Judeah and Samaria = West Bank!!

[docmauser1]

Schlomo Sand, The Invention of the Jewish People

Simon Schama showed that that marxist was wrong.

What was Shlomo Sand wrong about?

Everything, naturally. Schama's review of the Sand's drivel appeared in the Financial Times, but certain cool excerpts can be found in other sources, of course.

Rather then just this general attack of the messenger and demonization by calling him a marxist, please tell me what he said that he was wrong about.

And, oh, Schloma is a marxist-communist too! Bth..

 

[SherriMunnerlyn]

What are you talking about now, idiot? There are millions of Jews that read and practice from the same Old Testament. They didn't "just come to be", they SURVIVED all these thousands of years, their culture, identity, and traditions INTACT. Read the book first and then speak. The book describes the physical and historical factual journey of the Jewish people. There are thousands upon thousands of artifacts and archeological sites in Israel With Hebrew inscription proving the existence of the Jewish people and the land of Israel. How many do Arabs have? NONE. The record of what happened to the Jews are also confirmed by the independent historical accounts of ancient Greece, Rome, and Persia.

All your squirming is meaningless drivel obtained from a hate site. There isn't a single correct fact in that article. If you read some of the other articles on that same garbage site it becomes quite clear what it is.

Roudy,

Let's see your archaelogical evidence or historical evidence that the Exodus occurred, please, as well as everything else in The Old Testament.

My faith as a Christian does not depend on anything in The Old Testament.

Sherri

Take the OT away and what significance does the NT have? Assuming everything from the OT was subtracted. To me the OT is the technical manual, the NT is the drivers handbook. My comparison.

Hossfly,

What does Testament mean? Covenant. We have, in the Christian Bible, The Old Testament, and The New Testament, an old covenant and a new covenant. Christians have Salvation under The New Covenant, Jesus Himself says in the Book of John that He shows us who God is. The Apostle Paul tells us Salvation, for Jew and Gentile, after Jesus coming (who fulfilled the promises in the Old Testament), is only available under the New Covenant. So, I am not seeing anything I need for my faith in Jesus in The Old Testament, the old covenant.

Key Verse John 3:16

For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

No, there is nothing written there in John 3:16 about my faith being dependent on believing literally what was written in The Old Testament. It is not that I do not generally believe it, The Old Testament, I just question how I can literally believe all that is written there. Literal readings would show God with a different character than the God Jesus depicts. In particular, I point out that under a literal interpretation of The Old Testament God is portrayed as sanctioning ethnic cleansing. This is not consistent with Jesus commands to love every person. So, frankly, I see a literal interpretation of The Old Testament as requiring a person to reject the teachings of Jesus, and reject Jesus, that I will not do.

Sherri

 

[docmauser1]

There is no historical evidence that the jewish diaspora ever occured. And the possibility exists that it is the Palestinian's, who are the direct decendants of the Israelites.

We know that stealing jewish history is a palistanian occupation, and now they want to be jews too. Ain't that hysterically hilarious?! Can't we refer to palistanians as "undefined arabs" now?

 

[Hossfly]

Roudy,

Let's see your archaelogical evidence or historical evidence that the Exodus occurred, please, as well as everything else in The Old Testament.

My faith as a Christian does not depend on anything in The Old Testament.

Sherri

Take the OT away and what significance does the NT have? Assuming everything from the OT was subtracted. To me the OT is the technical manual, the NT is the drivers handbook. My comparison.

Hossfly,

What does Testament mean? Covenant. We have, in the Christian Bible, The Old Testament, and The New Testament, an old covenant and a new covenant. Christians have Salvation under The New Covenant, Jesus Himself says in the Book of John that He shows us who God is. The Apostle Paul tells us Salvation, for Jew and Gentile, after Jesus coming (who fulfilled the promises in the Old Testament), is only available under the New Covenant. So, I am not seeing anything I need for my faith in Jesus in The Old Testament, the old covenant.

Key Verse John 3:16

For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

No, there is nothing written there in John 3:16 about my faith being dependent on believing literally what was written in The Old Testament. It is not that I do not generally believe it, The Old Testament, I just question how I can literally believe all that is written there. Literal readings would show God with a different character than the God Jesus depicts. In particular, I point out that under a literal interpretation of The Old Testament God is portrayed as sanctioning ethnic cleansing. This is not consistent with Jesus commands to love every person. So, frankly, I see a literal interpretation of The Old Testament as requiring a person to reject the teachings of Jesus, and reject Jesus, that I will not do.

Sherri

The issue boils down to this: You have your "God", I have mine. I'll stake my chances on mine. Finis.

 

[Hossfly]

Take the OT away and what significance does the NT have? Assuming everything from the OT was subtracted. To me the OT is the technical manual, the NT is the drivers handbook. My comparison.

