Make the Gun Companies Pay Blood Money

[legaleagle_45]

No, IF you make it harder for people to kill themselves.

LESS PEOPLE WILL KILL THEMSELVES.

Not according to the World Health Organization.

Get rid of toxic coal gas, less people will kill themselves with it.

Not according to the World Health Organization.

Take away the guns, less people will kill themselves.

Not according to the World Health Organization.

It's really pretty ******* simple.

Yep,..." removing a preferred method of suicide will not substantially impact overall suicide rates because another method will be chosen." Changing Patterns in Suicide Behavior, World Health Organization.

 

[legaleagle_45]

Only if you want to count all the times a domestic abuser threatened his family with a gun or threatened to kill them without actually doing it.

If you want to count non-events.

Except they are not non-events...

Idiot

Except they aren't quantifiable... that's the problem.

It's why "DGU" range in estimates from 65,000 (Department of Justice) to 2 million (Kleck study) a year, depending on who is doing the measuring. That's a pretty wide gap that most statisticians would call worthless as a measure.

They are quantifiable. Actual counts will substantially under report the actual numbers however, which is why we rely upon scientific surveys. Surveys can be quite accurate.. unless they are done by persons with a partisan slant. The 65,000 was your pal David Hemenway, who, along with Kellerman, is a Joyce funded researcher and an anti gun proponent.. DoJ had three. The first was an actual count of ~82,000 which was based upon actual police reports to that effect. A later DoJ study was ~108,000 and was also based upon actual police reports followed up by phone calls. These 2 DoJ study methodology will lead to substantial undercounts in 2 ways, the first is that a substantial number of DGU are not reported to police and thus not included in the count. The second is that the initial police report will rarely justify a shooting as a DGU, instead they will kick it up to the DA for a determination... thus the initial police numbers do not include any where the DA refused to prosecute or the person was exonerated at trial. The third method employed by the DoJ was a scientific survey, similar to the method employed by Kleck but overseen by anti gun researchers concluded a figure of 1.5 million DGU's annually. We can thus safely assume that there were more than 108,000 annually and perhaps something less than 1.5 million.

Most non partisan studies indicate the actual DGU count in the neighborhood of 750,000 to 800,000 per year. Most of these DGU's are associated with a mere display of the weapon or the sound of shotgun being cycled.

 

[JoeB131]

Except they are not non-events...

Idiot

Except they aren't quantifiable... that's the problem.

It's why "DGU" range in estimates from 65,000 (Department of Justice) to 2 million (Kleck study) a year, depending on who is doing the measuring. That's a pretty wide gap that most statisticians would call worthless as a measure.

I can't quantify the lack of synapses firing in your defective brain.. but it does not take away from the fact that you lie, selectively choose numbers, and preach totalitarian policy

The fact is that crimes are thwarted on a regular basis by legally owned firearms

EDIT**

And lest we forget that there are contradictory numbers to YOUR claim of privately owned firearms in Germany.. so I guess your claim is unquantifiable

Actually, mine had a citation and his didn't... so mine is quantifiable.

Which has nothing to do with the fact that numbers about DGU's, especially Kleck, are pure fantasy.

 

[JoeB131]

[quo

They are quantifiable. Actual counts will substantially under report the actual numbers however, which is why we rely upon scientific surveys. Surveys can be quite accurate.. unless they are done by persons with a partisan slant. The 65,000 was your pal David Hemenway, who, along with Kellerman, is a Joyce funded researcher and an anti gun proponent.. DoJ had three. The first was an actual count of ~82,000 which was based upon actual police reports to that effect. A later DoJ study was ~108,000 and was also based upon actual police reports followed up by phone calls. These 2 DoJ study methodology will lead to substantial undercounts in 2 ways, the first is that a substantial number of DGU are not reported to police and thus not included in the count. The second is that the initial police report will rarely justify a shooting as a DGU, instead they will kick it up to the DA for a determination... thus the initial police numbers do not include any where the DA refused to prosecute or the person was exonerated at trial. The third method employed by the DoJ was a scientific survey, similar to the method employed by Kleck but overseen by anti gun researchers concluded a figure of 1.5 million DGU's annually. We can thus safely assume that there were more than 108,000 annually and perhaps something less than 1.5 million.

Most non partisan studies indicate the actual DGU count in the neighborhood of 750,000 to 800,000 per year. Most of these DGU's are associated with a mere display of the weapon or the sound of shotgun being cycled.

Only in the movies, guys. the point is, even you admit that the range is pretty high- 108K to 1.5M.

Probably substantially less.

Here's the thing. I've known of 2 suicides and 1 murder committed with guns.

I don't know a SINGLE person who chased a bad guy off with one.

