Justice?

[PoliticalChic]

So anything someone does is no longer unusual because it's been done? So pedophilia is not unusual? Scat porn is not unusual? Dressing like a giant banana when it's not Halloween is not unusual?

Come on PC spend 5 nanoseconds to think before you say stupid shit.

1. "So anything someone does is no longer unusual because it's been done?"
The penalty inflicted is no longer unusual to the perpetrator, since he has used it before.

Don't forget....all murderers believe in the death penalty. And the method chosen is not unusual, as it was chosen by the murderer.


2. "So pedophilia is not unusual? Scat porn is not unusual?"
Oops! Did I step on your personal toes there?

You can keep it up...until they catch you.

And watch your language...see, you're getting excited already!


3. Now here's the part of your post that I like: " ...5 nanoseconds..."
That's how long it should be from the guilty verdict until the time of execution!
It should be finished by the time the jury is filing out.
Bravo!

4. If we were to institute my suggestions, I claim the murder rate would go way down!
I double dog dare you to try it!

I like the way Texas does it, by the dozen!
And, to speed things up, in Texas, the last meal has become a buffet.

What's the murder rate in Texas?

Lower than before it sped up punition.

 

[PoliticalChic]

In 1989, he was convicted on 43 counts, including 13 murders, and the authorities have good reason to believe that he had committed several others.
October 3, 1996, in California's San Quentin Prison he married Doreen Lioy, age 41, was a freelance magazine editor with a bachelor's degree in English.
No execution date has been set.



Where is the justice?

this to me is particularly ridiculous and egregious to the victims families. he was allowed to marry? I am not even going to ask if he was allowed conjugal visits...i don't wan to know.


what is the hold up? why, has he not been executed as sentence stipulates?

Horrifying...

but no conjugal visits are allowed on death row.


If we show mercy to the merciless, we will be mereciless to those who deserve mercy.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Hey, we're on the same side when it comes to the issue of speedy executions for people like this. I just don't think including acts that mirror their savagery in that execution benefits society. Dispatch them quickly and cleanly, as one would a rabid dog.

I understand that our differences may be minimal, but this is a good opportunity to discuss same...

To summon up an analogy, isn't war, the only way to handle certain situations and events, "acts that mirror their savagery," and, in fact, the only way to convince some opponents?

No and yes. Yes, war is the only way to convince some opponents, and no, it doesn't require us to mirror their savagery. An opponent that targets civlians, for example, does not require us to target civilians ourselves to conduct or win a war. An opponent who brutalizes POWs does not require us to brutalize POWs. As savage and horrific as war is, there are still differences in the ways of conducting it that distinguish civilized people, pushed to defend themselves, from evil, bestial people.

Further, the prison life that many sustain is far from the horror that many victims face.

There was the Richard Speck case,

1. "In 1966, a twenty-four-year-old sailor named Richard Speck committed one of the most shocking crimes in American history. Intruding into a dormitory of female student nurses, he tied up nine women, and then systematically murdered eight of them. The one survivor hid under a bed, and Speck missed her during his homicidal rampage."
Richard Speck "Supermale" by Denise Noe

He took female hormones, and 'became' a woman in prison:
2. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQlmquevkxg&feature=related

"if they only knew how much fun I was having, they'd let me loose"

This beast, who slaughtered eight young women,was allowed to die a natural death.

Again, I appreciate the need to make executions speedier, and to make prison less like a vacation, but that doesn't equate to trying to re-enact a killer's crime on him.

C'mon...just for murderers? Pleeeeeeeze!!!!

 

[PoliticalChic]

So anything someone does is no longer unusual because it's been done? So pedophilia is not unusual? Scat porn is not unusual? Dressing like a giant banana when it's not Halloween is not unusual?

Come on PC spend 5 nanoseconds to think before you say stupid shit.

1. "So anything someone does is no longer unusual because it's been done?"
The penalty inflicted is no longer unusual to the perpetrator, since he has used it before.

That is not what unusual means. It never meant that. Ever. "It's unusual for him to be up this late, but here he is."

4. If we were to institute my suggestions, I claim the murder rate would go way down!
I double dog dare you to try it!

I dare you to prove it'll work first.