Hossfly,

What does Testament mean? Covenant. We have, in the Christian Bible, The Old Testament, and The New Testament, an old covenant and a new covenant. Christians have Salvation under The New Covenant, Jesus Himself says in the Book of John that He shows us who God is. The Apostle Paul tells us Salvation, for Jew and Gentile, after Jesus coming (who fulfilled the promises in the Old Testament), is only available under the New Covenant. So, I am not seeing anything I need for my faith in Jesus in The Old Testament, the old covenant.

Key Verse John 3:16

For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

No, there is nothing written there in John 3:16 about my faith being dependent on believing literally what was written in The Old Testament. It is not that I do not generally believe it, The Old Testament, I just question how I can literally believe all that is written there. Literal readings would show God with a different character than the God Jesus depicts. In particular, I point out that under a literal interpretation of The Old Testament God is portrayed as sanctioning ethnic cleansing. This is not consistent with Jesus commands to love every person. So, frankly, I see a literal interpretation of The Old Testament as requiring a person to reject the teachings of Jesus, and reject Jesus, that I will not do.

Sherri

The issue boils down to this: You have your "God", I have mine. I'll stake my chances on mine. Finis.

P.S.- Mine carries the biggest stick.

 

[SherriMunnerlyn]

Incidentally, there's a simple 'answer' to all the commotion about the Exodus: just reduce the numbers!

MHunterB,

You might be right about that, I do not think I will have the answers to all my questions about The Old Testament until after I die. I may seem to be overly critical of it, but it so much comes out of my own personal struggles with passages, and despite all of this, my favorite book of the Christian Bible after the Gospels is the book of Isaiah. And that is very personal, I was dealing with fear in my life and I was reading Isaiah, with a Matthew Henry Commentary, day after day, working my way through Isaiah, and one day the fear went away and it never returned.

Sherri

 

[Roudy]

What are you talking about now, idiot? There are millions of Jews that read and practice from the same Old Testament. They didn't "just come to be", they SURVIVED all these thousands of years, their culture, identity, and traditions INTACT. Read the book first and then speak. The book describes the physical and historical factual journey of the Jewish people. There are thousands upon thousands of artifacts and archeological sites in Israel With Hebrew inscription proving the existence of the Jewish people and the land of Israel. How many do Arabs have? NONE. The record of what happened to the Jews are also confirmed by the independent historical accounts of ancient Greece, Rome, and Persia.

All your squirming is meaningless drivel obtained from a hate site. There isn't a single correct fact in that article. If you read some of the other articles on that same garbage site it becomes quite clear what it is.

There is no historical evidence that the jewish diaspora ever occured. And the possibility exists that it is the Palestinian's, who are the direct decendants of the Israelites.

Yes there is. Romans, Greeks, and especially the Persian records independently confirm the diaspora. Palestinians are Arabs identical In culture and genes to neighboring Arabs, and recent invaders. You are extremely ignorant.

 

[SherriMunnerlyn]

What are you talking about now, idiot? There are millions of Jews that read and practice from the same Old Testament. They didn't "just come to be", they SURVIVED all these thousands of years, their culture, identity, and traditions INTACT. Read the book first and then speak. The book describes the physical and historical factual journey of the Jewish people. There are thousands upon thousands of artifacts and archeological sites in Israel With Hebrew inscription proving the existence of the Jewish people and the land of Israel. How many do Arabs have? NONE. The record of what happened to the Jews are also confirmed by the independent historical accounts of ancient Greece, Rome, and Persia.

All your squirming is meaningless drivel obtained from a hate site. There isn't a single correct fact in that article. If you read some of the other articles on that same garbage site it becomes quite clear what it is.

There is no historical evidence that the jewish diaspora ever occured. And the possibility exists that it is the Palestinian's, who are the direct decendants of the Israelites.

Yes there is. Romans, Greeks, and especially the Persian records independently confirm the diaspora. Palestinians are Arabs identical In culture and genes to neighboring Arabs, and recent invaders. You are extremely ignorant.

Roudy,

Noone is claiming Jews have no history in the land of Palestine, and I think there has been a Diaspora, that was even written about at the time of Jesus.

What I am saying is that we cannot simply take the religious writings as proof of history, especially when the facts recorded cannot be backed up by archaeology and other historical accounts.

That article you so hate points out accurately that the Kingdom of Israel recorded in religious writings lasted under 100 years. For a people to claim a right to kick out indigenous peoples over a nation that only previously was in existence for less than 100 years, thousands of years ago is ridiculous.

Sherri

 

[Roudy]

There is no historical evidence that the jewish diaspora ever occured. And the possibility exists that it is the Palestinian's, who are the direct decendants of the Israelites.

Yes there is. Romans, Greeks, and especially the Persian records independently confirm the diaspora. Palestinians are Arabs identical In culture and genes to neighboring Arabs, and recent invaders. You are extremely ignorant.

