Lent starts today

[buttercup]

Being vegan may or may not be as hard, but it involves a total change in not just your thinking about food, but your lifestyle. It probably starts with understanding what veganism means. One definition means you get rid of animal products such as a leather belt or purse. Or if your mom tells you to wash your mouth out with soap, it should not be made from animal fat. Or you care about the environment and animals, so you try to fix non-existent global warming. If that isn't veganism, then please enlighten me.

What Is a Vegan and Why You Should Consider Veganism

I don't know if this was directed to me, but when did I ever claim otherwise? I've been vegan for almost 4 years now, of course I know that it's not a diet, it's a complete paradigm shift in the way we think about animals, and this world. Here is the definition that most vegans go by, but at its core it's simply about not exploiting animals or harming them unnecessarily.

"Veganism is a way of living which seeks to exclude, as far as is possible and practicable, all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other purpose." source​

But getting back to what I originally said, it's not that hard these days. And even the article you linked to said that in the very first sentence, lol. So I'm not sure what you were objecting to?

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

I dont have sex anyways

No shit

 

[james bond]

Being vegan may or may not be as hard, but it involves a total change in not just your thinking about food, but your lifestyle. It probably starts with understanding what veganism means. One definition means you get rid of animal products such as a leather belt or purse. Or if your mom tells you to wash your mouth out with soap, it should not be made from animal fat. Or you care about the environment and animals, so you try to fix non-existent global warming. If that isn't veganism, then please enlighten me.

What Is a Vegan and Why You Should Consider Veganism

I don't know if this was directed to me, but when did I ever claim otherwise? I've been vegan for almost 4 years now, of course I know that it's not a diet, it's a complete paradigm shift in the way we think about animals, and this world. Here is the definition that most vegans go by, but at its core it's simply about not exploiting animals or harming them unnecessarily.

"Veganism is a way of living which seeks to exclude, as far as is possible and practicable, all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other purpose." source​

But getting back to what I originally said, it's not that hard these days. And even the article you linked to said that in the very first sentence, lol. So I'm not sure what you were objecting to?

I had a feeling as such and was getting at veganism as something more than related to diet and that the focus is not about fasting. It is something more than food because it involves liberal politics and thinking. It's okay if that's your politics and how you want to live your life, but it's not a way to save the world even for animals. More importantly, the Christian idea of fasting is to focus on God. That is the idea behind Matthew 6:16-18.

 

[Meriweather]

Can you define penance, in your own words?

Penance is something that is undertaken as an expression of contrition. It is worth noting that this penance is usually done after a sin has been forgiven. It is a discipline so that (hopefully) one doesn't go out and re-commit the sin they are endeavoring to overcome.

 

[Meriweather]

So, it seems to be more a religious thing, just going through the motions because everyone else is doing it....which is not what God wants from us. Also, it seems to support a works-based mentality, which is misleading, when it comes to what truly matters. (But I don't want to get into a big debate on that, at least not here and now.)

Would you say Jesus was just going through the motions when he celebrated Passover, Festival of Booths, Hanukkah, etc.? When he went out into the desert to fast and pray, it was merely going through the motions?

Ever hear the faith without works is dead? About showing faith by deeds? (Both from James). I don't know what non-Catholics mean when they say that they have a works-based mentality, so as you say, perhaps another time.

 

[Meriweather]

That same principle is found throughout the bible, as you can see in the Old Testament as well, like in Zechariah 7 and Isaiah 58. The "fast" that God says He wants is in bold:

Yes, readings like those and Joel, and Matthew 6 are the readings we use to begin the Lenten season. God wants us to rend our hearts, not our garments; not look like we are fasting, etc.

 

[Meriweather]

You mentioned giving the money one saved from lent, to the poor... that's good. I was just bringing up my thoughts, based on what I've seen many people do. It's almost like New Year's resolutions, giving something up for a few weeks, but then going back to how we were before. Setting the topic of lent aside for a moment, the bottom line is, God wants us to be born again, completely renewed in a permanent way which means the changes and "works" will come naturally over time, as a result of spiritual birth and regeneration.

Trying to be good on our own strength does not work. It never has and it never will. Trying to do good works if one is still in their natural state is like spraying perfume on a corpse. Spiritual birth is essential and that is what brings radical change and transformation that is not temporary but forever.