You know PC this is really getting pathetic, you know damn well that your idea violates the 8th amendment and instead of admitting it you'd rather delude yourself into thinking it doesn't.

I can wish, can't I?

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03TDbOSHbzg&feature=related[/ame]

 

[jillian]

"if they only knew how much fun I was having, they'd let me loose"

This beast, who slaughtered eight young women,was allowed to die a natural death.

surely you're not implying that we should gauge our opinions on what one sociopath may or may not have claimed.

there are many reasons that it takes a long time to get someone from conviction to death penalty...

among these is the fact that hundreds of people have been exonerated because of DNA evidence.

i would direct your attention to the Innocence Project, which has been hugely responsible for getting wrongfully convicted people freed.

The Innocence Project is a national litigation and public policy organization dedicated to exonerating wrongfully convicted people through DNA testing and reforming the criminal justice system to prevent future injustice.

The Innocence Project was founded at Benjamin N. Cardozo School of Law at Yeshiva University in 1992, and became an independent nonprofit organization (still closely affiliated with Cardozo) in 2004. Since the organization’s founding, more than 250 people have been exonerated through DNA testing in the United States, including 17 who were at one time sentenced to death. In most of these DNA exonerations, the Innocence Project either was the attorney of record or consulted with the defendant’s attorneys. Our unique combination of science, law, and social justice has created a cohesive and powerful program for individual freedom and policy reform.

The Innocence Project - About Us: FAQs:What is the Innocence Project? How did it get started?

There are many reasons that the process should not be shortened because of the incredible risk of murdering an innocent person. The primary causes for improper conviction:

1. eyewitness misidentification
2. unvalidated or improper forensics
3. false confessions/admissinos
4. government misconduct
5. informants/snitches
6. bad lawyering

The Innocence Project - Understand the Causes

in terms of eyewitness misidentification alone, there are huge problems. this particularly stems from, among other issues, the fact that the inter-racial recognition rate is something like 15%. add to this the fact that the death penalty is most often used against minority defendants, and you have a recipe for disaster without even getting into the other issues.

i know that many on the far right say kill 'em all and let g-d sort them out (paraphrasing here), but really, i'd hate to think a single innocent is killed.

personally, i think but for a very few cases, where there is zero question as to identity and the crime is so heinous that the person barely deserves to breathe, there shouldn't be a death penalty.

the fact that we're the only western nation that still has a death penalty speaks volumes.. not to mention the fact that it is cheaper to imprison someone for life without parole than to give the death penalty.

 

[Cecilie1200]

I understand that our differences may be minimal, but this is a good opportunity to discuss same...

To summon up an analogy, isn't war, the only way to handle certain situations and events, "acts that mirror their savagery," and, in fact, the only way to convince some opponents?

No and yes. Yes, war is the only way to convince some opponents, and no, it doesn't require us to mirror their savagery. An opponent that targets civlians, for example, does not require us to target civilians ourselves to conduct or win a war. An opponent who brutalizes POWs does not require us to brutalize POWs. As savage and horrific as war is, there are still differences in the ways of conducting it that distinguish civilized people, pushed to defend themselves, from evil, bestial people.

Further, the prison life that many sustain is far from the horror that many victims face.

There was the Richard Speck case,

1. "In 1966, a twenty-four-year-old sailor named Richard Speck committed one of the most shocking crimes in American history. Intruding into a dormitory of female student nurses, he tied up nine women, and then systematically murdered eight of them. The one survivor hid under a bed, and Speck missed her during his homicidal rampage."
Richard Speck "Supermale" by Denise Noe

He took female hormones, and 'became' a woman in prison:
2. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQlmquevkxg&feature=related

"if they only knew how much fun I was having, they'd let me loose"

This beast, who slaughtered eight young women,was allowed to die a natural death.

Again, I appreciate the need to make executions speedier, and to make prison less like a vacation, but that doesn't equate to trying to re-enact a killer's crime on him.

C'mon...just for murderers? Pleeeeeeeze!!!!

If it makes you feel any better, the guy I sent to prison opted to waive all his appeals (other than the first, automatic one for any death-penalty case, which can't be waived) because he said prison had been so bad, he preferred getting it over with. So see, HE suffered for almost ten years. Happy?

