner where bullets struck close to their feet...

...and they didn't leave!

I don't believe that for one second.

he probably did come out pissed off

he had his property posted and they ignored it

 

[Politico]

Yeah except they weren't on his property. They were on a gravel bar in the river.

 

[jon_berzerk]

Yeah except they weren't on his property. They were on a gravel bar in the river.

Missourian would probably be able to answer the laws regarding that river

where the property ends and such

 

[Tank]

Deliverance