LED bulbs pay off in the long run

[BorisTheAnimal]

Ya, so I'd say you got me there. I'm just an enthusiast and a collector of vintage HID lighting.

I do admit, I have a soft spot for the old Mercury lamps that never go out, they just get yellower and yellower and yellower and...

And that's another thing. I work as a delivery driver for one of the nationally recognized distributors and see first hand the shit quality of lamps and fixtures as opposed to the ones I have in my personal collection. I have over 24 cobrahead luminaires along with other assorted fixtures and a couple of traffic signals in my collection. My HID wattages range from 100 watt HPS to 1000 watt HPS and Mercury.

 

[flacaltenn]

I clearly don't see justifying paying $45-$50 for a light that gives off crappy, glary light just so some rare gnat could be saved.

When was the last time you bought an LED light?

Their color renditions have come a long way since the old days.

You can get LED's now over 3500 kelvin.

Thankfully, I never did. I'm very old school when it comes to my lighting and I've got over 30 years' worth of experience in the area. I've seen flops, I've seen successes. LEDs will never appeal to me, especially since the cost is way too prohibitive.

As an aside, I have an old "Saturn" ceiling light in my hallway that I got from my church a while back. I reconditioned it and use the correct lamp in it (300 watt silvered bowl). I just changed out the lamp after seven years of service.

Cost is prohibitive NOW because it takes 2 Americans to screw in a light bulb.. (LOL) And the market is offering mostly bulb for bulb replacements.

Also speaking as an electronics designer with a CLIENT in the area of LED lighting, I can tell you that's it's STONE STUPID to be doing bulb for bulb replacements. That requires a complex power supply to get from 120V mains to about 24Volt DC in each bulb.. Adds cost, greatly lowers reliability..

What SHOULD happen is that the power conversion should be on the electric panel OR in each room, so that the bulbs have virtually nothing in them but the LEDs and a postage stamp size "regulator".. NEW installations will be done this way.. And there are a dozen reasons why having a "DC BUS" available in future makes great sense.. Increases the efficiency of home solar too.. If you're sadistic enough to consider that questionable move.

BTW: When folks don't see a big diff in their electric bill, it may just be because the GOVT and the ECO-FRAUDs have perpetrated a mighty lie.. The incandescent bulb is 100% efficient anytime you use it in an area with HVAC on "heat".. Going to LEDS means that if you have Electric Heating or even a Heat Pump, that it will run longer in the cold months BECAUSE of the LED lighting..

Similiar problem they had Up North when they went to LED traffic lights.. Ending up screwing all that efficiency because they had to install heaters for wintertime to keep the housing and lenses from icing up...

 

[SFC Ollie]

1901, and it had turned off for about 9 hours and came back on.... last i heard..

 

[skookerasbil]

This woman really, really needs to get out every so often!!! Yeeeesh......a thread on LED lightbulbs in the environmental section.

 

[hortysir]

World's Longest Running Lightbulb Goes Out In Livermore « CBS San Francisco

 

[Billo_Really]

Also speaking as an electronics designer with a CLIENT in the area of LED lighting, I can tell you that's it's STONE STUPID to be doing bulb for bulb replacements. That requires a complex power supply to get from 120V mains to about 24Volt DC in each bulb..

No it doesn't! A 50VA-120/24v Class II transformer is about $20 bucks and can be fed from your existing 120v system.

Adds cost, greatly lowers reliability.....

It does add cost.

What SHOULD happen is that the power conversion should be on the electric panel OR in each room...

What the hell does that mean?

Any conversion you do in the building, the panel is going to see it, so what are you talking about?

so that the bulbs have virtually nothing in them but the LEDs

You mean fixtures; the bulbs are what is being replaced.

and a postage stamp size "regulator"..

You mean "driver".

NEW installations will be done this way..

Retro-fits can be done that way as well.

And there are a dozen reasons why having a "DC BUS" available in future makes great sense..

And there is twice as many that doesn't.

Increases the efficiency of home solar too..

That's just because the voltage is compatible.

If you're sadistic enough to consider that questionable move.

BTW: When folks don't see a big diff in their electric bill, it may just be because the GOVT and the ECO-FRAUDs have perpetrated a mighty lie.. The incandescent bulb is 100% efficient anytime you use it in an area with HVAC on "heat".. Going to LEDS means that if you have Electric Heating or even a Heat Pump, that it will run longer in the cold months BECAUSE of the LED lighting..