 

[Father Time]

If we show mercy to the merciless, we will be mereciless to those who deserve mercy.

Why?

 

[PoliticalChic]

"if they only knew how much fun I was having, they'd let me loose"

This beast, who slaughtered eight young women,was allowed to die a natural death.

surely you're not implying that we should gauge our opinions on what one sociopath may or may not have claimed.

there are many reasons that it takes a long time to get someone from conviction to death penalty...

among these is the fact that hundreds of people have been exonerated because of DNA evidence.

i would direct your attention to the Innocence Project, which has been hugely responsible for getting wrongfully convicted people freed.

The Innocence Project is a national litigation and public policy organization dedicated to exonerating wrongfully convicted people through DNA testing and reforming the criminal justice system to prevent future injustice.

The Innocence Project was founded at Benjamin N. Cardozo School of Law at Yeshiva University in 1992, and became an independent nonprofit organization (still closely affiliated with Cardozo) in 2004. Since the organization’s founding, more than 250 people have been exonerated through DNA testing in the United States, including 17 who were at one time sentenced to death. In most of these DNA exonerations, the Innocence Project either was the attorney of record or consulted with the defendant’s attorneys. Our unique combination of science, law, and social justice has created a cohesive and powerful program for individual freedom and policy reform.

The Innocence Project - About Us: FAQs:What is the Innocence Project? How did it get started?

There are many reasons that the process should not be shortened because of the incredible risk of murdering an innocent person. The primary causes for improper conviction:

1. eyewitness misidentification
2. unvalidated or improper forensics
3. false confessions/admissinos
4. government misconduct
5. informants/snitches
6. bad lawyering

The Innocence Project - Understand the Causes

in terms of eyewitness misidentification alone, there are huge problems. this particularly stems from, among other issues, the fact that the inter-racial recognition rate is something like 15%. add to this the fact that the death penalty is most often used against minority defendants, and you have a recipe for disaster without even getting into the other issues.

i know that many on the far right say kill 'em all and let g-d sort them out (paraphrasing here), but really, i'd hate to think a single innocent is killed.

personally, i think but for a very few cases, where there is zero question as to identity and the crime is so heinous that the person barely deserves to breathe, there shouldn't be a death penalty.

the fact that we're the only western nation that still has a death penalty speaks volumes.. not to mention the fact that it is cheaper to imprison someone for life without parole than to give the death penalty.

Certainly a good point, the Innocence Project, and the science it represents cuts both ways.
Bravo!

But the thread is based on a certain type of case, a certain kind of felon.

And, actually, I think it may be an error not to consider the effect of the punishment on the felon. Many believe that the mere monotony of a prison cell is the actual punishment, there are groups to whom this is not enough...the Richard Speck's, or gang leaders who can construct their own reality within the prison...

Atavistic though it may be, I want to see the Richard Ramirez's and Richard Speck's suffer.


"i know that many on the far right say kill 'em all and let g-d sort them out (paraphrasing here), but really, i'd hate to think a single innocent is killed."

I can respect that point of view...but I have read statistical studies that correlate each murderer released from prison to innocents killed...

1. According to roughly a dozen recent studies, executions save lives. For each inmate put to death, the studies say, 3 to 18 murders are prevented. http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/18/us/18deter.html?_r=2&pagewanted=1&hp

2. It is possible that this correlated relationship could be mere coincidence, so we did a regression analysis on the 26-year relationship. The association was significant at the .00005 level, which meant the odds against the pattern being simply a random happening are about 18,000 to one. Further analysis revealed that each execution seems to be associated with 71 fewer murders in the year the execution took place.
Capital Punishment Works - WSJ.com

My point? I believe that the judicial system should be victim-centered, rather than perpetrator-centered.

I think reading Philip Carlo's book would make your blood boil.

 

[PoliticalChic]

If we show mercy to the merciless, we will be mereciless to those who deserve mercy.

Why?

See post #48

 

[Father Time]

If we show mercy to the merciless, we will be mereciless to those who deserve mercy.

Why?

See post #48

That doesn't explain why, all that was was a deterrence argument for the death penalty.