Lies

[Avatar4321]

You know its kinda funny watching Liberals yell about the President's lies they have yet to name. i was on a message board earlier and a liberal woman was yelling how we cant have a liar for President. And im just like. do you really think that any American believes you after what you guys said about lying not being important during the 90s? I mean they could atleast provide an example of a lie. But for some reason Democrats seem to think a lie is a statement like the one the President made in the State of the Union last year about the British intelligence detailing how Iraq was seeking yellow cake, which of course is true! The British intelligence to this day claim its true. So how exactly was Bush lying to say it? especially considering yellow cake was found being smuggled out of Iraq months ago.

And then the best was James Carville, Clintons right hand man. He was yelling up a storm on how horrible it is to have a liar as President. And i was just like, James we know, you defended one for 8 years. These liberals are so funny. The best part is, its only March! We have atleast another 8 months of entertainment! Its just going to get better and better.

 

[Fletch]

Well, I hate to say this but, the right bitched about Clinton being a draft doger and now we have Mr. Texas Air. So there are inconsistancies on both sides.

 

[kcmcdonald]

didn't ake long for someone to jump your ship. Clinton was a draft dodger, Bush was in the millitary...I know you leftties love the gausrd and think it's an honerable service: But he did serve, just not in vietnam. Notice how you guys don't bring up the fact that Kerry only serverd 4 mounths in NAM, that's only 1/3 a full tour. Where is your fact finding lie machine there. Oh wait it's only used to attack people who don't follow your ideologies, I'm sorry i forrgot.:

 

[Fletch]

Originally posted by kcmcdonald
didn't ake long for someone to jump your ship. Clinton was a draft dodger, Bush was in the millitary...I know you leftties love the gausrd and think it's an honerable service: But he did serve, just not in vietnam. Notice how you guys don't bring up the fact that Kerry only serverd 4 mounths in NAM, that's only 1/3 a full tour. Where is your fact finding lie machine there. Oh wait it's only used to attack people who don't follow your ideologies, I'm sorry i forrgot.:

Uhh dude….. I am on your side. Check out my other posts and I think you will see. I was simply demonstrating that WE have our own little issue that can bite us in the ass. However, I am glad you jumped my shit because it gave me some ammo to use in the future. Unfortunately, I live in Liberal central (Cambridge, MA.) Therefore I am always on the defensive.

As for Kerry’s service, here are my issues with his Purple Hearts. There are many men who were horrifically wounded during that war, some to this day have not received their medals. While noted on their DD214 the US Army has not seen fit to award them the actual medals. Many men did not report minor wounds because they did not want to be taken from their units, thus leaving them shorthanded, or the fear of having to live with the fact that one of their buddies took a bullet that was meant for them. Some men were wounded horribly 2 times with serious wounds, life threatening wounds, and were sent back to fight. So for John Kerry to run around the country bragging he is a war hero wounded 3 times, when those wounds required nothing more than some stitches and a days rest. I think it is insulting, and disrespectful to the men who were really wounded, and stayed in the fight for the men around them, or the men who were wounded far worse, and went back to the lines while he took the back door out. Especially disrespectful to those who were never honored by receiving the medals that Senator Kerry so theatrically threw back.

So basically, I think Kerry has made a career out of stepping in the blood of the men who served around him.

Wanna hear what I think about his Silver Star?

And can I be designated a conservative again? It is strange over here on the left, the women don’t shave.

 

[Avatar4321]

Cant see how you can compare Bill Clinton dodging the draft to George Bush serving in the Guard. Because its very clear that Bush served. How one can be two sided on that issue is beyond me.

 

[MtnBiker]

Fletch, you seem quite knowing about Kerry's medals. Maybe you can help me, do you know who applied for Kerry's medals?

 

[Fletch]

Originally posted by Avatar4321
Cant see how you can compare Bill Clinton dodging the draft to George Bush serving in the Guard. Because its very clear that Bush served. How one can be two sided on that issue is beyond me.

I can't say I disagree with you. I guess I did not really think that one through.