Trying to be good by merely thinking someday God will make us good doesn't work either. Isaiah 6 comes to mind. We must be ready to step forward and say, "Here I am, Lord! Send me." Or as John said, "Prepare the way of the Lord." What we can do, we should do. And be always open to sending forth God's Spirit working within us.

 

[buttercup]

Being vegan may or may not be as hard, but it involves a total change in not just your thinking about food, but your lifestyle. It probably starts with understanding what veganism means. One definition means you get rid of animal products such as a leather belt or purse. Or if your mom tells you to wash your mouth out with soap, it should not be made from animal fat. Or you care about the environment and animals, so you try to fix non-existent global warming. If that isn't veganism, then please enlighten me.

What Is a Vegan and Why You Should Consider Veganism

I don't know if this was directed to me, but when did I ever claim otherwise? I've been vegan for almost 4 years now, of course I know that it's not a diet, it's a complete paradigm shift in the way we think about animals, and this world. Here is the definition that most vegans go by, but at its core it's simply about not exploiting animals or harming them unnecessarily.

"Veganism is a way of living which seeks to exclude, as far as is possible and practicable, all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other purpose." source​

But getting back to what I originally said, it's not that hard these days. And even the article you linked to said that in the very first sentence, lol. So I'm not sure what you were objecting to?

I had a feeling as such and was getting at veganism as something more than related to diet and that the focus is not about fasting. It is something more than food because it involves liberal politics and thinking. It's okay if that's your politics and how you want to live your life, but it's not a way to save the world even for animals. More importantly, the Christian idea of fasting is to focus on God. That is the idea behind Matthew 6:16-18.

No, that's not my politics, at all. Even though many vegans are liberals, that doesn't mean it's about liberal politics. I gave you the definition. Are you claiming that liberals have a monopoly on love and respect for animals, and choosing to not exploit them? It shouldn't be a political thing at all, and that is precisely why there are conservatives, libertarians, anarchists and other types who are vegan. Granted, the leftist, secular vegans do have certain views about veganism that I don't agree with, but in general, veganism is simply about not exploiting or needlessly harming animals. And I never claimed veganism was a way to save the world, but choosing to not eat animals DOES save animal lives, so I'm not sure what you meant when you said "it's not a way to save the world even for animals."

 

[buttercup]

So, it seems to be more a religious thing, just going through the motions because everyone else is doing it....which is not what God wants from us. Also, it seems to support a works-based mentality, which is misleading, when it comes to what truly matters. (But I don't want to get into a big debate on that, at least not here and now.)

Would you say Jesus was just going through the motions when he celebrated Passover, Festival of Booths, Hanukkah, etc.? When he went out into the desert to fast and pray, it was merely going through the motions?

Ever hear the faith without works is dead? About showing faith by deeds? (Both from James). I don't know what non-Catholics mean when they say that they have a works-based mentality, so as you say, perhaps another time.

Of course not. I even said in my first post that fasting is a good thing, and of course fasting is biblical. And I'm not against all traditions, there are good, biblical traditions, and there are not-so-good, unbiblical traditions. I'm all for the former, not so much for the latter.

As for faith and works, yes, of course faith without works is dead, and yes I agree with showing our faith through our actions. My point was about not putting the cart before the horse. We don't get saved by our works, and as I said before, good works come as a result of our faith and salvation, a changed mind/heart will inevitably cause changes in a person's actions.

 

[Meriweather]

there are not-so-good, unbiblical traditions. I'm all for the former, not so much for the latter.

What is a not-so-good un-biblical tradition?

 

[Meriweather]

We don't get saved by our works,

Where did you get the idea that we were? Works are inanimate, as opposed to God being an animate being/spirit. It is God's saving spirit which redeems us.

 

[buttercup]

You mentioned giving the money one saved from lent, to the poor... that's good. I was just bringing up my thoughts, based on what I've seen many people do. It's almost like New Year's resolutions, giving something up for a few weeks, but then going back to how we were before. Setting the topic of lent aside for a moment, the bottom line is, God wants us to be born again, completely renewed in a permanent way which means the changes and "works" will come naturally over time, as a result of spiritual birth and regeneration.

Trying to be good on our own strength does not work. It never has and it never will. Trying to do good works if one is still in their natural state is like spraying perfume on a corpse. Spiritual birth is essential and that is what brings radical change and transformation that is not temporary but forever.