Bullshit!

Here's the efficacy comparison between incandescents and LED's.

Similiar problem they had Up North when they went to LED traffic lights.. Ending up screwing all that efficiency because they had to install heaters for wintertime to keep the housing and lenses from icing up...

No shit, Sherlock!

 

[Billo_Really]

Ya, so I'd say you got me there. I'm just an enthusiast and a collector of vintage HID lighting.

I do admit, I have a soft spot for the old Mercury lamps that never go out, they just get yellower and yellower and yellower and...

And that's another thing. I work as a delivery driver for one of the nationally recognized distributors and see first hand the shit quality of lamps and fixtures as opposed to the ones I have in my personal collection. I have over 24 cobrahead luminaires along with other assorted fixtures and a couple of traffic signals in my collection. My HID wattages range from 100 watt HPS to 1000 watt HPS and Mercury.

Got any Low Pressure Sodium? The real orange ones?

Any exterior lighting around Mt Palomar in San Diego has to be LPS, or all the star gazers bitch like crazy.

 

[SSDD]

I don't care much for the quality of LED light for reading or close work and didn't really see much difference in my electric bill by using them.

If you want to see a serious change in your electric bill I suggest ignoring the LED light bulbs and installing a NEST thermostat in your home. That little device has saved enough money to pay for itself after 9 months of use.

 

[hortysir]

I don't care much for the quality of LED light for reading or close work and didn't really see much difference in my electric bill by using them.

If you want to see a serious change in your electric bill I suggest ignoring the LED light bulbs and installing a NEST thermostat in your home. That little device has saved enough money to pay for itself after 9 months of use.

What is "NEST"?

 

[SSDD]

I don't care much for the quality of LED light for reading or close work and didn't really see much difference in my electric bill by using them.

If you want to see a serious change in your electric bill I suggest ignoring the LED light bulbs and installing a NEST thermostat in your home. That little device has saved enough money to pay for itself after 9 months of use.

What is "NEST"?

It is a learning thermostat. Leaps and bounds beyond programmables. This thing has reduced my electric bills considerably since I installed it. It is a product that I would recommend to anyone who has an electric heat pump. I don't know how, or even if it works with other sorts of units.

Nest | The Learning*Thermostat | Home

 

[rightwinger]

I have been slowly converting to the LEDs

I started in the Kitchen where the light goes on first thing in the morning and stays on till we go to bed. The Kitchen light fixture was four 40 watt bulbs. Replaced with LEDs of the same brightness but use 7 watts.

160 watts burning all day vs 28 watts

Bulbs cost $10 each

Big savings

 

[flacaltenn]

Also speaking as an electronics designer with a CLIENT in the area of LED lighting, I can tell you that's it's STONE STUPID to be doing bulb for bulb replacements. That requires a complex power supply to get from 120V mains to about 24Volt DC in each bulb..

No it doesn't! A 50VA-120/24v Class II transformer is about $20 bucks and can be fed from your existing 120v system.

What the Hell man.. My observation was that bulb to bulb replacements REQUIRE a Full Safety, EMI, UL approved switching power supply in EACH BULB ! Are you unaware of this? You might be an engineer but you're being combative here and not thinking.. Peoples lighting is NOW edison screw bases powered with 120VAC mains. What does adding a transformer to the box buy them UNLESS the house is wired for DC buss supply?

Adds cost, greatly lowers reliability.....

It does add cost.
Turns out that adding a full certified switcher in the base of EACH BULB also GREATLY reduces the lifetime.. Electrolytic caps have shorter lives than LEDs Especially when they are at elevated temps in an enclosed space.


What the hell does that mean?

Any conversion you do in the building, the panel is going to see it, so what are you talking about?

You mean fixtures; the bulbs are what is being replaced.

You mean "driver".

Retro-fits can be done that way as well.

And there is twice as many that doesn't.

That's just because the voltage is compatible.

If you're sadistic enough to consider that questionable move.