 

[mrbitterness]

Originally posted by Avatar4321
You know its kinda funny watching Liberals yell about the President's lies they have yet to name. i was on a message board earlier and a liberal woman was yelling how we cant have a liar for President. And im just like. do you really think that any American believes you after what you guys said about lying not being important during the 90s? I mean they could atleast provide an example of a lie. But for some reason Democrats seem to think a lie is a statement like the one the President made in the State of the Union last year about the British intelligence detailing how Iraq was seeking yellow cake, which of course is true! The British intelligence to this day claim its true. So how exactly was Bush lying to say it? especially considering yellow cake was found being smuggled out of Iraq months ago.

And then the best was James Carville, Clintons right hand man. He was yelling up a storm on how horrible it is to have a liar as President. And i was just like, James we know, you defended one for 8 years. These liberals are so funny. The best part is, its only March! We have atleast another 8 months of entertainment! Its just going to get better and better.

What's the big deal about lying. Afterall, we were all tricked into believeing that WW1 was the war to end all wars. At least you know that your President is a good actor. He deserves an Oscar Normination.

 

[Fletch]

Originally posted by MtnBiker
Fletch, you seem quite knowing about Kerry's medals. Maybe you can help me, do you know who applied for Kerry's medals?

Straight answer. I do not. But that is not really the point. The point is that he uses them to promote his "War Hero" status. While hididng from the public what he got them for. In my eyes he is no more of a hero then any other guy who served there. Both John Mcain, and Bob Dole made thier records open to the public when they were running, why not Kerry?

Just for the record. I do not want to seem ungreatful to John Kerry for his service, for that I am very thankful. I just have a problem with him using it to promote himself which is disrespecful of the thousands of others served and died there.

 

[kcmcdonald]

Fletch,
Sorry man to jump you, thought i was reading dribble again. I was not thinking right at the time, Sorry man my bad!!

Uhh dude….. I am on your side. Check out my other posts and I think you will see. I was simply demonstrating that WE have our own little issue that can bite us in the ass. However, I am glad you jumped my shit because it gave me some ammo to use in the future. Unfortunately, I live in Liberal central (Cambridge, MA.) Therefore I am always on the defensive

 

[MtnBiker]

Originally posted by Fletch
Straight answer. I do not. But that is not really the point. The point is that he uses them to promote his "War Hero" status. While hididng from the public what he got them for. In my eyes he is no more of a hero then any other guy who served there. Both John Mcain, and Bob Dole made thier records open to the public when they were running, why not Kerry?

Just for the record. I do not want to seem ungreatful to John Kerry for his service, for that I am very thankful. I just have a problem with him using it to promote himself which is disrespecful of the thousands of others served and died there.

I quite agree Fletch. I had heard that Kerry applied for his medals himself. I was just curious if indeed that was true and if so if it was unusual for someone to do that.

 

[Fletch]

Originally posted by MtnBiker
I quite agree Fletch. I had heard that Kerry applied for his medals himself. I was just curious if indeed that was true and if so if it was unusual for someone to do that.

I have read somewhere that he actively pursued the part where since he had 3 wounds he got to go home. Unfortunatley, I have no evidence of that. I actually broke down and bought, very reluctantly mind you, a copy of "Tour of Duty". I made it through about 10 pages and couldn't take it anymore. I am going to try and push through it but ......it just hurts.

 

[MtnBiker]

Best of luck to you.

 

[kcmcdonald]

man fletch that's a sacrifice, best of luck to ya man jsut remmber it's all lies. Don't get converted

 

[Fletch]

Originally posted by kcmcdonald
man fletch that's a sacrifice, best of luck to ya man jsut remmber it's all lies. Don't get converted

Wanna have some real fun? The Kerry website has it's own forum. Go in there and see if you can get a straight answer out of anybody. I went and very politely asked straight questions about rumors on his war record, winter soldier, VVAW, and voting record and all I got was that I should read Tour of Duty. I guess that is the bible to them. So I guess I will learn about the enemy.

 

[LoneVoice]

Originally posted by Fletch
.

As for Kerry’s service, here are my issues with his Purple Hearts. There are many men who were horrifically wounded during that war, some to this day have not received their medals. While noted on their DD214 the US Army has not seen fit to award them the actual medals. Many men did not report minor wounds because they did not want to be taken from their units, thus leaving them shorthanded, or the fear of having to live with the fact that one of their buddies took a bullet that was meant for them. Some men were wounded horribly 2 times with serious wounds, life threatening wounds, and were sent back to fight. So for John Kerry to run around the country bragging he is a war hero wounded 3 times, when those wounds required nothing more than some stitches and a days rest. I think it is insulting, and disrespectful to the men who were really wounded, and stayed in the fight for the men around them, or the men who were wounded far worse, and went back to the lines while he took the back door out. Especially disrespectful to those who were never honored by receiving the medals that Senator Kerry so theatrically threw back.