Roudy,

Noone is claiming Jews have no history in the land of Palestine, and I think there has been a Diaspora, that was even written about at the time of Jesus.

What I am saying is that we cannot simply take the religious writings as proof of history, especially when the facts recorded cannot be backed up by archaeology and other historical accounts.

That article you so hate points out accurately that the Kingdom of Israel recorded in religious writings lasted under 100 years. For a people to claim a right to kick out indigenous peoples over a nation that only previously was in existence for less than 100 years, thousands of years ago is ridiculous.

Sherri

Actually Jewish ties to the land of Israel are more in physical evidence than religious. The religious merely confirms the physical evidence. It is the Muslims that claim their ties to the land is based on a false interpretation that Mohammad's soul flew to Jerusalem. All the Koran says is after Mohammad died, his soul to the mosque over there. Later clerics made up Arab imperialistic shit that over there means Jerusalem ha ha ha

Problem is Jews maintained a presence and the Muslims are recent invaders with no physical evidence of this mythical Arab Palestine.

 

[Billo_Really]

The issue boils down to this: You have your "God", I have mine. I'll stake my chances on mine. Finis.

Nope. They happen to be the same guy.

No matter what name you call him, there is only one HIM.

 

[Billo_Really]

Everything, naturally. Schama's review of the Sand's drivel appeared in the Financial Times, but certain cool excerpts can be found in other sources, of course. And, oh, Schloma is a marxist-communist too!

Funny how you can't state what's wrong about what he [Sand] said. The best you can do is refer to the writings of someone else and you can't even state what they said! This shows you're just winging it and don't have a clue as to what you're talking about.

 

[Hossfly]

Incidentally, there's a simple 'answer' to all the commotion about the Exodus: just reduce the numbers!

MHunterB,

You might be right about that, I do not think I will have the answers to all my questions about The Old Testament until after I die. I may seem to be overly critical of it, but it so much comes out of my own personal struggles with passages, and despite all of this, my favorite book of the Christian Bible after the Gospels is the book of Isaiah. And that is very personal, I was dealing with fear in my life and I was reading Isaiah, with a Matthew Henry Commentary, day after day, working my way through Isaiah, and one day the fear went away and it never returned.

Sherri

I wonder if the allegedly 'good Christian' Sherri ever thinks about the fear experienced by the Christians in Muslim countries. Muslim Persecution of Christians: May 2012 :: Gatestone Institute


jt2

 

[Billo_Really]

Actually Jewish ties to the land of Israel are more in physical evidence than religious. The religious merely confirms the physical evidence. It is the Muslims that claim their ties to the land is based on a false interpretation that Mohammad's soul flew to Jerusalem. All the Koran says is after Mohammad died, his soul to the mosque over there. Later clerics made up Arab imperialistic shit that over there means Jerusalem ha ha ha

Problem is Jews maintained a presence and the Muslims are recent invaders with no physical evidence of this mythical Arab Palestine.

Then where's all this physical evidence you are referring to?

 

[Roudy]

Roudy,

The problem with your source is that it is relying on religious writings as history. And this is a faulty premise to begin with. Pages below all reference Bible stories and figures as Historical.

The Indestructible Jews - Max I. Dimont - Google Books

Page 42


Page 45


Page 53



And, by the way, the source I referenced in my last post to prove the Mythology woven by the present day nation of Israel, is written by an Israeli Jewish Professor and Historian, who still lives there. Would you call him a Jew hating Jew? Just curious about that.

One Myth addressed by Shlomo Sand is the migration of the Jews from Egypt, led by Moses. If there had really been a group as large as was depicted in the Old Testament wandering around a desert for 40 years, there would be evidence uncovered of their presence in that desert, and no such evidence has ever been brought forward into the light. Truth is always brought into the Light, that is not true of Myths.

Sherri

What are you talking about now, idiot? There are millions of Jews that read and practice from the same Old Testament. They didn't "just come to be", they SURVIVED all these thousands of years, their culture, identity, and traditions INTACT. Read the book first and then speak. The book describes the physical and historical factual journey of the Jewish people. There are thousands upon thousands of artifacts and archeological sites in Israel With Hebrew inscription proving the existence of the Jewish people and the land of Israel. How many do Arabs have? NONE. The record of what happened to the Jews are also confirmed by the independent historical accounts of ancient Greece, Rome, and Persia.

All your squirming is meaningless drivel obtained from a hate site. There isn't a single correct fact in that article. If you read some of the other articles on that same garbage site it becomes quite clear what it is.

Roudy,

Let's see your archaelogical evidence or historical evidence that the Exodus occurred, please, as well as everything else in The Old Testament.

My faith as a Christian does not depend on anything in The Old Testament.