BTW: When folks don't see a big diff in their electric bill, it may just be because the GOVT and the ECO-FRAUDs have perpetrated a mighty lie.. The incandescent bulb is 100% efficient anytime you use it in an area with HVAC on "heat".. Going to LEDS means that if you have Electric Heating or even a Heat Pump, that it will run longer in the cold months BECAUSE of the LED lighting..

Bullshit!

Absolutely not.. You've been lied to by OMISSION.. The fact that I have to explain this to you = severly makes me doubts your claims to tech savviness. Your chart below shows efficiencies based on the energy in light out.. The assumption is that everything else goes to waste (mostly in the form of heat).. For an incandescent, waste heat is ONLY WASTE when the HVAC is not set to Heating. When it is SET TO HEAT (4 to 7 months/ year) it offsets the duty cycle of the HVAC heating. Now your eco-frauds and Fed Govt are too stone stupid to know that or care --- but you and me ought to know when we're getting sold some snake oil.. Like I said,,, from a physics and engineering POV -- an incandescent bulb is 100% efficient when the HVAC heating is set to ON..

Prove me wrong.

Here's the efficacy comparison between incandescents and LED's.

Similiar problem they had Up North when they went to LED traffic lights.. Ending up screwing all that efficiency because they had to install heaters for wintertime to keep the housing and lenses from icing up...

No shit, Sherlock!

See comment in Red..

 

[mamooth]

Absolutely not.. You've been lied to by OMISSION.. The fact that I have to explain this to you = severly makes me doubts your claims to tech savviness.

It's summer now. Waste heat from a light bulb costs double, as the waste heat has to be removed by AC. And the bulk of the human population lives in warmer climates.

So, you trumpeted how waste heat was good because it heats, conveniently neglecting to mention the doubled cost of that waste heat in summer. This makes me doubt your claims to tech savviness. You were either lying by OMISSION, or you were too lazy to think it through logically. Let us know which is the case.

 

[flacaltenn]

Absolutely not.. You've been lied to by OMISSION.. The fact that I have to explain this to you = severly makes me doubts your claims to tech savviness.

It's summer now. Waste heat from a light bulb costs double, as the waste heat has to be removed by AC. And the bulk of the human population lives in warmer climates.

So, you trumpeted how waste heat was good because it heats, conveniently neglecting to mention the doubled cost of that waste heat in summer. This makes me doubt your claims to tech savviness. You were either lying by OMISSION, or you were too lazy to think it through logically. Let us know which is the case.

Well -- let's see how much YOU MISSED... But first, don't you think the GOVT should have trusted me a CHOICE of USING incandescent bulbs in the dead of winter, when I really really want a WARM YELLOW light to get thru long winter nights.

Didya miss the fact that almost every household I KNOW, doesn't run the lighting DURING the HEAT of day when the Air conditioning is cycling fast? Or that if you have a job and leave the house empty -- the lights are not likely on and the AC SHOULD be turned way warmer?

{EDITED LATE BY FlaCalTenn}

Or that long nights in the Winter and shorter nights in the Summer are gonna significantly tip the balance of "waste heat" towards USEFUL?

Even in the desert summer in Winslow AZ, it can get downright chilly at night when residential lighting is peaked. About 30 degrees cooler than daytime.

Perhaps you need to look at the massive heatsinks attached to LED bulbs. Even tho FAR MORE EFFICIENT, they are shedding heat as well. When DOE modifies THEIR efficiency to account for air conditioning in the summer -- we can chat...

If you want the FEDS to badger commercial buildings ---- be my guest.. But don't whistle up my ass about my energy use unless you KNOW where I am during the day and what I'm doing to lower my energy bill.

Here's the beef.. HAVE YOU seen even a MENTION of this in ANY of the efficiency analyses done by the Conserve movement or the Govt.? Got NUMBERS??? I believe the real probing of this would yield a much higher "official" efficiency for incandescent. AND a much more realistic goal for migration to LED....

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

LED bulbs pay off in the long run

They cost more now, but light-emitting diodes are shining brighter and lasting longer than traditional light bulbs.

Story Highlights

• LED bulbs can last up to 25 times longer than traditional 40- and 60-watt bulbs.
• Inefficient 100-, 75-, 60- and 40-watt bulbs won't be sold in the U.S. after 2014.
• Forecasters say LED prices will drop as the technology improves.

If they're such a good benefit to everyone why do we have to be forced into buying them?