Trying to be good by merely thinking someday God will make us good doesn't work either. Isaiah 6 comes to mind. We must be ready to step forward and say, "Here I am, Lord! Send me." Or as John said, "Prepare the way of the Lord." What we can do, we should do. And be always open to sending forth God's Spirit working within us.

I agree, and that's not what I was saying. I was saying that when we are born spiritually, we become a new creation. All the changes don't happen overnight, of course, but it really is as if one's DNA somehow changes. Because we become a new creation, changes will inevitably come, that is one of the signs of salvation, a transformed life. But I do agree that we have to participate in the process of sanctification, by making the right choices everyday and being ready to let God use us, as you mentioned with the Isaiah 6 verse.

 

[buttercup]

there are not-so-good, unbiblical traditions. I'm all for the former, not so much for the latter.

What is a not-so-good un-biblical tradition?

Lots. I could write a list, but we're already off topic here, and I honestly don't want to turn this into a thread about religious traditions that are unbiblical. Maybe on another thread / day, but it will be controversial, for sure. Plus, I gotta eat dinner soon, it's starting to get late. Btw, thanks for the discussion, you are always civil and respectful.

 

[Meriweather]

Lots. I could write a list, but we're already off topic here, and I honestly don't want to turn this into a thread about religious traditions that are unbiblical. Maybe on another thread / day, but it will be controversial, for sure. Plus, I gotta eat dinner soon, it's starting to get late. Btw, thanks for the discussion, you are always civil and respectful.

Thank you. I appreciate the information you present, very informative (and respectful as well). I look forward to further discussions with you when you have the time. Tonight I found myself thinking, "This is interesting--but I need to learn more about it!" Enjoy your dinner.

 

[james bond]

Even though many vegans are liberals, that doesn't mean it's about liberal politics. I gave you the definition. Are you claiming that liberals have a monopoly on love and respect for animals, and choosing to not exploit them?

Humans still have dominion over animals, so they can eat them. However, they can't be cruel to them. I think one can draw the line at not buying fur for clothes and let others make up their own mind. One could just be vegan with food and that is sufficient. This would be okay for Lent and fasting.

Who cares what the liberals' definition is? One definition is a strict vegetarian who consumes no food (such as meat, eggs, or dairy products) that comes from animals.

 

[buttercup]

Humans still have dominion over animals, so they can eat them. However, they can't be cruel to them. I think one can draw the line at not buying fur for clothes and let others make up their own mind. One could just be vegan with food and that is sufficient. This would be okay for Lent and fasting.

"Dominion" does not mean the ability to eat something. We had dominion in the Garden of Eden yet we were given a 100% plant-based diet. (All of creation was, read Genesis 1:29-30) Logically, if having "dominion" over the animals automatically meant the ability to eat them, then in the garden of Eden we would've been slaughtering and eating animals. But flesh-eating was not God's intent or part of God's original design.

Dominion means to rule, it's like a kingship. God has dominion over us, yet He doesn't terrorize, exploit, butcher and eat us.

I did a blog post on the topic of dominion. Please read it: A Closer Look At Dominion - Live Mercifully

Who cares what the liberals' definition is? One definition is a strict vegetarian who consumes no food (such as meat, eggs, or dairy products) that comes from animals.

Who said it was the "liberals' definition? It's not, it's the standard definition that goes back decades, that virtually all vegans agree on. It has NOTHING to do with politics.

Why must you think of everything in terms of partisan politics? That's such a small-minded way to view the world, and it's a false dichotomy. The powers-that-be want people to be stuck in that "left vs right" mindset, because it keeps the masses busy arguing with each other, while the elites who rule this world get away with everything, and laugh at all the useful idiots.

 

[Likkmee]

there are not-so-good, unbiblical traditions. I'm all for the former, not so much for the latter.

What is a not-so-good un-biblical tradition?

Christmas. Easter. Passover ( when the SUN passes over the equator)
I need to order some egg dye while I still have Prime.

 

[Meriweather]

Christmas. Easter. Passover ( when the SUN passes over the equator)
I need to order some egg dye while I still have Prime.

Christmas...true, back in Biblical times, most people did not celebrate birthdays. However, once people did begin celebrating birthdays, they referenced the Bible. Early Christians began celebrating the Lord's day almost immediately, so of course, the Resurrection has always been Biblical. Passover also commemorates an actual event.