 

[CMike]

Guns make it easier to kill people.

Next.

Guns make it possible to defend yourself and your family.

Next.

 

[JoeB131]

[
here is my source Joe.....i guess it depends on who you want to believe.....

Guns in Germany: Facts, Figures and Firearm Law

When I cite GunPolicy.org, they usually say it doesn't count because it's an anti-gun source.

But here's what else that site says about Germany and her gun laws.

The regulation of guns in Germany is categorised as restrictive44

In Germany, civilians are not allowed to possess automatic firearms, firearms disguised as other objects, and armour-piercing, incendiary and expanding ammunition53

Compare
Regulation of Automatic Assault Weapons
In Germany, private possession of fully automatic weapons is prohibited53 54

Compare
Regulation of Semiautomatic Assault Weapons
In Germany, private possession of semi-automatic assault weapons is permitted only with special authorisation55 56 54

Compare
Regulation of Handguns
In Germany, private possession of handguns (pistols and revolvers) is permitted only with special authorisation

In Germany, only licensed gun owners57 58 53 55 59 may lawfully acquire, possess or transfer a firearm or ammunition



Compare
Genuine Reason Required for Firearm Licence
Applicants for a gun owner’s licence in Germany are required to prove genuine reason to possess a firearm, for example, hunting, target shooting, collection, personal protection (in exceptional circumstances), security45 60 61



Compare
Minimum Age for Firearm Possession
The minimum age for gun ownership in Germany is 21 years62 61



Compare
Gun Owner Background Checks
An applicant for a firearm licence in Germany must pass background checks which consider criminal and mental61 records



Compare
Domestic Violence and Firearms
Where a past history, or apprehended likelihood of family violence exists, the law in Germany does not stipulate (unless reflected in a criminal record)3 that a gun licence should be denied or revoked



Compare
Firearm Safety Training
In Germany, an understanding of firearm safety and the law, tested in a theoretical and/or practical training course is required3 for a firearm licence



Compare
Limit on Number of Guns
Licensed firearm owners in Germany are permitted to possess a varied number of firearms dependent on type and intended use63 60 64



Compare
Limit on Quantity, Type of Ammunition
A licensed firearm owner in Germany is permitted to possess only ammunition suitable for the intended firearm65

In short, Germany is not an NRA Paradise...

 

[JoeB131]

Guns make it easier to kill people.

Next.

Guns make it possible to defend yourself and your family.

Next.

Well, no since a gun is 43 times more likely to kill a family member than a bad guy, no, they don't.

It's like saying your Dog Spike who bit 43 neighborhood kids before he bit a burglar is an effective watchdog.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Guns make it easier to kill people.

Next.

Guns make it possible to defend yourself and your family.

Next.

Well, no since a gun is 43 times more likely to kill a family member than a bad guy, no, they don't.

It's like saying your Dog Spike who bit 43 neighborhood kids before he bit a burglar is an effective watchdog.

LIAR. Cite the study ot report you got that from with appropriate date.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Guns make it possible to defend yourself and your family.

Next.

Well, no since a gun is 43 times more likely to kill a family member than a bad guy, no, they don't.

It's like saying your Dog Spike who bit 43 neighborhood kids before he bit a burglar is an effective watchdog.

Liar cite the study or report and the appropriate date for said study or report.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Guns make it easier to kill people.

Next.

Guns make it possible to defend yourself and your family.

Next.

Well, no since a gun is 43 times more likely to kill a family member than a bad guy, no, they don't.

It's like saying your Dog Spike who bit 43 neighborhood kids before he bit a burglar is an effective watchdog.

Less than 800 people die a year due to accidental firearm use. How exactly does that equate to 43 times the chance to die by being accidentally shot by a family gun?

 

[JoeB131]

[

Less than 800 people die a year due to accidental firearm use. How exactly does that equate to 43 times the chance to die by being accidentally shot by a family gun?

Here are those numbers-

19,000 suicides.
11,101 Homicides
800 accidental deaths

only 200 cases where the FBI found use of force was justified.

 

[CMike]

Guns make it easier to kill people.

Next.

Guns make it possible to defend yourself and your family.

Next.

Well, no since a gun is 43 times more likely to kill a family member than a bad guy, no, they don't.

It's like saying your Dog Spike who bit 43 neighborhood kids before he bit a burglar is an effective watchdog.

A gun doesn't kill anyone.

A person using a gun may kill someone.

 

[Harry Dresden]

[
here is my source Joe.....i guess it depends on who you want to believe.....

Guns in Germany: Facts, Figures and Firearm Law

When I cite GunPolicy.org, they usually say it doesn't count because it's an anti-gun source.

But here's what else that site says about Germany and her gun laws.