Sherri

The Diaspora is not the Exodus, you idiot. If you do not believe in the OT you cannot be a Christian, let alone a good or a bad one. Jesus was a Jew that preached Judaism and the teachings of the Old Testament, not Christianity.

 

[Roudy]

Actually Jewish ties to the land of Israel are more in physical evidence than religious. The religious merely confirms the physical evidence. It is the Muslims that claim their ties to the land is based on a false interpretation that Mohammad's soul flew to Jerusalem. All the Koran says is after Mohammad died, his soul to the mosque over there. Later clerics made up Arab imperialistic shit that over there means Jerusalem ha ha ha

Problem is Jews maintained a presence and the Muslims are recent invaders with no physical evidence of this mythical Arab Palestine.

Then where's all this physical evidence you are referring to?

hundreds of thousands of artifacts and archeological sites that exhist in Israel. Arabs have NONE. Yet these recent 19th and 20th century invadors claim ownership? All Arabs have done is invade and claim ownership by force, Israel is not exclusive of this.

 

[Roudy]

I find it interesting that Jew haters hide behind the guise of criticizing Israel and think nobody recognizes it. Anti Zionism = the new anti semetism.

Answer the question, *****-boy! Why would I hate jews?

Hey how would I know what is the cause of your mental illness and ignorance? Upbringing, environment, school, religious teachings, associations, etc.

 

[Billo_Really]

Hey how would I know...

That's right! You don't know. So, everything you say that follows, is just a guess on your part.

...what is the cause of your mental illness and ignorance? Upbringing, environment, school, religious teachings, associations, etc.

But you're free to believe whatever you want about me, you have my permission.

 

[NeoTemplar]

What are you talking about now, idiot? There are millions of Jews that read and practice from the same Old Testament. They didn't "just come to be", they SURVIVED all these thousands of years, their culture, identity, and traditions INTACT. Read the book first and then speak. The book describes the physical and historical factual journey of the Jewish people. There are thousands upon thousands of artifacts and archeological sites in Israel With Hebrew inscription proving the existence of the Jewish people and the land of Israel. How many do Arabs have? NONE. The record of what happened to the Jews are also confirmed by the independent historical accounts of ancient Greece, Rome, and Persia.

All your squirming is meaningless drivel obtained from a hate site. There isn't a single correct fact in that article. If you read some of the other articles on that same garbage site it becomes quite clear what it is.

Roudy,

Let's see your archaelogical evidence or historical evidence that the Exodus occurred, please, as well as everything else in The Old Testament.

My faith as a Christian does not depend on anything in The Old Testament.

Sherri

The Diaspora is not the Exodus, you idiot. If you do not believe in the OT you cannot be a Christian, let alone a good or a bad one. Jesus was a Jew that preached Judaism and the teachings of the Old Testament, not Christianity.

Thats not quite right Roudy, Jesus upheld most of the old testament laws but he also abolished some laws and created new laws, examples of abolished laws are polygamy, divorce, stoning etc

Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill.

in other words he came not to destroy the prophets but to fulfill prophecy make right what was made wrong by man and forgive men of their sins by renewing their relationship with God through a new covenant.

 

[Roudy]

Roudy,

Let's see your archaelogical evidence or historical evidence that the Exodus occurred, please, as well as everything else in The Old Testament.

My faith as a Christian does not depend on anything in The Old Testament.

Sherri

The Diaspora is not the Exodus, you idiot. If you do not believe in the OT you cannot be a Christian, let alone a good or a bad one. Jesus was a Jew that preached Judaism and the teachings of the Old Testament, not Christianity.

Thats not quite right Roudy, Jesus upheld most of the old testament laws but he also abolished some laws and created new laws, examples of abolished laws are polygamy, divorce, stoning etc

Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill.

in other words he came not to destroy the prophets but to fulfill prophecy make right what was made wrong by man and forgive men of their sins by renewing their relationship with God through a new covenant.

You have the quote right but added your own interpretation. As you corrected quoted, He said he came not to change one word or law in the OT. In fact he never "came" to create another faith, he merely taught what he believed was HIS interpretation of the OT. Christianity was created 300 years after the death or crucifixion of Jesus. The whole ritual of forgiveness and cleansing of sins occurs every Day of Atonement also known as Yom Kippur, so it's nothing new either.

 

[docmauser1]

Everything, naturally. Schama's review of the Sand's drivel appeared in the Financial Times, but certain cool excerpts can be found in other sources, of course. And, oh, Schloma is a marxist-communist too!

Funny how you can't state what's wrong about what he [Sand] said. The best you can do is refer to the writings of someone else and you can't even state what they said! This shows you're just winging it and don't have a clue as to what you're talking about.

Excuses, excuses, always excuses. Anything to avoid looking for and read uncomfortable material, of course.