So basically, I think Kerry has made a career out of stepping in the blood of the men who served around him.

Wanna hear what I think about his Silver Star?

Not that it's technically spelled out somewhere, but there is sorta an indirect chain of respect.

Serving in Vietnam and dying
Serving in Vietnam next to soldiers dying
Serving in Vietnam and getting wounded
returning for more service
wanting to return, but getting shipped home due to extensive injury.
wanting to go home, but getting returned for more service (could arguable rearrange the order of the two).
wanting to go home and getting shipped home
weasling your way home any way you can

Serving in Vietnam in noncombat situations

Serving in the military in noncombat situations (i.e. in U.S. National Guard)
serving in a capacity that could end up getting you shipped to Vietnam for combat situations
serving in a capacity that could end up getting you shipped to Vietnam for non-combat situations
exerting power and influence to ensure that you will not engage in combat (especially bad if allowed additional nonmilitary related leave of absence)

Not serving in the military under any capacity

Not serving as a result of conscientiously objecting (i.e. Muhammed Ali -- arguably this could be moved up the chain a few notches).

Intentionally dodging military service (i.e. leaving the country)


I'm sure that I haven't listed them all.... Nor intended to. Nor have I got the order down to an exact science. Just wanted to capture the main points. Vietnam can be replaced with the term "war". I just used Vietnam because it is applicable to the two candidates.

Overall, it's not that significant of an issue. The only reason it really ever comes up, is because Republicans usually like to think of their candidates as having strong war service (when possible). In this case, the Democratic candidate is higher on the chart. As a result Republicans want to attempt to discredit the opposition's standing, but are in a slight dilemma because in general they don't want to discredit anyone's military service.

 

[_dmp_]

But to those of us who may have served, it's a HUGE issue. To 'not get' medals one deserves sucks MUCH less than watching some yahoo get medals he/she did NOTHING to earn.



It's a sign of (the lack of) integrity.

 

[LoneVoice]

Originally posted by dmp
But to those of us who may have served, it's a HUGE issue. To 'not get' medals one deserves sucks MUCH less than watching some yahoo get medals he/she did NOTHING to earn.

It's a sign of (the lack of) integrity.

Agreed.... Ultimately that doesn't have anything to do with Kerry.

If there is a lack of integrity it involves the military following their processes for delivering medals to those deserving.

I'm sure that neither of the candidates exerted any influence to ensure that all of the people wounded in Vietnam didn't receive their medals.

 

[5stringJeff]

Look, if Kerry got the wounds while in combat, then he deserves a Purple Heart. The award does not differentiate between those who lose a limb, die, are hospitalized, or just got a "flesh wound." Same award goes to all of them. Whether that's right or wrong is DoD policy. But if Kerry was wounded three times in combat, regardless of whether it was a minor wound or a major one, he still was wounded, three times, and deserves to get three Purple Hearts.

That said, Kerry getting wounded in Vietnam means absolutely zilch when I size him up as a Presidential candidate. His voting record and proposed policies - both some of the most liberal in the country - make him Unfit for Duty in my book.

 

[LoneVoice]

Originally posted by gop_jeff
Look, if Kerry got the wounds while in combat, then he deserves a Purple Heart. The award does not differentiate between those who lose a limb, die, are hospitalized, or just got a "flesh wound." Same award goes to all of them. Whether that's right or wrong is DoD policy. But if Kerry was wounded three times in combat, regardless of whether it was a minor wound or a major one, he still was wounded, three times, and deserves to get three Purple Hearts.

That said, Kerry getting wounded in Vietnam means absolutely zilch when I size him up as a Presidential candidate. His voting record and proposed policies - both some of the most liberal in the country - make him Unfit for Duty in my book.

Agreed.... He if he got wounds then he deserves the Purple Hearts. If they were illegitimate wounds, then the DoD should not have awarded them to him.

If you say that Kerry's service in Vietnam means zilch, then that would be a change in Republican philosophy that normally exalts Presidential candidates war record.

Ultimately, I think war record has little bearing (some, but not most significant) on whether a candidate will make a good President.