The regulation of guns in Germany is categorised as restrictive44

In Germany, civilians are not allowed to possess automatic firearms, firearms disguised as other objects, and armour-piercing, incendiary and expanding ammunition53

Compare
Regulation of Automatic Assault Weapons
In Germany, private possession of fully automatic weapons is prohibited53 54

Compare
Regulation of Semiautomatic Assault Weapons
In Germany, private possession of semi-automatic assault weapons is permitted only with special authorisation55 56 54

Compare
Regulation of Handguns
In Germany, private possession of handguns (pistols and revolvers) is permitted only with special authorisation

In Germany, only licensed gun owners57 58 53 55 59 may lawfully acquire, possess or transfer a firearm or ammunition



Compare
Genuine Reason Required for Firearm Licence
Applicants for a gun owner’s licence in Germany are required to prove genuine reason to possess a firearm, for example, hunting, target shooting, collection, personal protection (in exceptional circumstances), security45 60 61



Compare
Minimum Age for Firearm Possession
The minimum age for gun ownership in Germany is 21 years62 61



Compare
Gun Owner Background Checks
An applicant for a firearm licence in Germany must pass background checks which consider criminal and mental61 records



Compare
Domestic Violence and Firearms
Where a past history, or apprehended likelihood of family violence exists, the law in Germany does not stipulate (unless reflected in a criminal record)3 that a gun licence should be denied or revoked



Compare
Firearm Safety Training
In Germany, an understanding of firearm safety and the law, tested in a theoretical and/or practical training course is required3 for a firearm licence



Compare
Limit on Number of Guns
Licensed firearm owners in Germany are permitted to possess a varied number of firearms dependent on type and intended use63 60 64



Compare
Limit on Quantity, Type of Ammunition
A licensed firearm owner in Germany is permitted to possess only ammunition suitable for the intended firearm65

In short, Germany is not an NRA Paradise...

it also said there are 17 million illegal guns that people have......this is all moot Joe.....you said Germany does not have a lot of gun owners......apparently .....that is not true....

 

[legaleagle_45]

Only in the movies, guys. the point is, even you admit that the range is pretty high- 108K to 1.5M.

Based upon 2 seperate methods of measuring 2 different things. The lower number is an ACTUAL COUNT of DGU's on police reports. The other would be a survey. Thus you are comparing apples and oranes and saying the color is different. Similar to reporting that gallup found only 1,500 people who supported universal background checks in the entire USA and thereby dismissing the support of such a measure among the population.. Your attempted dismissal of scientific surveys makes your reliance upon Kellerman and his 43 to one figure hippocritical.

Probably substantially less.

No non parisan researcher would place the number under 108,000. And even partisan researchers can not bring it below 65,000.

Here's the thing. I've known of 2 suicides and 1 murder committed with guns.

I don't know a SINGLE person who chased a bad guy off with one.

Here is the thing. I know of alot of persons who smoke, but I do not know of a SINGLE person who has died of lung cancer, whether it was caused by smoking or not. I guess, if we use your criteria, the lung cancer thing is just a myth, right?

 

[RetiredGySgt]

[

Less than 800 people die a year due to accidental firearm use. How exactly does that equate to 43 times the chance to die by being accidentally shot by a family gun?

Here are those numbers-

19,000 suicides.
11,101 Homicides
800 accidental deaths

only 200 cases where the FBI found use of force was justified.

Which does not substantiate your claim. Go ahead cite for us when and hw someone came up with 43 times.....

 

[CMike]

Perhaps everyone who owns a gun should get a tax credit?

We are doing the police's job for them.

 

[JoeB131]

[

Which does not substantiate your claim. Go ahead cite for us when and hw someone came up with 43 times.....

Look it up yourself, lazy-ass. That's what google's for.

We've been over the Kellerman numbers a shitload of times, and frankly, I'm kind of bored with it.

 

[Jarlaxle]

[

According to the FBI, there were only 200 cases where a firearm was used by a civilian to kill a criminal in self-defense.

And hundreds of thousands where a firearm was used in self-defense WITHOUT killing anyone.

Only if you want to count all the times a domestic abuser threatened his family with a gun or threatened to kill them without actually doing it.

If you want to count non-events.

Yer lying again, junior. Are you STUPID or are you just EVIL?

 

[JoeB131]

Perhaps everyone who owns a gun should get a tax credit?

We are doing the police's job for them.

Or making work for them.. between all the suicides, domestic murders and home accidents, you gun nuts are creating most of the caseload for cops.

Again 11,101 gun murders in the US vs. 24 gun murders in the United Kingdom.

 

[AmazonTania]

Do we make steel mining companies sugar factories pay a crime tax as well?